Dragon Age: The Veilguard - A woke disaster? Yep!

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

To be totally fair she is an actual, literal child, her attitude is portrayed as immature (if understandable, given her upbringing), and your other party members (esp. my girl Vivienne) do not like her bitchy little ass, either.

(Fully expecting them to recast Vivienne's actress if she even appears in the new one, as the previous VOA was white and that's not allowed anymore.)

Indies Varma is half-Indian, which in their minds, is pretty much white.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

Indies Varma is half-Indian, which in their minds, is pretty much white.

Wait, Indira Varma voiced her? Love her. Had no idea she did VO. Get paid, bitch.

 

[Ser Prize]

I hate the really weak oppression narrative with the mages and the templars.

 

[Sneeds_Sniggerly]

I forgot this game was "in development" until I saw it in the thread list. Dragon Age bros, I'm so sorry. If it makes you feel any better, Fable and Elder Scrolls are going to be ruined too. I'm sure CD Project Red will ruin Witcher soon enough. I do miss the RPGs we use to get.

I know faggots can't make good games, but with how long these games are in development hell it seems they can't even finish one. What the fuck do they do all day at work?

Hooray, more ancillary material you'll have to consoom if you want to understand what's going on in the game!

Can I just point out how much better a title "Absolution" is than "Dreadwolf"?

I think "Absolution" has been used to death as a subtitle. At least "Dreadwolf" is different and based on something from the game.

Dragon Age was never good, go back and play DA:1 it's like playing an edgy teengers first Baulder Gate Mod

How can one man be so based?

 

[Therapy Dog]

So I was thinking about this recently for whatever reason, and it occurred to me that Bioware really has no fucking leg to stand on when it suggests that people who think this game is going to be a 'woke disaster' are bigots for not wanting faggotry in the game (and all that that implies, but more on that in a bit).

I'll use my own experience as an example (skip this, or prepare for a sperg-out).

I dislike Inquisition because I think it's a really boring game with dull and lifeless environments, but I can concede that some bits of it are quite good, and I certainly wouldn't call that game 'woke'. Yes there are gay people in it, and even a trans person, but none of it is forced down your throat, or made a big deal of. In fact, unless you specifically pry, you wouldn't know that Cremisius (the trans man that serves with the Iron Bull) is a trans dude at all. You might have a vague idea based on the fact that they have Jennifer Hale voicing a character that looks vaguely like a man and is referred to as a man by everyone that knows him, but it's never specifically touched on until you choose to ask/pry. I found that the dialogue about him being trans is even well-written and after hearing his story, elicited some sympathy from me back in the day (this was before everyone and their dog decided to randomly troon out for no reason irl, so keep that in mind).

Then there's Dorian. Dorian is my favorite character in Inquisition. He's based as fuck. He doesn't give a shit about anything (have him in a party with notorious cunt Sera, and he will take a metaphorical shit on her when she tries to mess with him the way she does everyone else; hilarity ensues), he's hilarious, he's witty, he's clever (like you'd expect a fucking top-tier Tevinter-wizard-man to be)... and he happens to fuck dudes. Cool, I don't give a shit, it's none of my business who he fucks, both he and I know that... and apparently, so did Bioware, at least at the time. (Yes, I'm aware that there is a sort of psuedo-quest that deals with his sexuality, but it's very minor and makes absolute sense given his situation, and you can choose to respond however you like, you don't HAVE to be hugboxy about it, you can be a dick if you want, because you know, Role-Playing-Game).

Compare the above with the notorious trans person from Beamdog's expansion to Baldur's Gate who literally tells you they are trans upon first meeting you. You have (or had, since it was actually changed after the massive backlash) no choice but to listen to this utter berk tell you about their dumb-fuck gender issues despite existing in a world where changing your gender is as easy as popping down to your local wizard's. Hell, you probably still have the belt that literally changes your gender in your inventory, since that's one of the first items you get in the original game.

The point that I am making is that there's a massive fucking difference between having representation and faggotry in a game where it's incidental, as opposed to being the defining characteristic of those characters. If I were a gay dude, I'd be pretty miffed if a video game suggested that the only interesting thing about me is the fact that I'm gay (or sub in black/trans/whatever).

Anyway, I question the logic of how I could possibly be a fucking 'bigot' if I like Dorian as much as I do, if I felt sympathy after hearing Crem's story etc. Bioware has fallen so far that they don't or can't understand the difference outlined above, and have to fall back on declaring anyone that doesn't like the absolute shite they are defecating into the market as a bigot. Fuck off, mate.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

In fact, unless you specifically pry, you wouldn't know that Cremisius (the trans man that serves with the Iron Bull) is a trans dude at all.

Seriously? Krem is voiced by Jennifer Hale. I had sort of assumed they were supposed to be a butch lesbian upon first meeting. The game certainly doesn't shout it from the rooftops or anything but I didn't think they meant it to be some sort of surprise. (I agree with your general point that they way they handled it was good, and I think sane trans people felt the same way.)

