Better Call Saul

This is why Jimmy's last second destruction of his plea deal to honor his dead brother is so ridiculous. He hated Chuck and Howard. Knowing he was partially involved in both of their deaths but breezed right past it during most of BCS and all of BB. Only to have it be a centerpiece of his extreme character reversal was downright atrocious storytelling. Like if Chuck and Howard hired Jimmy right after he got his license he probably never even becomes Saul Goodman.

People who defend the ending of BCS are utterly pathetic.
Like I said, it wasnt to honor Chuck it was to alleviate the guilt and grief hes felt since season four and to get jerked off by Kim’s feet. Like idk why of all things youre still of the opinion this ending is *too harsh* on Saul. He got off super easy imo. Sure its life in prison but getting his girl back, not being guilty anymore and getting worshipped is like a super good deal for what we’ve seen him do in season six
That's a fair point. Perhaps that is the intention? I might be giving WAY too much credit to the writers of the show, however, the hollowness of the ending to me felt like the reflection of the episode title and the catharsis of the narrative as a whole. Colorfully Charismatic Jimmy doomed to be dropped into a future with no color, all of his hustle, all of his extravagance got him what? Nothing. I'd say Walt had a happier ending than Jimmy, he got the money to his kids while Mike didn't (as far as I can recall), he got revenge on the Nazis. How did Walt start? A quiet, unassuming chemistry teacher...a diametric opposite to Jimmy McGill. But again, I might be reading too far into it.
i think that is the intention it just didnt feel as emotional as they couldve made it
The start of Breaking Bad to the end of Better Call Saul is 14 years. It would smack of desperation if there was another spinoff. They’d be getting into that shitty era in the 1970s and 1980s where there were a bunch of spinoffs of spinoffs primarily created by Norman Lear.

What made Better Call Saul work was the strength of Jimmy’s character and the acting chops and charisma of Bob Odenkirk to pull it off. The actors are getting too old, too many characters have died or are in positions where a spinoff doesn’t work. But AMC might be desperate enough to try something or maybe some video shorts of some minor characters. I think any other spinoff would fail, lasting a few episodes at most.

Although if we’re just BSing potential spinoff ideas, a Hank Schrader-Steve Gomez DEA buddy cop series could be one. Then you’d also have various side characters like Bill Oakley, Marie Schrader, etc. that would have very little relevance to the main BB+BCS plot line.

Only up to the moment where it significantly inconveniences him, at which point is becomes all about himself. Him voluntarily screwing up a seven year sentence is a total contradiction of his character. I think the only reason why that happened was to head off any speculation about what Jimmy would do once out of prison. Now that he’s going to rot, it was a lazy way to tie up a loose end.
keep in mind he gave up what was it half a million? So he could do the “right thing” in season one

Rewatched the finale, it's such bullshit that they thought Chuck having regrets about his life with jimmy right before he denied him basic brotherly love for most of the show.
I always interpreted it as Chuck telling Jimmy to quit being a lawyer in a nice way because he didnt need to
I'm probably playing devil's advocate here, but I quite enjoyed how it all wrapped up. It's a welcome quick snap return to the courtroom drama format of the show. I was honestly surprised to see them catch Gene not even 10 minutes in, with 58 minutes left on the clock.

I figured people would go apeshit and scream about how Jimmy ruining his 7 year deal in a snap decision upon hearing about Kim confessing and then appearing in court to see him would be nonsensical or just plain stupid; which it is. Jimmy is a nonsensical character who's purposely gotten himself involved in dumb schemes which would later backfire on him and require him to talk his way out of it, except that this time he makes the conscious decision to face the music and atone for what he's done just to save the few remaining shreds of dignity he has. It's meant to be seen as noble.

I will leave one critique of the episode though: apparently they filmed a take of Kim returning the finger gun gesture to Jimmy at the very end, but Peter Gould decided to cut it because he felt it would be seen as Kim "returning to scams" which i think is utterly retarded. It would have made the scene so much more satisfying to see the two of them send eachother off like that. I hope they put that in as an extra or deleted scene in the DVD atleast.
was it really even a snap decision? Seems he was contemplating it thru an entire plane ride and everything
 
I will leave one critique of the episode though: apparently they filmed a take of Kim returning the finger gun gesture to Jimmy at the very end, but Peter Gould decided to cut it because he felt it would be seen as Kim "returning to scams" which i think is utterly retarded. It would have made the scene so much more satisfying to see the two of them send eachother off like that. I hope they put that in as an extra or deleted scene in the DVD atleast.

