Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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Markass the Worst said:
The year of the Wayland desktop will happen at the same time as the year of the Linux desktop.
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Gnome has already replaced X11 with Wayland as default, Plasma 6 will also use Wayland as default, Xfce is already implementing Wayland support. Linux normies are probably using Wayland rn and didn't even notice. There has never been such a push to depreciate X11 and Pulseaudio like in the last year or so.
 
The Natural Bodybuilder said:
Gnome has already replaced X11 with Wayland as default, Plasma 6 will also use Wayland as default, Xfce is already implementing Wayland support. Linux normies are probably using Wayland rn and didn't even notice. There has never been such a push to depreciate X11 and Pulseaudio like in the last year or so.
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I run it on my personal laptop - there are performance advantages on that hardware - but on the work system I run X11 due to the OS on there still having some screenshare problems in Wayland.

So it's a mixed bag. I just wish they would've put all this effort into improving X. I don't give a fuck that remote terminal abstraction is 'archaic' or whatever, it's still fucking cool.
 
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The Natural Bodybuilder said:
Linux normies are probably using Wayland rn and didn't even notice.
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I'm stuck using fucking Manjaro for one machine, and it would certainly explain the graphical flaws unlike any I've ever seen beforehand. The ultimate Red Hat goal is to turn GNU/Linux into something like Windows, broken and with no user choice because everything's so difficult to build. Then they can make everything feed themselves.

Mikoyan said:
I just wish they would've put all this effort into improving X. I don't give a fuck that remote terminal abstraction is 'archaic' or whatever, it's still fucking cool.
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The fundamental issue is that UNIX clones have no concept of a core graphical user interface. It's an operating system for teletypewriters and it fucking shows. Ironically, MIT made X11 and Sun of all places made NeWS, which was apparently a much better system, but we know how that battle went.

The UNIX-HATERS Handbook said:
As a result, Unix never developed a rational plan or model for programs to interact with a VDT. Half-implemented hack (such as termcap) after half implemented hack (such as curses) have been invented to give programs some form of terminal independence, but the root problem has never been solved. Few Unix applications can make any use of “smart” terminal features other than cursor positioning, line insert, line delete, scroll regions, and inverse video. If your terminal has provisions for line drawing, protecting fields, double-height characters, or programmable function keys, that’s just too darn bad: this is Unix. The logical culmination of this catch-as-catch-can attitude is the X Window System, a monstrous kludge that solves these problems by replacing them with a much larger and costlier set of problems.
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I can't see any real benefit to using anything beyond X11 and ALSA. I've never had a problem with either of them but yet these modern linux cucks think we need to replace everything with shit that crashes every hour or can't render triangles. Wayland isn't the future, it never will be, and Pipewire can hang itself just like PulseAudio.
 
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UERISIMILITUDO said:
I'm stuck using fucking Manjaro for one machine, and it would certainly explain the graphical flaws unlike any I've ever seen beforehand. The ultimate Red Hat goal is to turn GNU/Linux into something like Windows, broken and with no user choice because everything's so difficult to build. Then they can make everything feed themselves.


The fundamental issue is that UNIX clones have no concept of a core graphical user interface. It's an operating system for teletypewriters and it fucking shows. Ironically, MIT made X11 and Sun of all places made NeWS, which was apparently a much better system, but we know how that battle went.
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I had the Handbook back in the day. Like a lot of my opinions on its content, that quote is... kind of half right. It would've been great if there was an integrated text terminal system for Unix better than what we got, but there was sort of no point - field and form based terminals were pretty neat in some ways and were shit for an interactive system in other ways. Also they were ungodly expensive, and usually needed FEP/controller systems that were even more expensive.

I never used NeWS though I was always intrigued by anything that used PostScript for this kind of thing. It seemed like a good way to go, and if everyone'd converged on it e would've had some very very good PS accelerators for both print and video. But everyone had to go their own way.
 
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Markass the Worst said:
Why the fuck does this faggot get a whole ass news article for his mastodon post?
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He's working on an interesting niche product, but he also used the byuu saga to elevate his profile significantly. It's almost like he was exploiting someone's apparent death for his own personal gain.

