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- Aug 28, 2019
Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!
- Thread starter Niachu
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
Not to mention Saber acts so childish and contradicts her characterization in the VN/FSN overall. Saber in Zero acts like a childish moron who wants to have fun and fight honorably when in SN she had to have a whole date with Shirou to appreciate fun while in Zero she just has goofy moments driving with Irisviel. It honestly wouldn't be so bad if Saber in Zero was replaced with a servant more befitting of that personality.
Also the Gilles bromance was so amazing and the funniest thing Zero had.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
Finished Eureka Seven.
What is the meaning behind the "Seven" part of the title though? I still don't understand that.
Couldn't really help but feel the whole thing with Dewey killing himself and the whole thing with Eureka's necklace could have been better foreshadowed or presented. Kinda confused me for a bit. One of the little issues the show has is that it seems to hold back on explaining a lot of aspects about the show until the subject can't really be avoided. Which, to be fair, I can understand why they would do that, as dumping exposition during the first few episodes of a show can be rather annoying, but I think this show went a bit too far in the other direction. Leading me to wonder why the adults didn't really explain to Renton about certain things earlier on. Unless I missed something.
Besides that though, the show's pretty damn good. Pretty much everything revolving around Renton and Eureka was just precious, especially during the show's second half. Seeing Eureka go from a monotone girl with barely any concept of love beyond what she feels for her kids to someone who laughs, smiles, jokes around and wanting to do everything she can to love and support Renton is satisfying to see. Renton even goes through quite a bit of growing as well, going from an idealistic and whiny kid to a strong and determined young man. And of course, the ending sequence was just as pretty and emotional as I remember it being.
Music is also pretty fantastic all the way through.
Besides that though, the show's pretty damn good. Pretty much everything revolving around Renton and Eureka was just precious, especially during the show's second half. Seeing Eureka go from a monotone girl with barely any concept of love beyond what she feels for her kids to someone who laughs, smiles, jokes around and wanting to do everything she can to love and support Renton is satisfying to see. Renton even goes through quite a bit of growing as well, going from an idealistic and whiny kid to a strong and determined young man. And of course, the ending sequence was just as pretty and emotional as I remember it being.
Music is also pretty fantastic all the way through.
What is the meaning behind the "Seven" part of the title though? I still don't understand that.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
I am intrigued.
Akumaten
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2018
I would like to know myself. One interpretation I saw through a fanart was the seven forms Eureka goes through from her discovery and working on LFO development to the last form in Episode 50.
PS1gamenwatch
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2015
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
The best character in Fate has to be this guy.
Kotomine Kirie, an absolute unit of a villain. A man of god who’s a self aware psychopath and just baller with his speeches and fights… In heavens feel.
It’s funny, now that I think about it. His role in Fate is shit because he’s a cartoon villain. He’s every generic bad guy priest you’ve ever seen and he barely has any good fights. Just lets a kid rail him in the heart with a knife after throwing a ball of magic poop at him. And in Unlimited blade works, he gets shafted pretty dam hard, but in Heavens Feel? He dominates the entire dam route. It’s an amazing turnaround and it’s probably one of the best narrative shifts Nasu’s ever done.
In heavens feel we get a look behind of the curtain of what makes this guy tick, why he is the way he is. And it is one of the most beautifully sad and dark story’s I've ever read. Im a little biased sure, but he’s a man who has it all, has done everything correct, followed god to the core of his life, and yet he feels nothing… until he sees another human being in pain.
And the worst part is, he knows its wrong. For the better part of his life he’s searched for something to fill that void. He’s asked himself and god the question of why he’s like this. He’s had a family, served his church, served his father, He’s tried everything he could to be a relatively good person until Fate zero . Then he receives a push from gill to fall over the edge and embrace his evil sadistic streak.
And yet.. he still believes in god. He even still serves god, in his own twisted way. There’s something so interesting about his very mindset and mentality to life. People say Shirou’s a robot, but Kotomine? He’s a sadistic religious Data by comparison.
Heavens feel really twists everything around by giving him a shit ton of screentime and aligning him for most of the route with the hero’s objectives. His endgoal is evil, his means are ruthless, but he is just so dam likeable I couldn’t help but love him. Shirou even comes to understand and pity him a little bit towards the end.
The movies could have given him more screen time for sure. it was almost kinda insulting how he barely had that many scenes in the first two., but I sympathize with Ufotable because it would be hard to animate the HOUR long conversations Shiroh has with him in the church. I would totally listen to an entire two hour movie of Joji Nakata
doing a religious sermon and call it time well spent, but pacing must be maintained. The important thing is they did a fantastic job with him in the final movie, and I dug the unique take on the final battle they had. It’s not a flashy kickass final duel like the VN, its presented as more a tragedy where they are equally matched, and I liked that.
