Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[SpergioLeonne]

It was Nixon, not Carter that recognized Red China. After he did it, Taiwan was fucked and because he never signed an actual defense treaty it's just a matter of time before China hoover they up. The Taiwanese know this themselves which is why politicians have been starving their military of funds for the last 20 years.

For example they still haven't built the SSK's using the technology transfer that US republicans pushed through congress in 2000. That was a massive issue in the US at the time and a lot of US politicians risked the wrath of Chinese 'lobbyists' by voting for it, only for Taiwan to then do nothing about actually building them. Even though they could have just given the contract directly to a US shipyard.

It WAS Nixon. I think Carter gets shit because the last year the US had a trade surplus was 1979, so that marker lines up with him.

We can keep blaming ever successive president from Nixon onward, though, because they’ve all maintained the status quo of destroying American manufacturing

 

[DumbDude43]

They don't feel shame for being married to men who bombs kids, I'd count that as a major disqualifier.

aircraft pilots dont declare wars nor do they have any say in what operations they get to fly
these are not wives of shoigu and gerasimov tier decision makers

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

aircraft pilots dont declare wars nor do they have any say in what operations they get to fly
these are not wives of shoigu and gerasimov tier decision makers

They could walk away and face whatever consequences that would imply, but they would rather bomb kids. Miss me with that bullshit.

 

[MG-34]

aircraft pilots dont declare wars nor do they have any say in what operations they get to fly
these are not wives of shoigu and gerasimov tier decision makers

In most sane militaries you are told to disobey an immoral or illgeal order. In the US Theres several mundane but manditory briefings about Geneva and Hauge conventions for military members. This is why the guys at Abu Graib got convicted despite carrying the orders of the glowniggers over them. They also could have purposely dumped their ordinance off target or veer over to Ukraine and surrender. Dropping a bomb on a structure with "Children" spray painted on it isn't a good idea.

 

[DumbDude43]

In most sane militaries you are told to disobey an immoral or illgeal order. In the US Theres several mundane but manditory briefings about Geneva and Hauge conventions for military members. This is why the guys at Abu Graib got convicted despite carrying the orders of the glowniggers over them. They also could have purposely dumped their ordinance off target or veer over to Ukraine and surrender. Dropping a bomb on a structure with "Children" spray painted on it isn't a good idea.

pilots get orders like "attack enemies located in building X at (YYY.YYYY, ZZZ.ZZZZ) coordinates, strike from AB direction then leave along CD trajectory and return to airfield" they don't do their own intel and target ID

not comparable to abu ghraib which as far as i remember was about a group of guards on site going rogue and mutilating prisoners for fun, without commanders knowing about it, let alone ordering them to do it

 

[Snekposter]

It WAS Nixon. I think Carter gets shit because the last year the US had a trade surplus was 1979, so that marker lines up with him.

We can keep blaming ever successive president from Nixon onward, though, because they’ve all maintained the status quo of destroying American manufacturing

Nixon's whole plan was to use China as a lever against Russia, not sell off our manufacturing base to them. That came later with Bush 41 and then Clinton sold them everything that wasn't nailed down, and then everything that was and the nails that went with them.

 

[Clownish]

pilots get orders like "attack enemies located in building X at (YYY.YYYY, ZZZ.ZZZZ) coordinates, strike from AB direction then leave along CD trajectory and return to airfield" they don't do their own intel and target ID

Sheeeit Nigga! I dindu nuffen. Dem gubment told me ta bomb da building with Children written on da ground. Ya know a Nigga like me cant read!

 

[Ghostse]

i think it's the opposite. i think finland kept out of nato because the expectation was that if russia would go to war then it would be against NATO, not against some minor non-aligned neighbor, so staying non-aligned was seen as the best way to avoid negative attention from russia.
but the 2022 invasion showed that minor non-aligned neighbors are in fact at higher risk of russian invasion than NATO states are, so now becoming part of NATO is seen as the best way to avoid negative attention from russia. that's why they now want to join.

That what pretty much what I was saying.
During the coldwar, Finland didn't have any terroritorial issues with Russia. Russia didn't want to drive Finland into NATO. The northern front was also unlikely to be very active. If Finland joined NATO, when shit popped off they'd HAVE To be on the front line for nukes and attacks, Russia couldn't leave them alone.
Additionally if the USSR decided to invade a neutral country for no reason, the whole world was going to turn on the USSR and aid Finland. By staying out of NATO they were safer.

