Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

2: Russia sides with the Donbass seperatists (Who inarguably have the same right to self determination as The Ukraine itself does. I think it's really silly to insist that Donetsk/Lugansk are retarded banana republics that are entirely fabricated by Russia. Russia obviously support the rebels, and are doing a significant majority of the legwork, but they're not a wholly manufactured movement.)

Thing is, as someone has already mentioned, Russia has an egg on their face in this regard with Chechnya. Didn't respect their choice then, wouldn't let it slide if anyone else tried either.
It's opportunism on their part to justify biting a piece off Ukraine.

Whoever wrote that has absolutely no idea how formal letters are written in the civil service. The paper is wrong, that letterhead isn't remotely correct, the date would be below the recipient address, there would be a bunch of little QR codes and serial numbers in various spots. The linguistic form is absolutely wrong. I could go on and on...

I've received a lot of official letters in my time, for various reasons that I shan't go into. I could write the national government house style in my sleep.

Didn't this happen before? I'm having a deja vu. Definitely remember a document Russians just pulled from the web, ending up with a low effort fake full of mistakes.

 

[St.Davis]

Chimping out at its neighbours because they might provide competition so you wont have a monopoly any more isn't exactly an amazing argument. I doubt anyone making this argument would make the same justification for the US doing it in the middle east.

You don't have to agree with either. You can understand why someone does something without having to support them doing so. Again, though, this is a facet of the conflict; not the whole picture.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Nuclear deterrent puts all these worries to rest, the security argument is a goddamn copout as far as I'm concerned.

The nuclear deterrent deters nation-states. NGOs of any size don't really care about it, since they're nimble enough to maneuver on their own - but even then, it also doesn't deter historical anxieties.

Consider what Russia would gain if it won the war in Ukraine: it would need a massive military occupation force to pacify the population, most of the infrastructure is currently in ruins (Russia really doesn't have the capital on its own to rebuild Ukraine, given the state of its own infrastructure), and any attempts it would make at profiting off of the country's resources would doubtlessly face sabotage. But it does gain breathing room.

Given the costs of Empire as well as the fact that Empire doesn't really function well within a global system of commerce and information, nostalgia alone doesn't make sense as motivation, and Russia's relentless gobbling up of its neighbors has coincided with it extending outwards towards natural defensive barriers like mountains, seas, etc. Consider that the US quite values its natural border with Mexico having a river and a desert across wide swaths of it, despite the fact that the countries haven't been at war in about 170 years.

 

[St.Davis]

Thing is, as someone has already mentioned, Russia has an egg on their face in this regard with Chechnya. Didn't respect their choice then, wouldn't let it slide if anyone else tried either.
It's opportunism on their part to justify biting a piece off Ukraine.

Sure, I agree. It's definitely opportunism. The Donbass does want to secede from The Ukraine though, and my argument was regarding them and their right to self-determine, not whether Russia looks hypocritical helping them or not.

 

[Delicious Diversity]

The question is whether the government being able to just stomp on you like that is justifiable. It's the reality of the situation, but is that reality something you want to support?

What I think about it doesn't matter too much. In my country, we let Scotland vote to become independent (they voted not to), but that was done through legal channels. That was not the case in Donbass. Guys with guns occupied government buildings and there is only once response to that - military action. Any government would do that same. Same deal with Chechnya, or with the southern states in the US, and so on.

I'm not opposed in principle to Donbass separatism, but I understand that if armed insurgents start trying to assert their control and attacking government property, the central government is going to respond to that. Any state will do what it must to protect its territorial integrity. Maybe if the people of Donbass had pushed to secede through legal means, things would've played out differently.

But given that the separatists instead chose a violent course, and with Russian assistance, I assume they did not see a peaceful secession movement as a viable option. If you want to use force to get your way, expect others to use force to resist you undermining their interests and lawful authority.

 

[Glowing In The Streets]

ARTICLE 5
ARTICLE 5
ANAL JIHAD AGAINST UKRAINE
ARTICLE 5
ARTICLE 5

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

It's opportunism on their part to justify biting a piece off Ukraine.

And who the fuck cares?

This shit should have been solved a decade ago when Russia invaded Georgia, but the Eurozone was too busy licking Their own assholes to do anything about an obvious threat. Mitt Romney got laughed off stage in a debate because he suggested Russia was a threat.

 

[Beak Thing]

Not only is Ukraine insistent that it wasn’t them, they are actively trying to find something to prove that it was fired by Russia. Like nigga, just shut the fuck up and apologize. NATO won’t do anything to you anyway.
View attachment 3875271

There's all kinds of gayops and false info being used by both sides since they're at war, Ukraine is no different in that regard. I just disregard it until there's some kind of confirmation from an external source.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

So sorry. No nuclear war this week. Maybe next week.

