Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Racist Trash]

On another note, the concerns russia has about depleted uranium isn't entirely unfounded. Depleted uranium penetrators can have an effect on the local populace and the land. It could pollute ukranian super-soil etc. Not like it warrants a tactical nuclear strike as it's not a large escelation, russian tankers die regularly due to poor training and their roscosmos tanks. (I'm not sure if russia deployed their dep uranium shells with their tanks, so this could be russia crying over the playingfield leveling.)

Depleted uranium isn't any more or less toxic than the usual toxic elements used in weaponry, explosives in general are fairly shit for safety in more than just their explosive properties.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

lol, I wonder why the "released convicts" don't have a high recidivism rate. Probably because they're all dead in reality.

> release 5000 prisioners
> 15 of them make a crime JUST AFTER FUCKING RELEASE and get caught JUST AFTER RELEASE.
> 'lets make some math, change it to percentage, it look less idiotic'

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

> release 5000 prisioners
> 15 of them make a crime JUST AFTER FUCKING RELEASE and get caught JUST AFTER RELEASE.
> 'lets make some math, change it to percentage, it look less idiotic'

More likely than not the 15 are the ones that actually survived.

 

[Racist Trash]

New perun, don't know if this one is early or late but it feels different than the usual release times.

 

[tulskij_tochnyj]

It will be nice if the ICBM which is supposed to hit Cheyenne shelter hits somewhere in Colorado, not in Oklahoma. This is something different that 'we have a long-range missile' - it must also hit a target.

Something that has been done with 1960's computers and analog astronavigation, apparently can't be done with modern technologies. You don't need the precision of W-88 for a MAD doctrine.

Problem with economy not-backed by pure military force is that the hosting country can just tell you to BTFO, confiscate your assets and send nothing they promised. That is the problem.

And Russia is going to sell Siberian resources where? In Europe?

And last but not least: other former east-block nations have a pretty large and educated diasporas in West. Ruzzkie don't and still have none - their migrants aren't going to university, make no bussiness other than drug-dealing and selling own womans and so one.

Having diaspora in Canada didn't help Ukrainian economy in the slightest. We can also bring up large, entrepreneurial and educated Armenian diaspora that has failed to turn their country into second Israel.

 

[delerious?]

Having diaspora in Canada didn't help Ukrainian economy in the slightest. We can also bring up large, entrepreneurial and educated Armenian diaspora that has failed to turn their country into second Israel.

The "sprawy" guy is a bit aggressive in his hate for the russian people and is a bit retarded. Russia has a large educated diaspora living abroad too but they don't return because they can make triple what they would in russia. Educated Russians would rather work for Lockheed Martin than Uralvagonzavod.

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

lol, I wonder why the "released convicts" don't have a high recidivism rate. Probably because they're all dead.

Now, let's be fair here. All the ones who are too dumb to follow orders have been punished or shot. All the ones who are too retarded to hold a gun have been killed by Ukraine. All of the remaining ones are traumatized from both enemy and allied forces. They probably have a ringing in their ears that won't go away, vivid memories of one of their mates being smashed by a sledgehammer, and a permanent fear of ever holding a gun or a knife again. Many will be nursing physical injuries too.

They've also got a lump sum of money which is probably enough to survive for a month. Despite this, a few managed to reoffend anyway.

 

[No bullying allowed]

New perun, don't know if this one is early or late but it feels different than the usual release times.

Perun has released around a video a week for a while now, give or take a few days. So it's on time.

 

[Clownish]

This is what the Azov fighter khimikdavid wrote on his Instagram. He has been in Azov since he was a teenager and lived through Mariupol and being a POW.

I thought it's an interesting insight into the mental state of people fighting in this war.