Finnish military had several treaties with the US and, like post-exit France, had understandings that they'd throw in with the Allies against the USSR if shit popped off, they just didn't want to be a part of the initial exchange and wanted the flexibility to determine their level of commitment if they felt Russia had a point.

Putin has now shown that's not a stance that you can take in CURRENT YEAR when you share a border with Russia.

are they wearing their husbands uniform jackets and medals?

Hello, I see this is your first time observing the creatures known as "Officer's Wife".

 

[No. 7 cat]

It's funny watching them threaten countries with "retaliation" when they're so impotent. It's like they think it's 1970 or something.

Nobody's afraid of Russia anymore. Anything and everything these countries can do to antagonize them is well worth it because they can't do anything about it. It'd be nice if Finland could reclaim the territory Russia stole from it in another one of its wars of aggression.

Need to awaken Carl XII, as a Swedish King Arthur.




Gvardeisky, Crimea

Denys Davydov Telegram

More Crimean 'mysterious explosions', probably drone stuff.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

allegedly T55 with Kontakt-5 armor

any tank nerds can confirm?

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Nixon's whole plan was to use China as a lever against Russia, not sell off our manufacturing base to them. That came later with Bush 41 and then Clinton sold them everything that wasn't nailed down, and then everything that was and the nails that went with them.

I don’t think Nixon was GENERALLY as bad as history makes him out to be, but he owns the whole shit of offshoring to China. I’m just not going to parse that he laid the framework but the OTHER guy did the WORSE. The point is, he laid the framework. Was he short sighted or evil? I’m going with “lazy.”

He drank the Kissinger kool aid, and now we’ve impoverished ourselves to build China into the planet’s main geopolitical antagonist, who is allied with Russia anyways.

 

[MG-34]

pilots get orders like "attack enemies located in building X at (YYY.YYYY, ZZZ.ZZZZ) coordinates, strike from AB direction then leave along CD trajectory and return to airfield" they don't do their own intel and target ID

not comparable to abu ghraib which as far as i remember was about a group of guards on site going rogue and mutilating prisoners for fun, without commanders knowing about it, let alone ordering them to do it

Its been awhile since I looked into this but Abu Graib's detachment allegedly was taking instruction from CIA and CID agents to gain information. That one iconic picture of the hooded Iraqi connected with wires in a pool of water and standing on a tire to avoid being shocked looks too elaborate for some young MP dumdums to construct. IIRC the CIA didn't cooperate with any investigation.

On your other point, the Russians weren't using PGMs at Mariupol and were using dumb bombs like FAB-500s in an urban area. I'm not a pilot or a weapon system operator but I'd assume they'd have to visually ID the target and maybe pass by once it to see where it's going. It's not like it was contested airspace at that point.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

allegedly T55 with Kontakt-5 armorView attachment 4918481
any tank nerds can confirm?

Photo is copyrighted by the dude running this blog: https://www.vitalykuzmin.net/
These T55's are apparently fairly old, this modernization was introduced all the way in 2001: https://topwar.ru/25222-osnovnoy-tank-iz-srednego-modernizaciya-t-55.html
I'm not sure where this specific photo is from and when it was taken, but it's possible there's a few of these they could be activating, I'll try to find more.
According to the article, what they've shown was actually a mockup. And surprise surprise... they couldn't afford this modernization program.

 

[Snekposter]

I don’t think Nixon was GENERALLY as bad as history makes him out to be, but he owns the whole shit of offshoring to China. I’m just not going to parse that he laid the framework but the OTHER guy did the WORSE. The point is, he laid the framework. Was he short sighted or evil? I’m going with “lazy.”

He drank the Kissinger kool aid, and now we’ve impoverished ourselves to build China into the planet’s main geopolitical antagonist, who is allied with Russia anyways.

What framework? That he talked to someone we shared an enemy with to build rapport? I do not get where this level of blaming Nixon for the poor choices of much later presidents comes from. At the time it was a brilliant diplomatic maneuver and you're saying he's to blame for everything that came after because he should have precognitively known that 20 years later some Arkansas hick would sell off half the country to them for peanuts?

 

[Clownish]

Soldiers of the special unit Centuria from the 3rd Assault Brigade attack Russians with the BGM-71H-1RF Bunker Buster wireless TOW 2A missile.

We finally get to see a Humvee TOW being used.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I don’t think Nixon was GENERALLY as bad as history makes him out to be, but he owns the whole shit of offshoring to China. I’m just not going to parse that he laid the framework but the OTHER guy did the WORSE. The point is, he laid the framework. Was he short sighted or evil? I’m going with “lazy.”

