Business Pixiv bans offensive art -- Including loli

[...]
Furthermore, the rules or policies of Brand Protection for Card Networks transactions for content that is patently offensive, unethical, or promote criminal activity; such as, by way of example and not limitation:
・Sexual exploitation of a minor
・Incest
・Bestiality
・Rape (or any other non-consensual sexual behavior)
・Non-consensual mutilation of a person or body part
[...]

決済を伴う取引に関するサービス共通利用規約改定の事前のお知らせとお願い

2022年12月15日（木）に、ピクシブ株式会社が提供するサービス共通利用規約を改定いたします。 このたびの改定は、BOOTH、pixivFANBOX、pixivリクエスト機能など決済を伴う取引…

www.pixiv.net

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Sure, the bullet points then.

> Why does the government having power already with a subpeona justify them installing spyware--

You think that condensing your bullshit solves the issue of you originating it in the first place?

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

If the feds wanted to, they could track your IRL purchases back to you, too-- with great ease, and without any of the provisions of the Patriot Act. Browsing tube sites on Incognito mode isn't protecting you from their surveillance, either. Any clearnet website with which you have a regularly used account already has your activity history that the feds can just subpoena if they wanted to.

If you want complete anonymity on the internet, there is ways to get that (Tor, VPNs, etc.) But nobody's arguing for complete anonymity. Yes, the feds could potentially track everything you do. But they can't because its impractical and would engender massive backlash. The internet is generally anonymous enough for most people unless you are doing something dangerous, illegal, or compromising.

None of this changes the fact that the way we treat access to porn online is unjustifiably different from how we treat it IRL.

Because they are completely different situation. In real life I have to physically walk into a store and show my physical I.D. Just the fact that I have to walk into an establishment where anyone can see me defeats any expectation of anonymity. Same with strip clubs where anyone can watch me walk in. And when I show my I.D., I show it to one person (the cashier), who has no interest in telling anyone else I walked in and bought it, because he wants my repeat customer-ship, and gains nothing from doing so (and could be held accountable if he blabs at the mouth). Other than that, there is no other record of my purchase if I use cash, and no record I was even there, barring security cameras, which no one will see. IDing yourself online is bad idea in even the best of circumstances, and would be even stupider with a porn site. Aside from a government agency simply demanding a porn site turn over is membership lists for whatever reason, you have the issue of leaks and hackers. When you turn over your private info to a site, you have no idea who has it, who's seeing it, and what the site is doing with it. There's just a far bigger risk. Hell, look at Kiwifarms for example. Everyone on here is encouraged to not dox themselves or give any personal info at all, at any time, We are even told to use a separate email not tied to any of our other real life accounts. Its mighty hypocritical to attack internet anonymity in this instance while making use of it just to browse this site.

I already made the point that being able to use a credit card is enough to prove that you're an adult, and there are porn sites that already have a paywall that indirectly achieves the goal of age verification.

And yet, this thread is about those very same payment processors threatening to refuse to do business with a porn site because of its content. What happens if payment companies refuse to work with porn sites at all?

You've presumed that age verification in this circumstance must mean that the government is performing it, but I never said that. It only has to involve porn sites being required by law to perform actual age verification.

It doesn't matter who's doing the verification. There's issues either way.

After all, when you buy beer, the cashier checking your ID isn't an agent of the state. It's just that it's his ass if law enforcement has reason to snoop around his establishment and it's found out that he sold alcohol to a minor.

1. Most porn sites aren't directly selling a product, and the ones that do already require financial information.
2. They aren't selling a physically harmful product.
3. Local law enforcement only cares if that physically harmful product causes a physically harmful problem, necessitating their involvement.

The reason that I or anybody else suggests age verification for internet porn is because there's already age verification for physical porn, because society at large ostensibly agrees that children shouldn't have access to porn at all. Is that "retard-proofing"? Is that enabling shitty parents to continue being shitty?