Fuck. I’m starting to regret that end of the world orgie…

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Ha, NAFO trannies are upset over all the recent Lancet drone footage.


Meanwhile Lancet goes vrrrrr.

Lancet meets BM-21 Grad

Lancet meets S-300

Lancet meets 155mm CEASAR artillery system

Meanwhile Andriy Yermak is threatening Germany via emoji. Now that Ukraine bombed Poland and didn't even have to apologize, Germany is next.

 

[AnonymousKot]

I still think Ukraine should have just cut the separatist-run regions loose while they had the chance.

Granted, you don't wanna fall into the vicious cycle of appeasement, but if a certain region is only causing you trouble, you should consider washing your hands of them.

Elon had the right idea: UN-supervised elections. If the separatist regions don't wanna be part of Ukraine, then don't make them stay. They have a right to self-determination, no matter what globohomo says.

It would have been political suicide, besides, no country will accept any border changes now as it would cause far more problems to the current world order, nations like somaliland are not recognised because it will anger somolia and might encourage other countries minorities to secede, something that most nations don't want or at least don't want to deal with the consequence

This is all very reductive, and I definitely disagree. There's been more than enough autistic back and forth though, and I'm not really interested in slapfighting about it.

The Ukraine conflict has multiple facets;

1: Russia wanted Crimea back. (And as far as I can tell Crimea did/does genuinely prefer being a part of Russia.)

2: Russia sides with the Donbass seperatists (Who inarguably have the same right to self determination as The Ukraine itself does. I think it's really silly to insist that Donetsk/Lugansk are retarded banana republics that are entirely fabricated by Russia. Russia obviously support the rebels, and are doing a significant majority of the legwork, but they're not a wholly manufactured movement.)

3: The Ukraine wishes to maintain it's national sovereignity/borders. (Though they're being used as a proxy by the West in exactly the same fashion as Donbass is being used by Russia)

4: The west is using The Ukraine as a proxy vehicle to fight against Russia. We don't care about The Ukraine or any of the shit they say, it's convenient.

5: The Biden administration and other US glowniggers have a bunch of fingers in pies in The Ukraine. Hunter Biden, for example.



The main thing to me, as I've expressed before, is that I simply do not wish to waste money that my country could be using to benefit me/my countrymen on a conflict that I have literally no stake in. Whether or not Russia is "Justified" in waging war against The Ukraine is ultimately immaterial, it isnt and shouldn't be my problem.

As fair as your point is, lawmakers and bureaucrats will do what they believe is in the interest of the nation (or their own pockets)

 

[St.Davis]

Consider what Russia would gain if it won the war in Ukraine: it would need a massive military occupation force to pacify the population, most of the infrastructure is currently in ruins (Russia really doesn't have the capital on its own to rebuild Ukraine, given the state of its own infrastructure), and any attempts it would make at profiting off of the country's resources would doubtlessly face sabotage. But it does gain breathing room.

To be fair; My expectation is that if/when Russia wins this war (And I still expect them to eventually) even if they roll through the entirety of The Ukraine and attain total victory, I don't think they'll annex the place, partially for the reasons you're suggesting here.

I expect the Donbass, Crimea, and a connecting strip of land between the two will be annexed, with the rest being left with The Ukraine. Maybe they'd take the whole coast though, I'm not sure.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

The nuclear deterrent deters nation-states. NGOs of any size don't really care about it, since they're nimble enough to maneuver on their own - but even then, it also doesn't deter historical anxieties.

Consider what Russia would gain if it won the war in Ukraine: it would need a massive military occupation force to pacify the population, most of the infrastructure is currently in ruins (Russia really doesn't have the capital on its own to rebuild Ukraine, given the state of its own infrastructure), and any attempts it would make at profiting off of the country's resources would doubtlessly face sabotage. But it does gain breathing room.

Given the costs of Empire as well as the fact that Empire doesn't really function well within a global system of commerce and information, nostalgia alone doesn't make sense as motivation, and Russia's relentless gobbling up of its neighbors has coincided with it extending outwards towards natural defensive barriers like mountains, seas, etc. Consider that the US quite values its natural border with Mexico having a river and a desert across wide swaths of it, despite the fact that the countries haven't been at war in about 170 years.

Russia has a myriad of more productive things to focus on, problems that need fixing. I believe that the Illusion of military strength it had and nuclear deterrent would've been sufficient to buy enough time to grow stronger and more formidable to stave off future threats for real if they were to happen, there was no immediate danger.
But you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Sure, I agree. It's definitely opportunism. The Donbass does want to secede from The Ukraine though, and my argument was regarding them and their right to self-determine, not whether Russia looks hypocritical helping them or not.

