Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Just passing by, want to say that I absolutely hate how support for Ukraine is associated with anarcho-liberal commietrannies and globalist furfaggots. It's a war of survival, not a war of LGBTHIV Hogwarts Marvel for troon rights and DemOCracY. Everytime I voice support for Ukraine, I always get asked whether I support trannyfaggots and globalism and I'm getting really MATI about this.

It's grugbrain one-dimensional thinking that there are exactly two sides to every issue and everybody on each side is in full agreement with each other on every other issue. Just remember that there are plenty of unironic socialist types who support Russia because they still think it's le based worker's paradise it apparently was during the USSR and/or have bought into the "de-nazification" narrative. You could also reframe it and ask these people asking you this if they would defend their property if their neighbor decided to unilaterally declare that a third of it now belonged to them, and if they'd accept the help from other neighbors in doing so.

Is supporting foreign states in funding and arming Ukraine in this fight globalist? Yeah, I guess so, but there's a leap between supporting that and supporting drag story hour and whatever. The two are not intrinsically related. And supporting one tribe in their fight against another by proxy is nearly as old an idea as warfare itself.

(Or, better yet, just ignore people when they try to drag you in to arguments on current events and political topics and go do literally anything else instead.)
 
Don't worry, you're just encountering schizo /pol/tards who obsess over gay tranny interracial furry buttsex 24/7 as every based Aryan chad clearly would. Lol.
Plus there's a lot of "spectrum" and mentally ill types in that sphere that can't think in nuance or understand that the world isn't black and white.
 
Plus there's a lot of "spectrum" and mentally ill types in that sphere that can't think in nuance or understand that the world isn't black and white.
The entire dynamic of this war buck broke their brains. Ukraine by all measures is the most conservative country in Europe, with the highest of rate of church service on the continent per capita. Its also led by a Jew who made "le funny shows" on the teevee where he dressed up in spandex and stiletto's. Now, the context of that particular skit was to lampoon western pop culture, but context is for libtards apparently. Along with the context that what is going on in Ukraine is the long delayed Soviet Civil War. The last gasp of a dying empire trying to cling to something it no longer has any right or ability to hold on to. That "Globohomo" is on the side of Ukraine is irrelevant to the context of this situation, much like the gif of Zelensky in heels that keeps getting spammed by Russiaboos. Even more important is it does have a national identity and narrative that predates Moscows, and that is something the Russians really don't like. Slavic Culture may have started around Kiev, but it belongs to Moscow now and come hell or high water Moscow will make that historical narrative stick. Even if they have to burn Kiev to the Ground. So much for based nationalism and all that.

The pro-Russian side of this argument, especially on the farms likes to catastrophize the situation as if its some sort of existential fight between tradition, god and truth against the globo homo agenda. Ignoring the fact that Putin does not give a solitary shit about them, and the Russian Orthodox has become seen as borderline heretical by the rest of the Orthodox communion, with pure inertia and fear of second order consequences being the only things preventing the Brother bishops excommunicating Kiril and everyone who kisses his ring. Hardly the vanguard of the restoration of Christian virtue, the Russian church is.

Hasnt this shit been going on since 2014 tho? plus russia seems to have handled the sanctions by just rerouting its exports thru proxies, tho I havent keep up with economic news from there so no idea about current numbers
Yes and no. In 2014 it "has" been going on, but it was localized and largely a frozen conflict. It was not a full blown great power war where you see the mass mobilization of populations and industry. That changed on February 24, 2022 when Russian sent several Guards Army groups into Ukraine. People call this an "escalation" of an existing conflict, but really it was the gloves off moment the actual war started. Russia has now been forced to initiate the draft and dig around in strategic weapons stockpiles to fight for the past year, and at the rate of burn will probably run out in 2025. The Soviets were very scientific in their approach to warfare and made sure they has sufficient stockpiles of everything to fight a war for several years. Russia is using that stockpile now, with no sign of being able to replenish it any time soon.

At a fundamental level I think there is a growing realization in the west that Russia will run out of Ammo long before Ukraine runs out of Bodies and the West out of Money.
 
