Lord of the Rings TV Series in Development - How could this POSSIBLY go wrong...

[mindlessobserver]

Not seen much commentary on the black Tar-Miriel. Weird, you think there'd be more stuff but then again she is an obscure character.


I'll make it very simple-blacks where they don't belong=woke.

Black Numenorians are not a thing for a reason. In the legendarium, they are the descendents of a single tribe of Humans that stayed loyal to the Valor and fought with the elves, and for that they were rewarded by Ulmo, the Water Guardian with their very own Island kingdom that was raised from the bones of sunken Beleriant.

They are all white because the idea of a diverse and inclusive tribe made zero sense, and Tolkien was essentially writing about mythological English people from Atlantis. There are Black people in the legendarium that these hacks could have drawn on. So little is written about them they could even have had damn near free reign to include them in the story in any way they wanted. But nah, fuck it. Black Kweens of Numenor.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

Black Numenorians are not a thing for a reason. In the legendarium, they are the descendents of a single tribe of Humans that stayed loyal to the Valor and fought with the elves, and for that they were rewarded by Ulmo, the Water Guardian with their very own Island kingdom that was raised from the bones of sunken Beleriant.

They are all white because the idea of a diverse and inclusive tribe made zero sense, and Tolkien was essentially writing about mythological English people from Atlantis. There are Black people in the legendarium that these hacks could have drawn on. So little is written about them they could even have had damn near free reign to include them in the story in any way they wanted. But nah, fuck it. Black Kweens of Numenor.

The Edain were three tribes, not a single tribe. Also, the Drúedain (the wild men) were on the island as well, though that is sourced from notes and may not be 100% canon. Yes, there are black people in Middle-Earth, in the more southern parts of Harad. No, none of the Edain were black nor are their descendants (maybe some interbreeding happened in Harondor but the northern parts of Harad are more Middle-Eastern). Even the so-called "Black Númenoreans" are not black, since if they are the descendants of the King's Men faction of Númenoreans they almost certainly regard Haradrim as lesser beings than them and would never interbreed with them. The Númenoreans colonized Harad in the second age, so black people being in the show was always on the table, though not as hobbits, dwarves, or Dúnedain, which is what they have done.

 

[Ishtar]

Don't make the mistake of thinking "the lore" is a consideration at all, these people do not care. They are not remotely interested in faithful adaptations of the material or explorations of its implications.

Its all woke pandering and fulfilling Amazon's (required) diversity quota. They have company policies mandating certain characters be black or gay or whatever-and they have to achieve said numbers no matter what else the show simply doesn't pass HR regulations.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

Don't make the mistake of thinking "the lore" is a consideration at all, these people do not care. They are not remotely interested in faithful adaptations of the material or explorations of its implications.

Its all woke pandering and fulfilling Amazon's (required) diversity quota. They have company policies mandating certain characters be black or gay or whatever-and they have to achieve said numbers no matter what else the show simply doesn't pass HR regulations.

Oh, we know, it's just fun talking about what this show would be like in a ideal environment since there is so little material for us to work with until the show comes out. And when it does come out only the most masochistic among us will actually watch the show while the rest of us pick apart how wrong it is.
As I said before, we might as well give up on talking about the race of the characters being wrong, since it is just a reality he have to deal with at this point.

They are all white because the idea of a diverse and inclusive tribe made zero sense

"I'm a Harfoot, because J.R.R. Tolkien, who was also from Birmingham, suddenly there were black Hobbits, I'm a black hobbit, it's brilliant, and what's notable about this run of the books, its a prequel to the age that we've seen in the films, it's about the early days of the Shire and Tolkien's environment, so we're an indigenous population of Harfoots, we're Hobbits but we're called Harfoots, we're multi-cultural, we're a tribe, not a race, so we're black, Asian and brown, even Maori types within it," Henry said.

