Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Gondolindrim]

I feel bad for Daisy Ridley.
Yes, Rey sucked as a character, but I blame that more on the writers and directors.

It doesn't help that she's another Carrie Fisher waiting to happen. There are so many clips of her rubbing her nose with dilated pupils, there's no way she wasn't pounding snow during the filming of the last trilogy.

 

[Dixieland Buckaroo]

It doesn't help that she's another Carrie Fisher waiting to happen. There are so many clips of her rubbing her nose with dilated pupils, there's no way she wasn't pounding snow during the filming of the last trilogy.
View attachment 5028990

To be fair to Carrie, she came from Hollywood royalty, so even though she was an unknown, her family was known. And after she left the screen (largely), she turned into a hell of an author and script doctor. So yes, she had numerous substance issues, but she turned some of that into something outside of just self gratification.

Haven't seen that "next step" at all from Daisy, in the acting sphere, writing sphere, anywhere.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Like I said before, Andor did a number on Filoni's reputation, especially among the hip leftist political crowd who liked Andor's narrative of revolutionary politics and began to see Filoni as a man playing with action figures and cameos on screen instead of making something substantial. The recent failures of BoB and S3 Mando have further proven that point.

I'm confused, if they liked andor why would it ruin filoni's reputation?

 

[Midwit]

More than once they explained in the guidebooks, novels, and comics that turbolasers can literally glass planets better than nukes can. Nobody among the EU authors, outside of Karen Traviss, called out Saxton in his numbers because damn near every book, comic, or guide that talked about orbital bombardment in the EU agreed with his stats.

Can you point to any examples of this?

 

[Quarterback Rex Grossman]

I feel bad for Daisy Ridley.
Yes, Rey sucked as a character, but I blame that more on the writers and directors.

And it's not going to get any better. The early EU novels (especially Jedi Academy Trilogy which is good haters) showed Luke struggling to rebuild the Jedi Order, tracking down lost knowledge and having to travel the galaxy like Space Nick Saban to find recruits. Rey's new movie skips right to her Grandmaster phase. So from wunderkind to Yoda with no struggle or character growth in between. She's going to have the same outfit, the same hair, she won't look 35 even though Daisy's kind of walling right now, and she'll be the same loud screamy girlboss she was before.

No idea what the plot is but I'm fairly certain they just used the NJO name and they aren't going to adapt the actual series or even use the Vong. It'll probably rip off the Jedi Academy game or something, with more First Order nonsense. (Somehow the First Order survived! Fight the patriarchy, my diverse female apprentices!)

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I feel bad for Daisy Ridley.
Yes, Rey sucked as a character, but I blame that more on the writers and directors.

It doesn’t help that Ridley is capable of doing good acting, since she was great in that video game with Willem Dafoe and James McAvoy. She’s another example in the Star Wars franchise of an actor being heavily neutered by a bad script and direction.

I'm confused, if they liked andor why would it ruin filoni's reputation?

Andor ruined Filoni’s reputation since it was one of the few modern shows that Filoni didn’t have much input on. When people watched it they realized that Star Wars can do more whereas they noticed more and more how much of a hack Filoni is.

 

[Male Idiot]

Depopulating a planet isn't hard. Just tow a rock at it.

Destroying it outright is waaay harder Death Star style.

But my problem was mainly that if the Juggernaut had such stronger guns then an AT AT or an artillery, it would invalidate them.

Which is a bad thing to do if you want to sell merch and have as many vehicles as you can to get nerd cash.

 

[Creep3r]

Can you point to any examples of this?

Fat chance.

I read enough of them to know. Then I read summaries online after I put them down.

And again, try debating my actual points about why I thought NJO sucks. If you actually read these books, then surely, you'd know how to debunk me, right? If not, then you're another poser who's guilty of the same things you accuse me of.

The Vong sent a third rate fleet with a fourth rate commander against the Empire because they thought it was too small and weak to send the first or even second team. This was after Ebaq 9 when the Vong attacked a bunch of smaller powers like the Yevetha and Ssi-Ruuk because Shimrra was chimping out. The Vong commander is explicitly portrayed as a stupid brute who can barely get his bioengineered shoes to tie themselves

Can you please not shit up this thread like you have the other one

 

[Power Glove]

Haven't seen that "next step" at all from Daisy, in the acting sphere

There is no next step for her. I don't think she is talented enough to be in anything else.
While the new trilogy was bombarded with negativity, and rightfully so, it should have been a huge stepping stone to more roles. She's been in a few projects as narrator, and something that looks like an indie movie.