 

[Mola Ram]

(I agree with your general point that they way they handled it was good, and I think sane trans people felt the same way.)

The only thing I disliked about Krem was the same thing everyone else who isn't a BioWare tumblr drone hated: the absurd retcon of Qunari lore that allowed Bull to accept him. I do like the theory some folks have that Bull, being a professional liar, was simply making up the whole Aqun-athlok stuff to make Krem feel better about himself, but I sincerely doubt that was the intent.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

The only thing I disliked about Krem was the same thing everyone else who isn't a BioWare tumblr drone hated: the absurd retcon of Qunari lore that allowed Bull to accept him. I do like the theory some folks have that Bull, being a professional liar, was simply making up the whole Aqun-athlok stuff to make Krem feel better about himself, but I sincerely doubt that was the intent.

I am absolutely certain the intent was to create a fantasy parallel to the concept that certain other cultures (esp. indigenous peoples of the Americas) have a third gender/two-spirit/some other role for trans people, and that they can exist without stigma. Of course that notion IRL is almost always a projection, misreading, or just straight up confabulation.

 

[capitalBBustard]

"DAI wasn't woke!!!!"

If anyone's wondering, the overton window shifted so far that a fag crying about his bigoted dad wanting to electroshock his gay away and a troon bragging about putting socks in her undies to fake having balls is no longer considered woke.

I am absolutely certain the intent was to create a fantasy parallel to the concept that certain other cultures (esp. indigenous peoples of the Americas) have a third gender/two-spirit/some other role for trans people,

Lmao copium, the intent was 21st century #transrights in medieval fantasy.

 

[Mola Ram]

Lmao copium, the intent was 21st century #transrights in medieval fantasy.

"I just knew I was really a boy. There was absolutely no abuse or molestation to make me think that, no sir. It's totes natural."

 

[HarryHowler]

Mark Darrah was still the man at the helm up until now. Same franchise, same captain. So how did the ship change so much, you think? Did this man really change so much over the years, or was his authority as captain as fickle as the wind and it just got worse over time?

Still, now with Dreadwolf, even he is finally gone too, so this vessel sails in an unrecognizable direction now. Dragon Age in lore only.
Also just did some quick googling and apparently Darrah quit in 2020, and his successor, a Christian Dailey, quit just now in Feb 2022, leaving no information as to who is Exec Producer now? It's kinda comical how much no one wants to work on this game.

Apparently it's Mac Walters. AKA the guy whose biggest achievement at Bioware has been managing not to fuck up Mass Effect Legendary Edition beyond censoring a couple of butt shots.

 

[BrokenWokenBespoken]

So I was thinking about this recently for whatever reason, and it occurred to me that Bioware really has no fucking leg to stand on when it suggests that people who think this game is going to be a 'woke disaster' are bigots for not wanting faggotry in the game (and all that that implies, but more on that in a bit).

I'll use my own experience as an example (skip this, or prepare for a sperg-out).

I dislike Inquisition because I think it's a really boring game with dull and lifeless environments, but I can concede that some bits of it are quite good, and I certainly wouldn't call that game 'woke'. Yes there are gay people in it, and even a trans person, but none of it is forced down your throat, or made a big deal of. In fact, unless you specifically pry, you wouldn't know that Cremisius (the trans man that serves with the Iron Bull) is a trans dude at all. You might have a vague idea based on the fact that they have Jennifer Hale voicing a character that looks vaguely like a man and is referred to as a man by everyone that knows him, but it's never specifically touched on until you choose to ask/pry. I found that the dialogue about him being trans is even well-written and after hearing his story, elicited some sympathy from me back in the day (this was before everyone and their dog decided to randomly troon out for no reason irl, so keep that in mind).

Then there's Dorian. Dorian is my favorite character in Inquisition. He's based as fuck. He doesn't give a shit about anything (have him in a party with notorious cunt Sera, and he will take a metaphorical shit on her when she tries to mess with him the way she does everyone else; hilarity ensues), he's hilarious, he's witty, he's clever (like you'd expect a fucking top-tier Tevinter-wizard-man to be)... and he happens to fuck dudes. Cool, I don't give a shit, it's none of my business who he fucks, both he and I know that... and apparently, so did Bioware, at least at the time. (Yes, I'm aware that there is a sort of psuedo-quest that deals with his sexuality, but it's very minor and makes absolute sense given his situation, and you can choose to respond however you like, you don't HAVE to be hugboxy about it, you can be a dick if you want, because you know, Role-Playing-Game).