He drank the Kissinger kool aid, and now we’ve impoverished ourselves to build China into the planet’s main geopolitical antagonist, who is allied with Russia anyways.

Part of it is nobody in 1972 expected things to develop like they did over the following decades. China in 1972 was planned economy,Mao suits and bicycles, still recovering from the chaos of the Cultural Revolution. The USSR was the world's other superpower and second largest economy, and hadn't yet really entered economic stagnation. The Chinese were seen as a valuable partner to drive a wedge in the Communist world between the Sino/Soviet camps even further.

Flash forward two decades and the USSR's gone, Japan is the world's #2 economy, China is opening and slowly gaining share as a manufacturing powerhouse but is still tiny in comparison to the United States' economy. Another decade later, China's in the WTO and Japan has fallen into economic stagnation. Another decade, China's now #2...

Plus too many people for way too long clung to the fallacy that "freer markets equal freer people" when by any stretch of the imagination China's economic development and reform has significantly strengthened its government's power to control its citizens.

 

[No. 7 cat]

I don’t think Nixon was GENERALLY as bad as history makes him out to be, but he owns the whole shit of offshoring to China. I’m just not going to parse that he laid the framework but the OTHER guy did the WORSE. The point is, he laid the framework. Was he short sighted or evil? I’m going with “lazy.”

He drank the Kissinger kool aid, and now we’ve impoverished ourselves to build China into the planet’s main geopolitical antagonist, who is allied with Russia anyways.

PRC is utterly dependant on energy and food imports, unlike RF which isn't. Their military record since Korea is worst than Russia. And their balls could be squeezed by a few Presidential decisions or simply by messing with their vast imports or trade access (see the swift and moderate effective sanctions against RF which surely China notes carefully so no Tianamen Square stuff ever again which Erich Honecker so liked that he sent congrats to Red China). This is probably somewhat by design as (at least formerly before soaring labor costs from One Child and other issues) PRC could be America's workshop even if it used some shrill words over Republic of China / Taiwan. Still, the heft of Red China whether in areas of Africa which have long been French or British leaning (with no annoying and hypocritical human rights nonsense, which France once avoided), the subversion from those college Confucius Institutes and apps like TikTok have created issues where there should've been none.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

What framework? That he talked to someone we shared an enemy with to build rapport? I do not get where this level of blaming Nixon for the poor choices of much later presidents comes from. At the time it was a brilliant diplomatic maneuver and you're saying he's to blame for everything that came after because he should have precognitively known that 20 years later some Arkansas hick would sell off half the country to them for peanuts?

You do realize that “opening relations” came with draft trade deals, right? It wasn’t just “diplomatic recognition”? That’s why it only took a couple years after for us to enter permanent trade defecit.

And the country never would’ve let a democrat normalize relations with a communist dictatorship. They would’ve rightfully called anyone who tried it a commie.

 

[NSJAP]

Real

 

[Trig.Point]

In most sane militaries you are told to disobey an immoral or illgeal order. In the US Theres several mundane but manditory briefings about Geneva and Hauge conventions for military members. This is why the guys at Abu Graib got convicted despite carrying the orders of the glowniggers over them. They also could have purposely dumped their ordinance off target or veer over to Ukraine and surrender. Dropping a bomb on a structure with "Children" spray painted on it isn't a good idea.

The people convicted for what happened at Abu Graib were all reservists, the stupid bitch who was in charge of the facility didn't seem to have a clue as to what the soldier under her command were doing. She didn't even keep a log of the CIA contractors (glowniggers) who were visiting and interrogating prisoners. I suspect regular soldiers particularly ones looking after their pension would have kept their distance, or at the very least fired off an email or put something in the occurrence book.

What framework? That he talked to someone we shared an enemy with to build rapport? I do not get where this level of blaming Nixon for the poor choices of much later presidents comes from. At the time it was a brilliant diplomatic maneuver and you're saying he's to blame for everything that came after because he should have precognitively known that 20 years later some Arkansas hick would sell off half the country to them for peanuts?

He sold out Taiwan (and defacto Hong Kong) laid the framework for Chinas entry into international trade on their own terms, and in return China gave him..... Fuck All.. They'd already split with the USSR, so that doesn't count.

Hello, I see this is your first time observing the creatures known as "Officer's Wife".

What's the betting they'll have lined themselves, up based on the rank of their respective husband.