Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

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Special operators have a sense of humor that is completely alien to normies. Its a morbid and deeply uncomfortable rendition of death and violence that usually involves people dying horribly in "funny ways", including people who are friends of the operator in question. Especially for guys who have been in the shit for extended periods of time, and this war has been in the shit for longer then a year.
>last thing you see
Case in point, though I think those Mobiks never got the chance to see anything. I'm honestly mad on their behalf. One of the FIRST things that is rammed into every recruit is if you are in a combat zone situation where the enemy could be on you at any moment, you have your battle buddy. Basically the member of the squad who is responsible for you and you for him, because the Sergeants eyes, while always everywhere are not actually everywhere and the squad needs to look out for itself on occasion. There is no way in the fresh hell any American unit in a trench would have random soldiers running around corners alone at a time when they clearly know they are under attack.

That right there say's alot more then the fact those troops also had no idea how to engage in rifle combat at point blank range, or even how to properly leverage their own fucking defensive fortification, by checking corners, before going around them. Instead they let their own fortification be used against them. The absolute state of that Russian unit. Even if the Ukies were Operators, it should never have gone down that way. Raw Privates fresh out of basic with a First year in grade Sergeant would have performed better then those Russian troops. They were clearly not trained beyond the bare minimums. If that! They should not have been there and they got slaughtered like animals.
 
This is pretty funny, because fuck journalists; Prigozhin bullshits a Politico reporter.
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Does this dude ever stop whining about the equipment and weapons he doesn't have?

They were clearly not trained beyond the bare minimums. If that! They should not have been there and they got slaughtered like animals.

Yeah. Seeing the video makes me mad, but not at the Ukes and not at the Russky grunts. Just at the whole fucking situation. Fucking waste of life. Fucking waste of a future. I hope when the oligarchs finally come to their senses, they hang Putin by his nuts and he has plenty of time to think of how he's fucked around with his countrymens' lives.
 
They were clearly not trained beyond the bare minimums. If that! They should not have been there and they got slaughtered like animals.
Shit, I think even recreation milsim experience and sport shooting would prepare someone for combat better than those guys were. Clearly they were big into EVE Online.
 
Shit, I think even recreation milsim experience and sport shooting would prepare someone for combat better than those guys were. Clearly they were big into EVE Online.
Not really. Seeing that shootout reminded me of this scene from a very good war movie, Glory.

You can have all the natural talents and equipment in the world. But combat is not a game. It can rob you of all that immediately once your animal brain takes over. After that its just pure instinct, instincts those Mobiks never were given.
 
The Soviets were very scientific in their approach to warfare
Seriously? from when I'm looking is like they literally half-assed the beginning actually believing the ukies would receive them as liberators

Like I cant think of a bigger fuckup than the ruskies did at the beginning of this war, did they even have an actual plan or were doing war improv?
The entire dynamic of this war buck broke their brains.
Yes its mostly "ukraine bad cuz globalism!" but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that any of these countries supporting ukraine is doing it for the sake of freedom and not because the attacker is the ruskies. Like if say turkey (to name a nearby country, forget that its part of nato) invaded ukraine would they care? and if the ruskies would intervene not because of ukrainian freedom but because they dont want fucking turks in their border would people support ukraine or call it the whore of russia for accepting the help its getting?
 
Seriously? from when I'm looking is like they literally half-assed the beginning actually believing the ukies would receive them as liberators
I believe @mindlessobserver is distinguishing the Soviet Union from the Russian Federation, which, despite being a successor state, is structurally very different. It was the Soviets that developed systematic war plans and a massive arsenal, while Russia is consuming (and burning through) that stockpile.
 
I believe @mindlessobserver is distinguishing the Soviet Union from the Russian Federation, which, despite being a successor state, is structurally very different. It was the Soviets that developed systematic war plans and a massive arsenal, while Russia is consuming (and burning through) that stockpile.
Yes, but to add onto this the Soviet Military was very much a product of its creation, which was Germanies Operation Barbarossa. In that Campaign they had zero strategic reserve in ammunition and equipment so when the Germans steamrolled their front line positions there was nothing left. It led to that scene from the Stalingrad movie where one man was handed a rifle and another man told to follow that guy and when he died to pick up the rifle, because there was not enough rifles for both men.

