Serious LGBT Discussion

[AnOminous]

I think that is just a cop out so you can avoid admitting that you are wrong.

I think you're a firehose of autism and I'm not going to dance around in the splash unless I fucking well feel like it.

 

[DirkBloodStormKing]

You know, I've been questioning my sexuality again (it's always been kind of confusing). It's hard for me to figure out whether I'm straight, bisexual, or even the slight chance of being lesbian. Like, I feel like I should have it figured out already but I always go back to questioning myself and end up going back to square one. Like, how do people figure out this shit?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

There is a far bigger push for homosexual men and women to stay in the closet than there is for them to come out and be part of the LGBT community at large, this is true around the world as well as industrialized countries like the United States.

There is a good chance that you are right among some communitiees but I highly doubt that it is universal. Look at all the support that trans people get and say that people wouldn't want that while in an area with almost no anti trans pressure

There is no such thing as "LGBT propaganda" to force people into same sex relationships, in fact in general the entire point and message at large of the LGBT movement has been "It's none of your business, what we do in the bedroom won't effect you!".

That might have been the case 20-40 years ago but now it is very different. The LGBT movement is all about making conservatives do stuff that they don't want to do like baking same sex wedding cakes and using the right pronouns now. The media reinforces the LGBT status as a privileged class and then makes people want to join that classs

And the main reason why more people don't get married and have kids isn't because of "teh gheys" it's because getting married and having kids is expensive as sin.

That is not an issue. The issue is that people are taught to live a hedonistic lifestyle where they live beyond their means and don't have children in order maximize consumption. People in the 50s had all the children that they wanted and they had much lower incomes than people do now but this is changing the topic. The point is that someone who wants children will be pressured to go on HRT and never be able to have children because they rendered themselves infertile with it.

You know, I've been questioning my sexuality again (it's always been kind of confusing). It's hard for me to figure out whether I'm straight, bisexual, or even the slight chance of being lesbian. Like, I feel like I should have it figured out already but I always go back to questioning myself and end up going back to square one. Like, how do people figure out this shit?

I think that probably questioning it just makes it worse and you should decide from the beginning to just be heterosexual end of story, if you are aroused by women it doesn't matter because you are still heterosexual

EDIT: Anxiety just leads to more anxiety and in the end nothing comes from it

 

[Flustercuck]

You know, I've been questioning my sexuality again (it's always been kind of confusing). It's hard for me to figure out whether I'm straight, bisexual, or even the slight chance of being lesbian. Like, I feel like I should have it figured out already but I always go back to questioning myself and end up going back to square one. Like, how do people figure out this shit?

I understand how that can be, and it can take quite some time to figure it out. Some have difficulties figuring out themselves, others have difficulties accepting themselves, and then there's those who have problems with both.
Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll figure it out sooner or later

 

[Womacker]

Going back to the original post.

There really isn't an option, if you plan on having surgery to change your gender, it's an illness.

I'm not going to say my piece on transgender people, however, a ton of things are illnesses. Broken bones, the flu, and bipolar disorder are all illnesses of some sort. By saying this is not an illness, you are implying it is not an issue to the person with the problem. A doctors goal is to treat any and all illnesses a patient has to the best of their ability. By defining it as not an illness of some sort, you are allowing your opponents to say "oh? So that means this isn't that big of a deal for you then?"

People always scoff at the slippery slope concept, but transgender would feel it if by and large their cause is not considered an illness, because then you give your opponents the opportunity to make a completely valid case that healthcare shouldn't pay for reassignment. Because in their eyes, it isn't an illness, therefore it's just cosmetic surgery.


Edit: gender dysmorphia is flat out a mental illness. A more important goal should be to eliminate the stigma of mental illnesses. If you focus more on feels before reals with that, then you run the risk of seriously screwing yourself.

 

[AnOminous]

Going back to the original post.

There really isn't an option, if you plan on having surgery to change your gender, it's an illness.

Well, that or it's an elective surgery.

In one case, if it's actually therapeutically necessary to treat something that's actually wrong, it could be covered by insurance.

But if it's just tucute bullshit because you feel like it, you should damn well expect to pay for your own elective surgery with your own money. Because you don't fucking need it. At all.

 

[Womacker]

Well, that or it's an elective surgery.

In one case, if it's actually therapeutically necessary to treat something that's actually wrong, it could be covered by insurance.

But if it's just tucute bullshit because you feel like it, you should damn well expect to pay for your own elective surgery with your own money. Because you don't fucking need it. At all.

