Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Clownish]

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Rusich the Russians Neo-Nazi unit said. "You'd be surprised how many of these videos will gradually pop up "

The leader of Rusich is Alexey Milchakov who got famous on social media in 2011 after he filmed himself torturing and decapitating a puppy. On his VK page he also called for killing homeless people, puppies and children.

He has bragged about photographing the bodies of mutilated and burnt bodies of Ukrainian soldiers in 2014, and he also is said to have cut ears off Ukrainian corpses and cut swastikas onto their faces.

 

[mindlessobserver]

That's not even counting leverage that USA has gained on European energy markets.

NATO expansion and strengthened cohesion. Massive orders for weapons from European militaries. Globohomo institutions like the ICC and ICJ gaining more clout, pro-US sentiment in Eastern Europe at all time high.

You could make a compelling case Putin is a CIA double agent.

 

[Scout Trooper]

Regarding the supposed NATO special forces on the ground in Ukraine, does it state that they're there under official orders or not? Because there's quite a few of Western volunteers who's ex-SF, the question is whether they're just trying to keep track of everyone who went to Ukraine on their own accord or if they were deliberately sent there. Worth noting that it wouldn't be hard to disguise them as volunteers I guess, but the ones I'm talking about usually tend to act too randomly for it to be a coordinated effort (like fucking around until they find a unit that takes them in and just do whatever is asked of them, I don't see this as something foreign MoD would sanction as it's not an effective use of their assets). I assume it's mostly for training local guys.
It would be hilarious if Russian propaganda latches onto this, pointing at it and shouting while foaming at the mouth "Look, we were right!", with their claims being ~10k NATO officers and whatnot, while their entire war effort is being fucked over by just 100 guys

I can't look at the documents for... reasons (so take this with a grain of salt and I could be totally wrong) but sight unseen, my intuition is that you are correct.

The number 14 is a little too close to 12, which is the standard size of a US SF ODA team with perhaps a couple extra 18 series guys or any number of C2, intel, or interpreter assets, or maybe even Air Force combat controllers in case things get really sideways.

And yes, this would a waste of resources to have them carrying out direct action missions against the enemy.

The greatest capability of an ODA is to make carbon copies of themselves so that you have a cadre of highly-proficient Ukrainian teams whose mission it is to develop training programs and embed with other Ukrainian forces to spread tactical and technical knowledge.

Even though it's slow the intent is to ultimately have the partner force be self-sustaining so that the US ODA can depart leaving the program in competent hands.

Spoiler: ra-ra stuff

 

[Koko Jambo]

That said, this will definitely not look good for the mainstream Ziggers optics. They've been forced to stay silent about it since...well, how the fuck are you supposed to defend this thing?

not that this has already happened on the other side as well

 

[Pork Packer]

From a purely cynical real politik viewpoint the current state of affairs is wonderful for American Grand Strategy. One of its greatest strategic rivals is getting shredded in a war of choice against a minor power. Thousands of tanks and APCs lost. Dozens of Fixed Wing and rotary aircraft, countless trucks, irreversible losses in the elite contractnick formations and even a few warships. More damage has been done to the Russian Military in 1 year then the entirety of the Soviet-Afghan war. Russia has blown out everything the Soviet Empire left behind. Intervening directly would ruin a good thing.

The assholes in Washington probably want this to go on even longer.

Honestly at this point we are looking at worse losses than the entirety of the cold war for russia

As they should, the weaker Russia is the more we can focus resources on China. Also alot of the kit we're sending them like Javelins, Stingers and old Bradley variants won't be useful in a war against China anyway and some of it like Stingers was rapidly aging out of usefulness on the modern battlefield anyway, so we get to get rid of storage on useless stuff while reducing the threat from a rival. Win/Win/Win.

Exactly, since any major non-nuke conflict waged with china will, at least by western nations, be waged overwhelmingly if not exclusively by naval and air elements as opposed to any boots on ground situation. And in this regard, even if china has not been pulling a russia with regards to its on-paper naval/air force strength and capabilities, its still vastly outmatched by what The US, UK, Japan, Australia, Korea, France, AND Taiwan can bring to the table together, and indeed even by the US forces in the area alone without the aforementioned allies.

