Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

The T-55 & T-62s have weird caliber guns, so very likely that tank was out of ammo with poor prospects for more arriving any time soon due to Russian logistics.
What's amusing is that Russia has some pretty nasty bombs aside from the cluster munitions & thermobarics, including the 10,000lb FAB-9000 (actually 9471 lbs, but near enough); yet they didn't have any aircraft or missiles capable of handling the mission, since artillery obviously couldn't do the job. But instead, Russian unit commander's are having to MacGuyverich their own armored ground-based JDAMs together to handle a Ukrainian strong point.

And on that note, descriptions I've seen for the video all state that it was remote-controlled.... but was it? In Syria there were no shortage of volunteers willing to akbar themselves into oblivion riding a VBIED; and when there wasn't, they'd chain some poor bastard strapped with a bomb-vest to the steering wheel and order him to drive straight at whatever needed to be blasted. I wonder if Russia learned some other things in Syria as well, since it's not like they have a shortage of poor bastards they can strap into a tank filled with explosives & send towards Ukrainian lines.... plus it's not like there's much left to tell if there were. Even though remote-controlling anything these days is fairly simple, I think it's more likely there was an actual driver.
 
And on that note, descriptions I've seen for the video all state that it was remote-controlled.... but was it?
I was also wondering this.

I don't doubt that between them they would have the mechanical know-how to make something like that work, but it seems like you would need some sort of A-Team-level talent to pull that together in a short period of time, unless this kind of attack has been in the planning for awhile.

Just going from the RC receiver, you're looking at 3 - 4 PWM channels.

I'm guessing 1 per side for throttle in the simplest implementation, and another for triggering the detonation (2 if you're smart and want to reduce chances of it detonating in the middle of your camp when you plug it in).

In an old tank like this, what's the minimal servo you'd need to control a throttle? (I genuinely don't know, maybe there's some kind of throttle control linkage that would be most mechanically efficient to manipulate?)

But the less hobby equipment (or maybe equipment cannibalized from large fixed-wing drones) they are able to use, the more complicated the implementation is going to get, translating digital signals to analog, different mechanisms to actuate non-servo electrical motors...

Or just send a very motivated/drunk private out there.
 
With that said, I started a fun little Vatnik Cope Bingo card, if anyone cares to fill in remaining copes that we expect the vatniks, russiaboos, tankies and other assorted RU simps to claim as the counter-offensive progresses.
>"Ukraine is a vassal state for the globohomo elite, and if it weren't for them Russia would've won!"

>"Russia might've lost *insert battle/town/area/etc. here*, but at least it doesn't have trannies/gays/leftists/niggers/etc.!"

>"Drones did not capture another pair of Russians screwing each other on camera again! It's all just globohomo propaganda to try, and make Russia look bad!"
 
This is a gruesome subject and I hate to even think about it, but I've heard a few times that "castration" of captured soldiers often means everything. For example, here's an Insights from Ukraine and Russia video:
It will need to be thought about because its a war crime. The units involved will need to have their commanding officers identified. Not so much that they actually end up in the dock, but rather so their names go on a list and they can never leave Russia again because their is an Interpol red notice out for their ass.

There won't be some grand nuremburg trial at the end of this mess, sadly. But what there can be is the formal account, and everyone involved will go into the history record with that wonderful citation attached to the summation of their life. "I Was Colonol Ivan Ivanovich. I served for 30 years in the Russian Army and fought in the Ukraine War."*


*During the war my unit was accused of engaging in rapes, execution of civilians and the forced emasculation (castration of the Scrotum and Penis) of Prisoners of War. I was charged by the Tribunal as a War Criminal but never stood trial. Found guilty in abstentia with a sentence of death of by hanging or martial firing squad (my choice, never taken), I never could leave Russia again.
 
TBCF, probing attacks are giving questionable gaines, and Ukraine really can't afford to waste men or equipment. Its also not great for morale. They are losing vehiciles and men are getting killed and captured - whatever action happened at the dam didn't result in anything.
Its all going to come down to if Ukraine can find any areas to make a move.
The probing attacks are necessary however. It would be much more catastrophic for Ukraine to launch a massive attack, only for it to stall and grind down due to running into a brick wall. So, like it or not, Ukraine needs these attacks, costly as they are, to find a seam to hit.
 
Two RPGs launched at Ukrainian tank from a Russian trench, one hits;

Likely RPG-29s. Tandem warheads are mean; with the penetration of ATGMs, just less deflagration/explosive power (usually).

I was also wondering this.

