Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Scream Aim Fire]

Me and my crew are gearing up for a D&D campaign ourselves, though we're having trouble figuring out what characters we should give a try. It's something of a toss-up between "just use our favorite races" or to go the extra mile, and "make more characters designed around mocking political shit"; i.e., make homebrew races designed to piss off the woke. Yes, we did, in fact, make a wendigo race for that, once; that was a FUN villain campaign for C&C...

 

[Alabama Gamer]

It's very serendipitous that the game named ACKS was written by a chud.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

Me and my crew are gearing up for a D&D campaign ourselves, though we're having trouble figuring out what characters we should give a try. It's something of a toss-up between "just use our favorite races" or to go the extra mile, and "make more characters designed around mocking political shit"; i.e., make homebrew races designed to piss off the woke. Yes, we did, in fact, make a wendigo race for that, once; that was a FUN villain campaign for C&C...

Just make characters you actually want to play. Joke characters a fun for one shots but tend to wear out their welcome pretty quickly.

 

[anti SJW]

Makers of racist game can't use PayPal.

 

[Ghostse]

Just make characters you actually want to play. Joke characters a fun for one shots but tend to wear out their welcome pretty quickly.

I was about to post the same. If you're running a full campaign and not a One Shot/Megadungeon, you're now either stuck with your wacky premise long, long after its worn out its welcome, or you're just going to be playing a normal character after three sessions.

i had a player I ended up firing who would do that shit. They would come up with a gimmick character, and then when they got tired of the gimmick would just play the chaotic-neutral version of himself who would shitstir for no reason other than "I'm bored".

Its better to just play the campaign and make running jokes like normal people nerds.

View attachment 4839589

Makers of racist game can't use PayPal.

Reason: Selling sexual content
Justification: your product is fucking stupid

 

[Alabama Gamer]

I have been informed that my character working for the government does not make him feat-tax-exempt.

 

[ComStar]

Saints preserve me, for i have offered to run Return to the Tomb of Horrors for my group. In Pathfinder 1E (so i'll have to convert and/or handwave a bunch of stuff).

I've run standard ToH a few times in D&D 3.5 and 4th, so i know my way around it, and i kind of expect them to breeze through the intro (until the Black Academy) and then to get murdered by vampires on their way there. Or, more likely, a combination of Leon/Drake/Vampire Dumbledore once they get there.

The only thing i'm kind of unsure of is what level they should start at. the original was levels 10-14, so i figure around 13-14 with 3 level-up spots (end of Black Academy, end of ToH, end of Moil?)

I'll also have to toss in more loot because Pathfinder is all about that. Think i'll just drop an assload in the vault in Moil and that will basically be it for the rest of the adventure.

 

[JJLiautaud]

Saints preserve me, for i have offered to run Return to the Tomb of Horrors for my group. In Pathfinder 1E (so i'll have to convert and/or handwave a bunch of stuff).

I've run standard ToH a few times in D&D 3.5 and 4th, so i know my way around it, and i kind of expect them to breeze through the intro (until the Black Academy) and then to get murdered by vampires on their way there. Or, more likely, a combination of Leon/Drake/Vampire Dumbledore once they get there.

The only thing i'm kind of unsure of is what level they should start at. the original was levels 10-14, so i figure around 13-14 with 3 level-up spots (end of Black Academy, end of ToH, end of Moil?)

I'll also have to toss in more loot because Pathfinder is all about that. Think i'll just drop an assload in the vault in Moil and that will basically be it for the rest of the adventure.

Isn't the whole point of the ToH is that's it's basically TPK with basically zero reward?

 

[Alabama Gamer]

Isn't the whole point of the ToH is that's it's basically TPK with basically zero reward?

Yep. People rag on Gygax for how hard the module is (there's a common misconception that he was the archetypical Killer DM), but it was explicitly written to do this for the specific reason that some of his regular group were complaining that his adventures were too easy. I don't have a source to hand on this, and may be misremembering, but the inciting incident that led to the writing of ToH was somebody soloing Temple of Elemental Evil with just his character and a henchman.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Isn't the whole point of the ToH is that's it's basically TPK with basically zero reward?

Pretty much.

And holy shit, Demi-Liches used to be a fucking nightmare. Don't know about now, but it was pretty much accepted that if you wanted to be a dick, you could crack open Gamma World and have Akerak summon shit from there if you wanted, because he had knowledge and power that not even the Gods had, where even time held no secrets.

"Aha! We have you now, Ackerak!"
>Gates in a Gamma World Death Machine
>Screams.mid
>Sends Death Machine home
>Goes back to sleep

 

[Ghostse]

Yep. People rag on Gygax for how hard the module is (there's a common misconception that he was the archetypical Killer DM), but it was explicitly written to do this for the specific reason that some of his regular group were complaining that his adventures were too easy. I don't have a source to hand on this, and may be misremembering, but the inciting incident that led to the writing of ToH was somebody soloing Temple of Elemental Evil with just his character and a henchman.

