Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

At this point I am certain the brand was destroyed on purpose. You cannot ruin something as big as Star Wars just by being incompetent. You gotta have a lot of disdain for the brand to drive it into the ground and chase off the longtime fans.

One of the streamers posted a year or two ago had someone speculating that Star Wars was imploded as a social media mapping device. Basically fuck up the brand with so many big and controversial decisions, and have big-data scrape everyone talking about it. You can then start figuring out what fan groups talk about things first, how information and opinions spread, etc. You use that information to figure out your engagement and ad spend for other properties.

4 billion seems like a lot of money to burn for a sonar ping, but Disney has it and playing the long game, it might just be a drop in the bucket of they learn from it.
 
Just look at Furloni. It's all about Asshooka and the rest of his shitty OC's while characters from the old canon are humiliated in his works. Who wants to see the likes of Vader, Thrawn, Tarkin, or Palpatine turned into punching bags?
Funnily enough, another character that Filoni got extremely close to putting his "spin" on was Starkiller from The Force Unleashed, as well...at least, according to Sam Witwer. Filoni wanted to make him another henchman Inquisitor for Space Aladdin & The Gang to run circles around, but eventually chose not to, claiming he didn't "suit the story they were telling."

I know Starkiller doesn't have much of a character to ruin, but a part of me is relieved that Furloni never inserted him into that retarded show of his.
 
One of the streamers posted a year or two ago had someone speculating that Star Wars was imploded as a social media mapping device. Basically fuck up the brand with so many big and controversial decisions, and have big-data scrape everyone talking about it. You can then start figuring out what fan groups talk about things first, how information and opinions spread, etc. You use that information to figure out your engagement and ad spend for other properties.

4 billion seems like a lot of money to burn for a sonar ping, but Disney has it and playing the long game, it might just be a drop in the bucket of they learn from it.
Corporations tend to use companies like Parrot Analytics to measure the success of a brand. Instead of getting some actual feedback from the audience, they just count the interactions, the simple mention of "Star Wars" in a post on social media will count as a positive interaction, even if the entire post says: "Disney Star Wars is crap".
 
Funnily enough, another character that Filoni got extremely close to putting his "spin" on was Starkiller from The Force Unleashed, as well...at least, according to Sam Witwer. Filoni wanted to make him another henchman Inquisitor for Space Aladdin & The Gang to run circles around, but eventually chose not to, claiming he didn't "suit the story they were telling."

I know Starkiller doesn't have much of a character to ruin, but a part of me is relieved that Furloni never inserted him into that retarded show of his.
You can't really bring Starkiller into canon successfully. His appeal is the power fantasy and that power fantasy doesn't work outside of leniency granted by a video game setting that's playing loose with it's interpretation of the force for the sake of spectacle. So, you'd either tone him down, thus taking away most of the reason people enjoy him in the first place, or you keep him as is and make Star Wars go full shonen anime.
 
Funnily enough, another character that Filoni got extremely close to putting his "spin" on was Starkiller from The Force Unleashed, as well...at least, according to Sam Witwer. Filoni wanted to make him another henchman Inquisitor for Space Aladdin & The Gang to run circles around
You can't really bring Starkiller into canon successfully. His appeal is the power fantasy and that power fantasy doesn't work outside of leniency granted by a video game setting that's playing loose with it's interpretation of the force for the sake of spectacle. So, you'd either tone him down, thus taking away most of the reason people enjoy him in the first place
Oh, let me guess - Starkiller would have been turned into a castrated shadow of his former self, repeatedly defeated by Ahsoka & Gang. Just like Tarkin, Vader, Thrawn, Palpatine - appears, gets beaten in the same episode, disappears from the show. Another established villain known for their power or brutality humiliated by a ragtag group of Aladdins.

And just to rub in the salt, Filoni would have made it so Starkiller learned the silly reverse lightsaber grip from Ahsoka. "So I had this funny idea, hehe... Asshooka's cool reverse lightsaber grip was inspired by this guy, so why not have this guy get it from Asshooka."

All while consoomers would have coomed all over Youtube, "Wow, Starkiller is canon, guys! Our lord and savior Filoni truly cares, he is a fan like us!"

make Star Wars go full shonen anime.
Might as well at this point.
Watch as Disney drones coom all over it while shitting at Starkiller at the same time. This never made sense to me. The same people who use Starkiller as justification for killing the old EU are cooming over how cool the new Force stunts are.

