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- Oct 7, 2015
Also, isn't there a possible issue of soil, air and/or water contamination of the area from the person who has the mineral rights?
Home Buying / Housing Market Griefing Thread - You're going to rent until you die.
- Thread starter NoReturn
- Start date
Oxous
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2021
I wonder how many loans these guys took out + how much leverage they have...
DDBCAE CBAADCBE
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2019
Lol, I bought my own home at 25. Get rekt poor people.
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- Aug 4, 2021
They seem so sure of themselves, thinking "there's no way people won't rent/stop paying rent" almost like banks thought "there's no way people will stop paying for their home."
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- Aug 29, 2018
Also don't buy a place right next to any sort of business.
Commercial wells will drain your water table so fast it won't even be funny.
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- Aug 21, 2019
Usually you can take them to civil court and force them to drill you a new well. My inlaws 8' dug well drained out after a construction company was blasting in the area and they got a brand new drilled well out of it. Same thing if the town contaminates your dug well with road salt.
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- May 23, 2020
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- Jul 18, 2017
They are worse then fucked if they are in a Blue State. If the economy takes a dump expect another round of eviction moratoriums.
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- Feb 18, 2019
By the way how is that in the USA.
Here banks in theory could ask a homeowner for additional securities or paying of a certain amount of their mortgage in case that the houses value is falling down enough and the withstanding debt is bigger than the value of the house. But it is rarely done as long as people keep on paying the mortgage down.
Is that similar in the United States or is that a bit "harsher"?
Here banks in theory could ask a homeowner for additional securities or paying of a certain amount of their mortgage in case that the houses value is falling down enough and the withstanding debt is bigger than the value of the house. But it is rarely done as long as people keep on paying the mortgage down.
Is that similar in the United States or is that a bit "harsher"?
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2017
Depends on the structure of the loan I think. In general, mortgage loans in the USA are fixed for the duration of the loans life. All payments are scheduled out. There could be landmines hidden in the fine print for if a debtor can no longer pay or starts missing payments that could allow term modifications. But if the homeowner sticks religiously to the payment plan there is not alot a lender can do to alter the deal.
In many cases home values crashing for a few years can be a good thing for a primary residence mortgage. Almost all lenders require property taxes to be paid in advance to the lender who holds the money in escrow for purposes of paying the tax. If property values drop precipitously then property taxes also drop. Meaning the amount of month to month payment to service the loan also goes down. If it drops enough the lender may even release some of the escrow cash back to homeowner.
From what I understand this policy of caveat emptor when it comes to home loans is pretty unique to the USA
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- Joined
- Oct 31, 2019
The economy isn't fucking crashing faggots.
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- Jul 18, 2017
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- Oct 31, 2019
I sold all my US stocks and I am just sitting on ETFs and index funds.
But you will find it amazing to see there will be no recession. Just stagflation.
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- Nov 2, 2020
Anyone who argues for renting doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Sure, you don’t pay $500 for repairs, but you’re also giving someone money to stay in their house. You’re missing out on the appreciation of property by giving all your money to someone who’s going to charge you more as the property increases in value. There are instances in Florida where peoples’ rents are being raised by 30%+. When you budget for rent, a lot of people don’t take into consideration they could be paying an extra $700 a month one year to the next.
If you had a mortgage on that same property with an adjusted rate, you’d only be building equity on the value of your home, even if you have to dip a little more into your salary to pay the mortgage and tighten the belt.
Sure, you don’t pay $500 for repairs, but you’re also giving someone money to stay in their house. You’re missing out on the appreciation of property by giving all your money to someone who’s going to charge you more as the property increases in value. There are instances in Florida where peoples’ rents are being raised by 30%+. When you budget for rent, a lot of people don’t take into consideration they could be paying an extra $700 a month one year to the next.
If you had a mortgage on that same property with an adjusted rate, you’d only be building equity on the value of your home, even if you have to dip a little more into your salary to pay the mortgage and tighten the belt.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2019
Again. It is not that easy and assumes the renter is just burning the money which the home owner would put into the downpayment and paying back the mortgage and the repairs. If the money would be put into the stock market over a broad index fund or a retirement scheme. Things look different.
Renting does have a few financial benefits:
1. No house price risk
Prices can fluctuate. This is not only a chance but also a risk. There are many examples of housing markets that did crash. It wouldn't be such an issue if a house would not be one of the biggest financial decision the average person does. It is putting a lot of your eggs into one basket. If you have irregular employment or income for example. A house might not be suitable for you.
The renter does not have this. He doesn't have the chance of rising house price either but he can put the money into other assets to take on a more diversified risk taking.
2. No transaction costs
You usually pay taxes, regulations and or fees for home purchases. Depending on where you buy and so on. Renting has no transaction costs, either when you move in or out
3. Mobility
Buying a house is a big commitment and the housing needs for most people change over time. Owning a home limits your flexibility to travel, change jobs, or move to other cities or countries. It ties you to the city or town where you’ve bought. It's also hard to adapt to changes. The best example is the typical family that builds a home has two children and then the children move out. Now they house is relatively big compared to what the two actually need.