And should it be pulling a russia with its naval/air force strength then we are looking at a proverbial highway of death situation but with boats

Furthermore it aint like its got any allies in the neighborhood to give it any assistance, since india is pretty much their second most existential enemy after burgerland, russia is...well...yeah... kim jong un aint exactly likely to stick his flabby neck out for a lost cause, the nations of south asia each have their own individual reasons to fucking despise china and want to see it taken down a dozen pegs (and especially to see its claim to their territorial waters removed), pakistan is fucking pakistan, and the various third world shitholes in africa and south america it has tried to court couldnt give a solitary shit if their loan shark goes down.

The only time shit would descend into land warfare would be if china managed to get some bridgehead in Taiwan, which is a pretty fuckin massive *if* given how Taiwan would have plenty of time to take out the ships involved and even longer before that to take note of them building up for an attack, or if china was dumb enough to blunder into open war with the pajeets while trying to invade Taiwan, in which case Pajeets still has both the Himalayas preventing any major incursion and its own bigass military to take care of itself, and on top of that will likely get some level of the Ukraine special, or at the very least the mujahadeen special should it need any more assistance

In short, china's prospects of successfully invading Taiwan are orders of magnitude worse than russia's apparent prospects of winning a quick and non-occupation/annexation war against Ukraine at the beginning of 2022....and we all know how that went. Even if china has not been fudging any numbers on modernisation, capabilities, logistics, trained manpower, etc with the PLA, which is a really...really...REALLY big *if*, it still has no fucking chance of victory should the US and allies get involved as they have stated repeatedly they will.

Which incidentally is why even the biggest china shills tend to pitch the hypothetical "successful" invasion as happening either after the US randomly and magically collapses and takes the rest of its allies with it, or when china reveals it has a sekrit superweapon which insta-annihilates the entire US navy with uh nanodrones or kill-satalites or some shit. I.e. literal cope-scifi

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Z-bros invade our peaceful thread, while we stand out of theirs.
Will the mods of the United Kiwifarms make a statment on this!????
The longer the war goes on, the more Z-bros get unhinged. Which makes me happy.

It’s like pottery.

In this situation the Russians are the US in Vietnam as they started by sending SOF troops incognito to puppet states in Ukr territories back in 2014. I agree this war is handling just as bad for Russia as Vietnam did for the United States.

It’s objectively a bigger fuck up than Vietnam or the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Jesus, this really is a Brother War for you. Sorry you have to go through all this shit bro.

And to put it in perspective people like him are the ones the Russians claim to be protecting. You know, people who speak Russian and live in Ukraine or have family in Ukraine. But instead they’re ripping their families apart and using them as canon fodder.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I assume the insinuation was eventual American boots on the ground, which I don't see happening.

The insinuation is American political parties tend to stab U.S. foreign allies in the back just to fuck over the other American political party.

Edit: Fortunately the GOP is rather inept at this since they have more experience being the going along to get along party. And Americans at worst are largely indifferent to the whole conflict as along its not them being sent to do the fighting in Ukraine.

 

[Crex Crex]

* Bombing 6 million kids in the Donbas
* Genociding Russian speakers by forcing schoolchildren to learn the national language
* Biolabs that were developing weapons to kill Russians

God I wish.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Ukrainians practicing a new FPV drone tactic: dive-bombing.

This would allow FPV drones to be reused instead of being expended after a single flight; and judging from the skill of Ukrainian operators, I have no doubt that it can be done just as accurately as a kamikaze type.

It's a terrifying (yet satisfying) thought; soon targeted troops won't know if an FPV drone buzzing towards them is going to make a beeline for their braincase, shove a grenade down their throat just as fast, or is just flying around to fuck with them.

But due to Russia's initial reluctance to release their own footage, the vast majority of drone videos seen by Russians have been Ukrainian; regardless of what their watermarks show. Many may accept the lie, but all can see how deadly & efficient the drones are.

So despite Russia's best propaganda efforts & crippling poverty, by this point probably a majority of Russians know exactly what awaits them if mobilized, so already the strain is close to breaking them before they even make it to the front. Like this:

Translation:
"I give you overcoat, coat and pants; great material, military. We washed it and removed the epaulettes. For utensils I can provide you a cup, spoon, knife and basically that's it; you're good to go."

(This may be from a movie, but the scene is still accurate; and the drone footage is very real)

 

[CuzinEd]

It’s like pottery.

It’s objectively a bigger fuck up than Vietnam or the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

And to put it in perspective people like him are the ones the Russians claim to be protecting. You know, people who speak Russian and live in Ukraine or have family in Ukraine. But instead they’re ripping their families apart and using them as canon fodder.

