Callum Nathan Thomas Edmunds / MauLer93 / MauLer and the EFAPshere - Objective discussion about not-Channel Awesome featuring Rags, Southpaw and more!

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Are MauLer's videos too long?

  • Yes

    Votes: 186 13.0%
  • No

    Votes: 388 27.2%
  • Fuck YES

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Those hack frauds made an insanely popular internet video in the early days of social media that basically changed the way movies are analyzed online.
Despite the NOOOO memes, people liked the Prequels till the Plinkett review of Episode I.

Lucas saw it, Disney saw it, everyone did, maybe not all 3 but definitely TPM.
If they're aware of the fucking Fandom Menace, you don't think they're aware of RLM?
Celebs were sharing their videos back in the day.
Rian Johnson wrote on Twitter that he fears their review before TLJ came out.

Perhaps the old fucks like Kathleen Kennedy don't know them but someone younger who worked for her maybe saw the Plinkett stuff and was like: "What about JJ Abrams? He did those Star trek reboots."
They get guests now who are in box office hits, Hollywood is definitely aware.

Realistically, in 2022, if they get a million views on a review and then their nerdy audience tells their friends (and they probably will), that can translate to $20 million in ticket sales.
More than that, they have fanboys among other Youtubers and their review can influence Youtube's opinion of a movie as a whole.

They're very influential, is what I'm saying.
Ahem:


All of these are pre-2009, when the Plinkett review of The Phantom Menace was released. RLM didn't cause a switch in peoples' heads to flip so that they went from liking to the prequels to hating them. People already had their grievances with the movies, and the Plinkett reviews just articulated them in a way that hadn't been done before.
 
The prequels released when social media / youtube were just catching on.
I had limited exposure online back then, but things like hating Jar-Jar, being bored at the politic scenes, or being antagonistic to the excess of CGI were common sticking points before Plinkett existed. But you could argue that it helped it go "viral".
"Practical effects!" was a oft used marketing point for episode 7.

The thing is that the fan backlash towards Disney Wars and a very healthy meme community helped the prequels get back in the good graces of the common public (that and people that were like 12 years old in 2005 never really hated them in the first place).

I know a few people that are just like Rich Evans in that they still hold a visceral disgust over the prequel movies, and those snappy derisive comments were bound to piss people off, EFAP or not.
Despite the NOOOO memes, people liked the Prequels till the Plinkett review of Episode I.
The entire reason why people hate the prequels is because it's not like the OT, which is something people born into the era of Clone Wars don't really understand until they get over the mania of their own childhood fandom. The OT was limited in terms of material, but was expansive in the imagination of its fans. Now the opposite is true.

Let me give an unrelated example:
People didn't like Ghostbusters 2016 because it strayed far away from what made the original good. What was once practical, became digital. What was once a bunch of goofy men and a sarcastic lady became a bunch of goofy women and a stupid man.
The story of the original was adult, took place in a realized world, and the comedy/emotion came from the characters. The story of the 2016 one seemed to villainize a loser fanboy, with characters that had nothing to offer the fans of the original except perhaps flanderization.

Dan Akroyd (Ray Stantz) was hyperbolic, sensitive, verbose, and fearful.
Harold Ramis (Egon Spengler) was a serious nerd who lacked social skills, but was very ordered in his methods.
Bill Murray (Peter Venkman) was a deadpan lothario who was just trying to coast through life and hook up with women until he fell in love with a client.
I'm not going to mention Ernie much, because its quite clear that Winston was supposed to be played by Eddie Murphy which makes the character seem a bit diminished in the final product. But Ernie Hudson's character is quite simply "in it for the paycheck", and is the straight man of the bunch. He's not unwelcome at all.

Now in 2016, every single character is goofy, unfunny, and seem to be a parody of all the original characters at the same time.
They're all obnoxious blowhards that are overacting even when they're trying to underplay a situation.
This is chiefly because Ghostbusters (1984) was a very well written and directed comedy with great special effects and pretty good cinematography.
Meanwhile Ghostbusters 2016 was shot like a cheap television show, and was filled with unfunny improv that didn't advance the plot.

Now the reason I'm mentioning Ghostbusters 2016, is because it exemplifies the issues that most of these 20-30 year sequel/prequel/reboots have.
The original Star Wars is this gritty, beautifully rendered story steeped in mythological foundations. It has great in camera effects, aesthetics, and characters. Just like the original ghostbusters.