"Disney really had to erase the old EU, just look at how terribly OP Starkiller was! By the way, did you see how Darth Vader stopped blaster bolts mid-air and tore down a spaceship? Badass! This is what Star Wars is all about!"
 
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Getting close to Ahsoka being released and I'm really hoping this one "leak" I saw awhile back in some discord server comes true because it's so bad that I'd just burst out laughing. And it'd likely suit Filoni's lazy half assed writing. - You know, him taking inspiration from D&D.

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I miss George, guys :( For better and worse, it's just not star wars without him at the helm giving vague directions and slapping shit together as he goes; then basically telling anyone who doesn't like it to fuck off while he makes up some other brand new shit on the spot to fuck with you more :story:

Shame he got too old and soft to keep dealing with the hate, and that none of his kids gave a shit about taking over.
 
I miss George, guys :( For better and worse, it's just not star wars without him at the helm giving vague directions and slapping shit together as he goes; then basically telling anyone who doesn't like it to fuck off while he makes up some other brand new shit on the spot to fuck with you more :story:

Shame he got too old and soft to keep dealing with the hate, and that none of his kids gave a shit about taking over.
Too bad he didn't let authors like Zahn in inherit and left it to Filoni. Now, granted, Zahn cucked out himself, but novel writers probably would have done a better job adapting their books than Filoni's slap dash kiddy stuff.
 
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You can't really bring Starkiller into canon successfully. His appeal is the power fantasy and that power fantasy doesn't work outside of leniency granted by a video game setting that's playing loose with it's interpretation of the force for the sake of spectacle. So, you'd either tone him down, thus taking away most of the reason people enjoy him in the first place, or you keep him as is and make Star Wars go full shonen anime.
He’s supposed to be the star wars equivalent of Kratos. Same genre, Dual Wielded blades, and everything.

He would destroy ahsoka after a short brutal fight and throw her into a sarlaac pit where she belongs. After crushing several imperial shuttlecraft like soda cans.
 
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Now, granted, Zahn cucked out himself

I mean sort of. He got himself a hell of a payday to rewrite the Thrawn triliogy for the new, gay star wars EU. The only thing I can really fault him for there is bending the knee to the rat while it was known that they were trying to fuck their writers on royalties to sign away rights until Alan Dean Forester publicly shamed them and it got traction. (though as I understand it, for agreeing to write new novels he got to basically keep his existing deal; I'm not going to heavily blame anyone for FYGM) Zahn doesn't have the pull ADF has... but would have been swell if he'd held out in solidarity.

Zahn actually probably would have a great minder for Star Wars but not for the reasons people would think. Zahn is largely a hired gun, so you could have him as consultant to direct and oversee the lore. He's got enough understanding of the universe to make the calls but not so deeply invested his emotion would rule.

First 2 seasons of Mando are coming to blu-ray. As is some Marvel junk.

*doesn't provide physical media*
"Wait people will pirate our shit rather than spend $15 a month for eternity to ensure access to content they like?"
surpised_pikachu.jpg
 
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I mean sort of. He got himself a hell of a payday to rewrite the Thrawn triliogy for the new, gay star wars EU. The only thing I can really fault him for there is bending the knee to the rat while it was known that they were trying to fuck their writers on royalties to sign away rights until Alan Dean Forester publicly shamed them and it got traction. (though as I understand it, for agreeing to write new novels he got to basically keep his existing deal; I'm not going to heavily blame anyone for FYGM) Zahn doesn't have the pull ADF has... but would have been swell if he'd held out in solidarity.

Zahn actually probably would have a great minder for Star Wars but not for the reasons people would think. Zahn is largely a hired gun, so you could have him as consultant to direct and oversee the lore. He's got enough understanding of the universe to make the calls but not so deeply invested his emotion would rule.



*doesn't provide physical media*
"Wait people will pirate our shit rather than spend $15 a month for eternity to ensure access to content they like?"
surpised_pikachu.jpg

Oh, Zahn's far more than a hiree gun. Put aside his Star Wars books, and he's STILL an award winning and best selling sci-fi author.

His Cobra, Blackcollar and Icarus series are each damned good. Hell, the first Cobra book is literally free, and The Icarus Plot is eligible for the Dragon Award. If you haven't read either, no excuses anymore.

