Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[teriyakiburns]

Biden's handlers have given the all-clear for American cluster munitions to be released to Ukraine after they put in a request over the past few months

Oh didn't you hear? That stuff is only being sent over because the US ran out of everything else. A senile idiot said it, so it must be true.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Not just weapons as Trump also started having Uncle Sam trained AFU, and implemented the logistical support which the AFU vitally needed. Hell the democrats were blocking him on providing more support to Ukraine and tighting the vice around Russia's nuts. As the USA have been propping up and keeping USSR/Russia on life support just so it wouldn't finally collapse into warlord states and lose physical control of the nukes for 40 years.

 

[FunPosting101]

Not just weapons as Trump also started having Uncle Sam trained AFU, and implemented the logistical support which the AFU vitally needed. Hell the democrats were blocking him on providing more support to Ukraine and tighting the vice around Russia's nuts. As the USA have been propping up and keeping USSR/Russia on life support just so it wouldn't finally collapse into warlord states and lose physical control of the nukes for 40 years.

@Exterminatus

I'm not entirely sure that Trump won't try and bring this conflict to a negotiated end, myself. He probably wants some easy major accomplishment in the first two years of his term if/when he gets in again, and he may well fear that Russia is being pushed to the brink of breaking out the nukes. I don't share that fear, but then again, I didn't grow up during the cold war.

 

[Vince McMahon]

What is it like being a western agent in a country that does not exist?

Feels awesome. Having to make my life to start from scratch not once but twice is sure is amazing, especially when bored housewives, alcoholics, edge cases and office rats are like "you have to go back, stop demanding we finance your war".

I'm in a good place and I'm not looking for asspats a-la "woe is me" it just is genuinely funny how tone deaf and projective ziggers and zigger-adjacent westoids are.

 

[Ghostse]

I would make the small contention that being attached to the west doesn't mean they have to immediately suck girl cock and have trans story time for their toddlers. Poland for instance is attached to the west but very much strives to maintain their cultural identity and Christian faith. Ukraine is still pretty strongly religious and arguably has grown a much stronger desire to maintain their culture in the face of Russia's efforts to annihilate it, hopefully they can find themselves in a similar state to the Poles and buck off most of the globohomo fuckery.

You aren't wrong, but the door is hard to close once open. A year ago I'd have agreed with you: Ukraine hadn't really done anything other than pay lipservice to globohomo - "Yes we will investigate legal avenues to criminalize beating faggots" - but now they are having to actually start allowing Globohomo or risk losing their lend/lease that they need to keep from getting ground-down by a Russia that doesn't understand 'sunk cost fallacy'.
Now yes, even if in NATO, even if in the EU, there is nothing that stops Ukraine when all this is over from turning around, nullifying/repealing any appeasement, and saying "LOL SIKE! Thanks for the ammo, Westqueers!" and reving their motorcycles Leopard IIs as they drive off - but that historically doesn't happen.

@Exterminatus

I'm not entirely sure that Trump won't try and bring this conflict to a negotiated end, myself. He probably wants some easy major accomplishment in the first two years of his term if/when he gets in again, and he may well fear that Russia is being pushed to the brink of breaking out the nukes. I don't share that fear, but then again, I didn't grow up during the cold war.

Trump doesn't care about gains too much, he's not Obama massaging his prostate with a woefully unearned peace prize, and if he wins doesn't need to think about reelection so I don't think he's going to flashy PR. Even for all his bluster about "ending the Korean war" the most he did was get Fat Kim to stop tard-tantrumming for a while.
The only reason I'd see Trump intervening to force a deal is to piss in the State Department's cheerios for all the shit they did during his first term. He WOULD be that petty.

If anything, I would see Trump escalating the gear we give Ukraine and after giving them the means, giving them them go head to blackout Moscow in the middle of January and see how the Russians like it.

Putin was a good, quiet boy when Trump was in Office because he told Putin "Bomb Kiev, we bomb Moscow"; Putin didn't want to find out if Trump meant it, so he didn't fuck around.

 

[FunPosting101]

@Ghostse
"If anything, I would see Trump escalating the gear we give Ukraine and after giving them the means, giving them them go head to blackout Moscow in the middle of January and see how the Russians like it."

The problem with that is: what happens if Putin decides that this is tantamount to the USA; and thus NATO as well, declaring war upon the Russian Federation? The conventional war would be an absolute humiliation of the sorry excuse for a military that Russia has, but their nuclear arsenal is likely to be in much better shape; as you yourself have stated in this thread.

I have nothing wrong with Ukraine being free of the zigger hordes, but I don't want to be incinerated, glowing in the dark, starving to death, or dying of cholera for their sake in the process.

Also what the fuck is wrong with the Quote and Reply options? Neither of them work now, whereas before you only had reply not being usable once or twice in a thread every so often, so the problem has gotten worse for fuck's sake.