And in that case, asking for I.D. is the best way to prevent it because it is a physical product you have to physically get. And, even then, as has been pointed out by others in this thread, there is numerous ways around that issue that little boys have been finding forever. This is a digital product that can be gotten in innumerable ways on the internet, and no amount of I.D. verification will stop the proliferation of porn to minors on the internet, because the internet is simply too vast to control that reliably. The best defense, in this case, is in the home, through controlling the child's internet access. Because that is the easiest thing to control without inculcating authoritarian control over the internet.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

@The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

Because they are completely different situation.

Disagreed. Pornography doesn't cease to be pornography because it's on the internet-- the core issue is the same. What I have a problem with is the inconsistency inherent in not even trying to restrict internet pornography when we do so without controversy in literally every other venue that isn't the side of a river.

IDing yourself online is bad idea in even the best of circumstances, and would be even stupider with a porn site. Aside from a government agency simply demanding a porn site turn over is membership lists for whatever reason, you have the issue of leaks and hackers. When you turn over your private info to a site, you have no idea who has it, who's seeing it, and what the site is doing with it. There's just a far bigger risk.

Don't have to worry about being found on the membership list of a porn site if you never sign up. :rollsafe:

Given that we already ID ourselves if we want to buy or sell anything online, the only issue I'm seeing here is that another Ashley Madison-type leak would be embarrassing. The natural response to this is that nobody forced them to purchase the service, and they honestly probably shouldn't have.

At any rate, should I also believe that not even camgirls, OF content creators, et al. do real age verification when they register...

...hm.

Hell, look at Kiwifarms for example. Everyone on here is encouraged to not dox themselves or give any personal info at all, at any time, We are even told to use a separate email not tied to any of our other real life accounts. Its mighty hypocritical to attack internet anonymity in this instance while making use of it just to browse this site.

No, it's not, because using KF in a way where my identity isn't exposed involves me taking multiple steps to take my anonymity into my own hands, as is my prerogative. The person buying porn with their credit card isn't doing that to the extent of that purchase in the same way I don't do that to the extent of whatever purchases I make on Ebay-- as is our prerogative.

They could just not buy porn in the same way I could just not buy a bootleg PC game controller from Amazon that will vibrate itself to death in two weeks.

And yet, this thread is about those very same payment processors threatening to refuse to do business with a porn site because of its content. What happens if payment companies refuse to work with porn sites at all?

"What if they do the thing they they could do to porn sites at any time and have already done with sites like Pornhub?"

go defunct, lol

And, even then, as has been pointed out by others in this thread, there is numerous ways around that issue that little boys have been finding forever.

And as I had been saying before and after said people said anything about it, making kids hustle to see a nipple is categorically better the current state of affairs, where their Google results get inundated with a gorillion tube site links to the entire Backdoor Sluts series because they misspelled the name of their favorite online arcade in Google, and/or they're hooked on sissy hypno by age 9 before any reliable adult has been given a reason to suspect anything.

 

[Meth Until Death]

Even better-- your personal shame of having your identity tied to the porn you would wish to watch (which shouldn't exist because there's nothing wrong with it ) and/or your lack of trust in porn sites to safeguard your verification info will prevent you from watching porn altogether.

Literally no downsides, here.

I can see this system never being abused and used as a way to assassinate a person's character/falsely smear someone who challenges the status quo, cathedral, those in power etc etc.

 

[TheRedChair]

If they applied the same rules to the main site, there'd be almost nothing there, lol.

Pixiv is only bowing to MC/Visa because they're beholden to payments for Fanbox transactions since there's more liability on what artists draw there, as opposed to the general site, which doesn't handle financial incentives between buyers and artists. Therefore, the main site has less scrutiny. Fanbox content can be interpreted as intentionally drawing illegal stuff for pay (and thus may fall under certain laws and restrictions).

Yes and that is a fact. My take is another assault on the freedom to create things by the power of corporations dictating what is right and what should be seen.

One of the Artists that had to end his wonderful Manga was this guy. He is the collateral damage to this bullshit.

The Apothecary Will Make This Battered Elf Happy

A brief description of the manga The Apothecary Will Make This Battered Elf Happy: This manga has one page per chapter.

www.mangaread.org

There is ABOLUTELY nothing bad about this manga. It was really a cute, and refreshing story line without the "Hero gaining a harem" theme of late.