Zahn has been VERY open about why he took the Disney novels:
-Disney begged him to give the novel line a win, and as we saw from the leaks, he has been the ONLY consistent seller in a decade of Star Wars novels from Disney.
-They gave him a literal shitload of money. Rebecca Roanhorse or Claudia Gray might write a book for $2k, but Zahn isn't some YA author they can short change.
-He was one of the guys who forced Disney not to shaft Alan Dean Foster and the other EU authors on royalties.
-He would never write anything that would contradict his EU books... and Disney can't make him.

So he got enough cash he can write whatever he wants now - and he is, hell, his Icarus series has THREE new books coming out in the next year - and got to humble the Rat on stiffing the EU authors.
 
Wait, Star Trek?
Yeah, there is some new line that is covering all of classic Trek and it has at least four or six pegs while Star Wars has a grand total of two. They're cheaper than the SW figures too to add insult to injury.
I miss George, guys :( For better and worse, it's just not star wars without him at the helm giving vague directions and slapping shit together as he goes; then basically telling anyone who doesn't like it to fuck off while he makes up some other brand new shit on the spot to fuck with you more
If you want to get even bigger feels listen and compare the end credits for Revenge of the Sith with Rise of Skywalker. The former you can feel the emotion of Williams conducting what should have been the final movie of the Saga, and then you have latter which is some half assed paint by numbers feel.
 
He’s supposed to be the star wars equivalent of Kratos. Same genre, Dual Wielded blades, and everything.

He would destroy ahsoka after a short brutal fight and throw her into a sarlaac pit where she belongs. After crushing several imperial shuttlecraft like soda cans.
Starkiller made everyone his bitch, Ashoka is not even on the same level.
 
TFU was the project that ultimately killed the franchise.
You won't hear me advocating for Force Unleashed anytime soon. While there's a sprinkle of interesting concepts here and there, the wider narrative repercussions are disastrous on the wider continuity, particularly where the founding of the Rebellion is concerned.

The lone consolation is that authors throughout the company shied away from incorporating Starkiller or the events surrounding him in any further material. You'll notice that any and all narrative elements related to The Force Unleashed are remarkably absent in all published comics and novels from 2008 onwards--not a namedrop, or even reference to the events of that game, almost like they never happened. This conscious effort by the authors to be hands-off with Starkiller and his storylines in either TFU 1 or 2, largely to avoid any continuity conflicts with the planned third game...which as we all know, never materialized.

As a result, everything related to Force Unleashed feels orphaned, and effectively memory-holed by the official continuity itself, as further story arcs of the 2010's like Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi, and even OT-centric storylines like Choices of One or the later comic book issues for Dark Times made zero references or callbacks to Starkiller's adventures.

It's a similar situation to how the bulk of EU material started to have less and less references to TCW as that show went on.

You can't really bring Starkiller into canon successfully. His appeal is the power fantasy and that power fantasy doesn't work outside of leniency granted by a video game setting that's playing loose with it's interpretation of the force for the sake of spectacle.
...too late.
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First 2 seasons of Mando are coming to blu-ray. As is some Marvel junk.
If anyone is getting the idea that maybe Disney is reversing their stance on physical media, I wouldn't get too excited.

They're still winding down on worldwide distribution of physical media to strong-arm people into subscribing to their failing streaming service, as their outright ceasing of physical releases in Australia this month proves. They're just hoping that they can dangle enough keys in front of their core Western market so that not enough people notice them fucking an entire chunk of the world over.

Too bad he didn't let authors like Zahn in inherit and left it to Filoni. Now, granted, Zahn cucked out himself, but novel writers probably would have done a better job adapting their books than Filoni's slap dash kiddy stuff.
Zahn is sitting where he is because of outright complicity to both Disney and Filoni's handling of his work. He not only consulted with Filoni on Thrawn's depiction of Rebels, declaring from the rooftops to media outlets everywhere that the Rebels version of his character was "true and authentic" to his vision (in spite of the show outright bastardizing Thrawn as a character), but he even altered Thrawn's characterization and backstory in his most recent novels to better accommodate Rebels' changes. He also altered SW lore to better accommodate The Rise of Skywalker, by retconning the name Skywalker to mean "Wayfinder" in the Chiss language to tie-in with that dumbass movie, and even used an entire chapter of Thrawn Alliances to shill for Disney's retarded park expansion...by having Padme take a detour to the Galaxy's Edge planet, Batuu, so she can literally try out and compliment food items from the theme park menu, in the most blatant, shameless marketing and whoring out of SW lore I've ever seen.