She knows that there is no hope for the new instalments of Star Wars with her in it, but there are very little options it would seem.

 

[Michael Wade]

Kathleen Kennedy has been so bad at managing Star Wars that I am starting to suspect she is sabotaging Star Wars on purpose.
Likely out of hate and spite.

I bet she hates the fans, and finds them as being pathetic man children, and she gets gleeful joy at seeing them burn what they loved too. Very likely she hates Lucas too.

I sincerely doubt she ever cared about Star Wars.

Why isn’t she fired? Maybe she does have that blackmail material to avoid being fired.She was a glorified secretary after all.

Wishful thinking maybe. But it’s far more believable at this point than her being that incompetent and Disney‘s leadership being ok with it. It has to be on purpose, right? Because even a retard that loves Star Wars would try do something cool. KK seems more like she is just trying to burn the whole thing down.

Nike comercial or not, Theres now way she didn’t know what she was doing when she wore that “the force is female t-shirt” as the head of Lucasfilm.

Is she that clueless? Or just being a spiteful bitch? Honestly I find the later far more believable.

I'm 90 percent certain she has hard dirt on more then one person and that's why she's still in. And it's hardcore fucked up dirt, I can't think of anyone else who would fuck up this bad and still somehow be in otherwise.

I mean seriously who else is on her level?

 

[Creep3r]

I'm 90 percent certain she has hard dirt on more then one person and that's why she's still in. And it's hardcore fucked up dirt, I can't think of anyone else who would fuck up this bad and still somehow be in otherwise.

Well maybe there is that, but she's also technically still Spielberg's dear DEAR friend, ex-secretary, coffee girl and #1 ass kisser and Spielberg himself is usually at Disney inthe absence of George whenever she needs support from a famous director.

It was also Spielberg who got JJ the job to direct The Farce Engorges. These idiots are under his and Iger's care after all. Kennedy is also carrying the torch for that retard Alan Horn who was the major culprit that set off several chain of events that led to the changes and retcons that Star Wars experienced while under Disney.

However none of this would have been possible without Iger's manipulative chicanery, as noted in his autobiography which is just word after word of him treating everyone and even George like puppets in his plans to have Disney ascend to a global empire. He even outright admits that he had been stringing George along to sell directly to Disney from the get go with false promises and claiming they would let him handle the creative direction for the future projects in exchange for funding and facilities, none of which were legally set in stone and he got away with it scot free.

You can read Iger's autobiography via pdf here if anyone has any doubts:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/star-wars-griefing-thread-spoilers.32492/post-15274954

The freakiest thing about it is that Iger talks like some sort of emotionless homunculus, disconnected from normal human emotions and has no shame in admitting many of his antics and talking down others.

 

[Commander X]

I didn't care for the CGI Clone Wars cartoon, I couldn't get past how every character looked like a chainsaw sculpture.

 

[jspit2.0]

@Creep3r how much do you think they paid him for his soul? Zahn looks like he's been hollowed out on video.

I'm really pleasantly surprised to have confirmation that Filoni is the canceraids that ruined Obi Wan. It goes to show my pet theory.

Filoni reminds me of the nepo-baby phenomenon where zoomers discovered that Hollywood is filled with talentless names who are the children and grandchildren of elites in the film industry. KennedyFilm is a perfect example of the largely talentless who attach themselves to the merited; people who got where they were on genuine ability.

Even when Lucasfilm has anything decent, that consoomers gobble up, it'll just go to empowering Filoni. He insinuates himself like he did into every project and puts his often times terrible ideas forward. If they don't work, he distances himself like he has from the Sequels, expect when he's clout chasing. If they do, people give him all the credit.

LucasFilm is a case study on when the untalented who rose due to connections and smoozing rose beyond their ability. No one should let the coffee boy direct movies and approve scripts or the girl who pays off the locals and gets Speilberg his kosher muffin make creative decisions.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

It doesn’t help that Ridley is capable of doing good acting, since she was great in that video game with Willem Dafoe and James McAvoy. She’s another example in the Star Wars franchise of an actor being heavily neutered by a bad script and direction.