I kinda wish they would do more with him, but I understand he’s probably incredibly difficult to write for, So they just have him do cameos for the most part, Although his appearance in Fate illya was awesome.
Of course he would find happiness as a ramen chef in a bad future. He disappears from the narrative way too early though. I know he has no reason to tag along with the good guys in their quest to save the universe, but it’s a little anticlimactic for him to basically say “fuck it” and ride a dirt bike out of town. (hilarious as it was.)
I think he’s got a really interesting role in Fate grand order though. It was pretty batshit and weird
but I think he’s not technically evil in that one, which is cool.
My one wish is they pull off a Holy church version of "Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II" and have him be part of it, so they can fleshes out that part of world more. The church as a whole is a very underdeveloped part of the franchise and really deserves some love. They have the best lore but mostly exist to look cool in the background and deliver exposition. They need to get somebody like Rin Fujiki from Vatican miracle examiner to go hardcore and make some story’s. Kotimine is such a huge badass and he’s only considered above average compared to everybody else. They’ve got an entire black ops group dedicated to killing vampires. Why don’t we have more story’s on that?
The one thing about Kiri that never made sense to me, was the bit in fate with all the dead orphan’s in his basement. It’s just way too dam on the nose and I think it really lessens him as a character. My idea of him is a guy who tries to find excuses to serve his wants while serving god, or at the very least somebody who takes pleasure in fucking with people in elaborate ways before destroying them. Im glad the other routes ignore it.
Also its presented as something of an open secret in the fandom that Gil was going brokeback mountain on Kotomine. That’s not strictly speaking canon is it? Come to think of it, was anything in their lives in the period between regular fate and zero touched upon ?
Kotomine Kirie, an absolute unit of a villain. A man of god who’s a self aware psychopath and just baller with his speeches and fights… In heavens feel.
It’s funny, now that I think about it. His role in Fate is shit because he’s a cartoon villain. He’s every generic bad guy priest you’ve ever seen and he barely has any good fights. Just lets a kid rail him in the heart with a knife after throwing a ball of magic poop at him. And in Unlimited blade works, he gets shafted pretty dam hard, but in Heavens Feel? He dominates the entire dam route. It’s an amazing turnaround and it’s probably one of the best narrative shifts Nasu’s ever done.
In heavens feel we get a look behind of the curtain of what makes this guy tick, why he is the way he is. And it is one of the most beautifully sad and dark story’s I've ever read. Im a little biased sure, but he’s a man who has it all, has done everything correct, followed god to the core of his life, and yet he feels nothing… until he sees another human being in pain.
And the worst part is, he knows its wrong. For the better part of his life he’s searched for something to fill that void. He’s asked himself and god the question of why he’s like this. He’s had a family, served his church, served his father, He’s tried everything he could to be a relatively good person until Fate zero . Then he receives a push from gill to fall over the edge and embrace his evil sadistic streak.
And yet.. he still believes in god. He even still serves god, in his own twisted way. There’s something so interesting about his very mindset and mentality to life. People say Shirou’s a robot, but Kotomine? He’s a sadistic religious Data by comparison.
Heavens feel really twists everything around by giving him a shit ton of screentime and aligning him for most of the route with the hero’s objectives. His endgoal is evil, his means are ruthless, but he is just so dam likeable I couldn’t help but love him. Shirou even comes to understand and pity him a little bit towards the end.
The movies could have given him more screen time for sure. it was almost kinda insulting how he barely had that many scenes in the first two., but I sympathize with Ufotable because it would be hard to animate the HOUR long conversations Shiroh has with him in the church. I would totally listen to an entire two hour movie of Joji Nakata
doing a religious sermon and call it time well spent, but pacing must be maintained. The important thing is they did a fantastic job with him in the final movie, and I dug the unique take on the final battle they had. It’s not a flashy kickass final duel like the VN, its presented as more a tragedy where they are equally matched, and I liked that.
I kinda wish they would do more with him, but I understand he’s probably incredibly difficult to write for, So they just have him do cameos for the most part, Although his appearance in Fate illya was awesome.
Of course he would find happiness as a ramen chef in a bad future. He disappears from the narrative way too early though. I know he has no reason to tag along with the good guys in their quest to save the universe, but it’s a little anticlimactic for him to basically say “fuck it” and ride a dirt bike out of town. (hilarious as it was.)
