Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Ghostse]

Yeah I hate seeing videos of even Russian troops getting artied/droned.
Only 'good' thing is that maybe, maybe their relatives will demand Putin's head. I'd rather they just surrender, or their leaders would pull them back to own country.

You forgot one thing.....
View attachment 4945965

Russians do love playing chess...

 

[Slav Power]

Yeah, yeah. Double post I know. At this point, the private Russian soldier needs to be counted as a victim of his own government’s disregard and incompetence.

Honestly you could say that about every soldier of any country fighting in any war ever. Every dead soldier is a direct result of his government engaging in idiotic wars that only benefit the government at the citizen's/soldier's expense.

Personally I'm more confused that a forum founded in large part on mocking the suffering of the weak and which has a rich and literal decade spanning tradition of mocking and demeaning he victims of genocide, terrorism, molestation, and anything else /pol/ or the general edgy shitpost sphere finds hilarious, suddenly is full of moral and upstanding goodguys who think demeaning an invading army, and indeed a literal and unironic dirlewanger brigade of an invading army at that, is a step too far

Speaking for myself, I dont see why I should show such individuals who at the *very least* are complicit with the nightmare shit we have seen be done to civilians in occupied regions and ukrainian POWs the clemency I would deny patrick s tomlinson due to him being a fat faggot with bitch tits

Probably because this site was founded to mock an autistic idiot whose suffering was for the most part a result of his own idiocy, and not because he's been sent to fight a war he didn't want to take part in and became completely mentally scarred for the rest of his life and/or dead because of it.

For example, Drachenlord fucking his life over because of an autistic impulse to yell out his address and constantly engaging with the trolls giving them reason to continue is funny.

A man getting mentally and physically scarred for life because he's been sent to a war because his president wants to take over the world isn't. And it's definitely not gratifying.

I especially do not understand how mentally unwell those people who constantly browse those compilation of "dead orcs" are. You're looking at dead bodies of men and you find it gratifying? Not entertaining in the sense gore is entertaining because it shocks you, gratifying because you see "an enemy" in a dead man?

This of course goes for both sides. If you find any dead body of any soldier as something gratifying because he's from "the enemy side", especially if you're not from a country directly involved in the conflict, you should be isolated from society and sent to a mental institution.

 

[Pork Packer]

Probably because this site was founded to mock an autistic idiot whose suffering was for the most part a result of his own idiocy, and not because he's been sent to fight a war he didn't want to take part in and became completely mentally scarred for the rest of his life and/or dead because of it.

Given he is wagner, he actively chose this shit rather than finish his sentence. If he aint wagner and is a volunteer, he actively chose this shit rather than work at a russian dennys. If he aint wagner or a volunteer but a conscript, he actively chose this shit rather than take whatever jail sentence is being handed out for refusing to go to the front, to go into hiding, or to GTFO from russia entirely, or hell maybe even do something constructive and frag his overseers and bail to ukrainian lines.

Chris Chan, for all his sins, did not choose to be autistic.

A man getting mentally and physically scarred for life because he's been sent to a war because his president wants to take over the world isn't. And it's definitely not gratifying.

I never said it was gratifying, I just see no reason to pull any punches or to refrain making cheap jokes and shitposts at their expense when the opportunity arises. I have been making exceedingly uncharitable comments about holocaust victims, 9/11 victims, among many other groups who suffered horrific shit for nearly twenty years now for my own amusement when the mood strikes me, so why exactly would I be merciful to Michael J Fox over there?

I especially do not understand how mentally unwell those people who constantly browse those compilation of "dead orcs" are. You're looking at dead bodies of men and you find it gratifying? Not entertaining in the sense gore is entertaining because it shocks you, gratifying because you see "an enemy" in a dead man?

This of course goes for both sides. If you find any dead body of any soldier as something gratifying because he's from "the enemy side", especially if you're not from a country directly involved in the conflict, you should be isolated from society and sent to a mental institution.