After what you've seen, you can no longer live as you did before.
In the socially imposed comfort zone.
Now the edges are already chafed and you do not understand where this zone is for you and what it looks like.
In the ideals and aspects of life that were imposed on you in childhood. You realize that life is a cosmos in your head, no one can set you boundaries and rules. How to behave in order to be worthy in this society or what to profess. After all, the norm is an elongated concept, and everyone has his own idea. In Africa, in one tribe the norm is to eat an albino, because they say it will bring good luck. These are all ideals invented by people.
It's as if you're a psychopath who tries to adapt to the reality of life around him, to be like everyone else and not be a threat to others. You can do anything, but you're not interested in anything.
You tell everyone what they want to hear, but in fact, your perception of the world has long been in space, they will not accept your understanding of the world around them. That's why you have to lie and lie so that you won't waste a lot of time explaining things they won't understand.
You're satisfied with very little. You don't need more than that. You don't show it so you don't stand out from the norm that "this" society has imposed on you.
Before that, I was too proud for this life.
And you, my darlings, will be left alone with these people who are coming back.
I need time to forget it all, and maybe to deceive myself about something, then maybe I can continue the unconscious life I had before.

He added this in a comment.

You know, it's not the war that makes you think like this. And it's not death. It's just that you see what people are really like when their lives are threatened, they turn into animals. You see the real guts of the masses, not what they say and claim to be true.

 

[Disheveled-Human]

There is a fucked up part of me that wants WW3 to happen because after the dust settles and if you are lucky enough to survive I think things will get pretty based. Everyone will get off their fucking high horse and be humbled.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

The U.S. Volunteers in Ukraine Who Lie, Waste and Bicker - The New Yo…

archived 25 Mar 2023 07:42:17 UTC

archive.is

Hilarious read on the multitude of American and other foreign grifters and dumbass war tourists in Ukraine.

 

[GoPro]

There weren't any economic relief programs for those countries, lol (unlike for DDR, Czechoslovakia or the Baltics). Plus, Russia had to pay off all USSR and some Russian Empire debts. Ukraine tried to double down on socialism (yes, in the early 90's they had higher support for the Communist Party than Russia) and experienced a brief period of hyperinflation.
And when you're talking about reforms, where'd you get professionals for it? Market economy was banned in USSR universities, the only way to study it was to criticize it from the Marxist-Leninist standpoint (and "Western economic models" departments were chronically underfunded and understaffed, had problems getting economic journals from the US etc.). Read Egor Gaidar's memoirs, they were going in blind, all they had was some textbooks and the ability to ask Western economists for advice over the phone. Plus, reformers barely held any political power and were under constant criticism from the press and the left for "destroying" muh social programs and muh industry.
The economy of USSR was too big to be salvaged purely by private investments (like Czech industry was, for example), and its economists were too incompetent to salvage it without extensive foreign aid and advice.

Gaidar? He went gung ho on reforms. He went against conventional wisdom of bigger country = slower rate of reforms. If his memoirs are anything like those of people like Kaiser Wilhelm, he probably has no shortage of of excuses and shifting blame for all his failures onto others. Thanks for the recommendation though, I will definitely give it a read. I had no idea he published his memoirs.

Your ignore that:
1. Shock therapy was first implemented successfully in Chile back in 1970s. Russians could get experts from there.
2. China went in blind too and it was even more isolated and dogmatic than Russia. China had a big but very inefficient economy. They managed to slowly implement privatization in the 80s. Russia could learn from them too.
3. Other countries went in with about as much experience as Russia. Poles opted for the more gradual approach to shock therapy than Czechs because Polish economy was bigger.
4. Press and people in these countries were not happy during the turbulent 90s about these reforms either. There were protests, commies were voted back in, and several groups tried to take advantage of the upheaval.
5. Russia did not have to pay debts of Soviet Union. Russian government chose to do it for several reasons reasons. One, they wanted all assets Soviet union held (gold, investments, intellectual rights etc.). Another was the possession of soviet nukes, navies, bases, and other military resources. Third, it was to inherit diplomatic assets (embassies, missions), seat on the UN security council, and other diplomatic perks. Lastly, it was so Russia could inherit foreign debt Soviets held either to collect it or use it in diplomacy.
6. Russia got a hands on help from the west to rebuild its dilapidated oil wells and gas extraction facilities. Kremlin could use wealth granted by these resources to soften the drastic effects of shock therapy. Most other countries did not have enough natural resources to soften the impact of reforms.
7. There were no safeguards or other measures taken to prevent kelptocracy. Kremlin could have given reformers necessary power and resources but chose not to . Ex-commies, ex-KGB, and their allies getting rich in the 90s was surely a pure coincidence.