Yes, all of this happened, yes it is current in the Mouse continuity, and yes, Zahn is 100% complicit in it. Which all be far more tolerable if his most recent books were at all readable in spite of all that....which they aren't. The Chiss Politics in the recent Ascendancy Trilogy were so laborious and agonizingly shit, you even had dedicated shill sites commenting on how bad it was. Zahn has a presence at conventions and the like, but that's largely him coasting off his success in the EU, not anything he's written recently.

That's why you'll notice there's almost no hype, discourse or discussion about Zahn's books anywhere online, if people even remember they exist in the first place.

If you want to get even bigger feels listen and compare the end credits for Revenge of the Sith with Rise of Skywalker. The former you can feel the emotion of Williams conducting what should have been the final movie of the Saga, and then you have latter which is some half assed paint by numbers feel.
I mean, that's not saying a whole lot. Most, if not all of Williams' orchestral contributions to the Disney Era has been "paint by the numbers". And that has less to do with him as a composer, and more of him going through the motions without a whole lot of creative oversight from the people he's collaborating with.

Part of the reason why the music in the OT was so good, and even better in the PT, was because George Lucas is himself extremely knowledgeable about classical music. When temping the score for the OT films, he would use classical orchestrations, and would constantly consult with Williams about what he wanted with musical motifs for the likes of Leia or Vader, referencing specific cues from Holst, Verdi, Brahms and the like. Much like the concept and design work done on the PT, it was a lot of Lucas' own meticulous, bordering-on-autistic obsession with small details like this that brought out the best work of people like Williams.

But when you have people with the cultural and musical literacy of a gnat like Abrams or Johnson (the former of which literally denied Williams footage to compose around in fear of his mystery box bullshit getting leaked), what you get is the wallpaper sound of the ST, that doesn't measure up to even the weakest of Williams' previous collaborations with Lucas.

Hell, even the march that Williams composed for the Soviets in Crystal Skull is more melodious than the snoozefest of a march he wrote for the First Order in the new films.
 
You won't hear me advocating for Force Unleashed anytime soon. While there's a sprinkle of interesting concepts here and there, the wider narrative repercussions are disastrous on the wider continuity, particularly where the founding of the Rebellion is concerned.

The lone consolation is that authors throughout the company shied away from incorporating Starkiller or the events surrounding him in any further material. You'll notice that any and all narrative elements related to The Force Unleashed are remarkably absent in all published comics and novels from 2008 onwards--not a namedrop, or even reference to the events of that game, almost like they never happened. This conscious effort by the authors to be hands-off with Starkiller and his storylines in either TFU 1 or 2, largely to avoid any continuity conflicts with the planned third game...which as we all know, never materialized.

As a result, everything related to Force Unleashed feels orphaned, and effectively memory-holed by the official continuity itself, as further story arcs of the 2010's like Legacy of the Force, Fate of the Jedi, and even OT-centric storylines like Choices of One or the later comic book issues for Dark Times made zero references or callbacks to Starkiller's adventures.

It's a similar situation to how the bulk of EU material started to have less and less references to TCW as that show went on.
Starkiller was never canon though? I thought that was painfully obvious. He, and the force unleashed games/novels, seemed to be pretty clearly nothing more than a what if/power fantasy that had slightly more relevance than other EU material because George had a direct hand in it. And I'd wager he only had a hand in this particular series because it centered so heavily around the OT, and we know George didn't like other people monkeying with that timeline of events. Or the clone war era for that matter.

You seem to have to impression that simply because it was a game with George's name on it, that it was 100% canon at the time which is pretty dumb.

Like this is a series where some random no body grows to be stronger than vader, palpatine and Luke. Do we really think George, Mr "palpatine and vader are the greatest sith to ever live and Luke is the best jedi of all time" would let some random OC dunk on his babies if he had any intention of making that character part of the galaxy proper? No. He wouldn't, clearly.

Starkiller was far too connected and involved with OT timeline shit to ever be made true canon. Also as far as TCW tie ins, again George was very adamant about people not fucking with the OT or the clone wars. Those were his sandboxes to play in, and if you wanted to even get near that play area, George needed to give the ok to make sure you weren't crossing into his territory.

Plus, as much as I like starkiller, there's nothing there. He's one of the most bland characters star wars has ever produced outside of other OP, mute self inserts like Revan or The Exile. So where exactly do you go with him? He's got no personality to speak of and his defining character trait is "stronger than everyone evar1!1!".

Fact is, if George wanted to continue using starkiller and make him canon, he would have. Yet during that entire period all we got was a couple games and a novel or two. Clearly even the Big Man himself wasn't too invested or interested in the character.
 