Tell that to the people who made this crap, clearly tribes are hecking multiracial blobs. I don't know what these people are smoking to think this has any basis in reality.
Also I just noticed that they are saying that Hobbits lived in the Shire during the 2nd Age which is ludicrous. Every time I read this quote I find more stupidity.
EDIT: For those who are wondering this is a quote from an interview a while back of the guy playing the black Hobbit in this. This isn't new information.

 

[mr.moon1488]

I can't wait for this show to succeed so it makes you all scream in terror like headless chickens. There is nothing woke about this

The disruptive guest tags have been one of the most spot-on things the farms has implemented.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

The disruptive guest tags have been one of the most spot-on things the farms has implemented.

Strangely enough that account is one of the most senior member on this thread somehow.

 

[Chester Rigby]

Strangely enough that account is one of the most senior member on this thread somehow.

Meh... Another angsty asshole who needs to be on the opposite side because all the negative attention thrills them.

 

[Ira the Weatherman]

I like the Jackson Lord of the Rings films and I will defend them as good films and good adaptations of Tolkein's work.
This obviously excludes the Hobbit ones.

They are not as good as the books though and while enjoyable I think a lot of what I enjoy required reading the books too. There's depth to the performances that gets strengthened by knowledge of what is left out.

I do roll my eyes at the comic and overly action-oriented stuff even if I can guiltily admit to enjoying it. But they are only adaptations and I honestly do not think you could do a proper adaptation of Lord of the Rings as a performance. Some things are perfect in the medium they are created in and attempts to transform them lose something.

There's a strange sentiment floating around that you need to either unconditionally love or hate every aspect of the Jackson films. It isn't mutually exclusive to hold that they're incredibly well-crafted adaptations that paid a great deal of attention and respect to the source material, while also acknowledging that they took dubious or outright wrong creative liberties in other respects.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of consoomer LotR movie fans will defend this because they fall under this sort of mentality that you need to be overwhelmingly positive about everything tangentially Tolkien-related or your not a 'real fan' or a 'positive part of the discussion'. It's a mentality that a see infesting a lot of the Star Trek fandom in reddit circlejerks and I think I'm seeing it here too in even more dedicated parts of the fandom.

It's just childish, really. People who slavishly cling to a brand and whatever 'iconic' things are associated with it, regardless of the quality of the actual product that has had it slapped on.

It's become a fixture of modern culture thanks to the corporatization of everything but it doesn't make it any less bizarre. I make no claims of being a highbrow, big brain guy but even I can understand that what makes a particular piece of art noteworthy isn't the fucking window dressing. For example, there was no shortage of space operas featuring galactic knights and pew pew laser weapons before or after Star Wars (hell, Star Wars was explicitly inspired by that genre) but none of them achieved the same kind of popularity because they didn't share crucial creative features that made the original Star Wars such a lightning-in-a-bottle phenomenon, and it famously could've been a dud had they just edited it differently.

The execution was made it special and conversely, a lack of a good execution makes it uninteresting, regardless of how cool Darth Vader looks or whatever. It only makes sense to tune out and lament any subsequent sequels if they suck ass and fail to uphold what made the original great. If anything, I prefer they don't even bother if it's obvious they can't follow it up properly. I don't have some pathological need for franchising, I'll just appreciate what made the original product unique. It's a fucking movie, not a religion.

 

[Ishtar]

The subreddit is basically just people begging "pwease pwease don't be mean to the show" I'd laugh it wasn't sad. Its not even spinning for the most part, it's a plea to not (rightly) summarily dismiss the show on the basis of the trailers.

I honestly get the impression Amazon really isn't confident in the show-the trailers have been generic and split by months, and the marketing campaign has been a mixture of duds and outright embarassment(the super fan video).

Given they have already said somewhere "we have an ending down to the last scene planned"-I suspect they have run the numbers and know only five seasons is going to recoup the massive expense assuming all else goes smoothly. If they were really confident in the show they could and would string it out for years as a flagship program.

