Off-Topic What is YOUR fundamental issue with troons outside of their batshittery.

[TruffleSpark]

I may be late with this observation, do just mark me as such if I am, but the establishment props them up because they are destabilising agents. I know this sounds all Alex Jones-ey, but if you're an elite and you want to maintain your perversions and lusts for power and control unknown and non discussed in a world where information has (had) become much more democratised, then you need useful idiots to destabilise society and divert attention away from you and onto the degeneracy of others. The sudden explosion of troons and pooners serve those ends.

They create conflict in every community they end up in. That seems useful as a way of stopping these communities from cohering and standing up for themselves. But also it's going to lower their productivity and as such their usefulness to the powers that be. I do have to wonder if eventually the troons will go too far and they will have to be slapped down because they have made the communities they inhabit too dysfunctional.

 

[teriyakiburns]

They're a male (for example), but there's something fucking up in their brain that makes them feel like a woman. I don't have a problem with that part, that's not hard for me to accept as a possible reality, it's all chemicals and if you've got some of the wrong chemicals firing off then you very well may feel female when you're male.

This is the bit I do have the problem with, though. The idea that they "feel like a woman". They don't know what it means to feel like a woman, because they've never experienced life as anything other than a man, with male hormones and male physical desires. Their description of "feeling female" inevitably skews towards superficial aspects like clothing and toys, or circular metaphysical nonsense that boils down to "I feel like it because that's what I am and that's what I am because I feel like it".

When they talk about a "female brain", they're creating an arbitrary boundary between the brain and the rest of the body. They imagine their brain exists in splendid isolation from the body; a self-contained module of thought that pilots a meat robot, over which it has total dominance, and from which it only receives consciously allowed information. It's a nonsense. The brain and body are intertwined and interdependent at every level. You could no more have a "female brain" in a male body than you could have a "male ovary" in a female body.

Same goes for tifs.

 

[TruffleSpark]

This is the bit I do have the problem with, though. The idea that they "feel like a woman". They don't know what it means to feel like a woman, because they've never experienced life as anything other than a man, with male hormones and male physical desires. Their description of "feeling female" inevitably skews towards superficial aspects like clothing and toys, or circular metaphysical nonsense that boils down to "I feel like it because that's what I am and that's what I am because I feel like it".

The first time I encountered the idea of feeling like you were in the wrong body it confused me. I don't think I feel like a man, I just am one. It made me think, maybe I just don't feel like I have the right body because I am so used to that feeling that I don't consciously notice it. What if I woke up in a different body? Maybe not even a female body but just a different size or shape or color, would I feel different? I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't, it would take some time to get used to piloting a new body and being treated differently for looking different. But I'd still just be me, and instead of feeling bad about no longer being in the correct body I'd just try to get over it and get on with my life.

 

[Lady Bizness]

And just remember everyone, there is no getting transplanted into another body. You are your body.

 

[FinnSven]

When they talk about a "female brain", they're creating an arbitrary boundary between the brain and the rest of the body. They imagine their brain exists in splendid isolation from the body; a self-contained module of thought that pilots a meat robot, over which it has total dominance, and from which it only receives consciously allowed information. It's a nonsense. The brain and body are intertwined and interdependent at every level. You could no more have a "female brain" in a male body than you could have a "male ovary" in a female body.

It’s also been demonstrated with further study that brain structure in the way they mean is influenced by behavioral factors and sexual attraction.

However the only “true” elements of a female brain compared to a male one is the parts associated with regulating and processing messages from hormones and internal processes like ovulation and pregnancy.

Men don’t have these no matter how much estrogen they take.

The thing that really doesn’t make sense is that up until this batshittery became mainstream, there was a lot of tolerance of people liking stuff they were not supposed to by gender.

Those “gender reveal” parties which used to be a thing, I recall first hearing more widespread troonery around the time these parties started happening.

It seems that making an issue out of things in this way sent things backwards, not forwards.

 

[GettrGriftr]

I do have to wonder if eventually the troons will go too far and they will have to be slapped down because they have made the communities they inhabit too dysfunctional

Oh, sure. I know people mock the phrase "useful idiots" (because it's so overused now as to be cliché), but so-called "revolutionaries" or destabilising agents really are useful to the power structure looking to maintain their power by focusing attention away from the power structure, and they really  are idiots because they're too stupid to realise that they're not going to be adopted into the system they're destabilising (because the system hates revolutionaries as revolutionaries threaten the status quo), but rather will be discarded (either violently or through malign neglect) once their usefulness to the system is complete.