This is the case like 99.5% with movies, television and video games. The actors can do their jobs, but it’s ultimately the director/writer’s job for determining how well someone acts or conveys their lines. Any harassment that Kelly Marie Tran got for being Rose Tico is pretty autistic because why would you blame the actress for something that the director and writer did? Or with Nolan films like Dunkirk or Tenet where every character is written like a pawn than an actual character.

If Daisy Ridley, Tran or the other actors were in better characters, I wouldn’t have a problem with them, especially when non-actors like Ngor have showed that they have acting chops.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Can you point to any examples of this?

-The Imperial Sourcebook literally talks about how a single Star Destroyer has more weapons than entire planetary sectors and can glass worlds rather easily. This was back in the 90s, mind you, long before Saxton and his Episode II ICS book gave precise counts on the power level of turbolasers.

-A single warship can enact a Base Delta Zero initiative where they glass a planet, killing everyone on it.

-In the KOTOR comics, during the Battle of Serroco, where the Republic fleet was face-to-face with the Mandalorian fleet, Admiral Karath's reaction to the Mandalorians firing their nukes was to just raise his shields. Indicating that even all the way back in the KOTOR era, the Republic had shield tech for its ships that can laugh off nukes. Which was why the Mandalorians had the nukes hit the planet instead of the fleet, since the planet wasn't shielded like the Republic fleet was. Keep in mind, THIS is how much firepower those Mandalorian nukes had, and yet Saul acted as if such nukes were not a threat to his fleet. They weren't; so the Mandos had them hit the planet instead.

-Caamas got bombed by a BDZ operation to the point where it was uninhabitable 40 years later. The remaining Caamasi focused on getting a new planet instead of just terraforming the old one, showing how total planetary bombardment was.

-On pg. 248 of Slave Ship, the following narrative description is provided of the recoil absorption mechanism on a typical turbolaser cannon: "the laser cannons being mounted into the open skeletal frames required bracing and recoil-dissipation casings that would have withstood explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range. Anything less, and a single shot fired in battle would rip a destroyer or battle cruiser in two, a victim of its own lethal strength".

-"Sunlight rippled across a sea of shimmering glass. Glass that had once been part of iridescent domes, towering minarets, soaring archways, vertical towers, and all the other structures that constitute a city. A city reduced to a sea of manmade lava, as Imperial laser cannon carved swathes of destruction through the once-beautiful metropolis." (Jedi Knight, p.47)

-Dankayo was so totally fucked by orbital bombardment that someone in a deep-planet survival shelter was scared he might die, and the atmosphere withered away:

"... to rendezvous at Dankayo and reduce the tiny base to molten slag. Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a through search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface" (Scavenger Hunt, p.3)

Agent ZNT-8's final log entry: "As instructed, I have remained behind until the last of our transports departed safely into hyperspace. Imperial Star Destroyers have so thoroughly blasted Dankayo that I fear for my safety, even in this deep-planet survival shelter." (Scavenger Hunt, p.20)

So yes, there's tons of stuff in the old EU that indicated Saxton wasn't talking out of his ass. If anything, he was surprisingly faithful to it.

I'm confused, if they liked andor why would it ruin filoni's reputation?

Because Filoni wasn't the one who made Andor. Tony Gilroy did. And his way of doing things was opposite of Filoni: slow burn, political drama, character focus, whereas Filoni just has his characters go on sidequests for action and to pad the time limit, which has been described by Andor fans as Filoni "playing with action figures on live TV".

 

[Flaming Carrot]

I recall seeing Star Wars as like an 8 year old (which was decades after they came out to be fair) but at the time there was no hint that they were supposed to be special.
In some places they were a little gross and shocking, especially for a kid, but otherwise they were relatively forgettable.

The universe isn't that compelling, it mostly amounts to magical random "rule of cool" shit people have tried to slap logic onto post-facto to create the impression of grander lore and intent, the story barely reaches generic and serviceable.
The whole thing seems like a shallow exercise that was mainly designed to show off cool cinematography tricks of the time.