Kim is doing subtle finger guns still in the last scene

 
I think a lot of people forgot (including myself) that after the second time he deals with Tuco (Season 1 finale, opening of Season 2) the first thing he does is calculate how much is family is going to need to be ok (not rich, not millionaires, just ok without him), puts it at 11 weeks, and says that immediately after that they stop. And they're only going to do it in public places from now on to avoid any risk of putting themselves in danger.

That's not the behavior of a man who is crazy with ego, a man who is after money, or a man who, in his own words being listened to the FBI later on 'I did it all for myself, because I wanted to'.

They are the words of a man who genuinely cares for his family, and wants to be out of this as soon as he can with the bare minimum he feels he is responsible to give them now that he's dying and he won't be able to provide for the rest of his life.

Now, he chose to do it through producing drugs, which you might claim is evil unless you're a libertarian/very socially liberal, but it's not the behavior of a bad or an evil man.

Objectively, I think that Walt was a better man than Saul, and maybe all the way to end because, as Saul said to the court and meant it, he personally enjoyed it, he did it all to make millions of dollars, and Walter would never have been able to achieve anything if it wasn't for him.

They tried to give him a redemption arc where he takes responsibility (and how much of that is redemption, now that he's a star in prison, doesn't have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life, and finally got the approval of Kim he was looking for?), but yeah I think that ultimately Saul was a far worse person than Walt, even though he is more likable because of his personality.

Walt loved torching that dude's car or beating the guys who mocked his retard son at the clothing store. Jesse opened up the door for Walt to engage in some real violence which he seemed to love. Walt was a psychopath before he had cancer even.
I don't think that's quite right.

You haven't ever seen some rich or flashy douchebag and thought 'Man, I wish I could destroy [a flagrant symbol of his douchebaggery]' just to stick it to him? Seen some asshole in line and wish you'd throw your drink in his face? What's the reason we don't do it? Consequences. It's not worth the hassle, it's not worth dealing with the possible reaction, and it's not worth dealing with the law.

Now if you take a man who just learned he's dying of cancer, it becomes a lot easier to go 'Well, fuck it, what have I got to lose?'

As far as Walt hurting the guys who were making fun of his retarded son, that's 100% appropriate behavior, he wasn't beating on 14 year olds, he hit a guy so much bigger than him who's clearly portrayed at being like 18 or something. I'm 100% fine with that, and if I saw that in real life I'd cheer on the dad.

There are very few situations where it's appropriate to wail on a stranger, but I'd say that if that stranger was making fun of your retarded son openly and loudly in front of you, that's one of those examples. Though if said father ended up being arrested afterwards I'd be fine with that, because it's not behavior we can legalize even if we feel it's justified in that instance.

I don't think those are signs that Walt is a psychopath who enjoys violence, I think they are sign of a man who feels he has nothing to lose anymore, and it foreshadows how much further down that path he's going to be willing to go later on.
 
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I think a lot of people forgot (including myself) that after the second time he deals with Tuco (Season 1 finale, opening of Season 2) the first thing he does is calculate how much is family is going to need to be ok (not rich, not millionaires, just ok without him), puts it at 11 weeks, and says that immediately after that they stop. And they're only going to do it in public places from now on to avoid any risk of putting themselves in danger.

That's not the behavior of a man who is crazy with ego, a man who is after money, or a man who, in his own words being listened to the FBI later on 'I did it all for myself, because I wanted to'.

They are the words of a man who genuinely cares for his family, and wants to be out of this as soon as he can with the bare minimum he feels he is responsible to give them now that he's dying and he won't be able to provide for the rest of his life.

Now, he chose to do it through producing drugs, which you might claim is evil unless you're a libertarian/very socially liberal, but it's not the behavior of a bad or an evil man.

Objectively, I think that Walt was a better man than Saul, and maybe all the way to end because, as Saul said to the court and meant it, he personally enjoyed it, he did it all to make millions of dollars, and Walter would never have been able to achieve anything if it wasn't for him.

They tried to give him a redemption arc where he takes responsibility (and how much of that is redemption, now that he's a star in prison, doesn't have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life, and finally got the approval of Kim he was looking for?), but yeah I think that ultimately Saul was a far worse person than Walt, even though he is more likable because of his personality.
Nah Walt chose to be evil, Heisenberg is the result of all his pent-up frustrations about life. His wasted education, his bitch wife, his breakfast loving crippled son, the late unplanned baby, his shitty job, the fact he's the butt of his brother in law's jokes. It's all Walt's bruised ego lashing out at society.