I don't doubt that between them they would have the mechanical know-how to make something like that work, but it seems like you would need some sort of A-Team-level talent to pull that together in a short period of time, unless this kind of attack has been in the planning for awhile.

Just going from the RC receiver, you're looking at 3 - 4 PWM channels.

I'm guessing 1 per side for throttle in the simplest implementation, and another for triggering the detonation (2 if you're smart and want to reduce chances of it detonating in the middle of your camp when you plug it in).

In an old tank like this, what's the minimal servo you'd need to control a throttle? (I genuinely don't know, maybe there's some kind of throttle control linkage that would be most mechanically efficient to manipulate?)
The hard part is clutch control, and the fact that those T-55s will put the driver into muscle failure with too much turning or stop/go conditions. It takes a lot of force to run those controls, and I doubt they have the industrial-strength servos required to make it work; something that no small drone or Alibaba would have, and most likely would have to be sourced from pilfered construction or factory equipment.

It's probably a lot easier to pull someone from a penal battalion/punishment brigade, or just grab a retreating soldier & force them into driving the tank towards Ukrainian trenches; and no need to inform them the thing is actually a rolling dual JDAM either.
 
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The probing attacks are necessary however. It would be much more catastrophic for Ukraine to launch a massive attack, only for it to stall and grind down due to running into a brick wall. So, like it or not, Ukraine needs these attacks, costly as they are, to find a seam to hit.
Caveat: I'm the product of a specific type of "warfare" at a certain echelon and am open to correction

But,
While I fully agree that you need to know the disposition of most enemy forces before undertaking a fully-committed and decisive counteroffensive,

I don't know that I agree that what we're being shown, which appears to be reconnaissance (?) in force across broad fronts is necessarily a requirement of such an intelligence-gathering effort.

I won't quote American doctrine here, I'll go for something a little more obscure just to make the point that this isn't just an American interpretation.

Trüppenführung (1933) Chapter 3, Aufklärung (Reconnaissance)
120. Reconnaissance should produce a picture of the enemy situation as rapidly, completely and reliably as possible. The results are the most important basis for the commander's decisions and the deployment of the force.
121. Reconnaissance, both air and ground, can be either tactical or operational. It can be augmented by special means (Paragraphs 184-189).
Operational reconnaissance provides the basis for the command and deployment of units. Combat reconnaissance begins after initial contact with the enemy and provides information for the control of the battle. All arms participate in this process.
123. The forces deployed for reconnaissance missions should not be greater than mission requirement.
Reconnaissance forces must be deployed in the primary direction in sufficient time, especially if superior enemy reconnaissance forces are anticipated. Only the absolute minimum force will be committed to secondary directions.
Short duration missions should be the objective. Based on the situation it may be necessary to withhold reconnaissance forces, to extend their mission, or to commit them in a new direction.
...
If reconnaissance elements are forced to break through the enemy reconnaissance screen in order to accomplish their missions, they must assemble their forces quickly to push through with surprise. If the enemy has superiority, friendly reconnaissance may be accomplished through the use of skillful evasive measures.
It goes on from there into aerial reconnaissance and comments on the use of horse-mounted cavalry and motorized infantry units as candidates for reconnaissance missions.

This probably seems like pretty basic bitch doctrine for reconnaissance and the argument might be made that they are doing all of this or have already done it and these "probing attacks" are a necessary evolution to more fully exploit the information gleaned from proper reconnaissance operations.

But, in 1933 they didn't also have:
- SIGINT well they did, they were just called "radios"
- ELINT
- MASINT from friendly countries providing satellite imagery (aerial reconnaissance could fill some of this role)
- Drones

Which is what worries me about this. They've had lots of white space to conduct intelligence collection and probing attacks. If they aren't able to close whatever intelligence gaps they might have with these attacks and get to a decisive action very soon, we have a big problem.

As a pessimist I really need to see some thrusting or even falling back in order to encircle Russian units before I can feel comfortable that this is part of a master plan.
 
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It's also possible Ukraines generals are feeling the fear of losing high value items. Like Challenger 2s and Leapords. This isusually l a thing that effects Admirals more then Generals. In naval warfare, ships are irreplaceable. Repairs can take months and New construction can take years. This leads inevitably to not actually fighting the ships because of a fear of breaking them. Ukraine could be in a similar mental trap. Once they commit their new toys some of them will get destroyed and the Vatniks will post crowing exhultation on Telegram. the issue however is unused weapons are more useless then destroyed or damaged weapons. You have to be willing to take losses. It seems to me Ukraine is looking for a place where they can have that decisive battle, like with the Battle of Izium when they absolutely wrecked the Russians with minimal losses. I don't think that is going to be replicated this time.
 