I don't think they are.

 

[Screamer]

The subreddit is basically just people begging "pwease pwease don't be mean to the show" I'd laugh it wasn't sad. Its not even spinning for the most part, it's a plea to not (rightly) summarily dismiss the show on the basis of the trailers.

I honestly get the impression Amazon really isn't confident in the show-the trailers have been generic and split by months, and the marketing campaign has been a mixture of duds and outright embarassment(the super fan video).

Given they have already said somewhere "we have an ending down to the last scene planned"-I suspect they have run the numbers and know only five seasons is going to recoup the massive expense assuming all else goes smoothly. If they were really confident in the show they could and would string it out for years as a flagship program.

I don't think they are.

I wonder if the move from New Zealand and location work. To shooting on a LED volume in the UK was because they looked at the first season rough cut and slashed the budget.

As for fans begging to not be mean to the show. The closest I can relate to this was being in denial that TPM disappointed me. Kids at school knew I was a Star Wars fan and were eager to tell me how bad the film was. To which I'd lie and say I wasn't disappointed. Yet I was a young teen back then. So I think that's ok... Now people tell me stuff I like is shit all the time and I don't give a toss.

 

[Divine right to rule]

New trailer.
There also seems to be a big online marketing push, with shills everywhere.

 

[Muttnik]

Currently listening to the LOTR audiobooks. Which makes this woke bullshit especially jarring. Incredibly generic and insincere.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

New trailer.
There also seems to be a big online marketing push, with shills everywhere.

Those fucking "Always after me Lucky Charms" accents on the "Harfoots." Holy fuck.

I thought I was beyond getting upset at Hollywood shitting on this, that or the other other thing, but Tolkien just somehow hits too close to home. This series may actually slither under the Wheel of Time, though that is about as low a bar as I could imagine.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Probably not genderless, there is a even a reference to a specific Orc being the son of another Orc in the Hobbit.

The Hobbit also had giants, and the what always struck me as iffy in canon Beornings.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

New trailer.
There also seems to be a big online marketing push, with shills everywhere.

This entire trailer is just a series of cliché trailer phrases that say nothing. Reminds me of this.

Only thing that has been shown is that Galadriel is supposed to be some sort of grizzled veteran of the War of the Jewels which is sort of hilarious to me. We knew this would be the case but it's just so stupid. It's like she's the main character of a trashy YA fantasy novel.

The Hobbit also had giants, and the what always struck me as iffy in canon Beornings.

Beorn and his descendants are explicitly talked about in LoTRs so it's not like the giants, who are shown and then never seen again. Orcs are also said to "multiply in the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar" which implies sexual reproduction.

 

[Standardized Profile]

New trailer.
There also seems to be a big online marketing push, with shills everywhere.

Gotta love baby Elrond mansplaining to Galadriel, who is several thousand (hundred? IDK) years older than him, saw the Two Trees, fought in the Kinslaying, crossed the Helcaraxe, and was tutored by Melian for nearly an Age of the Sun. The creators really grasp the relationships of these characters. Everybody should be treating Galadriel like a dumb girl, giving her bad advice, talking over her at councils, hitting on her, and offering to do physical things for her even though she's perfectly capable of doing them herself. That's the only way we can know she's a strong woman, there is literally no other way to depict a capable and intelligent woman than to compare her to less capable and stupid men.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

Gotta love baby Elrond mansplaining to Galadriel, who is several thousand (hundred? IDK) years older than him, saw the Two Trees, fought in the Kinslaying, crossed the Helcaraxe, and was tutored by Melian for nearly an Age of the Sun. The creators really grasp the relationships of these characters. Everybody should be treating Galadriel like a dumb girl, giving her bad advice, talking over her at councils, hitting on her, and offering to do physical things for her even though she's perfectly capable of doing them herself. That's the only way we can know she's a strong woman, there is literally no other way to depict a capable and intelligent woman than to compare her to less capable and stupid men.