The original Tomb of Horrors was supposed to be hard but beatable. The issue is that people don't realize that the adventure level isn't just a probability gate. You're supposed to have gotten at least one character from level 1 3 to Max Level before attempting so you have an idea of what it takes to survive.
In fact the module has limited randomization, only a couple of monsters to fight - its mostly about player skill and intelligence.
For old school systems, its basically the final exam. The doctoral thesis.

I.e. complainers say there is a 50/50 chance of TPK at the start, but if you use hirelings & followers to scout ahead like you should, you'll know which entrance is real.

 

[ComStar]

Isn't the whole point of the ToH is that's it's basically TPK with basically zero reward?

Definitely, but Return turns it into a proper adventure with quite the epic conclusion (or consequences, should the players fail at the right place)

 

[Airbrushed Van Art]

Apropos of nothing, I decided to illustrate precisely why Powered by the Apocalypse is dogshit. Everything in the system is resolved with 2d6s, and on an unmodified roll 2-6 is a failure, 7-9 is a semi-failure where the GM picks some bad shit to do to you, and 10-12 is a success. With high stats/skills you can get bonuses to the roll. Simple enough, right? But as you can see here, regardless of bonuses you are always most likely to get 'sorta fucked up' as a result on a test.

View attachment 4790386

The mechanics are rigged in such a way that even a highly-skilled person will likely run afoul of the game and have to submit themselves to the GM's whim for what bad thing happens when they try to act, because that's the entire gimmick of the system. No matter how much you progress a character, they will always most likely get that yellow result.

The worst part is that most of these games have a single “do something dangerous” “move” that runs off a single stat. It is surprisingly easy to min/max during character creation to have a +3 to that stat, basically becoming a superhero.

A buddy of mine pulled that shit and essentially became Superman, so I had to write all of the encounters around him. It sucked.

 

[Adamska]

Apropos of nothing, I decided to illustrate precisely why Powered by the Apocalypse is dogshit. Everything in the system is resolved with 2d6s, and on an unmodified roll 2-6 is a failure, 7-9 is a semi-failure where the GM picks some bad shit to do to you, and 10-12 is a success. With high stats/skills you can get bonuses to the roll. Simple enough, right? But as you can see here, regardless of bonuses you are always most likely to get 'sorta fucked up' as a result on a test.

View attachment 4790386

The mechanics are rigged in such a way that even a highly-skilled person will likely run afoul of the game and have to submit themselves to the GM's whim for what bad thing happens when they try to act, because that's the entire gimmick of the system. No matter how much you progress a character, they will always most likely get that yellow result.

See, this is one of my biggest issues with PbtA right here. This chart shows you exactly why it mechanically sucks as a system; you legitimately can never actually gain any sense of competence as a character. People try to defend it by saying you're supposed to mostly only use dice when there's a decent chance of failure, and I can see that point. At no point should you probably need to roll dice to make a sandwich for example, except maybe if the character never did that before.

But then it's paired with a contempt for solid ruling and this system is never tweaked to specifically the game using it. And a lot of games for some god-awful fucking reason love to try and ram combat down your throat, and guess what can happen during that? Chances of failure and punishment, meaning the dice.

Fuck's sake, half of them turn it to high lethal without even meaning to. And not in the good way, like how Pondsmith did with Cyberpunk, or Fantasy Flight did with the Warhams TTRPGs. Other half turns to wank and faffing, which could've been solved with LARPs sad to say.

Saints preserve me, for i have offered to run Return to the Tomb of Horrors for my group. In Pathfinder 1E (so i'll have to convert and/or handwave a bunch of stuff).

I've run standard ToH a few times in D&D 3.5 and 4th, so i know my way around it, and i kind of expect them to breeze through the intro (until the Black Academy) and then to get murdered by vampires on their way there. Or, more likely, a combination of Leon/Drake/Vampire Dumbledore once they get there.

The only thing i'm kind of unsure of is what level they should start at. the original was levels 10-14, so i figure around 13-14 with 3 level-up spots (end of Black Academy, end of ToH, end of Moil?)

I'll also have to toss in more loot because Pathfinder is all about that. Think i'll just drop an assload in the vault in Moil and that will basically be it for the rest of the adventure.

I vaguely remember return being somewhat less of a dick pain than the original one, if only because the changes to editions defanged some of the traps that the dungeon used. Well that and players usually were a bit wiser due to it being a reprisal and so the reputation is there.

I also do vaguely remember Acererak was nerfed in one of the reprisals, since Demilich is pain.

The thing with Tomb of Horrors was it punished you for not being cautious and methodical usually. A lot of the killer traps was due to player impatience as well as just being prone to doing without thinking things through. If you're prone to looting, that's a death. You wander ahead without precautions like poles or suicide monkeys? That's a death. You lollygag in indecision? That also is a death.

Not my cup of tea. I'm the maniac that prefers Ruins of Undermountain.