I dont think I have ever encountered such a specimen in the wild thus far, even before the war began and who might have hypothetically been actively going out of their way to consoom piles of footage of dead nazis from WW2 or dead kebabs or burgerland soldiers from iraq of afghanistan and going out of their way to wade through collections of corpse photos just to laugh at them. I just see people making the usual jokes and cheap quips they have made about a hundred mass slaughters before as photos and clips of this latest shitshow cross their screens.

Sure they may exist, just like there may exist a number of people who actively seek out footage of pedoforks getting gunned down or butchered in jail to whack off to, but I aint letting their degeneracy taint my casual enjoyment of human suffering

 

[Corette]

I'd rather they just surrender,

Drones or tanks can't really take prisoners.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

To be frank, in case of Wagner, unless it's cannon fodder from prison, it's most certainly a merc who CHOSE to come there, most likely for money, to kill for money. I don't feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt or extend them any sort of courtesy, who knows how many good men defending their country from the invaders died by their hand.
I hate seeing people suffer even if they're complete scum, because I'm empathetic like that. I can only hope they have enough sense left to regret their decision and rethink their priorities in life after going through hell and being captured.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Given he is wagner, he actively chose this shit rather than finish his sentence. If he aint wagner and is a volunteer, he actively chose this shit rather than work at a russian dennys. If he aint wagner or a volunteer but a conscript, he actively chose this shit rather than take whatever jail sentence is being handed out for refusing to go to the front, to go into hiding, or to GTFO from russia entirely, or hell maybe even do something constructive and frag his overseers and bail to ukrainian lines.

Realistically though, they'd be brutalized even worse in prison than on the front lines. The Russian state is going out of its way to torment deserters and those who refuse to enlist, on top of the already inhumane conditions in that country's prisons.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Interview with Ukraines Zoomer Bombers.

 

[Ghostse]

Drones or tanks can't really take prisoners.

That's where you're wrong, chief. Drones took prisoners in 90s.

Humans surrendered to a robot for the first time in 1991

We tend to think of unmanned aerial vehicles, also known as “drones,” as a relatively recent development in the world of advanced battlefield intelligence

www.wearethemighty.com

 

[AgendaPoster]

Not just cold or the PTSD: Russian/Wagner merc with a bad case of shell-shock, of a severity I haven't really seen outside footage of veterans from WW1/2 (along with Korea).
View attachment 4945406

Edit: he may also be having opiate withdrawals, as many of them are also junkies; besides shock, it's the only other thing I've seen make people shake that badly if they're not actually freezing.

Pupils are normal/miotic, when you enter such severe withdrawals you'd have mydriasis instead. I heard Wagner fucks them up if they get high or drunk, although I assume for the convicts they used to push to the enemy positions they would care less.
Opiate addiction is hard to maintain on the frontlines, first you have no privacy, dozing off while you can get attacked is criminal towards your mates and yourself, shooting up in these dirty conditions, in the cold, should be quite difficult, so only pills might be viable, but who would give these people massive amounts of that crap.
He looks to be in shock. Maybe wounded too.
Idiots, went to this hell, instead of facing Putin's acolytes in Moscow and getting a better life and future for their children.

 

[Pork Packer]

To be frank, in case of Wagner, unless it's cannon fodder from prison, it's most certainly a merc who CHOSE to come there, most likely for money, to kill for money. I don't feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt or extend them any sort of courtesy, who knows how many good men defending their country from the invaders died by their hand.
I hate seeing people suffer even if they're complete scum, because I'm empathetic like that. I can only hope they have enough sense left to regret their decision and rethink their priorities in life after going through hell and being captured.

Sure, there is no reason to bring genuine personal hatred onto any of them unless the have individually done/allowed evil shit. My angle is that the are no more deserving of a pass on being mocked/shitposted at than anyone else whose choices led them to being in a shitty situation, and if they are able to get out alive and have managed not to directly do any evil shit I see no reason to keep throwing shit at them.

Realistically though, they'd be brutalized even worse in prison than on the front lines. The Russian state is going out of its way to torment deserters and those who refuse to enlist, on top of the already inhumane conditions in that country's prisons.

In which case they are still choosing to assist in an aggressive war of conquest against a country that has done absolutely fucking nothing to them, poses zero threat to its neighbors, has not engaged in anything remotely resembling atrocities that justify invasion, and whose worst sins are being one of dozens of corrupt and dysfunctional post-soviet states that is still struggling to make the leap to the first world.