 

[Snekposter]

My source on that was WWII combat vets being interviewed (I believe it was a Audrey Murphy doc but not certain) and I believe it was an M-18 gunner complaining about being sent into the shit and the other TDs in his unit they lost because some Lt or Captain figured they treads and a gun, so it must be able to do whatever a tank a can do.

So maybe it was just that guy's experience, but it seemed like not.

Its a mix of both, really, combined with the fact that US doctrine was heavy on using artillery vehicles as infantry support. For example, the Priest couldn't elevate its howitzer fully because the vehicle had been specifically designed to have a low profile, which is something you'd only do if you were intending to take it into the thick of it. Tanks not so much because their doctrine was derived from cavalry who historically acted independently of the main body as a self-contained force, both in the field and on the march. Which of course meant the big guns wound up being even more heavily tied to the demands of the infantry.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Also what the fuck is wrong with the Quote and Reply options? Neither of them work now, whereas before you only had reply not being usable once or twice in a thread every so often, so the problem has gotten worse for fuck's sake.

Null has mentioned this countless times: the quote and reply buttons are disabled for long posts. Instead, you should highlight the part of the post you want to reply to and then click on the little reply button that pops up next to it.

 

[East_Clintwood]

Thing is Ukraine wants to use the DPICM munitions as is. One, they need any non-NBC munitions can they get for tube and rocket artillery. Two, DPICM is the wrong shape to be used as drone dropped bombets without major rework.

SInce they're getting DPICM, you're right they'll likely use them as is. However the Rockeyes they allegedly specifically requested to scavenge for drone munitions don't use DPICM, they use Mk118 bomblets which are very much the right shape to be dropped with minimal, if any, reworking:

 

[WhiteNight]

I'm less optimistic about Trump and Ukraine. While Biden is catastrophic on domestic policies, he's handling Ukraine decently well. Trump on the other hand is a wild card, and his statements have been all over the map. His promise to end the conflict in 24 hours is pure fantasy, and probably involves him telling Ukraine to cede territory or get cut off (which would be a bad outcome, and Ukraine will of course say no).

More dismaying is that Trump has people in his orbit who are basically pro-Russia. For instance, he has announced he's bringing Flynn back on:

I posted a clip way back in the old thread, which I can't seem to quote, in which Flynn not only repeats conspiratard zigger nonsense about secret biolabs but says Russia is winning hard and Ukraine should be cut off. Flynn is a hero to much of the MAGA crowd after he was prosecuted for made-up crimes to get rid of him, but he really is too cozy with Russia.

Many other key influential members of his base have been taking similar stances (MTG, Tucker, Bannon, Gaetz, etc.). Some may wind up in a hypothetical Trump administration. Trump is personally complimentary to Zelenskyy and won't want the ego bruise of losing to Russia, but with stooges and grifters whispering in his ear, he may push an unfavorable settlement.

https://electionbettingodds.com/ has Trump at 27% to win the election, so this is a real possibility. At least one can hope the war will be over by 2025.

 

[AgendaPoster]

I'm less optimistic about Trump and Ukraine. While Biden is catastrophic on domestic policies, he's handling Ukraine decently well. Trump on the other hand is a wild card, and his statements have been all over the map. His promise to end the conflict in 24 hours is pure fantasy, and probably involves him telling Ukraine to cede territory or get cut off (which would be a bad outcome, and Ukraine will of course say no).

There's gonna be some really fucked up choices next year for you American gents, I can't say I envy you, then again, I don't even vote in my shithole country cause I despise everyone in politics.

PS: if you truly want US to support Ukraine, it has to have proper social programs at home so American citizens do not feel forgotten and neglected, and some social stability. That should be the easiest conclusion to reach.
Of course, neither party is serious when it comes to helping working class Americans.

 

[Iox]

How do y'all feel about RFK?

I can see any candidate from Newsom to even Trump <- (with some convincing) -> and DeSantis give support for Ukraine as this war is extremely beneficial to us and these candidates ultimately do want the best for the United States, whether it be for nationalism or for power, but I can't see RFK doing that, my gut tells me that he just wants the US to die. I think I'm going a little bonkers but I think he's the actual antichrist.

I think he has a pretty good chance of winning if the Democrats don't mettle which kinda scares me.

I would rather have literally anyone but the antichrist (or Bernie).

PS: if you truly want US to support Ukraine, it has to have proper social programs at home so American citizens do not feel forgotten and neglected, and some social stability. That should be the easiest conclusion to reach.
Of course, neither party is serious when it comes to helping working class Americans.

The people that would bitch, whine, and cry about social programs is the left, but regardless, the left still supports Ukraine because of big bad Putler. The right doesn't give a shit about social programs and want even less of them because it supports lazy niggers; the right doesn't support Ukraine because the left supports them, simple as (and also because they're fucking retards that don't understand how much this benefits our military).

If the left supported Russia I will guarantee you that the right would be raving about the based Azov battalion and Tucker Carlson would be bashing Biden for having a weak response to Russia and letting the poor small country of Ukraine hang out to dry.