It's also possible Ukraines generals are feeling the fear of losing high value items. Like Challenger 2s and Leapords. This isusually l a thing that effects Admirals more then Generals. In naval warfare, ships are irreplaceable. Repairs can take months and New construction can take years. This leads inevitably to not actually fighting the ships because of a fear of breaking them. Ukraine could be in a similar mental trap. Once they commit their new toys some of them will get destroyed and the Vatniks will post crowing exhultation on Telegram. the issue however is unused weapons are more useless then destroyed or damaged weapons. You have to be willing to take losses. It seems to me Ukraine is looking for a place where they can have that decisive battle, like with the Battle of Izium when they absolutely wrecked the Russians with minimal losses. I don't think that is going to be replicated this time.
So called decisive battle might never come.
Instead of one big breakthrough Ukrainians might conduct their offensive in more grinding way of series of small, secured advances.
 
Ah, fair. When you learn about the Ottoman empire, you learn the distinction between "castration" (just snipping the balls) and "emasculation" (removal of the scrote and the whole or most of the penis) and I guess expecting that sort of careful use of language is too much to expect from modern journos.
Unfortunately, the word "emasculation" these days is almost always used metaphorically. If an article says that Ukrainian POWs were emasculated, a normie might assume they were forced to wear pink bows and play with Barbie dolls.

It will need to be thought about because its a war crime. The units involved will need to have their commanding officers identified. Not so much that they actually end up in the dock, but rather so their names go on a list and they can never leave Russia again because their is an Interpol red notice out for their ass.
Reportedly, Ukraine and international observers have been diligently collecting testimony and physical evidence of war crimes. I assume (hope) the victimized soldiers have given depositions of everything they know, including names, ranks, places.

For it to amount to anything, however, Ukraine needs to survive this war. We've seen what Russia does with evidence of war crimes in territory it controls. The drama theater in Mariupol has been demolished, burying dozens to hundreds of corpses under rubble. We may never have an accounting of who died there.

So called decisive battle might never come.
Instead of one big breakthrough Ukrainians might conduct their offensive in more grinding way of series of small, secured advances.
Russia's combat power is concentrated on a few defensive lines to hold their area of control, so the expectation is that if those can be breached, there will be a wide open field behind them offering little resistance. Russia's resources (and soldiers) are dwindling and they can't be everywhere without being spread thin.

That said, this is only war theory, and wars are notoriously unpredictable. Russia might prove better able to pull back and re-entrench than expected.
 
Russia's combat power is concentrated on a few defensive lines to hold their area of control, so the expectation is that if those can be breached, there will be a wide open field behind them offering little resistance. Russia's resources (and soldiers) are dwindling and they can't be everywhere without being spread thin.

That said, this is only war theory, and wars are notoriously unpredictable. Russia might prove better able to pull back and re-entrench than expected.
I would be very surprised if they didn't have operational reserve for counterattack somewhere around Rostov-on-Don..

https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/19-june-ukrainian-military-liberated-pyatykhatky-village
archive

Ukrainian military liberated Pyatykhatky village in Zaporizhzhia region​

 
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It's also possible Ukraines generals are feeling the fear of losing high value items. Like Challenger 2s and Leapords. This isusually l a thing that effects Admirals more then Generals. In naval warfare, ships are irreplaceable. Repairs can take months and New construction can take years. This leads inevitably to not actually fighting the ships because of a fear of breaking them. Ukraine could be in a similar mental trap. Once they commit their new toys some of them will get destroyed and the Vatniks will post crowing exhultation on Telegram. the issue however is unused weapons are more useless then destroyed or damaged weapons. You have to be willing to take losses. It seems to me Ukraine is looking for a place where they can have that decisive battle, like with the Battle of Izium when they absolutely wrecked the Russians with minimal losses. I don't think that is going to be replicated this time.
It doesn't help that they lost quite a few vehicles a week or so ago in the early stage of the offensive. Also people made a big deal out of it. Losing 17 M2's 4 Leopard 2's 2 AMX-10's and a few Leopard based mine clearing vehicles isn't that great either. But they will take loses. That can't be helped. It's just how things go. But they probably don't want to get totally wrecked.


 
I was also wondering this.

I don't doubt that between them they would have the mechanical know-how to make something like that work, but it seems like you would need some sort of A-Team-level talent to pull that together in a short period of time, unless this kind of attack has been in the planning for awhile.

Just going from the RC receiver, you're looking at 3 - 4 PWM channels.