True. But I'm being highly optimistic in assuming that the Chris's of the movement are relatively small.

 

[Sissy]

Well, that or it's an elective surgery.

In one case, if it's actually therapeutically necessary to treat something that's actually wrong, it could be covered by insurance.

But if it's just tucute bullshit because you feel like it, you should damn well expect to pay for your own elective surgery with your own money. Because you don't fucking need it. At all.

To be sure it is not a required surgery for a trans person. It is different for all of them, but generally speaking if the person passes for the gender they desire, the reconstruction of the genitals into a non-functioning organ will become less and less appealing, sense it is entirely inconsequential if they do or do not have the genitals of their desired gender. The presence of other mental illness tend to compound and make the surgery more desirable, as they are more disconnected with the reality of the procedure.

I've dealt with many MtF trannys who have desired to be mothers, and the more rational ones eventually realized the impossibility of this, and did not want to waste the money on something that did not truly give them what they want. The ones that got the surgery anyways were usually extremely vain, and less comfortable with their body. They also tended to be the ones who refused to get talk therapy as they didn't believe there was anything wrong with them or their desires, but rather it was something wrong with anyone who would stop them.

Insurance shouldn't pay for you to destroy your own body in such a way that has no positive consequences. The hormones are horrible for you, but there are at least a number of effects that help the person pass to make it acceptable to prescribe to people in certain cases. What should be more wide spread though is an attempt to help trannys accept their bodies and who they are, and try to find what ever peace they can in this life.

 

[bloodcoffee]

You know, I've been questioning my sexuality again (it's always been kind of confusing). It's hard for me to figure out whether I'm straight, bisexual, or even the slight chance of being lesbian. Like, I feel like I should have it figured out already but I always go back to questioning myself and end up going back to square one. Like, how do people figure out this shit?

I have no idea how people figure this shit out. As awful as it sounds, this made me jealous of my gay friends at university. Yes, they had their own troubles with their sexuality, but they can confidently say how they feel one way or another (at a young age). I didn't have a clue and I was 19 when the questioning started. All I can really say is don't let anyone else tell you what you are. One woman tried to convince me I was just a lesbian and that really fucked with my head.

 

[Online Violence]

There's a deeper principle here at work: there's no objective definition of any word. Words only have meaning in context.

No, they do. You can take your postmodern redefinition of meaning and shove it up your ass, frankly. All those words I just wrote have objective definitions. In combination, they largely mean I think your opinion is stupid. If the classic "words have no objective meaning, duuuuude *hits bong*" was even partway true no one could ever have a conversation. There's a difference between the normal, organic progression of language changing and evolving and the artificial "everything is socially constructed, we can reshape the world and humanity with words!" of the modern age that people equate with it.

All science has to say about these questions are that things like chromosomes exist and people have made statistical observations based on sexual characteristics like them. Certainly useful information, no doubt. But to claim that they actually fix what the English meaning of the words "man" or "woman" mean is a confirmation bias. It's not really supported by linguistics.

The definition of man and woman, and therefore gender in general has been absolutely 100% linked to biological traits for all of english's existence. It's also true for practically every other language on the planet that exists or has ever existed. Gender = sex. Again, the definition is only "problematic" because some are entertaining the delusions of 0.01% of the population. And even then it's being replaced by meaningless self-contradiction. If gender =/= sex, then why are trans attempting so hard to emulate the physical characteristics of the opposite one? And then you have the "having a penis is feminine" retards fighting with them because in their moronic redefinition of gender the physical characteristics don't matter at all. THOSE definitions, the ones cobbled together for the only purpose to salve the ego's of literally insane people, yeah I agree, devoid of any objective meaning. Just full out subjectivity.

 

[Marvin]

If the classic "words have no objective meaning, duuuuude *hits bong*" was even partway true no one could ever have a conversation.

You don't need objective meaning to get your point across. There are plenty of examples of people speaking even completely different languages and managing to communicate.

There's a difference between the normal, organic progression of language changing and evolving and the artificial "everything is socially constructed, we can reshape the world and humanity with words!" of the modern age that people equate with it.

I agree.

For example, I object to the racism is "power+prejudice" definition SJWs are claiming nowadays. Why? Because they're not really offering linguistic evidence that that's how people use the word. They're just making some moral argument that that's a better definition or something. If that's not how people usually use the word, in English, that that's simply not what the word means.