This is a far bigger and worse fuck up for Russian than Vietnam was for America the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80's and the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq. In the initial part of the 2003 Iraq invasion the US did well with the conventional part of the war. Things didn't start to go badly till it turned into an insurgency. Which didn't take very long. Even the US managed to stay in Afghanistan for 22 years the Soviets only managed to stay for a decade.

Ukraine is a war the Russians should be winning. It's not an insurgency/guerilla style conflict. It's a conventional war. The Russians know who their enemy is. They actually get to face the Ukrainians and see them. You can't say the same for Vietnam. Even the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was different. It was a guerilla style insurgency. Russia should be able to handle a conventional war. The Ukrainians aren't doing anything NATO wouldn't have done because that's who trained them. The Russians should be able to deal with this. Even with the weapons the West is sending into Ukraine this should have been expected and the Russians should have been prepared to deal with it. It's a proxy war and they know how the proxy war game is played. They play their own part in the proxy wars. But the Russians can't and are losing pretty badly in Ukraine.

The insinuation is American political parties tend to stab U.S. foreign allies in the back just to fuck over the other American political party.

Edit: Fortunately the GOP is rather inept at this since they have more experience being the going along to get along party. And Americans at worst are largely indifferent to the whole conflict as along its not them being sent to do the fighting in Ukraine.

Most Americans don't really care because we aren't directly involved. If we were you would be seeing more outcry about it. But then again it is a war where white people are being killed so some of the leftists might still go along with it. Kind of like how both the right and left like to jerk off over WW2.

 

[Rezza]

Ukrainians practicing a new FPV drone tactic: dive-bombing.
View attachment 5036470
This would allow FPV drones to be reused instead of being expended after a single flight; and judging from the skill of Ukrainian operators, I have no doubt that it can be done just as accurately as a kamikaze type.

It's a terrifying (yet satisfying) thought; soon targeted troops won't know if an FPV drone buzzing towards them is going to make a beeline for their braincase, shove a grenade down their throat just as fast, or is just flying around to fuck with them.

But due to Russia's initial reluctance to release their own footage, the vast majority of drone videos seen by Russians have been Ukrainian; regardless of what their watermarks show. Many may accept the lie, but all can see how deadly & efficient the drones are.

So despite Russia's best propaganda efforts & crippling poverty, by this point probably a majority of Russians know exactly what awaits them if mobilized, so already the strain is close to breaking them before they even make it to the front. Like this:
View attachment 5036527
Translation:
"I give you overcoat, coat and pants; great material, military. We washed it and removed the epaulettes. For utensils I can provide you a cup, spoon, knife and basically that's it; you're good to go."

(This may be from a movie, but the scene is still accurate; and the drone footage is very real)

What year is this shit, 1941? This war has accelerated drone warfare more than anyone can imagine, and it's only on its second year so far

 

[mindlessobserver]

What year is this shit, 1941? This war has accelerated drone warfare more than anyone can imagine, and it's only on its second year so far

Last year was 1941, and the Russian Offensive on Kiev was France. Russia knew Ukraine had limited artillery Ammunition, and calculated based on existing projections for how warfare went that they would be able to power through what pitiful barrages the Ukrainians could unleash.

What they did not expect was a Bayraktar destroying the lead vehicle in a convoy causing the entire advance to stop, and then a simple off the shelf civilian drone doing fire control for the Ukrainian Artillery. Ukraine was able to land precision fire on the Russian tank columns, thus overcoming the ammunition and gun tube shortage compared to the Russians. They could do alot more with alot less. We cannot forget how "scientific" the Russian Army is with respect to Military Science. Their operational plans cannot react to an outside context issue, and the use of Drone Directed Artillery was something they had not calculated into their plans. The results were a disaster for them.

 

[Snekposter]

the use of Drone Directed Artillery was something they had not calculated into their plans.

Which is dumb because "have thing fly around and spot for big guns" has been a thing since uh... the 1920's, IIRC. Hell, drones have been in use for spotting and recon since the 60's when the USA introduced DASH. All drones do is cut out the middleman and let the crews see first-hand where their shots are landing relative to the target. The most disappointing part is that I am not surprised the Russians were completely unprepared for any sort of significant aerial observation. I guess they fully believed everything that flew was going to be blown up in less than an hour.