 

[Jacques1194]

The first time I encountered the idea of feeling like you were in the wrong body it confused me. I don't think I feel like a man, I just am one. It made me think, maybe I just don't feel like I have the right body because I am so used to that feeling that I don't consciously notice it. What if I woke up in a different body? Maybe not even a female body but just a different size or shape or color, would I feel different? I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't, it would take some time to get used to piloting a new body and being treated differently for looking different. But I'd still just be me, and instead of feeling bad about no longer being in the correct body I'd just try to get over it and get on with my life.

What really annoys me is that TIPs will say that you're agender or non binary because you claim to of never felt like a man even though you never denied it.Honestly, non man/woman gender identities should tell people that gender in itself is bullshit.Whenever i ask an NB what does it mean to feel like you're neither sex, they basically say they never denied being a biological female.They only say that non binary was their gender identity because they dont see themselves as women.So basically, they just didnt follow stereotypes, and thought they werent real women.This is what annoys me about the trans movement.They in one breath state it has nothing to do with stereotypes and it being a neurological condition, but then turn around and claim its a social construct of how society sees things.

 

[TruffleSpark]

What really annoys me is that TIPs will say that you're agender or non binary because you claim to of never felt like a man even though you never denied it.Honestly, non man/woman gender identities should tell people that gender in itself is bullshit.

From what I understand gender as it was originally defined was a societal view of a person. So it's not what you feel like, it's what other people believe you to be. If people see a man when they look at you then you are a man, and if they see a woman you are a woman. This is a big reason why preferred pronouns are bullshit, if you have to tell me your gender in order for me to know what it is then you have failed to be perceived as that gender and as such are not that gender.

They in one breath state it has nothing to do with stereotypes and it being a neurological condition, but then turn around and claim its a social construct of how society sees things.

This is a relic of the tuucute/truscum war from tumblr. The tuucutes, the people who believed being trans was a form of self expression, and who said you just are whatever gender you say you are, won that war. But they picked up some truscum talking points that they knew would appeal to normies, even if they didn't believe them themselves. So on the one hand there is the tuucute position that being trans isn't an illness, but also they say it requires medical intervention. So slogans like "gender affirming care is life saving care" are bandied about. To me something that requires urgent healthcare lest it kill you sounds like an illness. And indeed that's a relic of how the truscums viewed being trans as a chronic illness that required long term care. Their view of being trans was that it was a debilitating condition that couldn't be "cured", but could be treated through transition.

The modern trans movement wants to have it both ways. They want all the privileges of a chronically ill person, but none of the responsibility. Maybe this has something to do with how society stigmatises mental illness. I know "troons are mentally ill" is an easy dunk. But there's not necessarily anything wrong with having an illness that you can't control. As long as you accept that you have some responsibility to treat that illness. But instead it is now societies responsibility to accommodate troons. Rather than have them take responsibility for their own self improvement.

 

[AnOminous]

I do have to wonder if eventually the troons will go too far and they will have to be slapped down because they have made the communities they inhabit too dysfunctional.

They're like locusts and generally just move on to the next thing to ruin with their insane bullshit.

 

[Jacques1194]

TruffleSpark I think to add to your last part is also how TIFs for example want to be seen as men, but surprisingly a lot of them are perfectly ok with getting pregnant and giving birth.They want to be seen as seahorse dads but also need to chop off their breast to be seen as a man?This fact alone makes me believe gender identity is bullshit.If they really had a male brain then there's no way pregnancy wouldn't cause dysphoria to them.No actual guy i know would want to get pregnant and give birth.it goes back into what i said, what does it truly mean to be a man then when you want to get pregnant?​

 

[TruffleSpark]

I think to add to your last part is also how TIFs for example want to be seen as men, but surprisingly a lot of them are perfectly ok with getting pregnant and giving birth.They want to be seen as seahorse dads but also need to chop off their breast to be seen as a man?This fact alone makes me believe gender identity is bullshit.If they really had a male brain then there's no way pregnancy wouldn't cause dysphoria to them.No actual guy i know would want to get pregnant and give birth.it goes back into what i said, what does it truly mean to be a man then when you want to get pregnant?​

I genuinely think I may have understood the concept of gender dysphoria for the first time. Because thinking of myself getting pregnant makes me so uncomfortable. If I ever start unironically talking about wanting to get pregnant I hope someone puts a bullet in me because by that point I'll have already lost my mind.