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Just passing by, want to say that I absolutely hate how support for Ukraine is associated with anarcho-liberal commietrannies and globalist furfaggots. It's a war of survival, not a war of LGBTHIV Hogwarts Marvel for troon rights and DemOCracY. Everytime I voice support for Ukraine, I always get asked whether I support trannyfaggots and globalism and I'm getting really MATI about this.
Thank Biden and the democrat leadership and useful idiots for that. As they unfortunately also been pushing for the anarcho-liberal commietrannism and globalist furfaggotry in their support of Ukraine. As the American pro and anti Ukraine sides are hinged entirely on being pro or anti Biden, and Ukraine is just a tool to deny the other side the win.
 
The entire dynamic of this war buck broke their brains. Ukraine by all measures is the most conservative country in Europe
The problem is Ukraine is both a fascist nazi state of ultra-nationalist extremists who genocide minorities and love Hitler, but also at the same time a globohomo tranny-loving gay democracy ruled over by a JEW. As absurd as that is it's the narrative they have lapped up and it's not by accident.

Russia's propaganda mission is not necessarily to push the Kremlin's viewpoint onto Westerners, but rather to bombard our people with confusion and bafflement, and generally sow chaos and a feeling of mistrust and paranoia. Fling shit everywhere, what sticks is great, what doesn't stick creates a big stinky mess that people just cannot shift through or see beyond.

Our brains are hardwired to find patterns to make sense of the world around us, and Russia preys on this by giving people 1000 tools for 3 jobs. Naturally they feel hopelessly overburdened, and so they pick whatever shiny tool they see first in the pile for each of those jobs, not the best ones in the pile. And so people do a poor job of, in this case, understanding what's going on.

The cognitive dissonance people display in one minute saying Ukraine has to be invaded to stop nazi genocide, and the next saying Ukraine is being liberated from homo-jewish ZOG, shows how effective this method is vs the traditional "we are right here's why" propaganda.

Of course it doesn't work on everyone. But for people who are already primed to accept the most extreme interpretations of world events, like /pol/tards or tankies, it works wonders.
 
Plus the "right" been thoroughly indoctrinated into siding with the communists on these two goals from the The Original Complete List Of The 45 Declared Goals For The Communist Takeover Of America
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war. 2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
In which in their opinion it is better for the USA and world that Ukraine along with all of the former Imperial Russia and USSR held countries are permanently enslaved by Russia then risk any possible nuclear exchange or war.

Edit: However the "right" isn't a singular entity so those who never drank the commie flavor aid, and the younger generations are opposed to bending over and handing over anybody back to communist slavery.
 
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The problem is Ukraine is both a fascist nazi state of ultra-nationalist extremists who genocide minorities and love Hitler, but also at the same time a globohomo tranny-loving gay democracy ruled over by a JEW. As absurd as that is it's the narrative they have lapped up and it's not by accident.

Russia's propaganda mission is not necessarily to push the Kremlin's viewpoint onto Westerners, but rather to bombard our people with confusion and bafflement, and generally sow chaos and a feeling of mistrust and paranoia. Fling shit everywhere, what sticks is great, what doesn't stick creates a big stinky mess that people just cannot shift through or see beyond.

Our brains are hardwired to find patterns to make sense of the world around us, and Russia preys on this by giving people 1000 tools for 3 jobs. Naturally they feel hopelessly overburdened, and so they pick whatever shiny tool they see first in the pile for each of those jobs, not the best ones in the pile. And so people do a poor job of, in this case, understanding what's going on.

The cognitive dissonance people display in one minute saying Ukraine has to be invaded to stop nazi genocide, and the next saying Ukraine is being liberated from homo-jewish ZOG, shows how effective this method is vs the traditional "we are right here's why" propaganda.

Of course it doesn't work on everyone. But for people who are already primed to accept the most extreme interpretations of world events, like /pol/tards or tankies, it works wonders.
This is why you always reject their cheap memes based on one tranny sighting in Kyyyiiiv or some weird club doing queer shit, or some 2015 video from some far right chuds bullying fags and gypsies, and instead you demand that the country is estimated and talked about in statistics, not emotionally charged memeable rare events.
I know there is a lot of respect and reverence for good meme-ing on KF, and yes sometimes that can be useful, funny and a way to drive home an idea, but when it comes to serious issues, always reject the exceptions/peculiarity-based easy to swallow memes, they are always made to appeal to low IQ normies who cannot control their brainworks and are easily pushed around by propaganda items.
 
