Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[thog]

A Calvinist from Scotland.
That’s basically it. Same religious movement as the Congregationalists (Puritans, Anglo-Saxon), Huguenots (French), and the Dutch and Swiss Reformed.

Like all old Calvinists they’re boring.

Presbyterians are kind of odd. Half of my family is Presbyterian but I don't think a single one of them believes in predestination. In fact, I don't think I've met a single Presbyterian who believes in predestination. I've only ever encountered Calvinists online.

Perhaps it's just because American Christians don't really believe in anything at all these days.

 

[FailurePersonifiedV2]

Link
(I learnt how to archive)

Thanks!

I don’t like how this male-pretender is using Jesus like He’s some sort of symbol of oppression. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice to SAVE, not a martyr, a savior.

He laid His life down for us, it was His choice. He was beaten and bruised, tortured and subsequently killed, but He did it willingly, and He did it out of love.

Not some tranny with a death wish and definitely not because of, “reee I can’t take it anymore!” coupled with mental illness.
Will your beloved Hale rise again?

 

[Haffhart]

Who is the antichrist going to be? I used to think it was Vincent Mcman.

The antichrist is going to be a person of Jewish descent (because the Jews will recognize him as the Messiah, who is required to be a descendant of King David. Of course, it's actually Jesus but the Antichrist will also be descended from King David) and someone that will rebuild the Third Temple. There's a lot of signs that haven't happened yet for it to truly be the End Times, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep watch nor should you ignore the importance of loving God above all things and loving your neighbor as yourself.

My personal theory is that the antichrist will be America's first Jewish (or openly Jewish) president.

It useless to try predicting Doomsday. The End Times are a lot like the fall of Kiwi Farms: always coming but never here. But you'll know it when you see it.

 

[You Stupid Fucking Chud]

Revelations already happened bro

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

Revelations already happened bro

To be fair, that isn't completely wrong. Revelations was written about the eternal struggle between Christ and the Anti-Christ and at the time that it was written, it was perceived that Nero was the Anti-Christ due to his persecution of Christians. That's why 666 is associated with the Anti-Christ; it is the numerical value of Nero's name (in either the Hebrew or Roman numeral system, I forget).

My shitpost answer is:
It's not your fault. You've been in a comma for 11 years, John. Revalations already happened and Jesus Christ reigns Heaven and Earth forever dude.

 

[Sissyagamben]

It useless to try predicting Doomsday. The End Times are a lot like the fall of Kiwi Farms: always coming but never here. But you'll know it when you see it.

coming just as a thief in the night… I very much believ that by predicting it we are jinxing it.

How’s y’all Good Friday going? How was your Lent? I managed to stop drinking, only slipped up when good fren came to visit from fat away.

 

[YourFriendlyLurker 2.0]

Perhaps, instead of sperging another 100 pages on gays, trannies, leftism, trump (yes, it will come to that), and other shit, this thread could concentrate on some actual theological questions?

1) Predestination. Do you accept predestination? In what form?
2) Trinity. How do you personally understand the concept of the Trinity? What trinity means for you? Do you think Christianity even needed Trinity as a concept in the first place?
3) Theodicea. Why evil exists? Why God allows evil to exist if he is omnipotent? Is the endlosung for evil even possible?
4) The concepts of heaven and hell. How do you envision those "places"? Do you believe in the individual salvation or immortality of one individual soul?
5) Do you think Christianity should be centralized or not? Do Christians need a Pope or a Patriarch?

 

[A-Stump]

I think all the focus on the devil and the antichrist is dumb. It's my personal belief that Jesus owned the devil big time and that people use him as a crutch for being unable to accept their own personal responsibility and the weight of sin. I've noticed that's more prevalent with Baptists than anyone else. By blaming the evil of the world on the devil you'll never truly atone and that's the whole point. It's like saying Jesus didn't rise above it all and absolve mankind.

I don't know if I'm really talking sense because I have a dumb retard brain but it really razzles my dazzles.

 

[TIM4EUS]

Perhaps, instead of sperging another 100 pages on gays, trannies, leftism, trump (yes, it will come to that), and other shit, this thread could concentrate on some actual theological questions?