When you rent, you’re mobile. When you buy, you’re tied down.
4. Simpler budgeting
If you rent you have one payment and the utilities with variations. That's it. If the roof leaks or the foundation breaks, a simple call to the landlord is all the renter has to do. When you own, these costs are on you. A roof can easily costs 10 grand. You have to build reserves for that.
These costs also do always occur to the worst time as well. When some other major expenses arrive.
5. Lower Costs
Just compare the monthly rate versus the monthly mortgage rate with little or no downpayment in any given market. By far the rent is cheaper and this excludes maintenance. And yes the renter can invest those savings.
6. No investment creep
A good investment has no personal bias, no emotion and is purely based on the investments prospect of generating returns. Housing doesn't meet that for the vast majority of people since you take pride in your house. Most people start looking at houses with a certain budget in mind. They look at a few houses and then that budget begins to grow. For money you get more things and it's okay to spend more since it's an investment. Here the investment creep turns in.
Just an anecdote but the boring 6.95 door handle was always bought by the craftsman in commercial construction (with additional discount), the fancy 39.95 door handle went to the people that were privately building.
7. Better locations (Less financial but worth mentioning)
Partly because renting is cheaper, you can afford to live in a better location when you rent. Better location usually means better access to transit be it buses, highways, subways, trains, bike paths. Access to more stores, restaurants and recreation and so on.
Less time spent on commuting and shopping means more time with family and friends, relaxing or doing whatever you like to do with your free time.
The one big advantage that house owners have is that they are enslaving themselves to a forced savings program. The rent increase is also worth keeping in mind. But here it's relatively unheard that the rents increase that much since the market is probably more regulated than the USA.
Another thing it. Everyone pays rent. Even people that own there houses. If you have 500 k worth of housing you could look at other income generating investments. Like stocks. If you would get an dividend rate of 3 % you would get 15.000 a year in income or 1.250 a month.
It is a bit more complicated as you might see and just going with the bitch basic "Anyone who isn't buying is a utter retard" angle is not practicable in the real world. People differ. They have different jobs, living situations and most of all: Different needs. People that have to move frequently are a good example though the transaction costs that they would occur. But enough of my blogpost.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
If you bought in most North American cities before the pandemic, your mortgage cost is absolutely lower than the average rent.
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2018
I see the renter cope thread is still going hard.
Rent cheaper than a mortgage? lol no. Maybe if you cherrypick a specific location or compare a house to renting some shit single room apartment. Bugmen, I tell ya.
*Edit* Here's a good example. My friend lived in a ghetto part of Ypsilanti, MI. This apartment complex was shit. So shit that they had to change the name after someone got shot and killed there so people would still look. You can tell just how ghetto a place is based on the proportion of how shit it looks vs the number of relatively new and shiny cars you see.
I just looked on their site. They want $900 for a shitty 650 sqft 2bd/1br. Again, this is in literal nigger ghettoville. You want a 'rennovated' one? Almost $1000. These apartments were built to the absolute minimum spec, and the time he had to wait to get anything fixed was unreal.
So a few years back or so, me and my wife rented in a trailer park near Ann Arbor. Quite a few U of M employees wind up there, so the clientele is better than niggerville. We were paying $1100/mo for a new 1040 sqft. Today they want $1500. That's DOUBLE our current mortgage, and I know bugmen like to say "oh but repairs!" because the thought of picking up a ratchet makes their wrist ache. But you know what? Even paying all that money it still took 2 goddamn weeks to get them to look at the damn gas range that wasn't working.
That's what you get with renting. Sure you're not paying for repairs (that you didn't cause), but you're on THEIR time. That's fine for bugmen because it's not like they were going to fix anything anyways.
Rent cheaper than a mortgage? lol no. Maybe if you cherrypick a specific location or compare a house to renting some shit single room apartment. Bugmen, I tell ya.
*Edit* Here's a good example. My friend lived in a ghetto part of Ypsilanti, MI. This apartment complex was shit. So shit that they had to change the name after someone got shot and killed there so people would still look. You can tell just how ghetto a place is based on the proportion of how shit it looks vs the number of relatively new and shiny cars you see.
I just looked on their site. They want $900 for a shitty 650 sqft 2bd/1br. Again, this is in literal nigger ghettoville. You want a 'rennovated' one? Almost $1000. These apartments were built to the absolute minimum spec, and the time he had to wait to get anything fixed was unreal.
So a few years back or so, me and my wife rented in a trailer park near Ann Arbor. Quite a few U of M employees wind up there, so the clientele is better than niggerville. We were paying $1100/mo for a new 1040 sqft. Today they want $1500. That's DOUBLE our current mortgage, and I know bugmen like to say "oh but repairs!" because the thought of picking up a ratchet makes their wrist ache. But you know what? Even paying all that money it still took 2 goddamn weeks to get them to look at the damn gas range that wasn't working.