LOOK LISA!

You can see the exact moment Putin broke their hearts.

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Dude on the right is literally a meme! :story:
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More Ukrainian POWs being castrated while in Russian captivity (Paywalled article):
Archive
The Ukrainian soldiers, aged 25 and 28, had been in Russian captivity — one for one month, the other for three.
After their return in a prisoner swap they had been referred to Anzhelika Yatsenko, 41, a psychologist in Poltava who deals with troubled young men. They were suicidal. The younger one had tried to kill himself. “I knew from previous cases they had probably been tortured,” she said. “As someone who gets referred the hardest cases, mostly men under 35, it’s very hard to surprise me.”

When they finally told her, it was, she said, “the first time I behaved not like a professional psychologist”.

“I’d never heard anything so horrible. I told them I needed the bathroom and went and cried and cried. I didn’t want them to see as they might think there’s no hope.”
The two men had been savagely beaten. Then the drunken Russians castrated them with a knife.
“One of them told me, ‘I don’t know how I am still alive, there was so much blood, I thought I’d die of blood poisoning’,” she said.
“And of course it’s not just the physical damage. Imagine, they are young men just starting their sexual life and then in one second it’s all over. They still feel something, all these hormones, but they can’t do anything. They can never be sexually active. For a young man it’s the worst thing to happen.
“Their dignity has been damaged so badly and it’s impossible to forget. The Russians told them, ‘We are doing this so you can’t have kids.’ To me this is genocide.”
Their treatment illustrates the heavy cost of this brutal war — one that is only likely to rise as Ukrainian forces try to breach Russian lines in the early stages of their counteroffensive.
Using new western kit, including German Leopard tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles from the US and Storm Shadow cruise missiles from the UK, the Ukrainians have been trying to punch their way through parts of the 600-mile front line from Donbas in the east to the Zaporizhzhia region in the south, where they hope to cut off Russia’s land bridge to Crimea.

There have been many reports of Ukrainians insisting on returning to battle even after losing arms and legs.
Astonishingly, among those fighting is the older of the two castrated men whom Yatsenko has been counselling. “He insisted on rejoining,” she said shaking her head. “He says he’s needed and it’s easier being in a place where there are no women. I guess, given what happened, he wants to kill Russians.”
She has another fear, however. “He may feel his life is worth nothing and just wants to die.”
Thousands of soldiers on both sides have been taken prisoner in the 16 months since the Russian invasion. Kyiv does not release figures but there have been periodic prisoner swaps such as that which saw the return of these two men. Last Monday President Zelensky posted a video to greet the return of 95 prisoners, noting 2,526 had been returned so far. “We remember everyone, we are searching for each and every one of them, and we have to bring them all back,” he said. “And we will.”
Yatsenko believes her patients are not the only ones to have been castrated. “They told me the Russians performed the castration procedure very skilfully, as if they knew how to do it. And I’ve heard about a lot of cases from colleagues treating others.”
Last July a sickening video emerged, posted on pro-Russian Telegram channels, that appeared to show a Russian soldier castrating a Ukrainian prisoner. The soldier, wearing the distinctive Russian Z patch, is wearing blue surgical gloves and holding a green box-cutter knife as he reaches down on a prisoner lying face down with his hands tied, his mouth gagged and the back of his trousers cut away. The prisoner is wearing Ukrainian camouflage. A second video appears to show the same prisoner shot, his testicles stuffed in his mouth.
“All the world needs to understand: Russia is a country of cannibals who enjoy torture and murder,” tweeted Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Zelensky. “But the fog of war will not help Russian executioners avoid punishment. We identify everyone. We will get everyone.”
Whether or not the perpetrators are tracked down, their victims’ lives have been irrevocably changed.
While there has been widespread international outrage and help for women and girls raped by Russians in occupied territories, there has been far less attention to sexual violence against men and boys, whether under occupation or in captivity.