Saul was forced to be evil by life slapping down every attempt he made at breaking good. Instantly recognised a scam? Sorry, Daddy is a dink. Worked super hard to pass the bar? Sorry, your brother is determined to keep you in the mail room. Try to exercise your natural creative talent? Sorry, but fuck you.

Sure a lot of the time Jimmy's worst enemy is Jimmy himself, but you can't deny he's desperate to get a win no matter what.
 
Ted reminds us of every retard who knows what the right thing to do is but will ru off the rails doing something retarded.
I was horrified and appalled when Howard got domed but Ted getting crippled was comic relief.
You haven't ever seen some rich or flashy douchebag and thought 'Man, I wish I could destroy [a flagrant symbol of his douchebaggery]' just to stick it to him? Seen some asshole in line and wish you'd throw your drink in his face? What's the reason we don't do it? Consequences. It's not worth the hassle, it's not worth dealing with the possible reaction, and it's not worth dealing with the law.
This is why a lot of early loyalty went to Walt. The show started mostly from his viewpoint, in which he was obviously right to himself, and a lot of his early "bad" acts were things everyone has at least thought of doing, but had too much to lose to afford having a nigga moment every time someone cuts them off in traffic.
I don't think those are signs that Walt is a psychopath who enjoys violence, I think they are sign of a man who feels he has nothing to lose anymore, and it foreshadows how much further down that path he's going to be willing to go later on.
One of the best moments of the show with the mercury fulminate, though, definitely showed he loved the violence itself. He got a huge rush out of it. As he said, he felt alive probably for the first time in years.
 
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Nah Walt chose to be evil, Heisenberg is the result of all his pent-up frustrations about life. His wasted education, his bitch wife, his breakfast loving crippled son, the late unplanned baby, his shitty job, the fact he's the butt of his brother in law's jokes. It's all Walt's bruised ego lashing out at society.
I don't think it's that easy. He only even embraces the Heisenberg persona when they get robbed by Tuco and Jesse ends up in the hospital. He feels he doesn't have a choice at this point. That's the theme of that first season so far, everything he's doing, he's walking backwards into it and doesn't want to, but feels like he doesn't have a choice (and, in a sense, truly doesn't).

Saul was forced to be evil by life slapping down every attempt he made at breaking good. Instantly recognised a scam? Sorry, Daddy is a dink. Worked super hard to pass the bar? Sorry, your brother is determined to keep you in the mail room. Try to exercise your natural creative talent? Sorry, but fuck you.

Sure a lot of the time Jimmy's worst enemy is Jimmy himself, but you can't deny he's desperate to get a win no matter what.
It's one read on Jimmy, but the other is that he was Slippin Jimmy ever since he was a kid, and all he ever did was to benefit Jimmy, no matter how many people he screwed over in the process. Let's not forget all of the horrible shit he ever did as Saul. He did it all for his ego/for himself, while Walt was still doing it for his family/survival for a long time before we reached the end of the show.

I was horrified and appalled when Howard got domed but Ted getting crippled was comic relief.
Agreed 100%
 
It's one read on Jimmy, but the other is that he was Slippin Jimmy ever since he was a kid, and all he ever did was to benefit Jimmy, no matter how many people he screwed over in the process. Let's not forget all of the horrible shit he ever did as Saul. He did it all for his ego/for himself, while Walt was still doing it for his family/survival for a long time before we reached the end of the show.
But who taught him that Slippin' Jimmy could be beneficial? The memory of his hard working dad being taken advantage of by conmen. I feel it was learned behavior rather than 'Saul was always in there'

As for the horrible shit Saul himself did? We all know Kim reined him in to an extent, BB-era Saul is another 'fuck you world' from Jimmy.
 
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But who taught him that Slippin' Jimmy could be beneficial? The memory of his hard working dad being taken advantage of by conmen. I feel it was learned behavior rather than 'Saul was always in there'
And there's the Chuck opinion, where he was always like that, and him taking from the till was just another extension of his behavior and not something he learned.

As for the horrible shit Saul himself did? We all know Kim reined him in to an extent, BB-era Saul is another 'fuck you world' from Jimmy.
That's my point. Jimmy went 'Fuck you!' to the world, and made a career out of helping the worst criminals escape justice by cheating the system, and making himself rich in the process. To the point where he helped Walter every single step of the way, making himself millions.

That's morally worse than what Walt did, imo.
 