3) Theodicea. Why evil exists? Why God allows evil to exist if he is omnipotent? Is the endlosung for evil even possible?

to paraphrase the beliefs of the gnostic christians:

"all of existence is in the mind of God, this is all a dream"

the implications of this are that God wishes to fully experience everything that can be experienced*, the highs and the lows, the good and the bad etc. reality is all about duality, being able to savor all experiences through the presence of their opposites. evil exists because every good story needs an antagonist, only in this way can you truly appreciate the good.

all the other stuff in christianity is an exoteric belief that is packaged in a simple "good/bad, punishments/rewards" that anybody can understand, its not necessary for people to know the highest truth in order to live a good life. the higher esoteric message is hidden and more abstract, and its that way on purpose because the majority of people cannot/will not appreciate it, its just way too deep.

*God has this experience by splitting apart into me, you and everything else and temporarily forgetting that he's God. "salvation" are the individual pieces of God awakening and realizing/remembering that this is all a dream

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

It useless to try predicting Doomsday. The End Times are a lot like the fall of Kiwi Farms: always coming but never here. But you'll know it when you see it.

Doesn't the Bible outright tell you not to predict the end times?

 

[Betonhaus]

Doesn't the Bible outright tell you not to predict the end times?

Doesn't stop people from trying.

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

Doesn't the Bible outright tell you not to predict the end times?

It literally does, which is a good enough reason not to care about it too much and to care about how you act in the here and now. Christ can come any second and you don't want to be caught with your pants down.

 

[Agent Sandoval]

Perhaps, instead of sperging another 100 pages on gays, trannies, leftism, trump (yes, it will come to that), and other shit, this thread could concentrate on some actual theological questions?

Yes please.

3) Theodicea. Why evil exists? Why God allows evil to exist if he is omnipotent? Is the endlosung for evil even possible?

It's always struck me that this is simply a reaction to a really immaterial critique. Why does evil exist? Because existence isn't perfect, only God is. Sorry, you can't be as God. Getting further into the weeds than that brings you out of what religion in general and Christianity in particular is crucial for. Religion distills the wisdom inherent in God's creation into narratives so that us narrative bound mortals can navigate that creation.

to paraphrase the beliefs of the gnostic christians:

I would be more charitable to Gnosticism if it wasn't so trivial a path from it to delusions of grandeur. It's almost always taken up by aristocratic classes who fancy the idea they can become as God.

Christ can come any second and you don't want to be caught with your pants down.

I agreed with your post while phoneposting on the toilet. Little ironies make me very happy.

 

[TIM4EUS]

I would be more charitable to Gnosticism if it wasn't so trivial a path from it to delusions of grandeur. It's almost always taken up by aristocratic classes who fancy the idea they can become as God.

friend...theres nothing outside of God. God is everything, we're just characters in his dream, proverbial shadows against the cave wall. I think thats the opposite of thinking we can become God. we're already God, but not in the way that people think

I will freely admit that many contemporary gnostics think in the way you described though. for this reason I dissociate myself with the modern gnostic movement, it gives me creepy vibes

It's always struck me that this is simply a reaction to a really immaterial critique. Why does evil exist? Because existence isn't perfect, only God is. Sorry, you can't be as God. Getting further into the weeds than that brings you out of what religion in general and Christianity in particular is crucial for. Religion distills the wisdom inherent in God's creation into narratives so that us narrative bound mortals can navigate that creation.

BTW evil exists because God creates it:

https://www.biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

 

[Candlelight Desolation]

My personal theory is that the antichrist will be America's first Jewish (or openly Jewish) president.

It useless to try predicting Doomsday. The End Times are a lot like the fall of Kiwi Farms: always coming but never here. But you'll know it when you see it.

Interesting. In the Bible, there are actually four chapters which deal with the traits of the future antichrist, and you may have hit two of them, which I'll highlight in green. However, the antichrist needs to match all of these traits:

Daniel 7

• Heritage is of the European Union, may be a Jew or Arab, descended from the Roman Empire.
• Arrogant and self-centered.
• Unique amongst politicians/noticeably different from those who came before him.
• Very proud and boastful.
• Will change times and laws.

Daniel 8

• Politically rises from a sub-national leadership position.
• Stern/fierce-faced.
• Liar who actively opposes truth.
• Empowered through others (a US President is powerless on his own)
• Seeks political control for his own glory.
• Shrewd/cunning/deceitful.
• Vicious and violent, lacks regard for life.
• Icon of earthly success.

Daniel 11

• Will be irreligious/have a different religion than his forebears (or lack thereof).
• No desire for the affections of women.

Revelation 13

• Unifier who appeals to people of all backgrounds.
• Strongly associated with the number 666.