Yatsenko said the men were hard to treat. “They take a lot of antidepressants, that’s all. And we try to find some distractions for them. They can’t talk to their families or friends.
“The younger one who tried to commit suicide had a girlfriend who told him she accepted him as he was but it was too hard for him to stay with her so they are now apart.”
Last week she said he had stopped speaking.
“The other one had a girl he liked and planned to ask out but now cannot tell her. It’s all just so sad,” she said, “I will never forget.
“On one hand I feel rage, on the other it’s pain. When I watch videos of our Ukrainian soldiers I’m so proud of them, but then I hear these stories.”
Like many Ukrainians, Yatsenko has close links with Russia. Her father is Russian and she lived there, in Rostov, until she was 18, when she moved to Ukraine to study and never went back. They are no longer in touch.
“This thirst for violence is in Russians’ blood,” she said. “I saw it growing up. They always hated us Ukrainians, abused our women as prostitutes. When I said I was going to study in Poltava, they laughed at me.
“They can’t beat us on the battlefield, the whole world is helping us, so they do this — to demoralise us, to spread fear, to have this small revenge. It’s like blowing up the [Kakhovka] dam [on June 6], they can’t have Kherson so they destroy it.”
Doctors at the maternity hospital in Poltava said they had been consulted about women from occupied areas who had been raped by Russians then had their vaginas injected with window sealant so they can never have children.
Yatsenko shook her head. “I have a client from Georgia and she was tortured by Russians during the war there [in 2008] and fled to Ukraine. When war started here, she immediately took her kids and left, telling me, ‘I know what they are doing with young girls.’ I didn’t understand then, but now I do.”
Since the counteroffensive began last week, the Ukrainians have liberated a handful of villages in farming the hinterland of eastern Donetsk just south of the frontline town of Velyka Novosilka, and about 80 miles north of the decimated Russian-occupied city of Mariupol.
Although these victories have enabled them to post morale-boosting videos of troops waving flags, these are tiny places and this is incremental progress, less than a mile, at what appears to be a heavy cost.
Moscow has posted images of destroyed Ukrainian tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles and claims to have taken many Ukrainian lives. Ukraine says it has killed more troops than it has lost but conceded that there was “extremely fierce fighting” in the Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk regions as troops inched south, and according to western officials is taking “significant casualties”.
Access for the media has been tightly restricted. The Ukrainian defence ministry is sticking to the line “plans love silence” and citing operational security, making it hard to get a clear picture.
On Thursday, we visited part of the liberated area with the American billionaire philanthropist Howard Buffett — son of Warren — and one of the organisations he funds, the Global Empowerment Mission (GEM) set up by the Miami businessman Michael Capponi, taking in the first aid since liberation.
Ukraine’s control appeared tenuous. Though most of the noise was outgoing fire from pounding Ukrainian howitzers, there had been airstrikes the previous day on Velyka Novosilka.

The once bustling town of 50,000 has fewer than 5,000 mostly elderly people who do not want to leave. One group of 49 had been living for more than a year in the basement of a school that has been extensively shelled, its roof blown off. Iryna Babkina, 46, the music teacher, who the others describe as their mayor, gave us a tour of their damp-smelling underground accommodation, including beds, tables and chairs, sacks of potatoes, a stove and a fish tank with four miniature goldfish. Outside dogs and cats ran around.
“There are explosions all the time but we know our forces are pushing Russians back so we will stay here to victory,” said Katerina Subert, 68, who before the war worked as a cook in the local food-canning factory. “It’s not much of a life but we have got used to it.”
A planned trip on to recently freed Neskuchne had to be abandoned because of shelling and we bumped along country lanes to Zolota Nyva, a hamlet liberated earlier where villagers appeared in tears to see outsiders with boxes of basics such as flour, sunflower oil, toilet paper and toothpaste. “This is the first aid we have been brought,” said Tanya Silivonits, 38. “It was so hard under the Russians, we just lived on what we could grow.”
Even there, we were forced to make a hasty exit as two Russian drones appeared overhead.
Just after we drove back through Velyka Novosilka the town was shelled again.
“It’s difficult. We’re only getting two or three hours sleep,” said Pavlo, the commander of one artillery brigade providing cover for infantry advancing on Marinka, 30 miles to the east. “But bit by bit we’re pushing forward and they are retreating and today was a good day.”
 