I think he’s got a really interesting role in Fate grand order though. It was pretty batshit and weird
He gets possessed by Rasputin and tears out Leonardo da vinchi’s heart
My one wish is they pull off a Holy church version of "Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II" and have him be part of it, so they can fleshes out that part of world more. The church as a whole is a very underdeveloped part of the franchise and really deserves some love. They have the best lore but mostly exist to look cool in the background and deliver exposition. They need to get somebody like Rin Fujiki from Vatican miracle examiner to go hardcore and make some story’s. Kotimine is such a huge badass and he’s only considered above average compared to everybody else. They’ve got an entire black ops group dedicated to killing vampires. Why don’t we have more story’s on that?
The one thing about Kiri that never made sense to me, was the bit in fate with all the dead orphan’s in his basement. It’s just way too dam on the nose and I think it really lessens him as a character. My idea of him is a guy who tries to find excuses to serve his wants while serving god, or at the very least somebody who takes pleasure in fucking with people in elaborate ways before destroying them. Im glad the other routes ignore it.
Also its presented as something of an open secret in the fandom that Gil was going brokeback mountain on Kotomine. That’s not strictly speaking canon is it? Come to think of it, was anything in their lives in the period between regular fate and zero touched upon ?
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- Joined
- Mar 26, 2020
Reminds me of the chat between these two:
He's a kind of person who goes through the motions of his vocation and is only pushing through it based on the value of his vocation's prestige.
Shining Wit
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2021
No matter how bad Zero is, at least it isn't Apocrypha
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
Yeah, Kirei Kotomine is probably one of my favorite villains in all of anime based on Zero alone and part of the reason I despised UBW so much is how it just killed him off like a bitch and made him look extremely weak and worthless. I need to watch those Heaven's Feel movies sometime soon.
Is it possible for Ken Akamatsu to be based despite his degeneracy?
I am conflicted.
Nigger, how do you go from basically inventing the modern harem anime, selling your own hentai at comiket and writing about middle school girls simping over a 9 year old to THIS?
Is it possible for Ken Akamatsu to be based despite his degeneracy?
I am conflicted.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
Not entirely. While he is going though the motions, there is a hidden desire to be more then that, serve god and do better. It's just buried under a more primal desire to feel alive I think. He never stopped wanting to ask god why he is the way he is. Ultimately the entire point of Heavens feel for him is to try to answer this question in a roundabout way.
His role in the UBW VN was even more reduced if you can believe it, they actually added more scenes to the anime to expand on what he was doing.
Heavens feel is excellent. I never understood fate's popularity until I read that route. It's got the most intensity out of all of them and reminds me more of Nasu's work on Tsukhime. He used to be really kickass before all the convoluted servant shit.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
Is everyone in agreement that the HF movies are good? cause if so, I'll watch them within the week.
I didn't even know they were all out until people started mentioning it here.
How would you rate it compared to the VN?
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
It keeps the soul of it. There's cut stuff of course, but I consider it better then UBW in both adaptions. I think the worst cut scene is probably the one were Kotomine just straight up tells shirou what happened in Fate Zero.
Ultimately it is my favorite work in the fate franchise and I whole heartily recommend it.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
Definitely the strongest of the adaptations. Shirou feels much more human in it and much less like a self-sacrificing plank of wood, in large part because he has some explicitly defined motivations this time around.
wtfNeedSignUp
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I didn't like it. A lot of the impact of scenes is lost from reading the VN, and the fight scenes just feel like an explosion of particle effects than actually choreographed set pieces.
Is it weird to think Prisma Ilya had some of the best fight scene adaptions in the series?
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
In comparison to UBW it definitely feels like it does Shirou justice and improves on some characterization of Sakura. However the films cut a lot of stuff out and really cut out the depth of most of the characters (Worst cases of it being Kirei and Illya), it also seems to really feel rushed in the third movie with the second one feeling the best of the three. The first adds a really stupid fight scene.
Then there’s the third movie which bastardized the best fight in the entire franchise
Vapewizard
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2019
Oh, that's a shame. I haven't watched the movies and it's been a long time since I played the VN but I remember that fight as being some of the most metal shit I've ever read.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
I kind of wish UBW had gotten the movie only treatment and HF had gotten the series. HF of all the routes would have benefitted from the additional breathing room.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
I mean UBW had a movie and I don't think after that, they were willing to risk it.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
I really like that bastardization though. It felt interesting and unique the way they did it. In the original it's more of a heroic endurance test, as kotomine would have won if he had more time. Whereas in the movie its an even fight that's more solemn and serious.
I respected the way they handled it, even if I wanted more. The servant fights more then made up for it.