Russian incompetent implementation of shock therapy ended up being a wealth transfer to ex-KGB and their allies. Then, people who benefited the most from it pinned all blame on the west. Russian populace and leftists in the west ate it up. Certain segments of the right began to buy into that narrative recently.
By the way, what were these relief programs you mention? This is the first time I am hearing about them. I know that Russia secured less foreign investment but that's because they refused to accept terms of the investors, unlike Balts, Czechs, and others. At least as far as I know.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Soviets had working ICBMs by 1961, even before their space program really kicked off. Given the state of Chinese space program, it's hard to believe they DON'T have ICBMs.

Shoot, probably by late 1959 since Korabl-Sputnik 2 was launched using an R-7 with a much heavier payload than the designated warhead. Kennedy was wise being conservative during the Missile Crisis.

The economy of USSR was too big to be salvaged purely by private investments (like Czech industry was, for example), and its economists were too incompetent to salvage it without extensive foreign aid and advice.

Size and more importantly time. This is the root reason why Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and the other former core USSR states (other than the Baltics*) had so much more severe economic difficulty compared to the Warsaw Pact states.

Industrialization in the USSR countries happened almost entirely after Communism which meant their entire economic and infrastructure development was driven by central planning and not market forces in any way, shape or form. In contrast, the Warsaw Pact states were already mostly to completely industrialized under market economies and the infrastructure was in place to support it in the future. So when the readjustment to market economies happened in the early 1990s, these states were far better suited to weather it than those with an economic base almost entirely built by central planning.

*Not 100% sure on these countries, I think they were already the most developed parts of Russia overall prior to the revolution so it was a continuation, even under the USSR the Baltics were the wealthiest SSRs overall, moreso than even the RSFSR.

 

[Standardized Profile]

If Russia wins and overthrows Zelensky, what happens? Yeah, Homosex will probably be illegal again

Except in the military, where it will be mandatory.

The Soviet Union was bad, but it was limited to Eastern Europe.

And Latin America, and Africa, and the Middle East, and Asia. But other than that, they kept to themselves.

I was wondering if there was anything new about the FSB Border Service explosion ten days ago. Various sources are saying a group called Black Bridge claimed responsibility on Telegram. They've apparently existed since August 2022, though there are reports of explosions in Rostov-on-Don for a few years before that. It seems to glow, but Russia has had its share of home grown terrorists. At least these ones attack the security apparatus rather than schools and operas.

And I want to praise it as a well-planned operation. Here's the target:




There's a wall. Check. And a vehicle inspection point on the northwest. So far, so good. Streetview shows the vehicle entrance on the southwest wall has a couple cameras, and what looks like unmanned vehicle and ped gates, though there could be guards on the other side. Did they have centrally monitored/backed-up cameras covering the perimeter where it was breached? I doubt it. They released the short circuit story immediately. If they had footage of the bomber, they would have disseminated it and asked the public for help. That area's crowded enough, I'm sure someone saw something and hates the idea of a massive conflagration more than they hate the FSB. But if you don't actively solicit information, people won't come forward, or the right people won't come forward.

The attackers knew how to get in and which building to burn. (I bet that office building wouldn't have been destroyed as thoroughly as the warehouse.) There is almost no free space around the complex, so lots of places to park a truck or a ladder for a few days, let the security people think it's normal. Lots of high places nearby from which to observe the pattern of life within and around the compound. They must have known which parts of the compound would not be under observation and when. Then it's a simple matter to lean a ladder against the wall, bring another ladder and your IED over the wall, emplace it, then unass the AO with all your gear. Once you're safely away, you send the signal to detonate the IED, or maybe a timer goes off. Boom.

