Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Beebo]

And while the MBTs & IFVs are going to help, remember Ukraine is populated and run by Slavs so I'm moderating how high I'm raising my hopes.

How useful those are going to be all comes down to how they are actually utilized in the end. If they are just spread around everywhere in separate brigades, they'll be near useless.
But if all the modern western stuff is put into a single brigade, and most importantly the people actually using them will get extensive NATO standard training, they can make a big difference.

So often individual battles are decided by a single over-achieving brigade making a breakthrough somewhere or stopping the enemy breakthrough. From there the dominoes start falling over as the momentum is either gained for you, or taken away from the enemy about to win.

If Ukraine gets that heavy hitting fist that can get localized results whenever needed, it will be extremely valuable. But if the potential is squandered by giving every boomer mobik unit their own Leo4 to play with, they aren't going to change a thing, other than give the Russians tons of propaganda as videos of those hyped up western wunderwaffe getting BTFO'd start to flood the internet.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

I'm still shocked by all the KA-52 kills, and I guess as importantly the lack of new KA-52s to replace them.

I'm not convinced the Ka-52 is a bad helicopter.
I'm just convinced that Russian attack helicopter tactics suck.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

I'm so glad that Russia is thinking of the future gamers who will be playing "Battlefield Bad Invasion 2 electric boogaloo" and want to play all the tanks from previous games
next update will include the "Tonk"

 

[Beebo]

I'm just convinced that Russian attack helicopter tactics suck.

At this point they are basically being used as ridiculously wasteful type of rocket artillery with their 45 degree "fire into the sky and hope it hits something somewhere" tactics. Ukraine does that too, but for different reasons. That reason being, that they have like 5 attack helicopters.

At the very beginning Russians did try to actually use them in a way that made sense, but as Russian inflexible top-down type of command, third world tier communication and corrupt generals pocketing the military exercise budgets while reporting a completed exercise for the past 30 years made Russians completely incapable of achieving anything more complex than flying from point A to B in a predetermined route.

 

[Snekposter]

How useful those are going to be all comes down to how they are actually utilized in the end. If they are just spread around everywhere in separate brigades, they'll be near useless.
But if all the modern western stuff is put into a single brigade, and most importantly the people actually using them will get extensive NATO standard training, they can make a big difference.

So often individual battles are decided by a single over-achieving brigade making a breakthrough somewhere or stopping the enemy breakthrough. From there the dominoes start falling over as the momentum is either gained for you, or taken away from the enemy about to win.

If Ukraine gets that heavy hitting fist that can get localized results whenever needed, it will be extremely valuable. But if the potential is squandered by giving every boomer mobik unit their own Leo4 to play with, they aren't going to change a thing, other than give the Russians tons of propaganda as videos of those hyped up western wunderwaffe getting BTFO'd start to flood the internet.

That's happening. An entire integrated brigade of one Bradley battalion, three Stryker battalions, and another battalion of field artillery, complete with brigade staff, is being trained up in Germany right now. Assuming they're anywhere near as competent as Ukrainian forces in general have been, they're going to rip and tear. Keep in mind they've got nothing to do but train in Germany until the mud has dried up, so they're going to be practically razors.

 

[Ghostse]

A problem that went away when the U.S. military switched to diesel engines and the older service AFVs like the M48A2s had their engines replaced.
Back to the T-55s, if they had been continuously modernized with FCS. Main gun replaced or at the very minimum using newer main gun ammunition. Same for engine, transmission and rest of power-pack and etc. T-55s would be very capable as second or third line tanks, but the cost of making and keeping them current is way more expensive than buying and maintaining a completely new main battle tank.

Fair enough about the M48, but that's why I specified the 50s.

Re: T-55, Lots of Czech-adjacent places use modernized T-55s to the point its barely the same tank. They modernized T-55s because, to put it simply, now that they aren't on a coldwar border, AFVs are much less important and fuck dealing with UN arms control not to mention the assholes selling weapons.
Just take what you've got, what you've got training on, ammo and spare parts for, and bolt on some ERA.

I'm not convinced the Ka-52 is a bad helicopter.
I'm just convinced that Russian attack helicopter tactics suck.

Hey hey WHOA reign in those horses chief. That's just uncalled for, going after their tactics when clearly the biggest failing is training.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Hey hey WHOA reign in those horses chief. That's just uncalled for, going after their tactics when clearly the biggest failing is training.

Lies and slander. This post implies they even did any training to fail at.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Perfectly for all of today’s Tank Talk, we have a new Lazerpig video.