Every character is a great example of a particular archetype, and distinct in terms of the story. The young hero who loses everything, but joins the mentor on an adventure with the scoundrel who really has a heart of gold. The rambunctious princess who wants to fight. The evil strongman and old tyrant who want to control everything. Faith, tradition, and nature vs technologically driven tyranny for the sake of power. It is a product of its time, but it is also relevant to any time period the viewer comes from because of its mythological concepts.

In my opinion, the only thing that the prequels kept were familiar characters, locations, and concepts. But, the new digital techniques, the new characters designed for young children to connect to, the removal of grit, and the lack of polished scripting was obvious from the get go. The mythology and mysticism of the force in the OT was spiritual in nature, while the PT introduced a scientific explanation with a measuring system defined by technology similar to Dragonball Z power levels, thus demystifying the force.
Plinkett didn't have to say any of this to be true, it's just that Mike Stoklasa was able to explain these things in such detail at such a length at the time.

You could wax poetically for hours about how amazing the PT's themes are, or how bleeding edge the film techniques are, or how great the ideas are. But, 20 years of fandom was based around a specific set of characters, factions, and the methodology behind the production. It is entirely possible the prequels could have been made in the same sensibility as the originals, but that wasn't what George wanted to do technologically or artistically. Or maybe the restrictions he faced on the first two movies in particular were why the movies came out as well as they did.

The point of all of this, is that for a sequel/prequel/reboot/spinoff/etc. to be considered good by the fans, it has to be formed in a similar manner. This is why to me, movies like Top Gun: Maverick are so well accepted by fans and general audiences, even if they're derivative. On the other hand, this is why stuff that attempts to alter too much from the source or the original fall apart. For all the shit talking I've seen about Critical Drinker, this seems to be his central thesis in almost every video. The same problem with Ghostbusters 2016 is in Shane Black's Predator movie. It's in Star Wars. It's in Star Trek Picard. It's in The Dark Tower. It's in modern James Bond. Hell The Hobbit movies are just like the prequels. Overly focused on CGI, bloated with silliness, overacting, and underwritten to boot. There are very, very few sequels worthy of their franchise and this has never been more relevant.

My example of Top Gun: Maverick coincides with a movie that Joseph Kosinski, the director made in 2009, Tron Legacy. While taking place many many years later, the movie gives respect to its characters, and the legacy of the franchise. Its in the very name of the movie. While it has different techniques to accomplish its mission, its aesthetic fits the concept. And though it is derivative, it is still faithful to the spirit of the original. This to me, is why some franchises are praised while others crash and burn. You're either adding, subtracting, multiplying, or dividing the fanbase. If you care about the lore, if you care about the techniques, if you care about the fan's expectations and desires then you're on the right track. If you use a well loved, established franchise to make an independent artistic statement, or want to change the material for new audiences that aren't the same as the previous, you're not only shooting yourself in the foot, you're shooting the franchise in the heart.

The abject disconnect in terms of quality and sensibility between the three Star Wars trilogies is part of the reason why I've completely given up on Star Wars, and really is emblematic of nerd fandom in general being left behind by copyright holders who crank out whatever they feel like. What has happened, is these large corporations have realized they have painted themselves into a corner. They have to make everything for everyone knowing that people will complain on twitter regardless for all sorts of reasons. They have to be woke, but they also have to sell to saudi arabia and china. They want new young fans but they also want to get the whales and the nostalgia. They want to make something new but they also want to use the old franchise's brand and story to construct these things.

And in the end, while the artistic integrity and depth of interest starts to recede as the material itself becomes more shallow, the studio knows that their system works to keep the engine of production oiled up and working...You see that producer, that costumer, that grip? They're just glad to be working.
 
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people liked the Prequels till the Plinkett review of Episode I.
:disagree:
Absolutely not. Kids liked them, because they're kids, but the reaction was not all hunky dory until Plinkett. "George Lucas Raped Our Childhood" was released in 2005 for fucks sake -- the song's very existence as a parody is indicative of a significant split in opinion on the prequels
 
"The point of all of this, is that for a sequel/prequel/reboot/spinoff/etc. to be considered good by the fans, it has to be formed in a similar manner. This is why to me, movies like Top Gun: Maverick are so well accepted by fans and general audiences, even if they're derivative."

Hard disagree. The problem isn't that these stories deviate from the source material, it's that they're poorly executed. Top Gun: Maverick wasn't immune to being shit by simply doing what the original did.

Take Transformers for example. The franchise was in a dire state due to several failures at replicating the success of Generation 1. Then came Beast Wars, which was so antithetical to G1. A CGI cartoon where the robots turned into animals instead of vehicles and no humans present. And yet, a good chunk of the fanbase consider it better than G1. It was so good in fact, it saved Transformers as it brought new life into the franchise.