I'm guessing 1 per side for throttle in the simplest implementation, and another for triggering the detonation (2 if you're smart and want to reduce chances of it detonating in the middle of your camp when you plug it in).

In an old tank like this, what's the minimal servo you'd need to control a throttle? (I genuinely don't know, maybe there's some kind of throttle control linkage that would be most mechanically efficient to manipulate?)

But the less hobby equipment (or maybe equipment cannibalized from large fixed-wing drones) they are able to use, the more complicated the implementation is going to get, translating digital signals to analog, different mechanisms to actuate non-servo electrical motors...

Or just send a very motivated/drunk private out there.
Usually in a situation like that, you'd use cable instead of wireless. You don't want your payload to go off too early or your tank to get jammed. My guess would be there is no gear shifting, just put it in first and have something to pull the track controls.

OTOH its russia, probably a drunk mobilik, as a human is the only computer that can be produced by unskilled labor.



The probing attacks are necessary however. It would be much more catastrophic for Ukraine to launch a massive attack, only for it to stall and grind down due to running into a brick wall. So, like it or not, Ukraine needs these attacks, costly as they are, to find a seam to hit.
I understand the tactical necessity, and it probably keeps Russia off balance trying to scramble troops to shore up the front; if you can keep taxing Russia's logistics by having to move men, they can't move materiel.

I also can also see from the maps and reports they are definitely having an effect on Russia where damn near every tube in on the front seems to be firing off, and that's going to be mean less ammo (and worn barrels, but Russia has never been big on accuracy) if a big push does come. Its taxing on the Russians as well as the Ukrainians.

Which is what worries me about this. They've had lots of white space to conduct intelligence collection and probing attacks. If they aren't able to close whatever intelligence gaps they might have with these attacks and get to a decisive action very soon, we have a big problem.

As a pessimist I really need to see some thrusting or even falling back in order to encircle Russian units before I can feel comfortable that this is part of a master plan.
This is sort of where I am. You are getting hit going in, you're getting hit and leaving guys falling back. Even if pushing back, due to the soviet/russian doctrine of defense in depth, even if the Russians lose their first line, their second line is manned and ready, tertiary lines are on alert and they have a chance to start prepping a new series of defenses.

You'd think that with as much Three-Letter satellite and SIG/HUMINT as they're getting there wouldn't be any need for probing attacks.

Again information to those on the outside is limited - Ukraine is maintaining Opsec, Media is honoring a black out, so what we're seeing is Russian Milbloggers taking advantage of the lack of Russian opsec to push out info. Ukraine is very stingy and sanitizing their releases. All this shapes up to the real time ; even the opening 48 of Kharkiv looked like a bunch of Ukrainian soldiers getting shot down on a desperation push until the fog of war cleared.
So I've got to presume the folks with more information have a plan, and the fact I can't unravel is a good thing because it means Russia can't unravel it.

but its slavs adn the chance this is just dumbfuckery isn't zero.
 
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I've heard some weapons grade copium before but, "Actually we've succeeded in demilitarizing Ukraine because they've used up all their old soviet shit killing thousands of Russians and replaced it with better, newer Western systems" is fucking up there.

Getting serious Zapp Brannigan vs the killbots vibes:
 
Trench combat, 2023-style. Ukrainian operator from the 73rd Maritime SOF gets a hat-trick +1.
Telegram link
The 73rd Special Forces is a military intelligence unit structurally part of the Ukrainian Special Operations Force. Scuba divers-spacecraft specialize in diversion work on water and under water. In addition to special assignments on the water, scouts of the 73rd Center carry out operations on land. The 73rd Naval Center of Special Operations was based on the Soviet-era 17th Naval Special Purpose Brigade. Set up as a training unit, it has become known for its small-boat raids and reconnaissance missions conducted behind Russian lines along the Dnipro River.

The unit is structured on roughly the same lines as a US Navy SEAL Team and is headquartered in the Mykolaiv Oblast, just west of Kherson Oblast. It comprises four sections, one dedicated to underwater demolitions, one to clearance divers, one to reconnaissance, and one to logistical support. The unit likely has a few dozen special operators.
 
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Trench combat, 2023-style. Ukrainian operator from the 73rd Maritime SOF gets a hat-trick +1.
The fact we went from SOF barely acknowledging the existence of units let alone details of their missions to guys writing books about their service as soon as they get out, to just straight up GoPRO footage from a conflict that's still going on will never not be fucking wild to me.

Also pour one out for the niggas at Oryx who are packing it in. Hopefully some other turboautists take up the mantle properly.
oryx.JPG
 
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