Compare the above with the notorious trans person from Beamdog's expansion to Baldur's Gate who literally tells you they are trans upon first meeting you. You have (or had, since it was actually changed after the massive backlash) no choice but to listen to this utter berk tell you about their dumb-fuck gender issues despite existing in a world where changing your gender is as easy as popping down to your local wizard's. Hell, you probably still have the belt that literally changes your gender in your inventory, since that's one of the first items you get in the original game.

The point that I am making is that there's a massive fucking difference between having representation and faggotry in a game where it's incidental, as opposed to being the defining characteristic of those characters. If I were a gay dude, I'd be pretty miffed if a video game suggested that the only interesting thing about me is the fact that I'm gay (or sub in black/trans/whatever).

Anyway, I question the logic of how I could possibly be a fucking 'bigot' if I like Dorian as much as I do, if I felt sympathy after hearing Crem's story etc. Bioware has fallen so far that they don't or can't understand the difference outlined above, and have to fall back on declaring anyone that doesn't like the absolute shite they are defecating into the market as a bigot. Fuck off, mate.

Problem is Dreadwolf is going all in on the critical role audience since none of the old guard will support them. We are still a voice that can drag down the hype and DAD is their final stand to see if they will share the same fate as Troika and Frogware or Electronic Arts will allow their existence

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

Lmao copium, the intent was 21st century #transrights in medieval fantasy.

I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean or how it's a response to what I said.

 

[HarryHowler]

Problem is Dreadwolf is going all in on the critical role audience since none of the old guard will support them. We are still a voice that can drag down the hype and DAD is their final stand to see if they will share the same fate as Troika and Frogware or Electronic Arts will allow their existence

I think if EA was going to shut them down, they would have done it after Anthem. Bioware's (and DICE's) main saving grace right now is that EA have so few operational studios outside of the ones that produce sports games that they can't really afford to shut down any more.

 

[capitalBBustard]

I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean or how it's a response to what I said.

You said it was trying to imitate some native american bullshit, when it's clearly just a heckin wholesome tumblr troon insert with 0 thought put in beyond that.

 

[Übertroon]

The only thing I disliked about Krem was the same thing everyone else who isn't a BioWare tumblr drone hated: the absurd retcon of Qunari lore that allowed Bull to accept him. I do like the theory some folks have that Bull, being a professional liar, was simply making up the whole Aqun-athlok stuff to make Krem feel better about himself, but I sincerely doubt that was the intent.

The qunari retcon is the result of old qunari lore being bigoted.
Sten made it clear that in Qunari society women belong at home rearing children. Gays, troons, and other abnormals would not be accepted as they do not fit in, and do not contribute to the roles designated by the Qun. At best you xould have a gay qunari that still has a wife and children as that's what's expected from him.

But the qunari share similarities with muslim cultures, making them "brown-coded", therefore the good guys opposing the evil patriarchal Imperium.
The qunari are also heavily collectivist appealing to your average lefty wacko

 

[Mola Ram]

The qunari are also heavily collectivist appealing to your average lefty wacko

With the addition of horns and the implication they're part dragon, they also became furry-adjacent, inviting a whole slew of sick fetishists to drool over them.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

You said it was trying to imitate some native american bullshit, when it's clearly just a heckin wholesome tumblr troon insert with 0 thought put in beyond that.

I unfortunately can't read your mind and discern the reason you think there's a difference between what I said inspired it, and "a heckin wholesome tumblr troon insert with 0 thought," so just go about your merry way I guess.

The sense I got from Dorian was less that Tevinter is especially homophobic (though I won't be surprised if it's portrayed that way in Dreadwolf) and more that he simply refused to marry a woman to further his bloodline or even for appearance's sake. The problem with that is that it means Dorian, a character we're supposed to take as pretty heroic, thinks it's more important everyone knows he prefers to get his squeakhole snaked than it is to give anything up for the obligations of his patrician family. Not really a hero, but a selfish, decadent pervert.

Unintentionally based BioWare?

Dorian's father literally was going to do magical conversation-therapy on him:

I don't know if I can forgive him. Out of desperation, I wouldn't put on a show, marry the girl, keep everyone unsavory private and locked away. Selfish, I suppose, not wanting to spend my entire life screaming on the inside. He was going to do a blood ritual. Alter my mind, make me...acceptable. I found out. I left.

That said, Dorian is the only "good guy" I can think of in any recent work of fiction who puts forth a pretty spirited defense of slavery, so...based BioWare?

 

[BrokenWokenBespoken]

His opinion of slavery is more along the lines of "Inequality is everywhere inquisitor, but you can't treat abuse of power as the norm as much as idealistic views on the system." Even Fenris sister felt the freedom given by his actions left them destitute and without the means of rising above their station after they got their freedom

Rather than a glowing appreciation of slavery and how good it feels to have a steady supply of boy toys waiting to be poked like a priest at a boys choir.

 

[Zaryiu2]

Not having played Inquisition, how much of the Quanari retcon stuff is not said by Iron Bull or his followers?