As has been said before, they really seem to be acting like Galadriel is really young and brash or something. Presumably due to their lack of Silmarillion ownership. Her main goal at this point of time seems to be the restoration or at least safety of the Eldar in Middle-Earth by establishing realms and fending off against the weariness they felt. She also became a parent around this time too. Did Celeborn even show up?

Also Galadriel and the rest of Firnarfin's house did not participate in the kinslaying. And yes, she is thousands of years older than Elrond, though she can't be that much older than Gil-Galad and Celebrimbor. Círdan is definitely older but never went West. There's also probably a decent number of Noldor left in Lindon and Eregion that had seen the two trees and hadn't gone West yet (even by the time of LotR there are implied to be a handful left in Rivendell). The only ones we know of by name are the ones that are members of the royal family and probably Glorfindel.

 

[Hugbox Kommissar]

So we've got a couple of story arcs here:

1: Girlboss Galadriel being elfsplained that Sauron is gone except she knows deep down he isn't because she's thousands of years old female. Expect flashbacks to the Helcaraxe crossing and the War of Wrath.
2:  Hobbit Harfoot Call to Adventure featuring giant meteor*
3: Men fucking around being colonizers and sheeeeeet.


*wild speculation: they're going to to have the meteor land near the harfoot village except Sauron wants the special metal inside the meteor so he sends his orcs to secure it who end up destroying the village except for our harfoot main character(s) who are thereby drawn into the quest to stop Sauron. It's entirely trope-y and unoriginal so I would bet that's what happens.

 

[PenguinSuitAlice]

Girlboss Galadriel being elfsplained that Sauron is gone except she knows deep down he isn't because she's thousands of years old female. Expect flashbacks to the Helcaraxe crossing and the War of Wrath.

I'm pretty sure no one 100% knew Sauron was coming back. Even though Gil-Galad and Galadriel rejected Annatar because they knew he was lying about being an emissary of the the Valar, they never fully suspected him of being Sauron and didn't figure it out until he openly revealed himself returned when he created the One Ring. When this happened, the Elven Ringbearers removed their rings and hid them because they realized how badly they screwed up by not dealing with him when he was still weak and that the whole magic ring thing was an attempt to seize control of them. This led to them being almost wiped out by Sauron's forces in an incredibly bloody war had the Númenoreans not bailed them out.

 

[draggs]

So we've got a couple of story arcs here:

1: Girlboss Galadriel being elfsplained that Sauron is gone except she knows deep down he isn't because she's thousands of years old female. Expect flashbacks to the Helcaraxe crossing and the War of Wrath.
2:  Hobbit Harfoot Call to Adventure featuring giant meteor*
3: Men fucking around being colonizers and sheeeeeet.


*wild speculation: they're going to to have the meteor land near the harfoot village except Sauron wants the special metal inside the meteor so he sends his orcs to secure it who end up destroying the village except for our harfoot main character(s) who are thereby drawn into the quest to stop Sauron. It's entirely trope-y and unoriginal so I would bet that's what happens.

I havent read the silmarillion in a while so i dont remember exactly but i think at the time the series is set men werent colonizing shit. The men living in middle earth were either uncivilized tribes or were friendly with the elves, and the shadow either hadnt started to fall yet on the numenoreans or had just started to, the only numenorean settlements in middle earth were outposts they built to log the forests of eriador for shipbuilding and to give resupply and safe harbor to their ships as they loved sailing around arda. They were friendly with the elves and other men in middle earth and did eventually make colonies in unsettled lands, but didnt go conquering other men until after sauron had revealed the one ring and middle earth was in a kind of cold war between sauron and the elves after he'd been forced to retreat to mordor by the numenoreans coming to the aid of the elves

Of course they have to come up with their own dumb shit to make men look bad, they couldnt just toss a hint here and there and do the corruption and fall of numenor later