There are enough mindless faggots in the media and the open source "community" to be swayed by shiny newness. Wayland is the same sort of effort as pulseaudio, being largely driven by egotists who don't want to mucky their hands making an existing project work, but who would rather make a new project so they can be the lead developers and control everything. I will grant that it is at least not an opinionated wrapper around X11, which is a step above pulse (developed entirely because poettering couldn't configure alsa's audio mixer properly),, but the whole project is still driven by the same sort of lazy developers who don't think or plan ahead, and have no coherent vision or goals in mind. The presence of numerous special exceptions, to accommodate the quirks of different desktop environments, is proof of this. A well-planned project would create a single interface against which DEs should be developed, rather than trying to entice them with promises of customised behaviour.

Marcan is exactly the sort of idiot that wayland is pitched at. To him, Xorg represents the "old", meritocratic way of open software development, which he opposes because it didn't sufficiently stroke his ego.
 
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Markass the Worst said:
The year of the Wayland desktop will happen at the same time as the year of the Linux desktop.
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Am using Plasma on Wayland currently, I moved over from X11/Awesomewm and honestly it's a much smoother experience. It helps that hidpi scaling on Wayland actually works and you don't have to use picom which is honestly the worst. That and not allowing random programs to capture the screen and read/submit keypresses willy-nilly is pretty neat, not that it really matters considering 99% of activity is on the web and the rest is in vim.
 
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Cuckoman said:
This is literally how I used to debug new designs during bring-up until I got an interrupt driven UART working.
(And how I used to debug uC that were so small that they didn't even have a UART.)
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If you never had to debug a computer by tracing a video signal with an oscilloscope to figure out where it breaks, then are you even alive?
 
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teriyakiburns said:
Wayland is the same sort of effort as pulseaudio, being largely driven by egotists who don't want to mucky their hands making an existing project work, but who would rather make a new project so they can be the lead developers and control everything.
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Wayland is developed by former X.Org developers
 
Cuckoman said:
This is literally how I used to debug new designs during bring-up until I got an interrupt driven UART working.
(And how I used to debug uC that were so small that they didn't even have a UART.)
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Had to do this recently to debug some retarded I2C code that was mysteriously failing (it was a timing issue). Didn't help that the hardware guys made the I2C bus probe as small as fucking humanly possible.
 
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teriyakiburns said:
He's working on an interesting niche product, but he also used the byuu saga to elevate his profile significantly. It's almost like he was exploiting someone's apparent death for his own personal gain.

There are enough mindless faggots in the media and the open source "community" to be swayed by shiny newness. Wayland is the same sort of effort as pulseaudio, being largely driven by egotists who don't want to mucky their hands making an existing project work, but who would rather make a new project so they can be the lead developers and control everything. I will grant that it is at least not an opinionated wrapper around X11, which is a step above pulse (developed entirely because poettering couldn't configure alsa's audio mixer properly),, but the whole project is still driven by the same sort of lazy developers who don't think or plan ahead, and have no coherent vision or goals in mind. The presence of numerous special exceptions, to accommodate the quirks of different desktop environments, is proof of this. A well-planned project would create a single interface against which DEs should be developed, rather than trying to entice them with promises of customised behaviour.

Marcan is exactly the sort of idiot that wayland is pitched at. To him, Xorg represents the "old", meritocratic way of open software development, which he opposes because it didn't sufficiently stroke his ego.
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Oh, its even funnier with Marcan, since if you've been looking through the 2021 twitter meltdown tread that he's intertwined with byuu, you'd know that he's damn focused on making linux rewritten in rust and has been able to do so since they dropped the no psydonyms rule, so now even if you don't want marcan's shitty linux distro, you're forced to run marcan's shitty distro, which you know will boost his ego.
 
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Ducks Sorted in a Row said:
That and not allowing random programs to capture the screen and read/submit keypresses willy-nilly is pretty neat, not that it really matters considering 99% of activity is on the web and the rest is in vim.
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It doesn't really matter otherwise either, unless you are running X programs over the network or from distinct users, expecting there to be good isolation between the two. Last time I checked, Wayland explicitly didn't support the former anyway (so that comparison is moot) and the latter is something almost nobody does, especially not the users that "X11 will get you hacked" is marketed towards. For most people, an attacker who could abuse the "insecure" X11 could also just yoink your keys from .ssh/ and put a hijacked browser into your path. It was always a stupid marketing gimmick.
Deranged Deez said:
Wayland is developed by former X.Org developers
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Pulseaudio, Wayland and X.Org are all part of freedesktop.org, which brought you shitware classics like Avahi, PolicyKit and NetworkManager.
 
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