Or if you want a more modern example, Transformers Prime took all the elements from Bayformers and actually made them function. Bayformers itself deviating alot from the source material.

I really dislike the notion that for some prequel, sequel, reboot, etc to be good, it has to be slavish to the source material and not make any changes. The TMNT franchise does it all the time, which doesn't make the concept stale. The best Shredder in many fans eyes isn't the human ninja, it's literally an alien criminal in a robot suit.
 
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I would like to pat this thread on the back for providing more insight and better discussion on the Star Wars Prequels in roughly a single page's worth of posts than the Welsh, Dog Humper, and Plague Doctor Muppet did over hours and hours of aimless podcast debating.
Remember when they spent several minutes trying to decode what "twice the pride, double the fall" meant?
 
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With regards to the Jar Jar actor, I remember a huge chunk of the hate back then was because black people claimed it was a racist caricature, similar to the nigga robots in Transformers 2.
Yup. That was indeed the reason.
Jake Lloyd... I think he was a child and overreacted to the trolling,
He got horribly bullied in real life. It wasn't just trolling.
he also seemed to be genuinely mentally ill.
He is. And if I had to bet, the sheer amount of bullying probably did not help.
They should have started with a teenage Anakin.
Who revived so much hate he stopped doing movies for ages.
 
"The point of all of this, is that for a sequel/prequel/reboot/spinoff/etc. to be considered good by the fans, it has to be formed in a similar manner. This is why to me, movies like Top Gun: Maverick are so well accepted by fans and general audiences, even if they're derivative."

Hard disagree. The problem isn't that these stories deviate from the source material, it's that they're poorly executed. Top Gun: Maverick wasn't immune to being shit by simply doing what the original did.

Take Transformers for example. The franchise was in a dire state due to several failures at replicating the success of Generation 1. Then came Beast Wars, which was so antithetical to G1. A CGI cartoon where the robots turned into animals instead of vehicles and no humans present. And yet, a good chunk of the fanbase consider it better than G1. It was so good in fact, it saved Transformers as it brought new life into the franchise.

Or if you want a more modern example, Transformers Prime took all the elements from Bayformers and actually made them function. Bayformers itself deviating alot from the source material.

I really dislike the notion that for some prequel, sequel, reboot, etc to be good, it has to be slavish to the source material and not make any changes. The TMNT franchise does it all the time, which doesn't make the concept stale. The best Shredder in many fans eyes isn't the human ninja, it's literally an alien criminal in a robot suit.
I couldn't comment on those things because I was more into mecha than Transformers. I also never found TMNT that interesting. Wasn't ever a western cartoon fan in terms of 80s or early 90s franchises on TV like GI Joe or X-men. If anything I found them both best suited for younger audiences in Sunday morning/after school syndicated cartoon format.

I never felt like the adaptations really hit the mark, but in line with my perspective on franchises i found the transformers movie with unicron the most visually appropriate, and the live action TMNT movies with the rubber suits the most fun.

My cartoon choices were more towards klasky csupo stuff or cartoon network. Angry Beavers, Doug, etc.

Perhaps you're right but I couldn't argue based on detailed knowledge like Star Wars, Star Trek, or Ghostbusters. None of which I felt lived as well in cartoon format as live action. But again, that's either personal preference or a matter of function matching form. Couldn't tell you which in confidence.

I still maintain that Canon is something like a fictional history, and making big changes to it requires a lot of forethought to work. A lot of the time these sequel things take massive liberties to create their stories like giving main characters children they never met. In my opinion almost all of these things shouldn't be made in the first place. But the reality is they will, so how does the team involved preserve and create at the same time? To me it requires that respect for the Canon. It's not that everything has to be exactly the same, it's that we aren't using a blank slate to create, and people know what's on that slate before you make the thing. Nerds will complain about stuff because it's different. It's rarer they'll complain that something stays the same, unless there's a perceived reason that the thing they're talking about should change. Like Indiana Jones or Han Solo wearing the same thing for 40 years. Or resetting a status quo when the character should be in a better place decade's later.
 