What causes it? Is it an issue of age? Are these mostly just 50 year old men who saw Star Wars as kids when other movies weren't doing that, and that's why they think they're special? Then other consoomers glommed onto that?
It's such a nothing, even the originals are just movies like any other. And now in modern day the brand functions as nothing but globohomo-approved bugmanchild feed.

The first movie I ever saw in a movie theater was when I was about four years old. It was The Empire Strikes Back. I stood the entire time because I had never seen anything so exciting. If you weren't a kid when the original trilogy came out, it's hard to understand the impact of those movies. As a adult, I can see the flaws in the movies, but as a child, it was like actually going to space. The impact has been dulled by decades of progress in special effects and the fact that Lucas was never really able to fully recapture the magic of the original movies and of course things really going off the rails with Disney, but the original movies were really something special at the time.

Kathleen Kennedy has been so bad at managing Star Wars that I am starting to suspect she is sabotaging Star Wars on purpose.
Likely out of hate and spite.

I bet she hates the fans, and finds them as being pathetic man children, and she gets gleeful joy at seeing them burn what they loved too. Very likely she hates Lucas too.

I sincerely doubt she ever cared about Star Wars.

Why isn’t she fired? Maybe she does have that blackmail material to avoid being fired.She was a glorified secretary after all.

Wishful thinking maybe. But it’s far more believable at this point than her being that incompetent and Disney‘s leadership being ok with it. It has to be on purpose, right? Because even a retard that loves Star Wars would try do something cool. KK seems more like she is just trying to burn the whole thing down.

Nike comercial or not, Theres now way she didn’t know what she was doing when she wore that “the force is female t-shirt” as the head of Lucasfilm.

Is she that clueless? Or just being a spiteful bitch? Honestly I find the later far more believable.

I said this in the Indiana Jones thread, but if you look at Kathleen Kennedy's resume, she's been involved in the production of a lot of hit movies. Not just with Steve Spielberg, but with Martin Scorsese, Robert Zemeckis, Joe Dante, etc. On paper, she looks like she should be able to run Lucasfilm in her sleep. She's probably really good at the accounting side of things.

I think the biggest problem is that she's not really a creative type. That didn't matter when she was with Spielberg and Lucas. They knew how to make hit movies, and they weren't going to let a number cruncher tell them what to do.

But now she runs Lucasfilm. And she reminds me of the Sony executives in those leaked emails where they were suggesting that Spiderman do extreme sports, listen to EDM, and have a Snapchat account. She's never actually written and directed a movie and doesn't appear to understand why Star Wars was popular, so she and the higher ups at Disney throw things at the wall and see what sticks . Disney think Star Wars fans will watch anything with the logo on it and that little girls love princesses, so here's Rey the Star Wars Princess, who's better than everybody and more importantly younger than Princess Leia, who now gets to spend all her time standing around and looking constipated. People love Game of Thrones so why not give the Game of Thrones guys a Star Wars movie? No wait, they don't like Game of Thrones any more, let's cancel that movie. The Mandalorian's is kind of a hit - let's let the weird wolf obsessed guy do some shows with his characters. We should have Josh Trank make a Boba Fett movie? Why? Who knows?

Running Lucasfilm would be a thankless job for anyone. Kathleen Kennedy is awful, but to be fair I can't think of anyone who could do the job well at this point. Even if George Lucas had made the sequels he wanted to do, he would have been at the very least wiping out the the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy and killing Han Solo. It would have been better than what we got, but it probably wouldn't have been great. It would have been as divisive as the prequels, and we'd probably be having arguments about how much better things would have been if he'd only let JJ Abrams or Joss Whedon do the sequels.

The original Star Wars was lighting in a bottle. It was made by a young man with something to prove and who was able to wrangle creative control for himself. The whole thing was like some classic rock band pumping out some amazing albums and then breaking up at the height of their game. They had the platinum records and the hot groupies and it was all amazing. Sure, there was that embarrassing holiday-themed B-side, but everyone forgot about that.

The prequel trilogy was like the band reuniting because they needed the money. They don't quite quite fit into the leopard print leotards any more and the reunion album is deeply divisive, but they still pull off a reasonable approximation of the hits. It's not like it was in the old days, but if you squint and have a few drinks, it sometimes feels like the old magic is still there. The record only goes gold and the groupies are more of the MILF variety, but nostalgia gets everyone through the night. The each go home in their own separate tour busses.