 

[Jarry Seinfelt]

But instead it is now societies responsibility to accommodate troons. Rather than have them take responsibility for their own self improvement.

This, especially with the way that it's now incumbent on every left-of-Reagan movement to bend over and open wide for them.

Spoiler: PL

I've had left wing beliefs for most of my life. Back in the 2000s that was in the form of being against the Iraq War because okay, how's Osama hiding out two countries over didn't feel like a sufficient reason to send Americans to go die in Iraq. As I got older, I kept the anti-interventionism but it also evolved into believing that if you work an honest job you shouldn't go hungry.

But since 2016 or so I've affiliated myself less and less with left-wing beliefs and groups because they've become subordinated to trannies and tranny causes. It's all "be gay do crimes, the real problem with capitalism is that I'm not on top" now. Troons are fundamentally just fucking weird and unnerving, and I really believe down to the very core of my being that if you're not weirded out by them, that's because you've grown used to suppressing that feeling.

This is definitely most visible online and on pozzed social media outlets, but it's still definitely become more of a thing offline over the years; I've spent plenty of time in """lefty spaces""" in the real world, and the uptick in troonery there, and intolerance for any questioning of troonery, is certainly real. In 2023 progressives pretty much always start off with how conservatives are evil because they want to kill all troons, rather than the value of being pro-environment, anti-war, or pro-social safety nets.

 

[SHOT TRASHED]

I genuinely hate their retarded sense of "identity" and the cognitive dissonance that comes with it.

Sex changes have been a thing since the 1960s, and iirc it wasn't like modern day faggotry where you don't shut up about it. But point is, if someone wanted the surgery, they got it, moved on with their life. Probably 41%'d at some point.

Whatever direction a tranny goes in is ultimately meaningless, and I mean it in more than just the YWNBAW/M way. I mean socially and functionally, they are not a "woman" or a "man". They present themselves as a "Trans Woman" or a "Trans Man". As if "Trans" is just this third option in things. Through their retarded obsession with their fetish, and their desire to be the opposite sex/gender but also still be acknowledged for how special/brave/agp they are, they have landed themselves in a place where they're seen as neither, and its through their own decisions as well. But they also want to have their cake and eat it too which is why they're so obsessed with the "trans [thing] are [thing]" angle.

 

[Pee Cola]

Old timey trans folks are usually fine, and many of them have gone on to live productive lives without drawing unnecessary attention to themselves.

It's the current year troons who are the problem. The ones who use their protected status as a cheat code to invade women's spaces, groom kids and consent accident women. This often goes hand in hand with politisperging and attention seeking on social media.

The most obvious example of old vs new is Sophie Wilson and Liz Fong-Jones. Both are in tech, but one co-developed a microprocessor architecture that is now found in billions of devices around the world; the other is a rapist who spends every waking moment attempting to destroy the very fabric of the capital I Internet because they don't like a harmless New Zealand agriculturalist and flightless bird enjoyers' forum.

One has changed the world for the better; the other is attempting to change it for the worse.

 

[William Tyndale]

My biggest problem is that it is an attack on the foundational principle that the lord created us man and woman. My 2nd problem with it is that there are actually genetic anomalies where people are born with both sex organs and it belittles their actual struggle when a dick-sucking faggot wakes up one day and says “I’m a girl now.”

 

[FATTESTCUNT 2.0]

This is the bit I do have the problem with, though. The idea that they "feel like a woman". They don't know what it means to feel like a woman, because they've never experienced life as anything other than a man, with male hormones and male physical desires. Their description of "feeling female" inevitably skews towards superficial aspects like clothing and toys, or circular metaphysical nonsense that boils down to "I feel like it because that's what I am and that's what I am because I feel like it".

This 100%.

As a man, I can't say that I "feel like a man". I can't describe some innate sense of "being a man" that only men have. I just am a man. That's why I can't imagine what it's like to "feel like a woman".

