War Don’t believe those who say ending Roe v Wade will leave society largely intact - The Guardian reeeeally needs a Xanax prescription (and so does Android Raptor)

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Now that the dust has begun to settle after the inital explosive news that the US supreme court is poised to overrule the right to abortion and that Justice Samuel Alito’s draft opinion in Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization represents what a majority of the court initially voted to do, among the most revealing ways to understand the devastation the court appears ready to wreak on America’s long march toward “liberty and justice for all” is to examine the kinds of arguments being made in the opinion’s defense.

The argument that such a ruling would simply return a divisive issue to the people had long since been widely dismantled. It certainly wouldn’t be returned to the people most profoundly affected once women were told they may have to remain pregnant despite whatever urgent reasons they might have for seeking a safe and legal abortion. It couldn’t be described as returning the abortion issue to the states, now that the possibility of a nationwide ban that the supreme court might uphold is on the horizon. And to the extent the issue is returned to the states, it would be returned to state legislatures so gerrymandered that they often represent the views of a distinct minority of the people anyway.

The argument that “only” abortion is involved because Alito’s draft assures readers that the supreme court’s opinion won’t be treated as precedent for anything that doesn’t involve killing an unborn human is both profoundly insulting and manifestly misleading. It insults every sentient person by minimizing the significance of commandeering the bodies and lives of half the population – and re-inserting government power into every family. And it misleads every reader of Alito’s words by suggesting that a court has the power to shape how future lawmakers and judges will build on its decisions and the reasoning underlying them. Alito’s hollow promise brings to mind similar assurances in notorious cases like Bush v Gore, is inconsistent with how the judicial process works, and wouldn’t offer any solace to anyone who might become pregnant or whose miscarriage might be treated as a crime scene for police to investigate.

The foolishness of the argument that there’s nothing to see here other than the future of abortion law is underscored by some of what is said in its support. We’re told not to worry about the future of decisions like Loving v Virginia, ensuring the right to marry someone of a different race than your own because, after all, Justice Clarence Thomas is in an interracial marriage. We’re told not to worry about the right to same-sex marriage because, after all, Justice Brett Kavanaugh would never vote to overturn Obergefell v Hodges, the most iconic opinion written by his proud mentor, Anthony Kennedy – the man who left the court only after he had hand-picked Kavanaugh as his successor. We’re told not to worry about contraception (despite the way quite a few people view Plan B or IUDs as forms of abortion) because even supreme court nominees like Amy Coney Barrett, who were cagey about just how “settled” a precedent they deemed Roe v Wade, said they couldn’t imagine anybody today challenging Griswold v Connecticut. All that prognostication is cold comfort to the millions of people whose lives are profoundly affected by these shaky predictions.

The most substantial argument is one that is equally fallacious but more sophisticated and in some ways more devious and dangerous: it is the argument that supreme court reversals of precedent, like the reversal of Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board of Education, are often to be welcomed as needed course corrections, and that this “course correction” wouldn’t be the first time the supreme court has rolled back decades-old constitutional rights. The many commentators who persisted in describing Alito’s draft in those terms – as an unprecedented retreat in the arc of ever-expanding rights – have recently been denounced as either inexcusably ignorant or deliberately duplicitous by distinguished scholars like Yale’s Akhil Amar, who says that every first-year law student learns that the very same thing happened during FDR’s second term as president, when the supreme court in 1937 in West Coast Hotel v Parrish overturned a long line of decisions that had blocked minimum wage and maximum hours and other worker-protection laws in the name of employers’ rights of “private property” and the “liberty of contract”. To be sure, Amar’s argument echoes that of the Alito draft, which cites Parrish and says, in effect, “nothing to see here, we did the same thing before” when we rolled back the liberty of contract line of decisions in 1937.

Justice Alito and Professor Amar are simply wrong: profoundly so. That so-called (and quite misleadingly labeled) “switch in time that saved the nine” was nothing like the switch that Dobbs would represent. The 1937 “switch” was no sudden politically driven turnabout but was in fact the culmination of long-simmering movements in legal and economic thought – movements that were reflected both in scholarship and in judicial opinions from the earliest days of the 20th century in places like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’ dissent in Lochner v New York insisting that “the 14th amendment does not enact Mr Herbert Spencer’s social statics,” movements that represented the growing conviction that the “freedom” to work at low wages and in miserable conditions was an illusion lacking both moral and legal foundations and one that simply helped perpetuate economic inequality and the exploitation of relatively powerless, not-yet-unionized workers by wealthy and powerful corporations.