The supply situation of the red army in the early stages of the war resulted in a level of extreme paranoia over supply and stockpiles. Something the US never really went through. The US Does stockpile weaponry, make no mistake, but not to the degree the Soviets did. US Supply assumption assumes 6 months of warfare to give time for industry to spool up and take over. While Soviet supply doctrine assumed industry may never be able to pick up the slack at all. As the cold war progressed, the Soviets discovered building thousands of useless and unfired artillery shells was a good way to pump up GDP numbers and meet 5 year plan quotas. It is why the Russian Army is able to fire 40 year old soviet shells in the war today. They are tapping into that huge stockpile. The issue though is they are using a stockpile designed to fight NATO by a dead empire. Against Ukraine. This is irreplaceable expenditure. Eventually it will be gone.

Also, since we are on the subject, 10/10, would recommend all the Euros in this thread check out the Movie "Glory". Its a visceral encapsulation of the US Civil War, that does not hold any punches in its violent depictions of 19'th century combat. Its probably not something that routinely appeared in your recommendation list. Its also a meditation on the complicated nature of race relations in America, and the formation of the modern American state.

This is the opening scene, entitled "Battle of Antietam".

 
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Had an interesting discussion with a zigger in general chat earlier. Normally I wouldn't post such trivial things here, but this person is actually from Russia and I found it really intriguing probing someone directly under the influence of Russian state propaganda.

Out of respect, and just in case FSB glowies are keeping tabs on Ruskie posters, I have censored their handle:

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Here the zigger is trying to explain to me why Russia had to invade Ukraine to protect Donbabwe from being shelled by the Ukrainian Army (let's just ignore the fact that Russia started that conflict by sending guns and troops and instigators like Igor Girkin etc).

I present the case of Chechnya, a republic within Russia that is not ethnically Russian, trying to break away and form their own state. Which was then crushed by absolutely ruthless Russian shelling. I ask if intervention was necessary to protect them from Russian shelling, as they claim was necessary for Donbas rebels.

As you can see the zigger has to literally warp reality in their mind in order to make sense of how Russia is allowed to interfere militarily in the affairs of Ukraine, but for anyone to intervene in Chechnya, that's wrong because it's interfering in Russia's internal affairs...

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Here the zigger is claiming they want peace and for the war and suffering to end. I ask if Russia leaving Ukraine is a reasonable means of achieving that. They respond with... well, you can see the absurd mental gymnastics on display there, lol. You're not pro-peace if you're not in favor of immediately rolling over to an invading power and giving into all their demands.

I wonder if our zigger friend would demand that Putin surrender immediately and unconditionally in the event of a US invasion of Russia? To spare all the death and destruction of course. ;)

They also request that we 'let' Ukraine surrender. Apparently Zelensky and the entire Ukrainian army and population are just desperate to get on their knees and sign the surrender, but mean old Uncle Joe is forcing them to keep fighting against their will. Need I remind you guys from the start of the war: "I need ammunition, not a ride." We literally offered Zelensky a flight out and he refused it.

I know it's petty to pick fights and post them in thread, I don't want to bring heat on this user. But I honestly found it really interesting (if a little heated) talking to a Russian and seeing how they apply the propaganda to their own perception of the war. Literally resorting to double-think in real time to justify one thing when confronted with the same thing from the other side.

Furthermore I did get the impression that this person DOES sincerely want peace... they are basically under a spell where the means to achieving peace is for Russia to bring war.
 
And I have to deal with these people on a daily basis. It's like a fucking mind virus, they're living in their own reality. It's simply impossible to break through their programming.
Wherever you go in Russian space, propaganda is everywhere, it's a constant avalanche of bullshit, has been for years but ramped up to absurd levels since the war began. Normally I'd expect someone frequenting KF to be able to filter information and have some resistance to it at least, but I've already been proven wrong on that one before.

It's straight up Orwellian. It's scary to live among people brainwashed to the point that they're willing to justify anything the state does, even to its own citizens, and "people" capable of violence like was discussed on the last couple pages, which I'm doing my damnedest to forget just so I could get through the day.
The war might end eventually, but these people aren't going anywhere, should never forget that for my own sake.
 