Sure, I can understand why they have done so, I can hardly hold it against them that they value their own lives and the livelihood of their families above those of ukrainians, and hell were I in their position I could not truly say whether I would be brave enough to go to third-world hell jail over letting myself be conscripted, but they have still forfeited their right to be considered innocent in this shit, and I see no reason to give them a pass I would gleefully deny literal anne-frank with regards to dickish shitposts

 

[Jewthulhu]

That's where you're wrong, chief. Drones took prisoners in 90s.

Humans surrendered to a robot for the first time in 1991

We tend to think of unmanned aerial vehicles, also known as “drones,” as a relatively recent development in the world of advanced battlefield intelligence

www.wearethemighty.com

TBF the Iraqis who weren't part of the Republican Guard surrendered to pretty much everything.

 

[Ghostse]

TBF the Iraqis who weren't part of the Republican Guard surrendered to pretty much everything.

Buddy I'd be surrendering to a guy on a riding lawnmower if that was the noise that preceeded 16-inch rain falling on me.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

Pupils are normal/miotic, when you enter such severe withdrawals you'd have mydriasis instead. I heard Wagner fucks them up if they get high or drunk, although I assume for the convicts they used to push to the enemy positions they would care less.
Opiate addiction is hard to maintain on the frontlines, first you have no privacy, dozing off while you can get attacked is criminal towards your mates and yourself, shooting up in these dirty conditions, in the cold, should be quite difficult, so only pills might be viable, but who would give these people massive amounts of that crap.
He looks to be in shock. Maybe wounded too.
Idiots, went to this hell, instead of facing Putin's acolytes in Moscow and getting a better life and future for their children.

It also snowed in Bahkmut a couple of days ago and is literally freezing and moist

 

[mindlessobserver]

It really does need to be noticed how different the videos and photos of the Ukrainian soldiers are to their Russian counterpoints. Even in official government propaganda from both sides. Most of the Russian Soldiers barely look enthused, and are often outfitted in kit that looks like its 60 years old. Even in official photos.

The Ukrainians by contrast are usually a bunch of fresh faced young idealists interspersed with some really stone cold mother fuckers. The propaganda photos always shows their troops outfitted in modern gear to look like proper operators, and even off the cuff photos don't display the same level of desperation the Russian mobiks show, even if its a photo of territorial guards troops riding around in a Skoda van.


Ukraine Propaganda photo of its troops.


Russian Propaganda Photo of its troops


Just comparing the two photos, two things jump out immediately. I am seeing two different standards of chest plate equipment and three different helmet models. Some soldiers have gloves, others do not. There are also two different camo patterns. All in a single squad.

Compare this to the Ukraine Photo. Same chest plates. Same Helmets. Same Camo Patterns. You also have the two young guys in the Ukraine photo clearly being led by Sergeant Hard Ass who is in front, while in the Russia photo I guarantee the man in charge is that fat troll all the way in the back.

All anecdotal of course, but I bet this picture analysis can be recreated quite frequently.

 

[Clownish]

Since we are talking about young men being dragged into war, here is a video Roman uploaded of his life before and during the war. He is now fighting in Bakhmut with the 3rd Assault Brigade.

Instagram: romantrokhymets

 

[Ghostse]

This is a common sentiment with Vatniks, they boast about it like Ukraine should be ashamed they're receiving equipment. It's war, you're going to want every leg up you can find. The seething about NATO equipment just makes me wish we gave even more.

Its not like Russia isn't begging Iran for more "recon" drones, or deepthroating Xi to smuggle in some more chips, or food-for-weaponsing the fucking Norks of all people.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Just comparing the two photos, two things jump out immediately. I am seeing two different standards of chest plate equipment and three different helmet models. Some soldiers have gloves, others do not. There are also two different camo patterns. All in a single squad.

In general the sheer lack of planning and unpreparedness on Russia's part prior to starting this war is incredible. There wasn't a single level-headed person in the government or military, who, even if they thought the war was a stupid idea to begin woth, would have at least suggested the country prepare for a large-scale invasion before starting it?