The Disney Star Wars trilogy is when the band consists of the original bassist, his nephew, and two guys who were hired from Craigslist. They're playing the state fair, and they're not even headlining. They had to change the name of the band to Original Bassist plays the Star Wars hits due to lawsuits from the singer and the guitarist. The groupies look like Sy Snootles. But the bassist and his nephew and the guys from Craigslist need to get paid, so they half-ass their way through the songs and go drink moonshine with carnies. You paid 20 bucks for a ticket, and you still feel like you got ripped off.

Kathleen Kennedy is awful, but the bigger problem is that trying to make a sequel trilogy of films to the original Star Wars movies that would be both good and popular is pretty much impossible at this point. George Lucas is no longer involved, the people who helped him make it are largely dead or retired, and the series is owned by a gigantic corporation that only bought it because they thought it would be a dependable revenue stream. I even like Andor, but it's not a huge ratings draw and it's the least Star Wars-y Star Wars project out there. I think the only way the series' fortunes are revived is if the ratings continue to decline, Disney sells off the property, and then 30 years from now some young filmmaker with a good idea and something to prove makes Star Wars: The Next Generation.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

The actors can do their jobs, but it’s ultimately the director/writer’s job for determining how well someone acts or conveys their lines. Any harassment that Kelly Marie Tran got for being Rose Tico is pretty autistic because why would you blame the actress for something that the director and writer did?

Yeah harassing actors for stuff that's largely the director/writer's fault is retarded. There are exceptions of course as sometimes it can be the actors fault for a movie being shit. A recent example being The Rock who fucked up the DC Cinematic universe by acting like a stage diva who wanted to be the center of everything, forced things to cater to his ego, and literally has a contract where he can not be allowed to lose a fight on-screen.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@Flaming Carrot
Regarding on what you said about Lucas' Sequels wiping out the Thrawn books, there was also the fact that most of the EU fans were not big fans of Lucas prior to the Disney buyout. This whole reverence for the man after TLJ dropped was something that was very recent; it's not even ten years old. It only happened because Disney made a misstep and thought they'd be lauded for "subverting expectations" in TLJ. If they continued to shamelessly pander to the OT fans with nostalgia bait and cameos, or had the Luke and Leia power fantasy hour with both of them being fully-realized Jedi acting as the Kenobi and Yoda to Rey in the Sequels, people would've kept praising Disney and lambasting Lucas as inferior.

The "Lucas Rehabilitation" as I call it, was certainly helped on by TCW making the Prequels' plot be dumbed-down enough so that normies and little kiddies could understand it and go "so that's what Lucas was trying to do with the Prequels!" But despite that, even guys who read the books or played the games still looked at Lucas like he was an idiot for writing the Prequels, and even fans of the EU saw him as a black sheep for it. So there was no love lost when Lucas sold Disney and Disney canned the EU. He didn't resist, he didn't talk back, his "White Slavers" comment was directed at the Sequel Trilogy and he retracted it soon afterwards.

I can just imagine the sheer FURY that the EU fans would've had for Lucas if he DID hang on to Lucasfilm and create his intended Sequel Trilogy; it would step over countless books from the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, Crimson Empire, and so much more. The people who enjoyed those books will be up in arms about it, while the only stuff that stays safe would be the Old Republic stuff since Lucas wasn't interested in that part of the timeline.

At the end of the day, Lucas DID support Dave Filoni getting the power to rewrite the EU to fit his standards for the TCW show, and Lucas would've probably done the same thing to the post-ROTJ lore and get rid of things he doesn't like, such as Luke getting married with Mara Jade. No Vong, no Thrawn, no Dark Empire, no Jedi Knight games, (all three JK games take place AFTER ROTJ) and all of it would've been retconned for whatever plan Lucas had for the Sequels.