The Tonk might be the better option

 

[mindlessobserver]

Perfectly for all of today’s Tank Talk, we have a new Lazerpig video.

The Tonk might be the better option

They probably should have just led with the Tonk. Then Kiev really would have fallen in 3 days.

 

[Snekposter]

Fair enough about the M48, but that's why I specified the 50s.

Re: T-55, Lots of Czech-adjacent places use modernized T-55s to the point its barely the same tank. They modernized T-55s because, to put it simply, now that they aren't on a coldwar border, AFVs are much less important and fuck dealing with UN arms control not to mention the assholes selling weapons.
Just take what you've got, what you've got training on, ammo and spare parts for, and bolt on some ERA.

Keep in mind the Czechs also made and probably still make really, really good upgrade packages for those things. Unlike the Russians the Czechs actually practiced quality control on their factory floors so they were a big exporter during the Cold War if you wanted a Soviet tank design that actually worked and came with all its parts installed. They were all export models, but if your choice was a Soviet-made export model or a Czech-made export model... not much of a choice. Hell, I'd probably rather ride to battle in the Czech T-72M4 CZ from 2004 than I would the T-72 Obr. 2016 the Russians are making, even if we assume the later has all its parts installed and in working order. But we know there's no chances of that happening...

You know, maybe UralVagondZavod should rebrand themselves to Quickscell, since they're going to be delivering a product of about the same quality.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

any news on the Russian Twin Tower tanks being used in Ukraine or was it just a quality meme by the Russians?

 

[Snekposter]

any news on the Russian Twin Tower tanks being used in Ukraine or was it just a quality meme by the Russians?
View attachment 4855041

That would be a great meme if not for the needless Putin chimp. Like seriously, there's enough images of him around you could use you don't need to make yourself look like a chimp by using that one.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

That would be a great meme if not for the needless Putin chimp. Like seriously, there's enough images of him around you could use you don't need to make yourself look like a chimp by using that one.

i just had that picture saved and couldn't remember the name of that joke of a weapon
here's a better one

 

[Snekposter]

i just had that picture saved and couldn't remember the name of that joke of a weapon

Fair. As to them being used... I think the Russians are busy trying to figure out how to use them. They have a problem, so they created a solution... but they now have a problem of how to implement the solution. It turns out a naval turret designed to run off ship power, operate using water cooling, and use 100+ pound ammo canisters isn't the best solution for a mobile, land-based anti-air platform.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

Perfectly for all of today’s Tank Talk, we have a new Lazerpig video.

The Tonk might be the better option

Haven't watched the video yet so I don't know if LP says this are not, but the biggest impact of the T-14 is getting NATO to start upgrading their next generation tanks from using a 120mm Rheinmetall cannon, to a 130mm one.

Also I guess a T-14 expy appeared in ARMA 3 so there's that too.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

Haven't watched the video yet so I don't know if LP says this are not, but the biggest impact of the T-14 is getting NATO to start upgrading their next generation tanks from using a 120mm Rheinmetall cannon, to a 130mm one.

Also I guess a T-14 expy appeared in ARMA 3 so there's that too.

Russia should start threatening that they are working on Gundams so that NATO actually makes one

 

[Jewthulhu]

Perfectly for all of today’s Tank Talk, we have a new Lazerpig video.

The Tonk might be the better option

The only thing more pathetic than not producing your latest military equipment is not producing your latest military equipment that isn't even that good anyway.

Haven't watched the video yet so I don't know if LP says this are not, but the biggest impact of the T-14 is getting NATO to start upgrading their next generation tanks from using a 120mm Rheinmetall cannon, to a 130mm one.

Also I guess a T-14 expy appeared in ARMA 3 so there's that too.

>Russia pretends to have wunderwaffe to destroy the west
>West pours more money into its military industrial complex to produce something to compete with Russia
>Russia's new tech turns out to suck/not exist/not actually produced in scale
>West has advanced another decade ahead of Russia technologically
Many such cases.

 

[Snekposter]

Russia should start threatening that they are working on Gundams so that NATO actually makes one

Japan does have that life-size model... Maybe we should invent BattleMechs instead so we can storm Moscow Square with a Marauder, just as Aleksander Kerensky intended.

 

[Clownish]

Girkin told Putin to shut up.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

The way operation "capture Bachmut in 9months, or less ™" is going at this point I'm expecting Prigozhin to get a 9mm promotion from the KGB

but i do predict it's gonna fall next week. just to stop the 2nd hand embarrassment