Indeed, it is noteworthy that West Coast Hotel v Parrishthe 29 March 1937 decision that is usually marked as the pivot point in the great constitutional upheaval – was handed down by precisely the same set of nine justices as the nine who had rendered a decision pointing in the opposite direction less than a year earlier, on 1 June 1936, in Morehead v New York ex rel Tipaldo. One justice of the nine, a moderate Republican named Owen J Roberts, who had been rethinking his position on the underlying legal theories, had foreshadowed his shifting views by writing a landmark opinion upholding milk price regulation, Nebbia v New York, by a 5-4 vote in 1934 – less than two months after the court had upheld a state mortgage moratorium law by a 5-4 vote in Home Building & Loan Ass’n v Blaisdell, a decision clearly foreshadowing the 1937 repudiation of Lochner’s legacy by reconceiving the meaning of the constitution’s clause forbidding all state impairments of the obligation of contracts.

That history is important to keep in mind if one is to understand the depth of the error made by those who seek to compare the 2022 tsunami that Dobbs would represent with the gradual shift in current represented by the 1937 movement away from liberty of contract to protection of workers and consumers. The head-spinning and altogether untimely switch in the supreme court’s abortion jurisprudence that Dobbs would represent – if the decision the court announces late this June or early July is in substance what the leaked Alito draft indicated it would be – will reflect not the steady maturation of a long-developing jurisprudential movement but the crude payoff to a partisan political program to take over the federal judiciary, one beginning with Ronald Reagan’s presidency and the rise of the Federalist Society, and advancing with supreme court appointments made by Republican presidents all of whom lost the popular vote (George W Bush, appointing Justice Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts; Donald J Trump, appointing Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett), and made in circumstances of dubious legitimacy.

Professor Amar treats as laughably naïve the observation by ACLU national legal director and Georgetown law professor David Cole that, although “Parrish took away some rights of business owners … its real effect was to expand rights protections for millions of Americans subject to exploitation by powerful corporations.” Amar’s rebuttal? He says, and I’m serious here, that it’d be equally legitimate to say that “Dobbs’ real effect would be to expand rights protection for millions of innocent, unborn Americans … unborn humans, subject to extermination by society.”
It’s hard to know where to begin in unraveling that alleged parallel. Suffice it to note that the status as rights-bearing persons of embryos and fetuses remains a matter of profound sectarian controversy in America and throughout the world while no such controversy attends the status as rights-bearing persons of the array of workers whose rights, at least under laws designed to limit economic exploitation if not directly under the constitution itself, were indisputably expanded by virtue of the Parrish decision and the overturning of the Lochner line of cases.

Perhaps no less important is the indisputable fact that, although there remain a few commentators who continue to think that Lochner was rightly decided and Parrish was wrong, there is a nearly universal consensus, certainly covering the ideological spectrum on the current supreme court, that the “rights” protected by Lochner and the other decisions that Parrish tossed into the dustbin of history were not constitutionally sacrosanct, and that inequalities of bargaining power prevented the common-law baseline that Lochner treated as immune to legislative modification from having any special constitutional status. At the same time, the notions of personal autonomy and bodily integrity that provide the constitutional foundation for the substantive “liberty” at stake in cases like Roe and Casey are almost universally accepted as real, although deep disagreements remain about whether, to what degree, and from what point in fetal development the protection of the unborn fetus can properly trump that liberty.

The upshot is that the radical change in law and society that Dobbs would represent truly has no parallel in the history of the supreme court or in the history of the United States. As David Cole writes, the “proper analogy is not Brown overruling Plessy, but a decision reviving Plessy, reversing Brown, and relegating Black people to enforced segregation after nearly 70 years of equal protection.” For, as Jamelle Bouie rightly observed, “equal standing is undermined and eroded when the state can effectively seize your person for its own ends – that is, when it can force you to give birth.” Whether or not one compares that compulsion and forced labor to literal enslavement, as I did in my 1973 article on Roe v Wade, attempts to minimize the huge retrogression this would represent must be dismissed as little more than shameful efforts to camouflage the carnage the supreme court of the United States is about to unleash both on its own legitimacy and, even more important, on the people in whose name it wields the power of judicial review.
  • Laurence H Tribe is the Carl M Loeb University Professor of Constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard University, the author of numerous books and articles, a distinguished supreme court advocate, and holder of 11 honorary degrees

Literally half this article has nothing to do with Dobbs or Roe.