It's just polarization imo.

Social stability won't happen as long as the left exists the way it does today; the left denies reality, and you cannot work with people who deny shit like niggers should be locked up for crime, that faggots are pedophiles and shouldn't be near children, or that trannies are mentally ill men living out a fetish.

I believe that this shit we're living in today is the result of a Cold War poison by the USSR.

See this interview by KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov, that explains this poison pretty well.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Russia is so based, shitskins can just scalp natives for having the wrong haircut: https://life.ru/p/1592549

 

[Corette]

https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/10-july-former-commander-of-improved-kiloclass-submarine
https://archive.is/u5Rf7

Former commander of Improved Kilo-class submarine Krasnodar, deputy head of Krasnodar mobilisation office Stanislav Rzhytsky was shot dead in Krasnodar​

 

[East_Clintwood]

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to support Sweden's bid to join Nato, the military alliance's chief Jens Stoltenberg has said.
At a briefing, he said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan would forward Sweden's bid to the Turkish parliament and "ensure ratification".
Earlier, he had appeared to suggest Turkey would back Sweden if the EU re-opened membership talks with Ankara.
Turkey has criticised Sweden for hosting Kurdish militants.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66160319

>Start war to stop NATO getting another border on your country
>Give them two more countries on your border instead

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

PS: if you truly want US to support Ukraine, it has to have proper social programs at home so American citizens do not feel forgotten and neglected, and some social stability. That should be the easiest conclusion to reach.

Fuck off, Europoid

Of course, neither party is serious when it comes to helping working class Americans.

Okay, see the thing you bughive freaking Europoids fail to understand is that actual working-class Americans don't need "help" they need to be left the fuck alone, less taxes and less currency devaluation fuckery.

Its dumb because we could literally cut all useless social entitlement programs across the board, and still have room to BOTH cut taxes and give Ukraine the firepower it needs.

 

[Foltest]

the turkroach is letting Sweden into NATO.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to support Sweden's bid to join Nato, the military alliance's chief Jens Stoltenberg has said.
At a briefing, he said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan would forward Sweden's bid to the Turkish parliament and "ensure ratification".
Earlier, he had appeared to suggest Turkey would only back Sweden if the EU re-opened membership talks with Ankara.
Turkey has also accused Sweden of hosting Kurdish militants.
As one of Nato's 31 members, Turkey has a veto over any new country joining the group.
Mr Stoltenberg was speaking in Vilnius late on Monday, after hosting talks between Mr Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson ahead of a Nato summit in the Lithuanian capital.

Now it is only the fuck Orban left.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66160319

https://archive.ph/412Oj

 

[AgendaPoster]

Fuck off, Europoid

Yes I noticed from the dumb reaction that you don't agree that the US working class should be lifted and protected by the government from predatory employers and corporations so lolberts can reee about freedom.
And then you're wondering why is the US so polarized and so many unhappy folks are willing to put in RJK Jr or anyone that threatens to tear the house down, cause they see foreigners getting billions while they have to pay with their house if they get cancer or something.

turkroach

I really, really don't want these nerds into the EU after they obviously hate us to the point of trying all those migrant bullying tactics. Highly suspicious of what happened behind closed doors.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

PS: if you truly want US to support Ukraine, it has to have proper social programs at home so American citizens do not feel forgotten and neglected, and some social stability. That should be the easiest conclusion to reach.
Of course, neither party is serious when it comes to helping working class Americans.

the US working class should be lifted and protected by the government from predatory employers and corporations so lolberts can reee about freedom.
And then you're wondering why is the US so polarized and so many unhappy folks are willing to put in RJK Jr or anyone that threatens to tear the house down, cause they see foreigners getting billions while they have to pay with their house if they get cancer or something.

You make some good points but the easiest thing for the Biden Administration to do to justify the billions for Ukraine is that the US is

1. Saving on storage costs of all those thousands of unused Bradleys and Abrams tanks sitting in the California desert.
2. Creating industrial sector jobs behind this surge in spending.

Fluffy interventionist talk of helping Ukraine only fuels the Tuckers and their Boomer followers in their Facebook aunt whining that the US is wasting money that could go towards muh social programs.

Highly suspicious of what happened behind closed doors.

Probably more extraditions of PKK-affiliated "refugees" back to Türkiye.

 

[draggs]

Yes I noticed from the dumb reaction that you don't agree that the US working class should be lifted and protected by the government from predatory employers and corporations so lolberts can reee about freedom.
And then you're wondering why is the US so polarized and so many unhappy folks are willing to put in RJK Jr or anyone that threatens to tear the house down, cause they see foreigners getting billions while they have to pay with their house if they get cancer or something.

I really, really don't want these nerds into the EU after they obviously hate us to the point of trying all those migrant bullying tactics. Highly suspicious of what happened behind closed doors.

OK commie