No wargaming or alternate plans in the event the rapid strike failed? The Allies felt confident in ultimate victory over Germany but they still rehearsed and planned out Operation Overlord for a year prior to launching it. And even then Eisenhower still wrote up an alternative speech in the event the landings failed.

Russia's handled this about as well as Iraq handled Iran, and we were arming the Iraqis!

 

[mindlessobserver]

View attachment 4947940

Since we are talking about young men being dragged into war, here is a video Roman uploaded of his life before and during the war. He is now fighting in Bakhmut with the 3rd Assault Brigade.

Instagram: romantrokhymets

I think the one thing that has really shocked the Russians more then anything else is just how HARD the Ukrainian elites decided to go against them, to the point of sending their sons like the above to the front. I don't think any in Putin's inner patronage circle saw that one coming. The idea of putting it all on the line for the country is probably an incredibly alien concept to people who view the country solely as a resource extraction point to pay for their lifestyle in London and Dubai.

If you were to pigeonhole those Ukrainian oligarch families and their own patronage network they will admit that not participating would put them at an extremely disadvantageous position after the war. Plus, any Son that hid under mothers skirts instead of fighting in these times will never get ahead in their future careers in government and business. So you can argue there is still hard nosed self interest at work. The problem for Russia though is these families believe their interests lie in sticking it to Russia. So either way its not good for Putin.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

In general the sheer lack of planning and unpreparedness on Russia's part prior to starting this war is incredible. There wasn't a single level-headed person in the government or military, who, even if they thought the war was a stupid idea to begin woth, would have at least suggested the country prepare for a large-scale invasion before starting it?

No wargaming or alternate plans in the event the rapid strike failed? The Allies felt confident in ultimate victory over Germany but they still rehearsed and planned out Operation Overlord for a year prior to launching it. And even then Eisenhower still wrote up an alternative speech in the event the landings failed.

Russia's handled this about as well as Iraq handled Iran, and we were arming the Iraqis!

I'm not as surprised by the incompetence, being Russian and all, especially one who got to see the army from within. I was more surprised by the fact that it happened at all, but I tried my best to ignore the topic of Ukraine throughout these years, as there was nothing I could do anyway.
I just assumed it's going to be a small scale forever conflict in Donbass like it's Afghanistan.

 

[mindlessobserver]

I'm not as surprised by the incompetence, being Russian and all, especially one who got to see the army from within. I was more surprised by the fact that it happened at all, but I tried my best to ignore the topic of Ukraine throughout these years, as there was nothing I could do anyway.
I just assumed it's going to be a small scale forever conflict in Donbass like it's Afghanistan.

TBH so did everyone else. Ukraine was supposed to fall in 2 weeks. Even the USA assumed it would. Everything was geared towards an Afghanistan style insurgency. Not a full on Slav World War 1. The Russian Army could get away with alot of shit precisely because it had never, and ostensibly never would, get into a great power war with a peer power. If it actually got into a fight with the USA there would be nukes so in the end and deficiencies would never matter.

The problem for Russia however is the grift did not stop, even in the lead up to the war. According to observers in Belarus the Russian soldiers were so convinced by the propaganda that there would be no war they sold all their fucking diesel on the black market. You know, that fuel they needed to get troops to Kiev on the Double Quick. Par for the course, they lied to their superiors about how much fuel the troops ACTUALLY had, so the orders came down to invade, charge down the highway to Kiev and shocking to all, hundreds of tanks, APCs and trucks ran out of Fuel in the Kiev Suburbs and turned into stationary targets for every Ukrainian with a rocket launcher or a tractor.

And there was no Plan B. There couldn't be. The Russian Army is incapable of a protracted great power war in its current configuration. Especially one where it can't fall back on Nukes. Putin can threaten nukes all day but he can't fire them. If he gave the order there is a very good chance it will be disobeyed and he gets taken out in a coup. Using Nukes against a non-nuclear power would end Russia geopolitically. Even China would not be able to back that shit up, and it guarantees intervention by the USA directly because the USA is obligated to defend Ukraine if its attacked by nukes.