Really, any attempt to forcefully dictate language is going to fail. Language evolves, regardless of how hard people try to oppose that. Like, the example I always bring up is the Royal Spanish Academy. They standardize the Spanish language. Could you imagine them convincing Americans to start referring to "Real Spanish" compared to "Mexican Spanish", in daily life, anytime soon? I can't see that happening. And until they do that, it will be just as valid to call Mexican Spanish just "Spanish", as far as Americans are concerned.

That's not to say that the SJWs don't have good intentions. (They might, depending on where you stand.) And I'm also not saying that science isn't useful to humanity. I'm just saying that the question of what defines "racism" is a separate question from whether or not it's a moral definition. And the question of what defines a "man", is different from the scientific standard of a "man". Perhaps very similar. Perhaps informed by one another. But it's a bit more nuanced than just "science says so, case closed".

 

[RM 810]

I define gender as brain sex personally, (which is also why I see gender dysphoria as a neurological condition rather than a mental illness), although gender roles, gender stereotypes, gender presentation, all that stuff is different but most people don't think that, it is pretty nitpicky though.

 

[Load Bearing Drywall]

For example, I object to the racism is "power+prejudice" definition SJWs are claiming nowadays. Why? Because they're not really offering linguistic evidence that that's how people use the word. They're just making some moral argument that that's a better definition or something. If that's not how people usually use the word, in English, that that's simply not what the word means.

SJWs, probably because they're young, really don't understand how to code-switch for their audience. The "racism = power + prejudice" thing isn't new by a long shot, but it is academic speech. And if they thought about it for five minutes they'd realize that it translates really easily into "structural racism" for normal folks without liberal arts degrees. Now, whether people are going to agree or not is another story, but at least you're going to be able to talk about it without getting mired in a stupid argument about words.

Trans groups do the same thing, and what makes it worse is that even within those communities these words vary in meaning. So people keep talking past each other and calling each other shitlords, instead of stopping, taking a breath and trying to define some basic terminology.

 

[Cheeseburger Picnic]

I think we should have separate threads for Serious LGB Discussion and Serious T Discussion tbh because goddamn I am sick of every conversation devolving into a tranny debate on this website.

Separate but equal, like their bathrooms

 

[Male Idiot]

Just use unisex bathrooms, or give male, female and trans bathrooms so everybody is happy.

Also, just do what you feel like doing behind close doors, with consenting adults and don't harm anyone. Seems pretty decent solution to me.

 

[Online Violence]

I think we should have separate threads for Serious LGB Discussion and Serious T Discussion tbh because goddamn I am sick of every conversation devolving into a tranny debate on this website.

Separate but equal, like their bathrooms

I'm sure when I first posted on the thread about the trans stuff it was a 2 page thread with a subject devoted to it, it was shoved into this one at some point.

 

[Pikimon]

The definition of man and woman, and therefore gender in general has been absolutely 100% linked to biological traits for all of english's existence. It's also true for practically every other language on the planet that exists or has ever existed. Gender = sex. Again, the definition is only "problematic" because some are entertaining the delusions of 0.01% of the population. And even then it's being replaced by meaningless self-contradiction. If gender =/= sex, then why are tranny attempting so hard to emulate the physical characteristics of the opposite one? And then you have the "having a penis is feminine" retards fighting with them because in their moronic redefinition of gender the physical characteristics don't matter at all. THOSE definitions, the ones cobbled together for the only purpose to salve the ego's of literally insane people, yeah I agree, devoid of any objective meaning. Just full out subjectivity.

Biological Gender (physical bits) and Sex (what you identify with) are separate things fam, at least according to 70+ years of biological and psychological research.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Biological Gender (physical bits) and Sex (what you identify with) are separate things fam, at least according to 70+ years of biological and psychological research.

It isn't according to research at all. It isn't even an empirical question but rather just a priori definition. It is the same as saying "all bachelors are unmarried"

 

[RM 810]

Biological Gender (physical bits) and Sex (what you identify with) are separate things fam, at least according to 70+ years of biological and psychological research.

Think you got those two backwards man

 

[glutenfreebooty]

I decided to post this here to avoid clogging any other places with undue tranny chat, but... Am I the only tr0n not offended by the use of the word 'tranny'? Maybe I've become desensitized to it, or maybe being post-op has changed the way I see my identity, but the word just doesn't prick me in the same way as it does other tr0nsfolk, to the point of people who tried to use it as an insult against me being surprised by my lack of reaction. My girlfriend said that my outlook is probably because of the fact that I saw my transition as a means to an end instead of a large piece of my identity, but now I'm wondering if any other tr0nsfolk feel the same way about "the t-word."