 

[Brain Problems]

View attachment 4839589

Makers of racist game can't use PayPal.

What are the odds this fag was sitting there cheering on other people being deplatformed/debanked? Your game blows, you suck, enjoy the reaping of your sowing.

When we did Tomb of Horrors I hated it because I am a D&D newfag and found it random and annoying and filled to the brim with all the shit I hate but I appreciated what I was seeing. I fully admit I am not the target audience and have no understanding of the oldschool concepts on hirelings and 10ft poles but if I can be honest, I am perfectly okay with that. That's not the type of experience I'm looking for when I sit down for a TTRPG but it is fun hearing stories about it.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

I appreciate the idea of Tomb of Horrors. I'd be incredibly reluctant to run it without a group of players who knew the shit they were in for and I get minimal joy playing it. Last time I did so I did it in 3.5 as a Healer because a friend asked me to and made it clear to the DM from the word go that it was a bad idea as it was for what they wanted to do. They tried to run it as it was and halfway through got frustrated and just let their preferred PC avoid everything bad while I mucked around on the internet listening in and healing everyone else where necessary with what little RP I could grab.

I appreciate the framework of it still.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

I have rumors of the Tomb of Horrors start moving around the campaign world's merc communities about 9-10th level. It's talked about being unbeatable, those who go there never return, blah blah blah.

If the players really want to give it a shot, I'll run it, but I'll upgrade it and un-nerf everything. It'll be a meat grinder and lethal as hell with a lot of Save or Die shit.

But I don't run it without the players knowing "This is a meat grinder. I will go from a neutral DM to an adversarial DM on this module. You will lose at least half of your party before you even get to ol' Ack-Ack. He will kill everyone else but the last person, who he will teleport 5,000 miles away, paint blue, and strip nude with no save."

Sometimes my players have surprised me and wanted to do it.

I treat I6 the same way. Buff Strahd and everything else up. Make it into a nightmare. Run that shit as a prelude to the Ravenloft setting stuff.

But then, my DMing style is a little strange.

 

[ComStar]

When i ran ToH, i did inform my players that they were going into a bullshit dungeon made to kill them.

The 4th ed group was very relaxed and laughed their asses off a couple of times. they ended up getting 3/5 members killed, their wizard losing an arm to the cursed wishing gem and lost a bunch of money in the end after resurrection fees and the like. still loved it

the 3.5 group was a tad more serious, and one of them actually made it to Acererak who promptly sucked his soul on the first round. anticlimactic yes, but they didn't regret it.

they were a tad underwhelmed though, because 3.5 ToH is more bullshit than the custom 4th ed ToH i found somewhere. that one was was very playable, i can see if i can find it if anyone wants a look

And the troon portal was a great hit with both groups. many laughs were had.

 

[Ghostse]

When i ran ToH, i did inform my players that they were going into a bullshit dungeon made to kill them.

The 4th ed group was very relaxed and laughed their asses off a couple of times. they ended up getting 3/5 members killed, their wizard losing an arm to the cursed wishing gem and lost a bunch of money in the end after resurrection fees and the like. still loved it

the 3.5 group was a tad more serious, and one of them actually made it to Acererak who promptly sucked his soul on the first round. anticlimactic yes, but they didn't regret it.

they were a tad underwhelmed though, because 3.5 ToH is more bullshit than the custom 4th ed ToH i found somewhere. that one was was very playable, i can see if i can find it if anyone wants a look

And the troon portal was a great hit with both groups. many laughs were had.

I've got the official 4e Tomb of Horrors, which is less about ToH and more about stopping Acererak from having a burger made from Nerul's corpse to ascend to godhood like Vecna. Its not even really a campaign or module, its more like a bunch of dungeons you can bolt on to an existing campaign and have Acererak's ascention as a secondary hook or have it turn out he was the one manipulating your real big-bad. IIRC, the idea is after the party deals with Orcus in the official adventure path, they discover that Orcus was just supposed to distract them, so they rush to go interupt Acererak.

Never ran it (picked it up because thanks to Borders dying, it was like like $3) but read through it and the idea is pretty neat.

 

[ComStar]

I've got the official 4e Tomb of Horrors, which is less about ToH and more about stopping Acererak from having a burger made from Nerul's corpse to ascend to godhood like Vecna. Its not even really a campaign or module, its more like a bunch of dungeons you can bolt on to an existing campaign and have Acererak's ascention as a secondary hook or have it turn out he was the one manipulating your real big-bad. IIRC, the idea is after the party deals with Orcus in the official adventure path, they discover that Orcus was just supposed to distract them, so they rush to go interupt Acererak.

Never ran it (picked it up because thanks to Borders dying, it was like like $3) but read through it and the idea is pretty neat.

I ran this version. Probably because i did a quick google search and it turned up on a forum somewhere. Read it a few times and thought it would be decent enough for 4th ed.

Still unsure about the Acererak construct though. 600 hit points is a whole fucking lot