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As far as Walt hurting the guys who were making fun of his retarded son, that's 100% appropriate behavior, he wasn't beating on 14 year olds, he hit a guy so much bigger than him who's clearly portrayed at being like 18 or something. I'm 100% fine with that, and if I saw that in real life I'd cheer on the dad.
No one is debating whether it was right or wrong. The debate was simply. Did Walt enjoy it? Does Walt like casual violence? The answer is yes. Both before and after he gets cancer. Guy just loves getting revenge on people for literally ANY perceived slight. Murder a child over a drug corner? You need to die. Talk loudly on the phone like an asshole? Gotta burn your car into ashes. Walt holds grudges like the ocean holds water. Even in BCS they had Walt continually obsess over Gretchen and Elliott because it was always on his mind.

Walt is like a vigilante that just cannot contain his rage at the world. Stuff like telling those two drugged out idiots at the hardware store. "Stay out of my territory" literally does nothing but make Walt feel powerful. And it risks more exposure for Walt but he does not care. He basically tells two drugged out strangers that could get arrested at any moment "Hey! I'm Heisenberg!". The power in the first season was. "Do I have the power take provide enough money for my family after I die?". Then it morphed to. "Do I have power?". Where then Walt is killing Gus and Mike and everyone else simply because he has the power to do it. He could walk away at any moment but chooses not to.

And in real life a 5'6" anorexic jew like Cranston would be beaten into a coma by three football sized jocks without question. The scene where Walt wins the fight against guys twice his size is more fantastical and retarded than his exploding fulminate attack. This show is written for nerds to mentally identify with Walt and imagine themselves as powerful heroes. Like the dorks that watch Harry Potter or Batman. Only a complete loser who has never been in a fight does anything but roll their eyes at that scene. When Tony Soprano beat the piss out of people it was authentic looking because Gandolfini was 6'1" 250lbs. Walt becomes Heisenberg but his physicality is always Mr Rogers and never Scarface.
I don't think those are signs that Walt is a psychopath who enjoys violence, I think they are sign of a man who feels he has nothing to lose anymore, and it foreshadows how much further down that path he's going to be willing to go later on.
He does have things to lose. His life to the cartel before cancer. His family. Cartel hitters literally invade his home multiple times. Mike wires his home up with microphones. He is kidnapped from his home multiple times by cartel heads at gunpoint. He never once "feels like he has nothing to lose" hence his extreme fights against Gus and Jack and even Gretchen and Elliott. Because his family's lives are in danger. And the money he wants to give them is always in danger of being seized by the FBI.

There is not a single moment on the show where Walt has nothing to lose. In the finale he has to carefully drive from his hiding place in New Hampshire all the way back to ABQ without being arrested or pulled over. One because he is a fugitive. Two because he is carrying $10million and an illegally purchased M60. That money is for his family and he has it to lose. The machine gun is for Jack and his gang for stealing his money. And he has his revenge to lose as well.

Walt never really acts careless or reckless on his own on purpose. He takes stupid measures against Gus early because he is so out of his depth in the cartel game has no idea what he is doing. Gus and Mike and Hank are the ones who are careless. Because Walt outlives them all and takes care of his family. Hank leaves behind a legacy as a failed DEA agent. Gus dies to a crippled Salamanca and all Los Pollos Restaurants are closed down (El Camino deleted scene). And Mike leaves nothing to his family.
 
Late and gay, but re: Fring's past in Chile, I only remember a quick exchange where it's stated that there's no record of him before he entered Mexico, possibly as a consequence of the sloppy record-keeping of Pinochet's regime. Is a connection to the Chilean military alluded to elsewhere?
 
I think a lot of people forgot (including myself) that after the second time he deals with Tuco (Season 1 finale, opening of Season 2) the first thing he does is calculate how much is family is going to need to be ok (not rich, not millionaires, just ok without him), puts it at 11 weeks, and says that immediately after that they stop. And they're only going to do it in public places from now on to avoid any risk of putting themselves in danger.

That's not the behavior of a man who is crazy with ego, a man who is after money, or a man who, in his own words being listened to the FBI later on 'I did it all for myself, because I wanted to'.

They are the words of a man who genuinely cares for his family, and wants to be out of this as soon as he can with the bare minimum he feels he is responsible to give them now that he's dying and he won't be able to provide for the rest of his life.

Now, he chose to do it through producing drugs, which you might claim is evil unless you're a libertarian/very socially liberal, but it's not the behavior of a bad or an evil man.