That's what you get with renting. Sure you're not paying for repairs (that you didn't cause), but you're on THEIR time. That's fine for bugmen because it's not like they were going to fix anything anyways.
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- Joined
- Feb 18, 2019
Maybe I formulated myself very badly. But usually the renter and buyer have a certain costs they both pay. For the buyer it's multiple costs and for the renter it is calculated into the rent. The difference is the down payment and the principal on the credit. Those usually put the buyer ahead of the renter when it comes to cost and that's why the renter usually has more cashflow which he can then use for other investments.
Buying and renting is going to be the biggest financial decision for most people. There will always be cope, from both sides. The thread is just so overwhemingly pro buying that I just post the different point of view.
I just want people to think about that decision. Do the numbers. The Bank of Cleveland has a good calculation. I linked it before and I will link it again:
Buy a Home or Rent: A Better Way to Choose
Knowing whether buying a home is a better financial move for a family than renting requires a consideration of costs and options that people often neglect to factor in.
www.clevelandfed.org
See for yourself if it makes sense and play with the numbers. If you can do your own repairs, you can reduce the maintenance cost. If you think the area you will buy in is in high demand you can increase the increase in value of the home. Maybe the stock market as an alternative investment will have a few bad decades. Do the calculations, do some different scenarios and then decide what makes more sense.
I have no ill-will towards house buyers/owners/builders. I have shares of companies that produce construction materials, insurance companies, banks and so on. Companies that do well if the housing market is doing well.
The Boglehead forum has also a good thread on the topic
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2021
Which can be true in some cases. Both decisions though lean heavily on a lot of assumptions about the future and no one really knows that. I think you can do both - own a home and invest. I mean, it makes more sense for me to invest the money elsewhere because my mortgage is so low and the interest rate so low it makes it retarded to try to pay off the mortgage early. I did spend a bit of time putting it in the stonk market using St. Bogle's method. Right now, I am investing in my house with several large outdoor projects and stonk market is on the backburner, though I know things are on sale, I get it, I get it.
My mortgage is quite low. It would cost three times as much to rent the same thing I own right now. However, there are a few things out of my control like property taxes, insurance, to some extent, repair costs. This is still all less than the monthly cost to rent the same property.
When I bought this place, I am telling you, it felt like getting financially raped and this was several years ago. Now the house is worth twice what was paid and the equity is around 65%. It sure did feel like an awful decision at the time (the house was sort of panic bought, the best way to buy anything, duh), but now um, guess it worked out because rents also exploded and I have no idea how that could be afforded now, even if I was looking at a 1bd apartment or something.
Edit: I bought a foreclosure and it was a mess. Took all of my income (dual income household) for well over 18 months to pay for the renovations (some we did completely ourselves nights and weekends). Elizabeth Warren is a fag for the most part, but I did take her Coming Collapse of the Middle Class lecture extremely seriously and all throughout my marriage, we only lived on one income (saved all of mine up to the point of purchase so we could do 20% down) and paid for everything in cash besides the house.
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- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
If you bought a house in most of North American prior to 2020 your mortgage payments, maintenance and property taxes combined are less than average rent in most North American cities in 2022.
I live on the outskirts of a very small city. I paid under $200k for a three-bedroom bungalow with two extra bedrooms downstairs in 2016. I have two kids. If I were to rent, I would need a three-bedroom house or apartment. There are no three bedrooms available in my area for under $1,600. That works out to around $19,200 a year. My mortgage payments are around $850 a month, I pay around $2,400 a year in property tax. That totals $12,600 a year. I probably sink between 3-5K each year into things like general repairs and improvements. Even if I had to spent $7,000 a year on maintenance, I'd break even. My taxes can go up a bit, and I may have to occasionally shell out for a new roof or whatever, but the rent on those three bedrooms units is not going to be $1,600 forever either.
The fact that I could put the downpayment into other investments six years ago when I bought the place is not really relevant. Unless I was going to double my investment over that same period, it does not make up for the difference between the cost to rent today and the cost to pay down and maintain the house.
Then after 15-25-years you're going to own a house. You're going own an asset you can sell or leave to your kids, you could rent out a room of if you need money. The renter needs to continue to pay rent after those 25-years. Even if housing totally tanks, you can always live in your house because it has intrinsic value as a thing you can live in. If the stock market tanks and your ETFs decrease in value, you cannot eat them or live in them. They have no intrinsic value. They are abstract and do not physically exist.
I understand what you're trying to say, but it is incorrect and flies in the face of 100+-years of data. In every housing crash that has happened for the last century in the western world, housing has recovered long-term. Shelter is a basic need, so there is an automatic floor for how far rent and house prices can drop. Rent always always goes up long term. It is not possible for it to collapse without a precipitous population decline. Likewise, housing is not going to collapse and not recover unless society collapses and does not recover and at that point the money does not mean anything anyway.
The narrative you're spouting has been fed to you by billionaires, corporations and government entities who are trying to turn you into a neo-surf.
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