Or maybe they coopted a delivery driver, I don't know.

The effects: Only one person died, so they don't have much blood on their hands. The border force's resources are diminished, which ought to worry the government, considering who's on the other side of the border. And they're now reacting instead of acting. The Border Service will have to reprogram its budget to fund new physical security measures at multiple sites, because they don't know which one might get hit next. Maybe the Border Service upgrades all its facilities, but the other elements of FSB don't, and Black Bridge attacks them--then the entire FSB will have to find the budget to review and upgrade their facilities. This kind of thing might be a McVeigh-level nuisance in peacetime, but when you're at war with your neighbor, and employing really draconian internal security measures because your people don't really like the war, attacks like this can be a real problem.

 

[74164978231]

Its not if you were/are at the receiving end of our guns, like say the iraqis, the serbians, half of LATAM, north vietnam, etc...

Yes, the US has been involved in a lot of dumbass wars and weve killed civilians then act like it was a good thing(see Miley and his "righteous strike") but even just from a pure numbers perspective its a drop in the bucket compared to the body count of the USSR or the CCP.

I'd prefer a physical death (even a gruesome one) over a psychological one. THEY seek to eliminate everything you and your own people stood for, erasing centuries of history and tradtition of a culture while you get to watch and they won't stop until everyone is completely spiritually empty without a set of morals that aren't pre-approved by our neo-liberal elite. It leaves you with nothing higher to hold onto in life except the pursuit of "happiness" which tends to be the most hedonistic, degenerate form of physical pleasure under their definition. Just try asking your average resident in San Francisco, Los Angeles or Berlin what their purpose in life is and what they want to achieve. They'll just say that they want to find "happiness" whatever they mean by that. And they will be happy eventually. And own nothing.
That is worse than a physical death imo.

You clearly need to do some reading on what went on under Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao etc. It wasnt some quick death when it was your time, many, countless suffered and endered ungodly amounts of torture for a long time before dying.

Yes pronouns are fucking retarded, but dealing with pronouns isnt as bad as watching your children starved to death because papa stalin's policies destroyed your food supply nor is it as bad as spending months or years in interrogation camps being tortured until youre finally executed.

One thing I really dont think people grasp about Russia is they arent really "better". Sure you dont have to worry about faggots and trannies, but that country is every bit thoroughly politically corrupt if not moreso than the US. You complain about the CIA here, you people forget Putin was a fucking KGB agent that the second the USSR collapsed he changed coats and magically become a powerful politician in Russia's second most important city?

 

[GoPro]

Shoot, probably by late 1959 since Korabl-Sputnik 2 was launched using an R-7 with a much heavier payload than the designated warhead. Kennedy was wise being conservative during the Missile Crisis.

Size and more importantly time. This is the root reason why Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and the other former core USSR states (other than the Baltics*) had so much more severe economic difficulty compared to the Warsaw Pact states.

Industrialization in the USSR countries happened almost entirely after Communism which meant their entire economic and infrastructure development was driven by central planning and not market forces in any way, shape or form. In contrast, the Warsaw Pact states were already mostly to completely industrialized under market economies and the infrastructure was in place to support it in the future. So when the readjustment to market economies happened in the early 1990s, these states were far better suited to weather it than those with an economic base almost entirely built by central planning.

*Not 100% sure on these countries, I think they were already the most developed parts of Russia overall prior to the revolution so it was a continuation, even under the USSR the Baltics were the wealthiest SSRs overall, moreso than even the RSFSR.

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were industrialized by Soviets. They were a part of the Soviet Union, fully integrated into Russian supply lies and infrastructure. Moscow tried to sabotage Balts several times after they gained independence. Russia put embargos and otherwise cut them out of Russian market and supply lines on and off throughout the 90s. Baltic states had to help each other, got some assistance from Poland, and were begging West for aid to mitigate effects of Russian behavior. That backfired on Russia as it only further motivated Baltic states' resolve to join NATO and EU even if some of them had to cede land to Russia to do it.