Now I know people will say Revelation is about Emperor Nero, but they ignore the later parts of the book which talk about the New Jerusalem and the new earth, which proves it's about end times stuff and not the Jewish Revolt or something similar during the first century. Nero himself did match a lot of these traits (some of the more prominent being his name meaning 666, his cruelty towards the Christians, and his arrogance; there's also Suetonius's account about him gay-marrying a eunuch slave and pretending to be the woman when having sex), but a lot of dictators throughout history have had some of these traits listed above as well. This makes me draw this conclusion:

Satan does not know when the Rapture/subsequent Tribulation will be, only God does as per scripture. Because of this, Satan has always had AN antichrist candidate picked out somewhere in the world in every era in case the time comes.

 

[Betonhaus]

So Biden.

 

[Standardized Profile]

Went to Easter Vigil at an Episcopal church today. It wasn't horrible, except they invited unbaptized persons to receive communion. Last I checked, this is against the Constitution and Canons of the church.

Bishops won't stop it, they have more important things to worry about like stamping out the last priests who won't "marry" gay couples. I don't know how the guy above is still tolerated.

While in the pews, I got to thinking about the Anglican distinctives and how they were perverted in the 20th century. A part of the Elizabethan Settlement that is deeply ingrained in Anglicanism is the desire not to make "windows into men's souls." Meaning we don't police people too deeply for their thoughts, opinions, passions, inclinations, etc. As long as they're coming to church and participating in the liturgy, God is working in them. As God said in one of tonight's readings, "So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."

This was a remarkably flexible and tolerant form of churchmanship, although the CofE did not always behave in a flexible and tolerant manner. Because of this precept, only those engaged in "malicious and open contention with his neighbours, or other grave and open sin without repentance," could be repelled from communion. What constituted "grave" is not defined in the BCP, and for all practical purposes is left up to the bishop. A lot of the Anglican clergy have a high view of sacraments, and they want sinners partaking of the bread of heaven and participating in the rest of church life.

Here's where things went off the rails. The Episcopal Church went from "allowing everyone to participate in the liturgy and church life," which is consistent with their view that the Church is a hospital for souls and sacraments are the medicine, to "allowing everyone full participation in the Church." If someone can receive communion, the thinking goes, why can't they be a priest, or a bishop? Well, because then you end up giving miters to nuts like John Shelby Spong or Katherine Jefferts Schori. I'd sit next to either one in a pew, but I don't want them running the church; everyone should come to the hospital for souls, but not everyone should be a doctor.

So when you're appointing a leader, you really do need a window into their soul. And the CofE knew that, which is why they came up with the 36 Articles of Religion. The articles were never a catechism, they were an acid test for would-be priests. Unfortunately, the articles were written to address 17th century controversies, and were never required in the (US) Episcopal Chruch. We need a bunch of new articles to weed out troons, communists, and larping atheists. That will never happen, though.

 

[Quiet Guy]

BTW evil exists because God creates it:

https://www.biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

This is from the King James Version, which tends to be misinterpreted, since it's in old English. Other translations use the word "calamity" or "disaster".

It literally does, which is a good enough reason not to care about it too much and to care about how you act in the here and now. Christ can come any second and you don't want to be caught with your pants down.

An old Bible teacher talked about the theory that the Rapture would occur during one of the Jewish feasts, thus fulfilling it. With that said, we can't know for certain that will be true or what year it would happen even if it is.

3) Theodicea. Why evil exists? Why God allows evil to exist if he is omnipotent? Is the endlosung for evil even possible?

Many women who have miscarriages probably think of the children that died in the womb, but most probably don't think about the children that were never conceived. God on the other hand, could think of all of the children who could ever possibly be. Is it possible that God created an infinite number of universes, so He could create the infinite number children He could think of, and evil existing in some of them is a byproduct of that? God is, of course, omnipotent, so it doesn't seem to be the perfect explanation, but it feels like it might be near the truth. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[TIM4EUS]

This is from the King James Version, which tends to be misinterpreted, since it's in old English. Other translations use the word "calamity" or "disaster".

thats a fair point. although, this doesnt change the fact that these are still bad things. this theme is reiterated where it says that God creates the light and the darkness, do you think its just talking about literal light and darkness here? it seems to be implying goodness and badness too, which is congruent with the behavior of the OT God who condones numerous instances of atrocities/immoral behavior:

Deuteronomy 20:16-17

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Numbers 31:17-18

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

if this isnt considered as "evil" behavior then what is?

 

[Betonhaus]

if this isnt considered as "evil" behavior then what is? that being said, im not making the argument that God is totally bad, im just saying that he's a complicated character.

*shrug* god works in mysterious ways.