Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion



France will follow Britain’s lead by supplying Ukraine with longer-range missiles days after the UK’s Storm Shadow munitions were used to devastating effect against Russian forces behind the front line.
France has so far delivered Caesar self-propelled howitzers, Milan anti-tank missiles and Mistral anti-aircraft missiles, as well as light armoured vehicles known as AMX-10 RCs.
But it had stopped short of longer-range missiles that would allow Ukraine to strike deep into Russian territory.
However Emmanuel Macron, the French president, has confirmed: “We have decided to send over and above that, new munitions, new missiles that have a range that allows Ukraine to resist and to lead this (upcoming) counteroffensive.”
Britain announced last week that it had given Kyiv long-range cruise missiles that could strike Crimea and attack the crucial bridge linking Russia with mainland Ukraine.

Precision-guided weapons will push back Russian forces​

Storm Shadow missiles, which are launched from warplanes, carry large warheads designed to destroy hardened and even buried targets.
The precision-guided weapons, which cost about £2.2 million each, would allow Ukraine to “push back Russian forces based within Ukrainian sovereign territory”, said Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, in the House of Commons last week.

The French equivalent is SCALP-EG, which stands for "Long Range Autonomous Cruise Missile System – General Purpose”.
Announcing the new missiles, Mr Macron added: “We are not supplying weapons that would be able to reach Russia. Sometimes we have to impose limits.”

Analysts have suggested that this could mean the French have asked for reassurances from the Ukrainians that longer-range missiles would not be used to hit Russian soil.

France open to training Ukrainian fighter jet pilots​

Mr Macron also confirmed that France was open to training Ukrainian fighter jet pilots in France and that those training programmes could start right away.
Asked about delivering warplanes to Ukraine, Mr Macron said he had not discussed that with Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, during his visit to France this weekend.
"I have not talked about airplanes. I have talked about missiles. I have talked about training," he said. Asked about training for Ukraine pilots on French warplanes, he said: "There are no taboos.
“We have opened the door to training pilots along with other European countries that are ready to do so. I believe discussions are underway with the Americans.”
He added that France’s strategy remains “to help Ukraine resist to bring everyone to the negotiating table”.
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Frogs doing something useful for once, will be interesting to see if the US and others follow suit similar to how the did with the Western tanks. Can't imagine they wouldn't if Russia doesn't do shit about it (which they can't/won't), and if Ukraine sticks to it's guarantees not to hit Russia itself (which it likely will).

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Sic semper proditoribus, vatniggers.
 
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Maybe, maybe not but with OPSEC in play who knows. However USA isn't blocking UK or anyone else sending the long range stuff that have U.S. made or licensed parts and components. If and when U.S. long range stuff does show up and we and the rest of the world know about it. It'll be after the fact Ukraine had already use it to blow something up.
 
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In bizarro news, Ukrainian sources claim to have shot down 6 out of 6 Kinzhal rockets fired at Ukriane last night.
Archive

At the same time, Vatniks claim to have a video of a Patriot battery shooting 30 missiles and then being destroyed.
Apparently CNN found somebody in the US government to back this up:
Archive

Would post video I found but upload on TOR and such. Funker530 link:

That video shows a very dispersed launch pattern, no single missiles would have destroyed the battery and one would suspect that the entire system, radar, control, etc, is scattered to avoid single shot kills.



In oil news, China has sustained refinery output:
Archive

While Russia doesn't cut production despite claims they would after EU sanctions:
Archive

Broader questions of sanction busting aside, it looks like Russia has found enough tankers to offload oil.
Keep in mind the Power of Siberia pipeline doesn't run across Russia, only from Irkutsk.

Upshot, energy markets should be well fed while Russia takes a lower cut. Eurocuck bureaucrats and accountants did something that had the intended effect for once.

*Edit: Wording
 
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Alternate Universe Update: 5/14/23

Reports are that Mexican forces have received hundreds of Armata tanks and BMP-3's from Russia, as well as stealth cruise missiles from China which will allow them to attack targets in the US. It's widely believed Mexican forces will launch a counter-offensive in the coming days.

Meanwhile, in the US, M-47 Patton tanks were seen on a train headed to the front. US sources say these will be used primarily as artillery support.

In Cadereyta Jimenez (a town with a population under 80k, less than 80 miles from the US border), after months of hard-fought gains, US forces ceded several kilometers of territory to Mexican forces just yesterday.

Meanwhile there was report that Justin Trudeau got hospitalized after a visit to Washington D.C. Rumurs are circulating that he may be dead.