Raw Privates fresh out of basic with a First year in grade Sergeant would have performed better then those Russian troops.
Mostly because in the west, at least where I was, everyone always has a rifle. The first thing you learn is never to have your eyes off your weapon, or you get bootfucked for it. It's unimaginable to me that the Russians keep their troops unarmed and their rifles locked up in "pyramids". IN AN ACTUAL FUCKING WAR. Insane. I can't believe I assumed, prior to 2022, that the Russian military was just like ours but manlier. Probably the most embarrassing L of my life.
 
Shit, I think even recreation milsim experience and sport shooting would prepare someone for combat better than those guys were. Clearly they were big into EVE Online.
The russian planning and execution in this conflict has been so terrible they'd literally be better off picking a high-grade Starcraft player and making him or her dictator for the duration.
 
They respond with... well, you can see the absurd mental gymnastics on display there, lol. You're not pro-peace if you're not in favor of immediately rolling over to an invading power and giving into all their demands.
I of course didn't see the whole conversation, but this comment seemed like he (or she) was just making a lazy point. You say it's "reasonable" for Russia to give up their invasion, and he responds that it's also "reasonable" for Ukraine to surrender immediately. You say tell his government to withdraw, he says tell your government to let Ukraine surrender. He's basically mirroring you and not seriously engaging with the issues. This isn't surprising since it's Kiwi Farms chat. This person might express more thought in a serious setting.

Just my two cents. I don't read as much into these comments as you did.
 
I of course didn't see the whole conversation, but this comment seemed like he (or she) was just making a lazy point. You say it's "reasonable" for Russia to give up their invasion, and he responds that it's also "reasonable" for Ukraine to surrender immediately. You say tell his government to withdraw, he says tell your government to let Ukraine surrender. He's basically mirroring you and not seriously engaging with the issues. This isn't surprising since it's Kiwi Farms chat. This person might express more thought in a serious setting.

Just my two cents. I don't read as much into these comments as you did.
There were parts of the conversation where I did get that feeling, or at least a reluctance to engage with certain parallels I drew. But within the wider context of this full (quite lengthy) discussion, that part of it was absolutely sincere. They made it quite clear they felt the invasion was justified and that the only path to peace is for Ukraine to capitulate to all of Putin's demands.

I didn't feel right about posting more snippets because that person said some things that, as far as I know, could be illegal under Russian law. I don't know what the likelihood of them facing consequences would be since I don't live over there but I don't want to be an asshole and get them in trouble. It was things of that nature that gave me the impression they are genuine.

Take what you will from it; the mirroring bit was part joking (other people mirrored my comment as well, were some funny ones lol), but the sentiment was real.
 
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I know it's petty to pick fights and post them in thread, I don't want to bring heat on this user. But I honestly found it really interesting (if a little heated) talking to a Russian and seeing how they apply the propaganda to their own perception of the war. Literally resorting to double-think in real time to justify one thing when confronted with the same thing from the other side.

Furthermore I did get the impression that this person DOES sincerely want peace... they are basically under a spell where the means to achieving peace is for Russia to bring war.
Are they mental? After everything that has happened, all the death and destruction, the expect Ukraine to just...stop? Millions of Ukrainians have spent the last year running into bunkers due to air raid sirens. Their husbands and sons have been killed, and or mutilated for the past year. Entire towns have been leveled by artillery, and they think Ukraine should just...stop fighting? Because Russia is so brutal? Imagine if your hometown got razed by a screaming mongoloid hoard of drunk conscripts, your mother and sisters are forced to leave their home to become refugees like god damn Moroccan negros. I think "surrender" would be the absolutely last thing on your mind.

Are these people completely oblivious to just what Russia has done in this war? Moscow has made a generational enemy that will persist for centuries! Children born a hundred years from now will grow up with stories about what Moscow did to their homeland. Its going to be Finland on fucking steroids. The closest Analogy will be the Serbs and the god damn Albanians. A thousand years from now the international community may have to intervene to stop Kievans and Muscovites from shanking each other over Bakhmut because centuries ago in 2022 the two sides murdered each other wholesale over the town.

That is where this war is now, and Russia seems completely oblivious too this new reality.
 
