Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

You'd want to hide the real numbers as much as possible

Why would you release a document that conflicts with your own narrative and paints you as a liar

only proves that you're lying about how well everything is going

Just doesn't make sense

That's the point. Make even sane, true information seem like disinformation or misinformation.

From the start of this war, soldiers on the ground have been breaking opsec. I know they're briefed to keep quiet and they've failed miserably. Every tweet tells the Russians exactly where that soldier and platoon are. It's why Russian drone strikes are so effective.

They've done everything to plug the gaps and stop the transmissions, to the point where the internet and cell phones have gone down.

So how to plug those gaps? You don't. You flood the airwaves with so much confusion and bad information - even often leaked to genuine sources to make the misinformation more believable. All designed to stop the enemy from learning anything.

It's like radar spoofing by firing chaff, causing the plane to be hidden by bits of tinfoil.

Put out a leak that so obviously can't be a leak. Hide in plain sight. The Brits did it to the Germans during ww2 and poker players do it to hide their tells.
 
The only "important" part is a snippet discussing RUS and UA losses - especially troops KIA. The "photoshoped" piece said 17k RUS and 70k UA troops killed, the other something inverse, like 17k UA and 60k RUS losses.
Both are probably bs, and ignore the elephant in the room:
According to the NYT article, the leakers couldn't have been UA officials, because they don't have access to the documents.
Again: UA officials do not have access to the counter-offensive plans they're about to execute.
Funnily, the USA doesn't even pretend to hide the fact that pentagon is dictating the battle plans.
"proxy war" confirmed to even the dumbest motmotherfuckers
if the Ukrainians suffered only 17,500 dead.....they suffered roughly the same amount of deaths as the Wehrmacht when they invaded Poland and 1/3 of the dead they suffered conquering France


AIN'T NO FUCKING WAY
 
Another argument against straight bombing is that this is a battle of attrition where Russia wants to deplete Ukrainian military assets and morale. If they just bomb the city, Zelensky will just pull back the UAF to more defendable positions, and be able to use the horror of a dead city to encourage more gibs from other countries. The longer the fighting takes while Russia is in an entrenched position, the more the Ukraine depletes its assets and the more the world gets disappointed in the entire war. If the Ukraine is just going to throw good men into a kill box, Russia is better served by sitting out and having woodchipper go brrrrrr.

I think its been unofficially confirmed that it was a general's idea to basically turn Bahkmut into a meatgrinder and let Ukies throw bodies at it. Which is why the West wanted the Ukies to pull back but Z man doubled down and then turned it into a holy site which basically forced the West into holding it.

I suspect the leaks may have been intentionally released by the US to be blamed on Ukraine, just like with Nord Stream.

One of the reasons why is to start softening up the public to the idea of dropping support to Ukraine, making the Ukrainian high command look like a bunch of dumb bastards (kek) who are either a) incompetent or b) ungrateful and leaked it intentionally. Another reason is that it gives Ukraine's handlers a reason to back out of the counterattack, it's propaganda for the internal audience.

Possibly. There's no fucking shot that anyone with half a brain cell believes fucking Ukraine did that shit. Why the fuck would Russia blow up its own pipeline that it paid massive amounts of money for?

EU:
Motive: Uhhh......blow up...their own supply of gas....for....reasons, possibly?
Means: Sure
Opportunity: I mean, sure.

Russia:
Motive: None, they can just turn the pipe off or slow the supply of gas.
Means: Sure
Opportunity: It is one of the most heavily patrolled areas by the West, highly unlikely they'd have the necessary intel to be undetected.

Ukraine
Motive: Destroy Russian Infrastructure
Means: Fucking lol, no.
Opportunity: Without Western Support, none.

USA
Motive: Force EU to rely on gas imports and not Russia to keep them in the war effort
Means: Absofuckinglutely
Opportunity: They know their allies movements intimately, and they could have made subtle adjustments so they wouldn't be detected. They'd have the most access to intel from the area, and the least likelihood of getting caught.

HMMM GUYS THIS IS A FUCKING SCOOBY DOO MYSTERY HERE, REAL TOUGH TO FIGURE OUT. I guess it was the Ukrainians who have no underwater training, frogmen or special forces to carry it out, plus no means to get there without the Russians noticing unless America basically hand held them through it. OR maybe it was Russia, who just chose to shoot itself in the fucking face and blow up a trillion dollar piece of infrastructure. Totally could be anyone, anyone at all!

You have to be fucking mentally retarded to believe the Ukrainians blew that up all on their fucking lonesome. And that Russia would blow up a trillion dollar pipeline. Or the EU would basically put a shotgun in their mouth and pull the trigger with a smile.
 
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if the Ukrainians suffered only 17,500 dead.....they suffered roughly the same amount of deaths as the Wehrmacht when they invaded Poland and 1/3 of the dead they suffered conquering France


AIN'T NO FUCKING WAY

This fucking website fails to load any pics I try to upload, but the "leaked" NATO docs literally state they don't believe the death tolls presented because of bias / lies from Ukraine's reporting see pic
 
"We'll come in low out of the rising sun, and about a mile out, we'll put on the music."
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"Music?"