Other rumors say that Erik Prince is pulling out Blackwater forces after feuding with Lloyd Austin.

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The UK prime minister Rishi Sunak and Dutch leader Mark Rutte have agreed to build an “international coalition” to help procure F-16 fighter jets for Ukraine, the British government has announced.
A Downing Street spokesperson said Sunak and Rutte “would work to build an international coalition to provide Ukraine with combat air capabilities, supporting with everything from training to procuring F-16 jets”.

“The prime minister reiterated his belief that Ukraine’s rightful place is in Nato and the leaders agreed on the importance of allies providing long-term security assistance to Ukraine to guarantee they can deter against future attacks.
“The leaders agreed to continue working together both bilaterally and through forums such as the European Political Community to tackle the scourge of people trafficking on our continent.”

The statement on Tuesday came a day after Ukraine’s president hinted that Kyiv could soon receive F-16 fighter jets, saying he was hopeful of “very important” decisions on the subject with the help of the UK.
Volodymyr Zelenskiy flew in by helicopter for a one-to-one unnanounced meeting with Sunak on Monday at Chequers, the prime minister’s country retreat.
Standing next to Sunak after the meeting, Zelenskiy said they had discussed fighter planes “because we can’t control the sky”, and was positive about persuading the US and other western nations to supply them.
“We spoke about it and I see that in the closest time you will hear some, I think, very important decisions, but we have to work a little bit more on it,” he said.
At the meeting, Britain also promised to supply “hundreds of attack drones”.
The UK said in February that it would begin training Ukrainian pilots in standard Nato techniques, and Downing Street repeated that on Monday, saying the plan was to help “build a new Ukrainian air force with Nato-standard F-16 jets”.
Britain does not use F-16s, which are made by the US defence firm Lockheed Martin in South Carolina. Ukraine has been seeking to obtain them for some time to augment its small Soviet-standard air force because they are widely available, with about 3,000 in service in 25 countries.
Both countries will have to persuade the US if Ukraine is to receive F-16s. Asked later on Monday if the US had changed its position on supplying the jets to Ukraine, John Kirby, a spokesperson for the White House’s national security council, gave a one-word reply: “No.”
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At the rate the UK is going I expect we'll hear about the Ukrainian Navy getting SSNs by Summer.
 
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Blatant hypocrite said:
Some noises about providing F-16s from gov.uk. Announced that they would start training three months ago, not sure whether they're actually doing it.
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Looks like F-16s are a go after all!; the UK and the Netherlands will not only provide training but procurement as well:
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The UK prime minister Rishi Sunak and Dutch leader Mark Rutte have agreed to build an “international coalition” to help procure F-16 fighter jets for Ukraine, the British government has announced.
A Downing Street spokesperson said Sunak and Rutte “would work to build an international coalition to provide Ukraine with combat air capabilities, supporting with everything from training to procuring F-16 jets”.
“The prime minister reiterated his belief that Ukraine’s rightful place is in Nato and the leaders agreed on the importance of allies providing long-term security assistance to Ukraine to guarantee they can deter against future attacks.
“The leaders agreed to continue working together both bilaterally and through forums such as the European Political Community to tackle the scourge of people trafficking on our continent.”
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Belgium is also involved in training the necessary pilots for the F-16:
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Astro Galactic Megalul said:
All this in the context of Kremlin high on their own farts ushering new era of Russian domination, challenging West's hegemony, stumbling at the very first obstacle in Eastern Europe. Wasting strength and treasure just to save face at this point.
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That's the issue isn't. The Ukraine war was supposed to be a demonstration exercise for all the crap Russia has been pushing about the state of its military for the last two decades. Before this war they were talking about how the Russian Army could march all the way to Berlin in a few weeks. Failing to March all the way to Kharkiv (60 kilometers from the Border) is really embarrassing.

Which segways nicely into the latest crowing in the Cope thread is about how Russia totally destroyed a patriot battery with a Kinzal hypersonic missile. First off, X to doubt. You would need waaaaay more then one lucky hit to take out an entire battery, since the individual launchers tend to be dispersed around a wide area. Example this picture.
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This is maximum closeness spacing too. An entire Battery is 8 launchers just like this spread across an entire kilometer grid square, with its ECM control unit somewhere else nearby, also separate from the acquisition radar. Unless that Kinzal was carrying a tactical Nuke, it MAYBE destroyed a single launcher. Possibly two if it was REALLY lucky. If it hit the radar or ECM unit then it didn't hit the launchers at all because those are not kept by the launchers.