It's actually one of the better drawn mangas out there I've seen in a while. But because it drawn a certain way it (big titty elf with clothing on... big fucking deal, I've seen far worse) got tagged and the artist quickly rushed the manga to its completion.

Yes, there are some fucked up rags out there, just as there are fucked up Furries Running Discord.

But this also means that artists nowhere near loli-con level are going to be tagged as well.

And then lets not forget the "violence" part of illustration WILL ALSO BE TAGGED by all of these "Decency" clauses.

But like anything else this is WESTERN style corporations dictating what MORALITY IS.

This is a very very dangerous situation to be in.
This is what happening to this site. Corporations dictating MORALITY, trying to shut this site down.

Sooner or later you, the average person will be targeted on what you can say, what you can do, etc. You will be gatekept by those Gate Keepers for YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST.

In the End it is all about the money that WESTERN FINCANCE COMPANIES WIELD...

A very scary future that lies ahead.

 

[Atatata]

But because it drawn a certain way it (big titty elf with clothing on... big fucking deal, I've seen far worse) got tagged and the artist quickly rushed the manga to its completion.

Tbf pretty sure it was because the author was selling a graphic prequel about how the elf got battered.
Not that it's the worst out there or that its justified, but it had stuff that was on the list.

 

[X Prime]

Yeah, the linked story was fine, but I could imagine a prequel that showed enough detail would be against guidelines.

Not to mention, I'm not sure why you'd need to make such a prequel except to titillate some people with certain fetishes. The story stood fine without.

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

So it begins.. Western elites and companies take their moral crusade world wide.

 

[Ahriman]

I don't agree with payment processors being the purveyors of morality and good taste, but it appears that in this case, I'll make an exception.

And for all those in the thread pretending to be more virtuous than any regular CP consoomer because "they're just pixels on a screen lmao", you're not. Fuck off with your apologist bullshit.

 

[Ser Prize]

So it begins.. Western elites and companies take their moral crusade world wide.

It was sadly inevitable.

 

[Fluoxetine Man]

The big problem I have is the slippery slope and the fact people in positions of power who do child sex trafficking don't give a shit about loli/etc. art.

I doubt the Rotherham grooming gang had a collection Card Captor Sakura H-doujinshi, or that Epstein was a regular visitor to hentai sites, or that Brandon goes to /h/ on 4chan. This is just so the payment processors and the major (((players))) can say 'look at how virtuous we are! ' while the real nasty shit (like real cheese pizza and child grooming) goes under the radar.

As others have said, free speech is only as strong as its weakest link, and its easy to defend when it's something you agree with, like the right to say offensive things on a message board (and to point and laugh at men in dresses). But the real test of free speech is when you defend something you don't agree with. There's lots of art made on the internet I find disgusting and sick, but as long as real people (and animals) aren't being harmed, then you do you (just stay the hell away from me).

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

Given that the causes for this are literally stated by pixiv themselves to be western CC companies.. This is yet another reason why we need a financial services neutrality act. They are a core part of modern life and every bit as essential as water, phone and power services.. Particularly in a world moving more and more to digital money and services! Just as the water company can't decide that you have the wrong politics, or are doing something certain people don't like.. financial services like basic payment processing and payment services shouldn't be able to either. It also needs to include prohibitions on government and law enforcement from trying to make such services play money police as well. (legal protections) Sure, if they know something is illegal or are officially told such by law enforcement and do nothing, then fine, punish them.. but the idea that banks a CCs need to proactively police potential violations (under a system of basically "you should have known" etc) needs to die! When a court finds someone guilty or has probable cause, then they can force them to act. If the phone company isn't held to be responsible for crimes committed over or with the help of the phone, then neither should banks or CCs with payments and such.

 

[A-Stump]

This thread is a hive of pedophiles lmao

Don't clutch at the pearls of 'muh internet freedoms'. There's a reason why people have had such a hateboner for pixiv lately. It might have something to do with them hosting stuff like, IDK, fairly realistic depictions of BABIES being raped. You're either ignorant of the depth of the content they're after or on the very wrong side of the fence.

 

[Atatata]

Don't know if this was the case or if it was a cope, but I remember reading somewhere that the real reason was because there were massive AI dumps that would mix in actually actual cp.
Does anybody know anything about that?

