Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Wormy]

"Oh yeah, White Wolf is super left-wing, they rape kids."

Well, Matt MacFarland anyway....

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

To maintain a copyright, you must enforce it rigorously. This is why so many IP holders have the "you need to contact us" provisions. If its is widely known you are not enforcing your copyright, and people are using what you created without license, you can lose your copyright.

This is actually not true. You can't lose your copyright via nonenforcement. Copyright is selectively enforced by its nature. This is why fan works (fan art, fan fiction, cosplay, cover songs, etc.) can even exist in the first place. Companies don't have to enforce it at every waking opportunity and most only do so if you try to make money off of their copyrighted material.

Its trademarks that can be lost for via non-enforcement. A company must always protect their trademark, or they risk losing it. As an extension, if a company's trademark becomes genericized, to the point where it just becomes a common term in general parlance, they can lose it that way as well. Nintendo risked this back in the 90s when "Nintendo" just became a generic name for any game console, no matter who made it. Its why Nintendo began encouraging the use of the term "game console" and discouraging the general use of their name.

 

[Argrabius]

What’s a good way to deal with a player that obsessively multiclasses at low levels other than saying fuck you i am the DM. (System is D&D 5e with Delta Green character sheets)

 

[Kane Lives]

What’s a good way to deal with a player that obsessively multiclasses at low levels other than saying fuck you i am the DM. (System is D&D 5e with Delta Green character sheets)

So what is the problem? Is he hogging the spotlight? Is he making long ass sheets and slowing everyone down because his turns take forever? Is it just a flavour issue? Are you concerned that he'd be effectively gimping himself in the long run?

 

[The Ugly One]

What’s a good way to deal with a player that obsessively multiclasses at low levels other than saying fuck you i am the DM. (System is D&D 5e with Delta Green character sheets)

"You are only allowed 2 classes per character, and you can't MC Warlock with anything else."

The end.

 

[Argrabius]

So what is the problem? Is he hogging the spotlight? Is he making long ass sheets and slowing everyone down because his turns take forever? Is it just a flavour issue? Are you concerned that he'd be effectively gimping himself in the long run?

The main problem is that in addition to gimping himself mid-long term he is stupid powerful in the early game. Normally I don’t mind Jagens as they are a cool way to weave the story into combat play and allow me to use a more dynamic range of enemies in early combat. The problem is that this campaign is to introduce 2 new players him included. I don’t want give bad impressions of the game by limiting him directly but I also don’t want the other player to feel irrelevant. And later on I don’t want the reverse to happen.

"You are only allowed 2 classes per character, and you can't MC Warlock with anything else."

The end.

This is now part of my rules
Honestly I think I will just say this, thinking about it again he either listens and stays or leaves, better to not have someone who wants to play against the DM rather than with them

 

[Kane Lives]

This is now part of my rules
Honestly I think I will just say this, thinking about it again he either listens and stays or leaves, better to not have someone who wants to play against the DM rather than with them

I'll suggest sitting him down first and explaining it to him in detail on the potential consequences of multiclassing. Emphasis on the gimping himself on the medium to long term bit because if he's a min-maxer as I suspect he is, then it will definitely grab his attention more than "muh fair play", which honestly doesn't sit well with most people.

I'll only save the "my table, my rules" bit only for the very end (ideally, you don't pull this out at all).

 

[Mr. Manchester]

This OGL shit show has been incredibly entertaining to watch. I would love to say I think this is going to screw over wizards and cause them to crash and burn but I've learned over the years to never underestimate the power of the pay pig. There is a certain class of people that see things on a phone screen and have to buy it without thinking, This includes the lefties who are squealing about OGL 1.1 right now, they'll find an excuse for why it's okay at some point.

I don't really give a shit either way though, my gaming stuff is solid and will be for quite some time. For now I'll just enjoy everyone throwing a tantrum. Really been enjoying every youtuber make a declaration of independence from Wizards too.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Really been enjoying every youtuber make a declaration of independence from Wizards too.

Can't wait to see 90% of them slinking right back to bitching at WotC while talking about their products when D&DOne comes out and everybody is talking about the changes.

I wish at least some of them had some kind of principles, but I know better than that.

 

[PaladinBoo]

Now we know why they wrote that Devils were no longer evil. It hit too close to home for the WotC and Hasbro's legal department.

Can't wait to see 90% of them slinking right back to bitching at WotC while talking about their products when D&DOne comes out and everybody is talking about the changes.

I wish at least some of them had some kind of principles, but I know better than that.

It is the same with video games. Look at all the people who bitch and complain over how monetize a game is or how bad a game was on launch and that they will never pre-order again. Only for them to buy a 20 dollar skin and pre-order again stating, "It will be different this time."
Gamers, both with table tops and video games, are, what Terry A. Davis would call, nigger cattle. They will consume whatever mindless goyslop that gets put out by these companies because they are obsessed with the product. They are fanatics and products like D&D and what not are the religion.