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Ahem:


All of these are pre-2009, when the Plinkett review of The Phantom Menace was released. RLM didn't cause a switch in peoples' heads to flip so that they went from liking to the prequels to hating them. People already had their grievances with the movies, and the Plinkett reviews just articulated them in a way that hadn't been done before.
:disagree:
Absolutely not. Kids liked them, because they're kids, but the reaction was not all hunky dory until Plinkett. "George Lucas Raped Our Childhood" was released in 2005 for fucks sake -- the song's very existence as a parody is indicative of a significant split in opinion on the prequels
Yeah, I'm not sure where the "Everyone loved the prequels till Plinkett" narrative came about. I guess it's prequel fans trying to place the blame on the state of Star Wars on Mike and claiming that George Lucas' vision was so loved and accepted when that wasn't the case. It could also be that kids who grew up with the Prequels are now old enough to reminisce and cherish it because they grew up with it, and in response to the quality of modern Disney Star Wars, hold it up on a pedestal.
 
Since Drinker is still linked with MauLer/EFAP and his thread is dead last I checked, I'll just point this out here.

For any of you thinking Drinker racist, is secretly "our guy" and trying to redpill normies or whatever, this is what you get: a center left faggot that thinks diversity is "a noble goal!" Oh, and all these forced new non-White characters could have been "cool characters" but the script was bad :(
These guys are "SJWs" going the speed limit. Can't wait for them to talk about how much the love the trans kid in [product movie] in the three years!
Ahem:


All of these are pre-2009, when the Plinkett review of The Phantom Menace was released. RLM didn't cause a switch in peoples' heads to flip so that they went from liking to the prequels to hating them. People already had their grievances with the movies, and the Plinkett reviews just articulated them in a way that hadn't been done before.
This is beyond sad and cringe. These grown ass men that can't let go of their nerd shit. I miss when acting like this made YOU the joke. Oh no! You didn't like a movie! You poor thing! Clearly Lucas is Satan himself and made TPM just to "rape" your childhood.

It's amazing that the people that worked in (((Hollywood))) and made this shit come off like RLM today: bitter and childish over someone making some movies you don't like. At least Jay seems cool about all of it.
 
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The Obi-Wan show is definitely better than the lot Disney has produced so far. I don't see how it's controversial to say Obi-Wan is "alright." About on par with Mandalorian, though it's like a 6 or 7 out of 10. I don't get how such a mildly enthusiastic review is somehow the final straw that calls for an EFAP.
If you aren't a star wars fan i can see you likeing it, its full of slocky action and marvel esque lol so random humour. Its a middle of the road tv show filled with bad writing and plot holes that comes with it,

But if you have watched any of the movies then i can't see how. The whole show devalues what came before it in favour of new paper thin characters, it breaks the constitancy and lore of the universe constantly often with no pay off. A lot of scenes make no fucking sense and only exist so the writers can drag the story forward and thats the reason why RLM likes it seeing as they are trekies and see Star wars as something dumb.
 
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"The point of all of this, is that for a sequel/prequel/reboot/spinoff/etc. to be considered good by the fans, it has to be formed in a similar manner. This is why to me, movies like Top Gun: Maverick are so well accepted by fans and general audiences, even if they're derivative."

Hard disagree. The problem isn't that these stories deviate from the source material, it's that they're poorly executed. Top Gun: Maverick wasn't immune to being shit by simply doing what the original did.

Take Transformers for example. The franchise was in a dire state due to several failures at replicating the success of Generation 1. Then came Beast Wars, which was so antithetical to G1. A CGI cartoon where the robots turned into animals instead of vehicles and no humans present. And yet, a good chunk of the fanbase consider it better than G1. It was so good in fact, it saved Transformers as it brought new life into the franchise.

Or if you want a more modern example, Transformers Prime took all the elements from Bayformers and actually made them function. Bayformers itself deviating alot from the source material.

I really dislike the notion that for some prequel, sequel, reboot, etc to be good, it has to be slavish to the source material and not make any changes. The TMNT franchise does it all the time, which doesn't make the concept stale. The best Shredder in many fans eyes isn't the human ninja, it's literally an alien criminal in a robot suit.
See also: Star Trek: Deep Space 9.
 