"If the law's on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither are on your side, throw an autistic shitfit".
 
Some women just aren't meant to be mothers, though often times historical infanticide was more a survival instinct than anything else.

Thankfully there are civilized alternatives to murdering a newborn these days:


Say what you will about the adoption system and fostercare, I'd rather give someone a fighting chance than take away the option altogether.
 
Nigger no actual woman wants to vacuum a baby out. Nor do they want to take a pill to yeet an embryo. Anyone that talks about getting abortions for funsies is either lying or a troon with a fetish, or both.

Oh sweet naive raptor. I used to believe that but that's not the case at all. Maybe back when abortion was considered a shameful act but these days? Ha. Is a badge of honor to say you've had one now.
Women and girls get abortions because as unpleasant as they might be, it's still better than ripping your taint open giving birth to a kid you can't afford (or dying in the process of that).

1)kids are not an expensive as you think and not near as many deaths happen as the pro-abortion aside wants you to believe for their narrative. Its a rare thing usually when the mother is in extremely poor health.

2) take the drugs they give you. Sucks but part of the process, else get the caesarean. It's like trying to stop puberty because you don't want to go through the akward side. This type of body horror mindset to have about yourself is unnatural

My bike got stolen from the garage by some kids when I was 13 because I forgot to close the door. My mom yelled at me for it and that was the end of that.
That's bullshit from your mother to be blamed when you're the victim. I had my bikes stolen as well. I know your pain :(
 
Thankfully there are civilized alternatives to murdering a newborn these days:


Say what you will about the adoption system and fostercare, I'd rather give someone a fighting chance than take away the option altogether.
And that still requires potentially ripping your taint open and all the other fun hazards of pregnancy/giving birth (including death). Plus with foster care you're more than likely to get a "assholes only in it for the check and easy access to abusable kids" hand than anything decent. Yeeting an embryo before it develops the capacity to suffer will always be more humane than growing in into a kid destined for abuse.
That's bullshit from your mother to be blamed when you're the victim. I had my bikes stolen as well. I know your pain :(
My mother is a woman that should've aborted every pregnancy, since she's not someone who has the capacity to properly care for children.

Pedos and narcissists are two categories where I almost think forced abortion is acceptable, because the alternative is bringing a kid into a situation where horrific abuse is more or less guaranteed.
 
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Roe vs. Wade conjures this whacky "right to privacy" as a right the 14th amendment protects, and banning abortions would somehow infringe on that right. It's complete moon logic
Here is my theory about why this is happening.
The right to medical privacy needs to go, or else the full surveillance medical tyranny thing they tried with covid won’t work. So RvW will go. And with it that precedent on medical privacy, vereeery quietly. There will be uproar, riots and what have you and the the court will declare oopsie yeah and make abortion very firmly legal with another case. While the privacy thing is still gone.
Result; pesky medical privacy stuff weakens, abortion remains legal.
 
@Android raptor
im-mad-i-dont-want-a-solution-heres-a-solution-4823398.jpg
Dawg you keep putting out these excuses that just make you sound lazy and irresponsible, then when someone offers solutions for your hypotheticals you just keep passing the buck to whatever inconvenience you can blame it on. Relative of mine used to walk miles while pregnant to pay the gas bill, if you can't do that to save your life from a potentially life threatening situation then that's on you
 
Here is my theory about why this is happening.
The right to medical privacy needs to go, or else the full surveillance medical tyranny thing they tried with covid won’t work. So RvW will go. And with it that precedent on medical privacy, vereeery quietly. There will be uproar, riots and what have you and the the court will declare oopsie yeah and make abortion very firmly legal with another case. While the privacy thing is still gone.
Result; pesky medical privacy stuff weakens, abortion remains legal.
I knew they really, REALLY wanted things like HIPAA to fucking die (especially the insurance lobby, holy fuck they'd cream themselves over being allowed to nail people for pre-existing conditions again and selling medical information practically in the open). Our fault for sleeping on it and taking that shit for granted, I guess.
 