 

[draggs]

Which is dumb because "have thing fly around and spot for big guns" has been a thing since uh... the 1920's, IIRC. Hell, drones have been in use for spotting and recon since the 60's when the USA introduced DASH. All drones do is cut out the middleman and let the crews see first-hand where their shots are landing relative to the target. The most disappointing part is that I am not surprised the Russians were completely unprepared for any sort of significant aerial observation. I guess they fully believed everything that flew was going to be blown up in less than an hour.

Have thing fly around and spot for big guns has been a thing since the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars

 

[LeChampion1992]

What year is this shit, 1941? This war has accelerated drone warfare more than anyone can imagine, and it's only on its second year so far

I mean drones in mass scale are actually useful against targets. Also this is going to be a breakthrough for insurgencies, anti drone sentiment will be used by the government as terrorists can now pack a grenade or c4 or an IED onto a drone and cause a horrific mass casualty incident. I can imagine shrapnel bombs over a crowded football stadium using the equivalent of a smartphone or tablet which would cause a logistics nightmare.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

What year is this shit, 1941? This war has accelerated drone warfare more than anyone can imagine, and it's only on its second year so far

The tech is advancing so fast I can barely keep up & the Ukrainians are on the literal bleeding edge, but the civilian market is still seeing it a lot faster than if drones were purely a state project. It's truly an open-source platform/weapon; no doubt the exponential developments in 3D printing, controllers & networks, sensors, plus hardware & AI, creates a lot of nightmare scenarios for politicians & generals. I'm just surprised that certain Western nanny-states haven't tried to restrict civilian drone ownership much beyond altitude & size; although it probably keeps some in law enforcement up at night as well*.
* That will change as soon an FPV or Mavic is used to assassinate someone important outside of Ukraine.

 

[DumbDude43]

I mean drones in mass scale are actually useful against targets. Also this is going to be a breakthrough for insurgencies, anti drone sentiment will be used by the government as terrorists can now pack a grenade or c4 or an IED onto a drone and cause a horrific mass casualty incident. I can imagine shrapnel bombs over a crowded football stadium using the equivalent of a smartphone or tablet which would cause a logistics nightmare.

The tech is advancing so fast I can barely keep up & the Ukrainians are on the literal bleeding edge, but the civilian market is still seeing it a lot faster than if drones were purely a state project. It's truly an open-source platform/weapon; no doubt the exponential developments in 3D printing, controllers & networks, sensors, plus hardware & AI, creates a lot of nightmare scenarios for politicians & generals. I'm just surprised that certain Western nanny-states haven't tried to restrict civilian drone ownership much beyond altitude & size; although it probably keeps some in law enforcement up at night as well*.
* That will change as soon an FPV or Mavic is used to assassinate someone important outside of Ukraine.

a drone by itself is just a toy. to make it dangerous you still need to do some old fashioned bomb-building, that's where the bottleneck is.
i don't think the drone is a big deal for civilian terrorism. using your homemade bomb by itself or as a car bomb will get you the same results. better actually, cause civilian drones only cary a small payload (they can't lift a lot of weight) while a car has no such restrictions (mcveigh crammed like two tons of anfo into his truck)

 

[Standardized Profile]

i don't think the drone is a big deal for civilian terrorism. using your homemade bomb by itself or as a car bomb will get you the same results. better actually, cause civilian drones only cary a small payload (they can't lift a lot of weight) while a car has no such restrictions (mcveigh crammed like two tons of anfo into his truck)

Lots of places cars can't go. They're easy to stop. Small bombs are still effective for terrorism. Uncle Ted didn't need a Ryder truck.

 

[CuzinEd]

Lots of places cars can't go. They're easy to stop. Small bombs are still effective for terrorism. Uncle Ted didn't need a Ryder truck.

Ted Kaczynski mailed bombs to people. His first few bombs were basically duds. He built them in wooden boxes which weren't strong enough to contain the blasts so they weren't powerful enough to kill. His first few victims ended up with splinter shrapnel and I believe one guy had a finger blown off. It took him a while to get his bombs right. Kaczynski started in 1978 and kept going sporadically to 1995. Kaczynski was doing these activities in a world that is vastly different compared to the one we have today. In today's world he wouldn't survive as long as he did. A lot of the exploits Kaczynski used have been closed up.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Normie News has caught up with us.