Are they mental? After everything that has happened, all the death and destruction, the expect Ukraine to just...stop? Millions of Ukrainians have spent the last year running into bunkers due to air raid sirens. Their husbands and sons have been killed, and or mutilated for the past year. Entire towns have been leveled by artillery, and they think Ukraine should just...stop fighting? Because Russia is so brutal? Imagine if your hometown got razed by a screaming mongoloid hoard of drunk conscripts, your mother and sisters are forced to leave their home to become refugees like god damn Moroccan negros. I think "surrender" would be the absolutely last thing on your mind.
Its funny they don't realize that this is Ukraine's very own Great Patriotic War. The stakes are just as high for Ukraine now as they were for the Russians in 1940, and the behavior of the invaders is almost as bad.
 
To be fair, you aren't pants shittingly terrified in an air soft game. But then, that's what training is for. So you do the right things on automatic instead of bumbling around like a scared turkey.
To be even more fair. Why the fuck should anyone go out there and and die in a ditch just so Joe Biden can launder some more money into his own pocket?
It is fucking retarded to go there and be afraid, just fucking desert and go somewhere else and let Biden send his own kid if this war is so fucking important to win.
 
That trench fighting video was brutal. Those poorly trained mobiks didn't stand a chance. The lack of training really was on display.

Some casual observations. The Russian troops were not moving in pairs even though they clearly knew the enemy was in their position. They just blundered into the Ukies piece meal. No effort to clear corners, just gormlessly walking past intersections. And the piece de LA resistance, staring down gunsights like you are on the range, in a close quarters scenario where you need to do reflex fire instead. Bet big money those poor saps were never even taught reflex fire marksmanship.

The Ukrainians sure were though.
I find it odd that they weren't using shotguns or anything like that. I think that's what the US used in trenches in WW1. You don't really have to aim a shotgun much. also pistols would be good in that situation I believe. But that was pretty bad. But the Russian conscripts only get a few days or so of training. These are not professional soldiers or trained killers. They are regular jack offs with a rifle taken out of storage. I don't even think they have reflex sites on their rifles. I believe the Ukrainians were using reflex sites which may have helped them with that kind of shooting.
Ka-52 tries to dump external stores, after receiving damage to it's empennage; but one AAM missile pod hangs up. The fact that they've got some altitude and things kinda just splash into the wheat field suggests those weapons pods were empty & they've left the front. They vibrate bad enough undamaged, I wouldn't be surprised if it shook itself apart midflight after the video ends.
View attachment 5170261

And now for something completely different....
It looks like it got it's ass blown off. The end the tail boom looks damaged.
Special operators have a sense of humor that is completely alien to normies. Its a morbid and deeply uncomfortable rendition of death and violence that usually involves people dying horribly in "funny ways", including people who are friends of the operator in question. Especially for guys who have been in the shit for extended periods of time, and this war has been in the shit for longer then a year.

Case in point, though I think those Mobiks never got the chance to see anything. I'm honestly mad on their behalf. One of the FIRST things that is rammed into every recruit is if you are in a combat zone situation where the enemy could be on you at any moment, you have your battle buddy. Basically the member of the squad who is responsible for you and you for him, because the Sergeants eyes, while always everywhere are not actually everywhere and the squad needs to look out for itself on occasion. There is no way in the fresh hell any American unit in a trench would have random soldiers running around corners alone at a time when they clearly know they are under attack.

That right there say's alot more then the fact those troops also had no idea how to engage in rifle combat at point blank range, or even how to properly leverage their own fucking defensive fortification, by checking corners, before going around them. Instead they let their own fortification be used against them. The absolute state of that Russian unit. Even if the Ukies were Operators, it should never have gone down that way. Raw Privates fresh out of basic with a First year in grade Sergeant would have performed better then those Russian troops. They were clearly not trained beyond the bare minimums. If that! They should not have been there and they got slaughtered like animals.
They are Russian conscripts. Russians are just throwing bodies into meat grinder hoping they can wear the Ukrainians down that way. Their job is to hold a rifle and shoot back or get shot. Hopefully some of the other conscripts do better. It's a numbers thing. Some of them are going to get killed but some won't.


@East_Clintwood
Filling a tank up with explosives and sending it towards the enemy hoping to blow them up is clearly a tactic of the winning side in a war. It's not act of desperation or anything.
 
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