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Basically the African delegation came with a boiler plate 10 point peace plan, and Putin told them to get fucked because Evil Ukraine won't do the needful and fucking die.
It was pretty funny when Zelensky essentially said the same thing to their faces, and then sent them on a side-quest to free up more POWs.
 
More Ukrainian POWs being castrated while in Russian captivity (Paywalled article):
Shit like this is why I can't be sorry for any Russians who die in this war. It isn't just the leadership that's fucked. They are fucked up all the way down, from Putin himself to the lowliest Vatnik. They deserve whatever they get.
 
just out of curiosity, what are the names of the villages Ukraine captured just recently?
"Just out of curiosity" is a funny way of saying "I want to call it too small to matter".

e: But here's a nice map. Knock yourself out.

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While you're at it, remind the pussycat that the top armour of a tank turret isn't going to be the same thickness as the side and front armour.
 
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Kind of a nothingburger, apart from to the opposition people of Belarus who feel this is their last nail in the independence coffin.
Nukes have been surrounding Ukraine's border since well before the invasion, and the west doesn't care, the ones in Kaliningrad are already way closer.

It sets a precedent for propagation of nukes into the world again, but let's face it, europe is still a murcan missile base too.
It doesn't matter. No one will ever use their nuclear weapons because of MAD. Nuclear weapons haven't been a big issue since the Soviet Union and everyone else acquired them. The US had a small window to nuke Moscow with no fear of retaliation and they never did. The Russians and Americans aren't going to ever use nuclear weapons on themselves or anyone else.
Just passing by, want to say that I absolutely hate how support for Ukraine is associated with anarcho-liberal commietrannies and globalist furfaggots. It's a war of survival, not a war of LGBTHIV Hogwarts Marvel for troon rights and DemOCracY. Everytime I voice support for Ukraine, I always get asked whether I support trannyfaggots and globalism and I'm getting really MATI about this.
I get this as well. I am not even a rabid supporter of Ukraine. I just want to watch war porn and see what's going on. I get hit the same BS just for saying the Russians are losing. It's retarded vatniggers. They are about as dumb as real niggers. Like real niggers they don't know how to behave. Like someone else said it's terminally online faggots that are obsessed with trannies and faggots. They think Reddit and Twitter are real life.
 
The african visit made it very clear that, while we'll be nice to blackie when things are on the up, when the chips are actually down, no politician gives a fuck about Africa. Which is one of the few moments where they properly and accurately reflect the will of their constituents.

I've looked around a bit and none of the articles had any information on the specifics of the African delegation's peace plan. Compare that to the Chinese one where you can find a specific list of demands, even if some of them are a bit vague. That makes me wonder if they didn't have a plan so much as to go to the leaders and say "pwease stop fighting and causing food insecurity problems for us and increasing the risk of civil strife that might see us exiled or hanged." That's a pretty easy request for both sides to ignore at this point.

Maybe it'll be good for Africa in the long run if it incentivizes them to figure out how to grow their own grain. It's a big place and not all of it is arid or desert. If the politicians could stop being kleptocratic assholes for a few minutes and protect foreign investors' necks from being macheted maybe they could get a bit more agriculture going.
 
Maybe it'll be good for Africa in the long run if it incentivizes them to figure out how to grow their own grain.
That's the thing, they know how to do it just fine. The problem with Africa is that they don't have enough functional storage, meaning about a third to half of their crops spoil before they get anywhere near market, but more importantly, they keep having economically destructive wars that prevent the formation of a stable agricultural base. There are also cultural issues in many places, which prevent people rising above subsistence levels of farming. Very short version is that any surplus is immediately sucked away by parasitic relatives and nobody understands the concept of investing to expand production of increase efficiencies. This attitude pervades every levle of society, which is why africa is mostly ruled by grasping kleptocrats.
 
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