It's why I find this ideology so toxic and confused.

We're told that gender is socially constructed, so the very idea of "femininity" for example, is supposedly the product of how and where women have been raised, not innate, yet at the same time, we're told that there are "male and female brains" and that people can be born "in the wrong body". Well, what are the traits associated with these "gendered brains"? The very ones we're told are socially constructed!

On top of that, we're told that gender is on a sliding scale, which I'd be fine with accepting if it wasn't for the fact that troon ideology uses old-fashioned gender stereotypes to then point to someone being the opposite of their sex "assigned at birth", i.e. a binary situation. Then, once a person switches from 0 to 1 or vice versa, they have to put on the act associated with those stereotypes, so if you're MTF, it's skirt go spinny, long hair, makeup, "ooh, I'm so emotional!!!", a fake high-pitched voice etc., like some grotesque parody.

None of it makes sense, at all.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

This 100%.

As a man, I can't say that I "feel like a man". I can't describe some innate sense of "being a man" that only men have. I just am a man. That's why I can't imagine what it's like to "feel like a woman".

It's why I find this ideology so toxic and confused.

We're told that gender is socially constructed, so the very idea of "femininity" for example, is supposedly the product of how and where women have been raised, not innate, yet at the same time, we're told that there are "male and female brains" and that people can be born "in the wrong body". Well, what are the traits associated with these "gendered brains"? The very ones we're told are socially constructed!

On top of that, we're told that gender is on a sliding scale, which I'd be fine with accepting if it wasn't for the fact that troon ideology uses old-fashioned gender stereotypes to then point to someone being the opposite of their sex "assigned at birth", i.e. a binary situation. Then, once a person switches from 0 to 1 or vice versa, they have to put on the act associated with those stereotypes, so if you're MTF, it's skirt go spinny, long hair, makeup, "ooh, I'm so emotional!!!", a fake high-pitched voice etc., like some grotesque parody.

None of it makes sense, at all.

To a limited degree of what I understand about the lack of concept of self with autism is that you have to understand thing's about socializing manually and from a third person perspective. When this happens it means that you can get the concept of what is going on and how it feels after a large amount of examniation in the experience you get and see in the real world. You see x amount of men situations and know what the response is or how it can feel so therefore you built a profile of what being "a man" is. It's almost like method acting but you're stupid.

 

[AnOminous]

It's almost like method acting but you're stupid.

They're mostly autistic so they're shit at even being what they actually are, so it's an even more repulsive parody of nature when they pretend to be what they aren't.

 

[PointOfNoReturnPoint]

They're mostly autistic so they're shit at even being what they actually are, so it's an even more repulsive parody of nature when they pretend to be what they aren't.

You got a point there, I Remember my own behaviuor as a kid and this is just the final product of it with no filtration or education.

 

[Jacques1194]

This is the bit I do have the problem with, though. The idea that they "feel like a woman". They don't know what it means to feel like a woman, because they've never experienced life as anything other than a man, with male hormones and male physical desires. Their description of "feeling female" inevitably skews towards superficial aspects like clothing and toys, or circular metaphysical nonsense that boils down to "I feel like it because that's what I am and that's what I am because I feel like it".

When they talk about a "female brain", they're creating an arbitrary boundary between the brain and the rest of the body. They imagine their brain exists in splendid isolation from the body; a self-contained module of thought that pilots a meat robot, over which it has total dominance, and from which it only receives consciously allowed information. It's a nonsense. The brain and body are intertwined and interdependent at every level. You could no more have a "female brain" in a male body than you could have a "male ovary" in a female body.

Same goes for tifs.

I noticed TRAs and TIPS drop the brain argument whenever non binary is brought up because it shows how ridiculous the brain argument is.Think about it.NBs claim to be neither a man or woman.If the concept of trans is really an isolation between the brain and body then NBs are close to saying they're sexless beings trapped inside a biological sex's body.(AKA their brains are neither male or female)Look up "gender affirming care for NBs" and you'll see that the surgery is basically having an organ that is neither a penis nor a vagina.(sometimes a mixture of both.)This shows the insanity of trans ideology.How can people have an inner feeling of being a man or woman but also some people are so disconnected from their body that they feel like they're basically neither?A(like i said) sexless being?