@Rick The Stick
Starkiller was never canon though? I thought that was painfully obvious. He, and the force unleashed games/novels, seemed to be pretty clearly nothing more than a what if/power fantasy that had slightly more relevance than other EU material because George had a direct hand in it. And I'd wager he only had a hand in this particular series because it centered so heavily around the OT, and we know George didn't like other people monkeying with that timeline of events. Or the clone war era for that matter.
Force Unleashed was very much marketed the way that the rest of the Expanded Universe was...in that it was canon to the brand. Back in those days, there really wasn't a debate about what Lucas considered canon or not, because the EU was still continuing regardless, and revising itself regularly to stay in sync with his films.

So as far as marketing and licensing was concerned, Force Unleashed was indeed part of the official continuity they were curating for fans. What counts in hindsight, however, is the long-term impact of something like TFU as a story in all stories produced afterwards. So, yes, Force Unleashed TECHNICALLY happened, but when it's almost never mentioned anywhere outside of the games themselves...why bother acknowledging it?

It's a bit like the Crystal Star or the Jedi Prince novels, if anyone's read those. If the future novels and comics aren't ever going to reference those events, I sure as fuck don't have any incentive to acknowledge they even exist.

You seem to have to impression that simply because it was a game with George's name on it, that it was 100% canon at the time which is pretty dumb.
I didn't make that claim. Not only because of the authorial distancing from the project in future books that I mentioned, but also because Lucas himself distanced himself from the project.

Not to an official capacity mind you, but he didn't seem happy with how Force Unleashed turned out in the long run, and the enthusiasm he had for it while it was in production seemed to have waned post-release. I say this because during Red Fly's brief collaboration with LucasArts to make the doomed Darth Maul game, developers on that project reported that they were given a briefing on "how to talk to George" when he came by to visit their studio, and apparently, one of the mandates was that they weren't supposed to bring up Starkiller or The Force Unleashed around him. This was around 2011:

“A Red Fly contingent traveled to LucasArts, first meeting with Paul Meegan. [LucasArts] said, ‘There is a lot of crosstalk going on, misinformation. Let’s actually sit down and have you guys talk to George.’

The next day, Red Fly finally met with George Lucas, but not before being told how to talk to him. [They] were told not to mention Force Unleashed’s protagonist, Starkiller. If he’s referred to by George, it will be “that guy.” [Red Fly’s] representatives arrived at the meeting point early the next day, only to find LucasArts employees rushing Force Unleashed artwork out of the conference room, and replacing it with other Star Wars artworks"

Clearly, there was some kind of change of heart where Lucas was concerned, because he went from being all gung-ho about the game in its early developmental stage in 2005 to all but blacklisting the game from project meetings as late as 2011. So how "canon" he considered it is somewhat dubious, given how he didn't seem to want it even mentioned in his presence.

Clearly even the Big Man himself wasn't too invested or interested in the character.
Worse than that, it seems, as I've highlighted above. He was starting to treat this project like a disowned child he didn't want to acknowledge ever again.

Which is hilarious, given how it's the complete opposite of his sentiments when it came to incorporating an EU character like Darth Talon, who he not only wanted included in the unmade Darth Maul game, but included her as a major character in two seperate Sequel Trilogy treatments--one he wrote in 2005, and the other he drafted for the Disney Acquisition in 2012. He clearly loved his evil red Twi'lek Waifu, and was fighting breathlessly to include her wherever possible. And honestly, as someone who read the Legacy comics fairly recently, I can't say I blame him.

The man's got taste, if nothing else.

Starkiller was far too connected and involved with OT timeline shit to ever be made true canon.
No disagreements there. He has the Ahsoka problem, tbh--an ancillary character that's meant to exist in the margins of the films, and yet inexplicably tethered to the most important parts of the films to the point of shattering believability.

I think if he'd stayed an assassin dispatched to wipe out Order 66 survivors, like how he'd been at the start of the game, the story would be mostly excusable. But when you have him meeting Bail Organa, organizing the formation of the Rebellion, fighting and beating both Palpatine and Vader in the same room, and then having his family crest taken up as the insignia of the Rebel Alliance...it strains believability, to say the least.

It was extremely fanfic-esque, and uncharacteristically misguided narrative self-indulgence from Hayden Blackman, who's a typically reliable Star Wars writer. The only difference between his antics and Filoni's antics right now is that the former was actually willing to kill his OC off...something Filoni would never permit to happen to his orange paragon of the universe.
 
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