 

[Super-Chevy454]

It was sadly inevitable.

Is it my imagination or I got the feeling then these western elites pratice double standard sincce loli bother them but they're a bit quiet with movies like Cuties? Besides, I hope they didn't throw a rock from a house of glass like that watchdog guy mentioned in another thread.

 

[Ser Prize]

Is it my imagination or I got the feeling then these western elites pratice double standard sincce loli bother them but they're a bit quiet with movies like Cuties? Besides, I hope they didn't throw a rock from a house of glass like that watchdog guy mentioned in another thread.

These are the people who say 'children can consent' in the same breath as '23 year olds are literal children with underdeveloped brains'.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Disagreed. Pornography doesn't cease to be pornography because it's on the internet-- the core issue is the same. What I have a problem with is the inconsistency inherent in not even trying to restrict internet pornography when we do so without controversy in literally every other venue that isn't the side of a river.

The core issue is the inherent danger of require identification to use online sites involving pornography and why that wouldn't actually be a great idea.

Don't have to worry about being found on the membership list of a porn site if you never sign up. :rollsafe:

go defunct, lol

If you don't like porn, just say you don't like porn and stop making roundabout stupid non-arguments.

Given that we already ID ourselves if we want to buy or sell anything online, the only issue I'm seeing here is that another Ashley Madison-type leak would be embarrassing. The natural response to this is that nobody forced them to purchase the service, and they honestly probably shouldn't have.

Most porn sites don't require you to pay for it or post private information to see it. There's a reason for that. You are literally saying that you want to force all porn sites to require people to dox themselves and give financial information, then when people point out the obvious issue, you just hand wave it in the laziest way possible, when you are the one trying to force this on other people.

They could just not buy porn in the same way I could just not buy a bootleg PC game controller from Amazon that will vibrate itself to death in two weeks.

People already don't buy porn. They go to free sites. Once again, you are the one trying to enforce this on everybody else.

And as I had been saying before and after said people said anything about it, making kids hustle to see a nipple is categorically better the current state of affairs, where their Google results get inundated with a gorillion tube site links to the entire Backdoor Sluts series because they misspelled the name of their favorite online arcade in Google, and/or they're hooked on sissy hypno by age 9 before any reliable adult has been given a reason to suspect anything.

Your solution doesn't fix that problem. Google results would still be inundated with porn sites and links. It would just be inundated to paid porn sites. And, even then, your "solution" has a million different ways around it.

No, it's not, because using KF in a way where my identity isn't exposed involves me taking multiple steps to take my anonymity into my own hands, as is my prerogative. The person buying porn with their credit card isn't doing that to the extent of that purchase in the same way I don't do that to the extent of whatever purchases I make on Ebay-- as is our prerogative.

As I said, most existing porn sites don't require payment to use currently. You are literally demanding that porn sites do, thus removing anonymity for their usership, while using a site that literally emphasizes you using that very same anonymity to protect yourself. Yes, you are being hypocritical asshat.

 

[AN/ALR56]

I knew as soon as they opened up a DIE division a few months ago this shit would happen. You may cheer now because you don't like loli, but eventually the banks and kikes in charge will sanitize everything because they find it slightly distasteful and might hurt their profit margins.

This, the retards cheering this don't perceive this.

This will trickle-down to guns blogs, right wing politics, art mocking homo-globalism, etc.
Enjoy the sanitized internet.
"OMG THEY DRAWING NAKED CHILDREN"
I couldn't give a fuck about it if it doesn't involve real kids, First ammendment, motherfuckers, if you don't like it, make a thread on the artist here.

 

[Slap47]

The banks controlling the internet caused recessions and hosted child traffickers, but they'll stop business with websites over hentai and slurs. People are fine with this.
View attachment 3870459

"Based" conservatives do not want a free internet. They just hate that liberals control it.

 

[alpha889boba]

"Based" conservatives do not want a free internet. They just hate that liberals control it.

Seems everyone forgot how much the neocons and republicans were in love with big tech when they realized they could harvest tons of private information on citizens during the Bush years.

Also look how quickly they got silent on Ye's banning when he went antisemitic.