@Android raptor
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Dawg you keep putting out these excuses that just make you sound lazy and irresponsible, then when someone offers solutions for your hypotheticals you just keep passing the buck to whatever inconvenience you can blame it on. Relative of mine used to walk miles while pregnant to pay the gas bill, if you can't do that to save your life from a potentially life threatening situation then that's on you
Or, get this, a secular nation should make sure basic medical procedures and medication are available to everyone in all states, regardless of how much aborting embryos supposedly hurts Jesus' feefees or w/e
 
Or, get this, a secular nation should make sure basic medical procedures and medication are available to everyone in all states, regardless of how much aborting embryos supposedly hurts Jesus' feefees or w/e
"Someone should do this!"

I mean, y'all fuckin' vote, right women? You even outnumber us stinky stupid men by now as a voting demographic. Put on your big girl britches and get to it. Thought you could do anything we do, but better and in heels.
 
"Someone should do this!"

I mean, y'all fuckin' vote, right women? You even outnumber us stinky stupid men by now as a voting demographic. Put on your big girl britches and get to it. Thought you could do anything we do, but better and in heels.
I did but unfortunately the south gerrymandered to all hell and fundies still have way too much power here, as much as tradcels refuse to believe it.
Do you even post in threads not about abortion or feminism? I'm a political sperg, too, but I at least have fucking hobbies.
Homie I'm not constantly pimping Tard Baby General and the Sammieverse threads here just because I think they should be mandatory reading for prolifers. Leave the Autism Thunderdome and peek in BP, you might see me more.
 
Friendly reminder the guy who wrote this Laurence H Tribe is mostly known for peddling insane conspiracy theories on Twatter and was even called out by other left wing outlets for retweeting Palmer report nonsense.

This guy probably needs his own thread.
laurence tribe2.jpg laurence tribe.jpg
It's scary to think that this is
  • a Harvard Law School Professor,
  • who has argued many cases before the Supreme Court (and thus helped shape the current American legal landscape),
  • was once considered a possible SCOTUS nominee himself,
  • is considered "one of the most venerated legal scholars in the country",
  • is deeply connected in the Washington political complex (e.g. he mentored Obama, and coached Dem senators during SCOTUS hearings),
  • and the media still keeps coming to him for interviews / opinion columns when anything SCOTUS-related happens.
He was always an unapologetic activist for the Democratic Party and the political left, but for most of his life he nonetheless managed to act sort of respectable and sane, to go along with his "venerated legal scholar" image.
Until Trump.

Trump Derangement Syndrome really broke this dude - he started REEEEEing that Orange Man must be impeached before the guy even took office, had hysterical Twitter meltdowns over every little thing Trump did, came up with ever more bizarre reasons to impeach Trump, became a Palmer Report fan and spread baseless anti-Trump conspiracy theories, and even now continues to seethe about the necessity of charging and convicting Trump of something, anything.

What's left of Laurence Tribe now is a loon who calls for the feds to try to overturn Kyle Rittenhouse's acquittal, and, well, writes articles like the one in the top post.
 
I did but unfortunately the south gerrymandered to all hell and fundies still have way too much power here, as much as tradcels refuse to believe it.

Homie I'm not constantly pimping Tard Baby General and the Sammieverse threads here just because I think they should be mandatory reading for prolifers. Leave the Autism Thunderdome and peek in BP, you might see me more.
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to BP?
 
I did but unfortunately the south gerrymandered to all hell and fundies still have way too much power here, as much as tradcels refuse to believe it.
Uh oh, that's not very "can do" of you.

Quit fucking pissing and moaning about the presence of obstacles and start figuring out ways through or around like everybody fucking else has had to do in the past.
 
Or, get this, a secular nation should make sure basic medical procedures and medication are available to everyone in all states, regardless of how much aborting embryos supposedly hurts Jesus' feefees or w/e
Like I said above, I don’t think this is being driven by any moral distaste of abortion. I think it’s being done to weaken rights to medical privacy - there is SO much money and power at stake over this. So much. As a bonus, it creates yet more division in society and all of those can be leveraged.
Let me tell you a little story. In Edinburgh, which is one of the most beautiful cities on earth, there was once a beautiful Georgian square, really stunning architecture. It’s not there anymore. Instead there’s a concrete mall that squats like a toad where it once was. The planning application was put in over Christmas and the two week window to object closed before anyone saw it, becasue everyone’s boozed up and off work. This RvW stuff smells the same. Cause a massive stink, huge political uproar, and then quietly nuke your right to medical privacy.
Then profit. And legalise abortion in a Stunning and Brave landmark case. This is what will happen.
 
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