Objectively, I think that Walt was a better man than Saul, and maybe all the way to end because, as Saul said to the court and meant it, he personally enjoyed it, he did it all to make millions of dollars, and Walter would never have been able to achieve anything if it wasn't for him.

They tried to give him a redemption arc where he takes responsibility (and how much of that is redemption, now that he's a star in prison, doesn't have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life, and finally got the approval of Kim he was looking for?), but yeah I think that ultimately Saul was a far worse person than Walt, even though he is more likable because of his personality.
yea i truly dont believe he was doing it from the start for him. i believe he wanted to kill himself in the most explosive way possible and make money while he does it, then around cancer man is where he starts getting a thrill out of it (which is the same episode where they thought "what's the twist we can do? what if he isnt doing it for his family?)
He tricked Kim into comming by pretending he would push howard's death on her.
yea i was just thinking he had from learning she confessed to his second convo with bill on the plane to think it over, and he said to kim "we're too smart to throw away our lives for this". so after finding out she did that kind of surprised him a lot. it was very rushed tho

finally, after all this bullshit, all the mainstream media lies, all the reaction channel dogshit and video essay morons we finally get a take from someone respectable: Dog Walker likes Better Call Saul more than Breaking Bad
 
finally, after all this bullshit, all the mainstream media lies, all the reaction channel dogshit and video essay morons we finally get a take from someone respectable: Dog Walker likes Better Call Saul more than Breaking Bad
Oh thank God. Doug made it official. Breaking bad officially sucks, and better call saul is better. Bravo Doug
 
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I haven’t watched Better Call Saul in years since I was under the impression that American TV was lacking in the soul department. Now, it looks like I have to rewatch it again from the beginning,

Maybe I'm just uncultured but what even is worth watching not made in America? Pretty much all I watch is every HBO show (Wire, Sopranos, Sucession, Barry, Curb) its always sunny, Mad Men, Fargo, Louie, Twin Peaks, Seinfeld, Frasier, simpsons, South park, most of the adult swim shows etc.


I guess the office UK and some anime is the only foreign stuff I like. Maybe old monty python
 
I didn't watch the last BB season, but I saw Walt as having basically no choice from beginning to the penultimate season end, at least up to the nuclear option that he could turn himself in and at least get his family to witness protection program while he is most likely executed in jail, the closest exit point was sacrificing Jessie to stay in Gus's good favours and he did not do it out of his love for Jesse.

Walt seemed to get broken down by constantly needing to make bad decisions to survive, which exacerbated his worse traits and made him imagine he was a badass.
 
Maybe I'm just uncultured but what even is worth watching not made in America? Pretty much all I watch is every HBO show (Wire, Sopranos, Sucession, Barry, Curb) its always sunny, Mad Men, Fargo, Louie, Twin Peaks, Seinfeld, Frasier, simpsons, South park, most of the adult swim shows etc.


I guess the office UK and some anime is the only foreign stuff I like. Maybe old monty python
For me, I’m willing to argue that classic cinema from Hong Kong, Russia and even old cartoons from the 70’s to 90‘s in America were the best for me. But to add to your last point, I also think Faulty Towers is another good choice. Though, it’s too bad BBC essentially removed most of their episodes from their streaming service due to “cancel culture” reasons.
 
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Maybe I'm just uncultured but what even is worth watching not made in America? Pretty much all I watch is every HBO show (Wire, Sopranos, Sucession, Barry, Curb) its always sunny, Mad Men, Fargo, Louie, Twin Peaks, Seinfeld, Frasier, simpsons, South park, most of the adult swim shows etc.


I guess the office UK and some anime is the only foreign stuff I like. Maybe old monty python
You really need to get into UK tv in that case. Check out my thread on 2000’s british shows for a start. Only Royle Family, Office and Extras along with a couple others are “kino” like most of what you listed - and a lot of the stuff im into is super lowbrow like bo selecta - but i’d definitely recommend all of it
 
Maybe I'm just uncultured but what even is worth watching not made in America? Pretty much all I watch is every HBO show (Wire, Sopranos, Sucession, Barry, Curb) its always sunny, Mad Men, Fargo, Louie, Twin Peaks, Seinfeld, Frasier, simpsons, South park, most of the adult swim shows etc.


I guess the office UK and some anime is the only foreign stuff I like. Maybe old monty python
Line of Duty is dead good up to the very final episode. Hopefully there is a 7th series to answer a lot of the questions raised and improve that shit ending.
 
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