Much like vegan dog wants carrots. I understand that you're trying to find a compromise, but I just don't see it happening at this point. The only valid argument for it is to stop bloodshed, everything else is moot, too much bullshit happened.

 

[UmQasaan]

There's all kinds of gayops and false info being used by both sides since they're at war, Ukraine is no different in that regard. I just disregard it until there's some kind of confirmation from an external source.

I mean eventually NATO has to tell them to shut the fuck up right? They are directly disagreeing with their Allies in an attempt to pull them into a world war.

 

[St.Davis]

What I think about it doesn't matter too much. In my country, we let Scotland vote to become independent (they voted not to), but that was done through legal channels. That was not the case in Donbass. Guys with guns occupied government buildings and there is only once response to that - military action. Any government would do that same. Same deal with Chechnya, or with the southern states in the US, and so on.

I'm not opposed in principle to Donbass separatism, but I understand that if armed insurgents start trying to assert their control and attacking government property, the central government is going to respond to that. Any state will do what it must to protect its territorial integrity. Maybe if the people of Donbass had pushed to secede through legal means, things would've played out differently.

But given that the separatists instead chose a violent course, and with Russian assistance, I assume they did not see a peaceful secession movement as a viable option. If you want to use force to get your way, expect others to use force to resist you undermining their interests and lawful authority.

I'd assumed that The Donbass had attempted to secede through "legal" means previously. I will admit that I'm not 100% informed on exactly what was done before the armed portion of the conflict began.

Incidentally: I wish that Scotland had left, the SNP are turning the place into a tumour, and we'd really not have lost anything meaningful. North Sea Oil is English, anyway.

As fair as your point is, lawmakers and bureaucrats will do what they believe is in the interest of the nation (or their own pockets)

I'd argue they only bother with the bracketed portion. Wasting taxpayer monies by sending them to eastern european shitholes isnt at all in my nation's interest.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

I mean eventually NATO has to tell them to shut the fuck up right? They are directly disagreeing with their Allies in an attempt to pull them into a world war.
View attachment 3875358

It's a reasonable demand. Following your own argument, they have a reason to shield Russia so they could just sweep it under the rug and call it a day.
Remember how hard Germany worked in order not to acknowledge that anything was happening at all. It's like that, but the entire NATO.

 

[Beak Thing]

I mean eventually NATO has to tell them to shut the fuck up right? They are directly disagreeing with their Allies in an attempt to pull them into a world war.

Not really, it won't cause any NATO nations to get involved because it's just words and there's absolutely nothing in this incident to justify any further response. Even if when all is said and done it did end up being Russian, it's still an obvious accident.

It's worthwhile to seed the idea that this is actually a Russian missile though, any time you make the other side have to waste their time countering it, it helps you a bit. Enough credulous people on both sides take everything at face value for these tactics to work. One weakness Russia faces is it doesn't have the kind of control over the information space and international media that NATO countries do.

Sort of like when some of these major media outlets push obviously false stories and then retract them. The point is to get the false information out there, retracting it is just a CYA.

 

[Grotesque Bushes]

Who says they were targeting anything? Ukraine is on its 12th wave of conscription, all the able-bodied men ran off long ago, so most likely the conscripts were either too old, too drunk, or too blind for the job in the first place. Another possibility is that the S-300 system was manned by foreign mercenaries, which could lead to a language barrier. Maybe their commanding officer asked them for a smoke and they thought he said "fire the missiles." Anything can happen in Banderastan nowadays.

How the fuck are you ceding cities that formally seceded and joined the Russian Federation in a series of democratic referrendums to that rabble? What are the armed forces doing that they can't fight off drunk retarded cripples?

 

[AnonymousKot]

Sure, I agree. It's definitely opportunism. The Donbass does want to secede from The Ukraine though, and my argument was regarding them and their right to self-determine, not whether Russia looks hypocritical helping them or not.

It wouldn't work, Donetsk and Lughansk only would suceed if they were both together and consisted of their claimed entire territory with sea access to mariupol, without them their economy would be fucked as they would have coal, but not enough industry or factory to make themselves viable independent state, it would've simply been an unofficial oblast of Russia. That and as the war have shown, both sides are interested in only fighting for their own states for some reason, Lughansk fighters aren't as willing to fight in or for Donetsk.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

How the fuck are you ceding cities that formally seceded and joined the Russian Federation in a series of democratic referrendums to that rabble? What are the armed forces doing that they can't fight off drunk retarded cripples?

Weird, most of the footage of Ukrainian soldiers I see shows young soldiers and men in their prime, huh.