 

[King Dead]

That's why boycotts rarely work, if ever: there are just too many normies that are happy to go on consooming to affect any kind of major change, and even the most vocal boycott proponents will likely cave because the allure of the shiny new thing is simply too great to ignore. Here's another example of a boycott not lasting:


You can and should change your individual behavior if you feel that a company isn't providing you with the quality of products or services you're expecting, but you shouldn't expect others to do likewise. I haven't bought an EA game since ME3 proved to be garbage, though that hasn't been hard considering their output hasn't appealed at all.

WotC is definitely catching a fair bit of flak for this debacle, but I'd bet the suits are just hoping it'll all blow over once people move on to something else to get mad about. OneD&D or whatever isn't supposed to be out for well over another year, so that's plenty of time for the outrage machine to move on to new targets. It's hard for a crowd to remain mad for extended periods of time, so maybe that was the intent of putting this out so early: get the white-hot fury out of the way so that all that remains by the time 1.1 goes into effect is smoldering resentment. And if they do make some minor improvements to the license, they'll get some easy brownie points, but they'll probably try and keep as much of it intact as they can get away with.

Likely, the only thing that will change this going forward isn't a boycott, but a general sales slump like the 4e one people mentioned earlier. WotC (at their Hasbro overlords' direction) is attempting to squeeze a few more bucks out of creators, but they'll be strangling the marketplace at the same time. Not a good move.

 

[Ghostse]

This is actually not true. You can't lose your copyright via nonenforcement. Copyright is selectively enforced by its nature. This is why fan works (fan art, fan fiction, cosplay, cover songs, etc.) can even exist in the first place. Companies don't have to enforce it at every waking opportunity and most only do so if you try to make money off of their copyrighted material.

Its trademarks that can be lost for via non-enforcement. A company must always protect their trademark, or they risk losing it. As an extension, if a company's trademark becomes genericized, to the point where it just becomes a common term in general parlance, they can lose it that way as well. Nintendo risked this back in the 90s when "Nintendo" just became a generic name for any game console, no matter who made it. Its why Nintendo began encouraging the use of the term "game console" and discouraging the general use of their name.

Let me check on that. I know that copyright is one of the reasons Disney comes down as hard and fast on any fan projects like they do, so they can easily prove rigorous enforcement of their IP. It might be an international thing, where possibly some countries don't make a distinction.

What’s a good way to deal with a player that obsessively multiclasses at low levels other than saying fuck you i am the DM.

Yes; say "Fuck you and your shit, I am the goddamn DM".

Serious answer, though it seems like you've got yours already, would be do the 3.5 multiclass cap and XP penalty.

For anyone else with a powergamer:
In addtion to what @Kane Lives said about laying out the case for fucking himself over in the long term, let your power gamer know that when their build fizzles out and isn't the coolest anymore "My character is gimped" is not going to be counted as an excuse to roll a new one when they fiddled away the summer.

I had a powergamer who's go-to was that sort of bullshit. Make a character who was laser focused on the current series of combat encounters, and then say "I'm bored with X, I had an idea for Y and want to play that" after they were no longer the best at combat.
They ended up self-selecting before I called them on their bullshit, getting pissed off because 4e didn't let them shut down casters and they neglected soft skills for their class.

This OGL shit show has been incredibly entertaining to watch. I would love to say I think this is going to screw over wizards and cause them to crash and burn but I've learned over the years to never underestimate the power of the pay pig. There is a certain class of people that see things on a phone screen and have to buy it without thinking, This includes the lefties who are squealing about OGL 1.1 right now, they'll find an excuse for why it's okay at some point.

I don't really give a shit either way though, my gaming stuff is solid and will be for quite some time. For now I'll just enjoy everyone throwing a tantrum. Really been enjoying every youtuber make a declaration of independence from Wizards too.

Can't wait to see 90% of them slinking right back to bitching at WotC while talking about their products when D&DOne comes out and everybody is talking about the changes.

I wish at least some of them had some kind of principles, but I know better than that.

The OGL thing pissed me off because
1) Its going to cause issues with future OSR stuff until Wizards get their dicks smacked in court, and it'll probably kill off any attempts to get a 3e retro going.
and
2) As you said, people will bitch and then get right back to consooming. Corporations will only see more retarded paypigs giving in, and continue to do more heinous anti-consumer shit.

Now we know why they wrote that Devils were no longer evil. It hit too close to home for the WotC and Hasbro's legal department.

It is the same with video games. Look at all the people who bitch and complain over how monetize a game is or how bad a game was on launch and that they will never pre-order again. Only for them to buy a 20 dollar skin and pre-order again stating, "It will be different this time."
Gamers, both with table tops and video games, are, what Terry A. Davis would call, nigger cattle. They will consume whatever mindless goyslop that gets put out by these companies because they are obsessed with the product. They are fanatics and products like D&D and what not are the religion.