 

[RodgerDodger]

New perun, don't know if this one is early or late but it feels different than the usual release times.

He had posted that he was running a day late this week.

 

[Disheveled-Human]

NATO and the Globohomo are really good at war. They whipped up a small military into fighting shape and with some monetary investments gave them the capability to effectively defend against the so called second strongest military on the planet. China and Russia are fucking cooked if the west and NATO decide its time to take the gloves off, they will turn the Chinese gay lmao.

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

Moscow tried to sabotage Balts several times after they gained independence. Russia put embargos and otherwise cut them out of Russian market and supply lines on and off throughout the 90s. Baltic states had to help each other, got some assistance from Poland, and were begging West for aid to mitigate effects of Russian behavior. That backfired on Russia as it only further motivated Baltic states' resolve to join NATO and EU even if some of them had to cede land to Russia to do it.

That's interesting. Wikipedia (shit source, I know) tells me that Estonia had Russian troops for a while, but I can't find anything in there about an embargo. There's a blockade mentioned on Lithuania, though.

 

[cybertoaster]

You cut out the part where I explained why and then ask me why? Come on, man.

And you cut the part where I explained why your idea makes no sense, ukraine despite what russian propaganda has to say its not a western asset nor something the west can't afford to lose, unlike taiwan for example.

If you think they're just going stand aside as Russia burns down millions in nuclear fire and turns their backyard into a radioactive wasteland

Its exactly what we're gonna do because its gonna take about 40 nukes to do that and they will have another 6000. We can barely get most of the population to stop bitching about giving chump change to ukraine (we gave over 100 billion to the government of afghanistan alone and for what?) and you think they will support a full nuclear retaliation after seeing 4k footage of ukranians with radiation burns knowing they would be next? Are you shitting me?

We will completely block russia, sanction everything that can possibly be sanctioned and the country will become a chinese satellite if not entire engulfed by it, this giving the chinese all the energy and raw materials they could possibly need.

The reason the brits didn't nuke the Argentines was because they didn't need to.

They already had SLBMs with nukes loaded, again we intervened for the reasons I already stated. The brits had more casualties in the land war than the argentines did, most of their casualties came from that cruiser that got hit in what some still argue was a naval sucker punch since it was outside the zone or whatever. Point is shit wasn't going "just fine" for the brits, and there was presure on the argentines to cut it out too.

When you look at transition to capitalism, it went overall well everywhere

Most of eastern europe was a shithole during the 90's, those countries only got on their feet thanks to the EU and german money, else they would still be poor.

The supposed American puppet Yeltsin

Never said he was a puppet, I said we got him reelected when he was clearly going to lose.

Also suggesting that nuke aren't overrated like C weapons hundred years ago.

This is so fucking retarded I'm not even gonna bother with the rest of the abysmal shit you just wrote.

Like someone said in another post it will show that Putin is unhinged and if he is willing to use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine that means he will use them anywhere

Unhinged would be using them on a nato country like poland, or even worse a nuclear country like france. Using them on a non-nuclear country its exactly what israel almost did during yom kippur but the soviets intervened and we agreed to give them more free shit, which when you think about it its the same thing that happens when n.korea tries to start some shit.

If he even thinks about it someone in Russia will probably have him taken out.

Nobody will take him out because he already got rid of anyone who could do that years ago, thats why his entire administration its full of corrupt yes men putting rubber blocks on ERA armor and rotting tires on SAM systems.

And all those fuckers know that if putin falls then they fall will him, so they rather prop him out.

but even just from a pure numbers perspective its a drop in the bucket compared to the body count of the USSR or the CCP.

Again, nobody cares when its done against a country's own population, nobody cares for example about all the german dissidents that hitler killed. We barely even care about the holodomor now because of the war but before that nobody even know what it was, you had western lefties giving the finger to holodomor memorials and taking pics, you think any got arrested because of that?