"Yeah! Ofc I use Wagner - Who do you think you're flying with? Scares the hell out of the holhols. My boys love it!"

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3.jpg
 
The press hasn't been straight with how fucking disastrous this war has been for Ukraine so far.

Forget the press. If this leak isn't some bizarre glow-op (we aren't just pretending to be retarded, we really are!), the fucking American military command is lying to itself and to any civilian politicians they're briefing with this information. 16k dead with a 2:1 casualty advantage for Ukraine? Obscene. Laughable. They probably lost at least half that amount in and around Mariupol alone in the opening months of the war.

The Pentagon is being spoonfed obvious bullshit which is corroborated by the same people they pay to produce bullshit, and they're so detached from reality that this hardly raises any alarms aside from a statement that "these numbers may be biased".

Taking the rest of the info at face value, their original equipment and manpower is almost totally depleted. This upcoming offensive it describes is a Frankenstein's monster of assorted donated equipment manned by fresh recruits. Ukraine is forming only three brigades internally compared to NATO's nine, and they won't be ready until the end of this month. If they are actually going to commit to this plan of action after telegraphing it for so long, it will be a disaster.
 
330,000


Probably like 200,000 total and 150,000 dead and missing

While I do not doubt that the Ukrainians have consistently gotten their shit pushed in, 330,000 sounds way too high. Isn't that more soldiers than they had at the start of the war?
The have sent two iterations of their Army into the meat grinder
2016-2022 Army that got ground up in the invasion
2022 Army that got ground up pushing the Russians back
2023 Army that is in Bakhmut and launching the counter offensive
 
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While I do not doubt that the Ukrainians have consistently gotten their shit pushed in, 330,000 sounds way too high. Isn't that more soldiers than they had at the start of the war?
Seems very high.
Hopefully 70,000 dead, 40,000 surrendered, 220,000 hiding out with relatives in the countryside or bribed their way out to escape this horrific brother war.
 
150,000 dead and missing
I would say a massive chunk of the "missing" is just AWAL. It's not the 1960s anymore. There is more then the controlled TV/radio and newpapers. People have social media and the internet. If I knew I was being sent to something like Bakhmut to die for nothing but PR for more gibs I would fuck off the first second I had a chance.
 
I would say a massive chunk of the "missing" is just AWAL. It's not the 1960s anymore. There is more then the controlled TV/radio and newpapers. People have social media and the internet. If I knew I was being sent to something like Bakhmut to die for nothing but PR for more gibs I would fuck off the first second I had a chance.
Also the easiest time to sneak away unnoticed during the chaos of the mass troop movement.
 
330,000


Probably like 200,000 total and 150,000 dead and missing

No fucking shot at 330k. That'd be fucking insane.

I have no estimates really, its impossible to tell, but no way I believe 330k, nor do I believe 17k either.
 
Forget the press. If this leak isn't some bizarre glow-op (we aren't just pretending to be retarded, we really are!), the fucking American military command is lying to itself and to any civilian politicians they're briefing with this information. 16k dead with a 2:1 casualty advantage for Ukraine? Obscene. Laughable. They probably lost at least half that amount in and around Mariupol alone in the opening months of the war.

The Pentagon is being spoonfed obvious bullshit which is corroborated by the same people they pay to produce bullshit, and they're so detached from reality that this hardly raises any alarms aside from a statement that "these numbers may be biased".

Taking the rest of the info at face value, their original equipment and manpower is almost totally depleted. This upcoming offensive it describes is a Frankenstein's monster of assorted donated equipment manned by fresh recruits. Ukraine is forming only three brigades internally compared to NATO's nine, and they won't be ready until the end of this month. If they are actually going to commit to this plan of action after telegraphing it for so long, it will be a disaster.
If we take this leak at face value the pentagon has fairly comprehensive intel on the Russian side and basically nothing on the Ukrainian side. 17k dead tracks more or less exactly with the self-reported Ukrainian casualty figures. The pentagon doesn't trust the Ukrainian estimates of Russian KIA (remember they had a billboard in Kiev celebrating 100,000 dead Russian troops back in January) but they apparently assume the Ukrainians are being honest about their own losses. If/when this war ends that lack of oversight is absolutely going to bite America in the ass.
No fucking shot at 330k. That'd be fucking insane.

I have no estimates really, its impossible to tell, but no way I believe 330k, nor do I believe 17k either.
Agreed. The 300k dead seems to be based on 'missing' Ukrainian troops that were supposed to be mobilized when the war started. On paper the Ukies should have a million man army and they clearly don't. Every now and then someone brings this up and assumes that the missing conscripts are KIA instead of in the reserves (there are only so many men you can train/equip at once) or working odd jobs in Spain.
 
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