Yeah, the Star Wars thread here is over run with these morons.
They have watched Disney put out shitty movie after shitty movie for a decade, and then post their watch report to talk about the new line of toys.
Nigger, why do you think they keep doing this? Because of tards who have no personality over than consooming their product and getting excited for next product.

 

[Midwit]

Yeah, the Star Wars thread here is over run with these morons.
They have watched Disney put out shitty movie after shitty movie for a decade, and then post their watch report to talk about the new line of toys.
Nigger, why do you think they keep doing this? Because of tards who have no personality over than consooming their product and getting excited for next product.

I'll have you know the only piece of nuWars content I bought was Battlefront II when it was only a fiver on Origin, and that it was well worth the price of admission.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

@Ghostse

Let me check on that. I know that copyright is one of the reasons Disney comes down as hard and fast on any fan projects like they do, so they can easily prove rigorous enforcement of their IP.

That's just how Disney operates. Disney have always been anal about their IP. This goes all the way back to Walt himself. Reminds me of that famous story about how, at a company party, two Walt Disney Company employees played a funny little pornographic cartoon of Mickey that they showed off as a joke in front of their fellow animators, Walt included. Walt laughed with everybody else, then, later, gave the two animators their pink slips and told them to walk. The point of the story is to illustrate how the Walt Disney Company has always been highly protective of their works and go out of their way to police it, in any context. Why do you think IP laws are getting more fucked up, as the time limit for things to get put into the public domain keeps getting stretched longer and longer? That's primarily due to Disney's lobbying.

 

[PaladinBoo]

Likely, the only thing that will change this going forward isn't a boycott, but a general sales slump like the 4e one people mentioned earlier. WotC (at their Hasbro overlords' direction) is attempting to squeeze a few more bucks out of creators, but they'll be strangling the marketplace at the same time. Not a good move.

The only thing that will kill these companies or get them to change isn't boycotts or creating a "Fandom Menace" but apathy and indifference. It is only by no longer caring about a property anymore that these companies will lose money and be force to do a course correction. We will never see that though because a majority of humans are retarded nigger cattle whose only purposes in life is to consume and to coom. Case in point (and feel free to give me a negative rating) James Cameron's Avatar series is one of the most generic, pretentious, anti-humanist goyslop I have ever seen in my life yet it has made billions and is beloved by retards, especially by those living in developing nations and bugmen. Even self-professed conservatives who are anti-Green agenda and talk about what a dipshit Greta Thunberg is or how evil Bill Gates is go and see this movie multiple times and take their kids to see it. Which goes to show that there is no wining against these corporations or Hollywood. There are way too many docile nigger cattle who just live to consume and to coom and are perfectly happy eating whatever goyslop companies put in the trough.

 

[Ghostse]

The only thing that will kill these companies or get them to change isn't boycotts or creating a "Fandom Menace" but apathy and indifference. It is only by no longer caring about a property anymore that these companies will lose money and be force to do a course correction. We will never see that though because a majority of humans are retarded nigger cattle whose only purposes in life is to consume and to coom. Case in point (and feel free to give me a negative rating) James Cameron's Avatar series is one of the most generic, pretentious, anti-humanist goyslop I have ever seen in my life yet it has made billions and is beloved by retards, especially by those living in developing nations and bugmen. Even self-professed conservatives who are anti-Green agenda and talk about what a dipshit Greta Thunberg is or how evil Bill Gates is go and see this movie multiple times and take their kids to see it. Which goes to show that there is no wining against these corporations or Hollywood. There are way too many docile nigger cattle who just live to consume and to coom and are perfectly happy eating whatever goyslop companies put in the trough.

Cameron: I'm making an anti-whaling movie about how natives are at peace with nature and the whales.

Actual natives like the ones he's fellating: I'm from the Makah and I say kill them all!

Tribe wins major step toward resuming whaling off Washington

An administrative law judge has recommended that a Native American tribe in Washington state once again be allowed to hunt gray whales — a major step in its decades-long effort to resume the ancient practice

www.independent.co.uk

 

[anti SJW]

 

[Ghostse]

View attachment 4231990

Canon is gatekeeping, bigot.
Welcome to year zero.

 

[Brain Problems]

Canon is gatekeeping, bigot.
Welcome to year zero.

Wonder if the judge will accept Hasbro/WotC's "lived experiences" when it comes to patent trolling. We just need the Tolkien estate to wade into this to achieve maximum retardation.

 

[BlazikenLover]

"You are only allowed 2 classes per character, and you can't MC Warlock with anything else."

The end.

I saw a guy using more than two classes exacty once, I *think* he wished to get as many skill proficiencies and he willingly crippled itself for it. Multiclassing already puts you at a disadvantage unless you really know what you're doing, having levels in three classes even more so.
As for Warlock multiclasses, I haven't had one in ages, I believe I mostly saw fighter 1-2/warlock x because bladelock was total ass at the time. I am aware of the warlock/paladin-sorc shenanigans but thankfully never had to deal with them.