But if you have watched any of the movies then i can't see how.
I don't see how your critiques of the show can't be applied to Phantom Menace, which had fart jokes and shit humor with an obnoxious comic relief character and child actor that also contradicted and retcon the original films. So much that Lucas released special editions of the original films to fit in with the prequels.
I can sympathize with RLM when they ask who cares about lore retcons when so much of the lore has been retconned already. It seems purposely ignorant and selective to be okay when Lucas did it but then denouncing Disney doing it as sacrilege.
But on the quality of the show, it's alright. It doesn't drop the ball but it stumbles a bit with trying to keep the narrative drive going, which means Leia gets kidnapped repeatedly and it feels repetitive. But it succeeds in establishing Obi-Wan's needs and desire, and giving him weaknesses that actually made him interesting. And unlike what Ryan Johnson did to Luke, it feels like a natural extension of his character arc from Revenge of the Sith. I thought it did good job in making me care for Obi-Wan and giving Ewan McGregor a character to work off of. When before he was a posh, proper stoic, here he's a beaten down hermit that lost his faith, it was nice seeing him go through a character change since that's what was missing from the prequel is that no one in those films really changed and everyone was pretty much one note. Where it does stumble is not fleshing out the other characters, and rushing the finale. I didn't find Reva's change believable and the revelation of her being a survivor of Order 66 was hardly surprising or interesting. There should have been more development for her, maybe with her having more of her backstory explored earlier or given more complexity to her actions. But her character ends redeemed and it doesn't feel earned, it feels anti-climatic. There's other issues like its cheapness but it's generally a lot better than the other Disney Star Wars except maybe Mandalorian S1. It feels like it had a story it wanted to tell, just maybe stretched out a little bit.
 
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Episode 5 reaction from Longfat, Furry Degenerate, Anglo Troon and the Irrelevant Ones.
 
While RLM's video probably wasn't watched directly by JJ Abrams the video definitely had influence over a large portion of fans and helped create discourse.

Not that the movies weren't shitty on their own, but RLM had a massive platform before most people did.
I was in film school when the Phantom Menace was released in 1999 and we knew it was shit then. There is a myth RLM created Prequel hate, they didn't they just gave it it's first voice that's all.

As for EFAP and Mauler personally I'm not sitting thru a review which is longer than the damn movie or show. I'd rather just watch the thing and make my own mind up then.
 
Those hack frauds made an insanely popular internet video in the early days of social media that basically changed the way movies are analyzed online.
Despite the NOOOO memes, people liked the Prequels till the Plinkett review of Episode I.

Unless you were a literal child or devout Star Wars fan who just shoveled in anything SW-related, everybody agreed the prequels were bad. The Plinkett review was just an amalgamation of all the built up disappointment and irritation with the prequels that finally did a good job of fairly succinctly explaining the 'why' it was bad. If something like Youtube existed back in 1999 where video reviews of media were commonplace, I guarantee you would have a million Mauler-esque Phantom Menace videos.


Side Note: Anybody getting mad over the Star Wars Disney shows needs to calm down. They are not slaps in the fact to fans or atrocious pieces of trash. At worst they are just aggressively mid, more-so uneven shows with moments that really work and others that just kinda feel undercooked or bleh. 'But retcons of lore!' Bro Star Wars lore has been retconned by so much of Star Wars media since the beginning its stupid lol. If they can make a solid story with engaging characters and get me to emotionally engage - I can roll with it. Hell, if they can make something fun I can roll with it. Worst thing about Disney is they will milk the shit out of the series even worse than Lucas ever did. Which is saying something.
 
Unless you were a literal child or devout Star Wars fan who just shoveled in anything SW-related, everybody agreed the prequels were bad. The Plinkett review was just an amalgamation of all the built up disappointment and irritation with the prequels that finally did a good job of fairly succinctly explaining the 'why' it was bad. If something like Youtube existed back in 1999 where video reviews of media were commonplace, I guarantee you would have a million Mauler-esque Phantom Menace videos.


Side Note: Anybody getting mad over the Star Wars Disney shows needs to calm down. They are not slaps in the fact to fans or atrocious pieces of trash. At worst they are just aggressively mid, more-so uneven shows with moments that really work and others that just kinda feel undercooked or bleh. 'But retcons of lore!' Bro Star Wars lore has been retconned by so much of Star Wars media since the beginning its stupid lol. If they can make a solid story with engaging characters and get me to emotionally engage - I can roll with it. Hell, if they can make something fun I can roll with it. Worst thing about Disney is they will milk the shit out of the series even worse than Lucas ever did. Which is saying something.
The assembly line style these shows are coming out is really the only the gripe that's unique to Disney Star Wars, maybe the wokeness too but I frankly think the people making Disney Star Wars out to be the worst abominations to ever be produced are just grifters feeding off the anger of fans for their own personal gain. It's like an industry in itself, they're farming all that fanboy anger and raking in thousands of dollars. The mentality that you have to hate all Disney Star Wars or you're not a true fan is fucking stupid, it has its ups and downs but not everything produced is steaming shit coming out of Satan's asshole like they make it out to be.
 
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