So if anything, the result would've been the same, and with Lucas being tight with the leftist crowd (remember, this guy thinks the Viet Cong were the good guys and Nixon was the bad guy in the Cold War, to the point where the Rebel Alliance was modeled on the former and Palpatine was inspired by the latter) he wouldn't be that averse to putting pro-SJW stuff in it. Plenty of authors who were politically incorrect back in the day and put in raunchy stuff in their past work *cough* Garth Ennis *cough* Alan Moore *cough* are now pro-SJW and are tight with the LGBTQ crowd.

If Lucas did the Sequels, you'd still have a lot of the old EU getting wiped, you'd still have social justice making inroads into Star Wars, complete with Lucas' blessing, and the hatred and wrath of the EU fans would be pointed at Lucas instead of Disney. We'd be talking now about how evil Lucas was for shitcanning the EU and how he bent over backwards for the Leftist SJW plague, and people would still be talking shit to him about the Prequels. Lucas is a more left-leaning Christian like say, Pope Francis, and he wouldn't be that averse to leftist causes in Star Wars, when the fucking Rebel Alliance was inspired by the Commies in Vietnam fighting against the Empire of Cold War America in the first place.

If anything, selling to Disney and letting them do the Sequels probably saved Lucas a lot of grief. That way, when they shitcanned the EU and did their Sequels, all the glory and the blame will be on Disney's head, while Lucas can retire with his wealth and livelihood. And now that Disney's fucking up, people are praising Lucas, so it's a win-win for him. His Prequels get rehabilitated in the eyes of the public, he doesn't get the blame for the ST shitting all over the EU, and he still has all that money. To Lucas, Star Wars begins with TPM and ends with ROTJ, he couldn't give less of a shit about the EU and everything else; the most we've got is him inspiring plots in the EU like Force Unleashed and Dark Empire, and those weren't the most well-loved stories in the EU, now are they? They were at best, seen as average-to-good by some fans in those days, (I thought they were great, but that was far from the average opinion) while other fans laughed at them for being power fantasies with ridiculous premises.

TL;DR, Disney was the canary in the coal mine for Lucas' Sequel plans. The fact that they did the ST and canned the EU allowed Lucas to dodge a bullet and get some positive PR in exchange once Disney started pissing off fans.

 

[Gondolindrim]

It doesn’t help that Ridley is capable of doing good acting, since she was great in that video game with Willem Dafoe and James McAvoy. She’s another example in the Star Wars franchise of an actor being heavily neutered by a bad script and direction.

It's 100% a Disney problem because the MCU does the exact same shit: They hire these A-list actors and then give them absolute dogshit material to work with. Madds Mikkelson and Cate Blanchett were major villains in the MCU, had their own movies and everything, and they had some of the worst performances of their careers.

 

[TerranTony98]

I've seen a lot of conflicting information regarding George's involvement with TCW. I find it hard to believe he was only an idea man when there are sources of him giving direct feedback to voice actors and story decisions on top of funding the show directly out of pocket so it could continue to air. I think it's undisputed that even if it's not necessarily what George wanted, he 100% approved of what was being made.

George notoriously didn't care for other authors or creators works regarding the EU but undoubtedly in discussions with Disney over the purchase of the IP TCW was to be considered canon. Not only this but he went to check on Filoni on the mandalorian set and took pics with baby yoda so it's not like filoni preformed some ruthless mutiny on star wars and stole it from Lucas becuase they are clearly on speaking terms. More realistically the person who did that was Kennedy.

I think Filoni deserves the hate but people in this thread act like he's Satan twisting the words of God into a bastardization. No, George very much liked the stuff he put out regardless of what you think of it.

I also think Genndy wars gets too much praise. The animation is fantastic but characters still act like wooden cutouts, also the clone jousting I think is absolutely retarded and the power scaling for certain characters is way off. I do like the scale of everything though. I hate whiney emo Anakin, sure it matches the movie better but I don't like it there either. "dudebro" Anakin felt better to me, he felt like Luke Skywalker with anger issues and his relationship with Padme felt more believable. Obi-wan also reflected the Flash Gordon swashbuckling adventurer and I like that his relationship with the dutchess acts as an antithesis to Anakins.

It's definitely with major faults. Ashoka, Grievous, the brain chip, the super kiddy episodes, tonal whiplash, poor dialog. But I think there's a lot of unwarranted hate directed at the show just cause it replaces something they think is better when there are certainly things that are salvageable. Also I hate wolves.