Then of course there is the absolute absurdity of using a Nuclear weapon delivery vehicle to destroy a SAM launcher. Wasting something like that on a patriot launcher essentially defeats the point because the launcher still accomplished its intended purpose of preventing the missile being used on something more important, and its not like the Launcher itself is cutting edge tech. The Radar and the ECM are harder to replace, but the launcher itself is just a missile pod on a trailer. The US can have a replacement on the way tomorrow.

This is assuming the Kinzal even hit something of course, pressing X to doubt. By all account Patriot outperformed expectations given the intensity of the barrage. The fact it is even hitting ANYTHING AT ALL is an embarrassment for Russia, because Kinzal was supposed to be impervious to Patriot interception. That was the entire point of the hypersonic cruise missiles creation in the first place.
 
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You will never be a real HCM. You have no maneuvrability, you have no low detectability, you have no specialized engine. You are a ballistic missile twisted by vodka and corruption into a crude mockery of America's fearmongering.

All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back NATO mocks you. Your makers are disappointed and lie about you, your “allies” laugh at your inflated capabilities behind closed doors.

SAMs are able to repulse you. Tens of years of evolution have allowed air defence to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even Kinzhals who “pass” look uncanny and unnatural to a man. Your launch platform is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get into Ukrainian airspace, they’ll shoot you down the second they get a whiff of your intended target.

You will never be groundbreaking. You wrench out a propaganda piece every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the arms race creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a Tu-160, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into a Ukrainian apartment building. Some drunk slav will find you, angry but relieved that they no longer have to live with the power getting knocked out. They’ll send you for analysis in a Western country, and every analyst for the rest of eternity will know an Iskander is buried there. Your payload will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a wreckage that was unmistakably intercepted.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
 
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mindlessobserver said:
Then of course there is the absolute absurdity of using a Nuclear weapon delivery vehicle to destroy a SAM launcher. Wasting something like that on a patriot launcher essentially defeats the point because the launcher still accomplished its intended purpose of preventing the missile being used on something more important, and its not like the Launcher itself is cutting edge tech. The Radar and the ECM are harder to replace, but the launcher itself is just a missile pod on a trailer. The US can have a replacement on the way tomorrow.
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This sounds like "My ship cost less than the ammo you spent to destroy it" from EVE.
 
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Blatant hypocrite said:
You will never be a real HCM. You have no maneuvrability, you have no low detectability, you have no specialized engine. You are a ballistic missile twisted by vodka and corruption into a crude mockery of America's fearmongering.

All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back NATO mocks you. Your makers are disappointed and lie about you, your “allies” laugh at your inflated capabilities behind closed doors.

SAMs are able to repulse you. Tens of years of evolution have allowed air defence to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even Kinzhals who “pass” look uncanny and unnatural to a man. Your launch platform is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get into Ukrainian airspace, they’ll shoot you down the second they get a whiff of your intended target.

You will never be groundbreaking. You wrench out a propaganda piece every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the arms race creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a Tu-160, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into a Ukrainian apartment building. Some drunk slav will find you, angry but relieved that they no longer have to live with the power getting knocked out. They’ll send you for analysis in a Western country, and every analyst for the rest of eternity will know an Iskander is buried there. Your payload will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a wreckage that was unmistakably intercepted.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
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Yes, I somehow fucking suffered through the upload to bring you guys that.

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No, I don't know why he slapped an ERA block on the fucking thermal sights.

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Zelensky with Sunak vs. Zelensky with Macron. He knows which is his friend and which isn't.

As to news:
https://archive.ph/E4D5q

Russia aims to obtain more attack drones from Iran after depleting stockpile, White House says​

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Time for Iran to go steal some more Rotax engines, I guess.

https://archive.is/20iFm

Russian Officials Unnerved by Ukraine Bloodshed Are Contacting CIA, Agency Says​

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Yes, I absolutely believe they are. The CIA is magnificent at these sorts of quiet operations, and there's probably no end of seething Russians eager to get something out of this after Putin upset their corruption gravy trains.

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Ukraine is refusing to talk about the extent of the damage for obvious reasons, but it still doesn't look good for Russia if the USA is coming out and saying they couldn't even take out a single fucking launcher.

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Photo from Utah. Unknown if its the same tank or a different one. Same destination, though.

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Obviously the soldiers includes WiA and not just KiA but that's still 25k dead Russians if we assume a ratio of 3:1 for wounded:dead.
 

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