Starfield - Bethesda's new space IP: will probably be full of fun and easily trackable bugs

How do you think Starfield will turn out?


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The issues with the creation engine and the old NetImmerse code come from Bethesda refusing to overhaul and fix things, and insisting on using old tricks over and over.

Plenty of other engines like Source and Frostbite and Unreal have ancient code in them just like the Creation Engine. You can find old Quake code in the bowels of the Source engine for example but Valve isn't at the same time using the same textures and map size limitations.
 
The issues with the creation engine and the old NetImmerse code come from Bethesda refusing to overhaul and fix things, and insisting on using old tricks over and over.

Plenty of other engines like Source and Frostbite and Unreal have ancient code in them just like the Creation Engine. You can find old Quake code in the bowels of the Source engine for example but Valve isn't at the same time using the same textures and map size limitations.
Oh definitely, and if the rumors of ID software being brought in to fix the scripting/physics/other issues tied around Bethesda being lazy, then I think their will be less bugs than other the Bethesda games and we will see what the actual issues with the engines are, if not the story telling of Bethesda (spoiler alert: people are comparing it to Oblivion & that's pretty Meh when it comes to the story, but not as egregious as Skyrim or Fallout 3.
 
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Any  suckers kiwis get the special preorder that lets you play early willing to report back?
I have to wait until next pay period anyway even if I wanted to buy on release but I'm still curious about how it actually feels to play.
 
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Another lie from Todd? Must be Tuesday.
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I expected this immediately, the way Todd was carefully wording everything. He is very specific in what he says but people take that and blow it out of proportions. He technically didn't 'lie'.
Check out this gameplay.

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Beautiful.
It does look like Destiny, like when you equip one of the terrible sidearms or 180rpm hand canons and ads and click spam, does about the same damage too.
They did not. They said you could explore the entire planet, but it looks like it only loads a portion of the planet at a time. I assume its kind of like how cells worked in Morrowind.

For those unaware, in Morrowind the Island of Vvardenfel was divided into a series of cells and when you crossed the border from one cell to another it would take a quick second or three to load in all the Assets and Actors it needed to populate the zone. It allowed them to have a large open world in the original Xbox era when most PCs couldn't handle it at the time.

From what I've seen of the leak its the same thing. You get to an invisible wall and it tells you to fast travel back to your ship and go to the next part of the planet to explore it there, meaning rather than melting your CPU and GPU rendering entire planets at once, they're just focusing on localized portions of wherever you set down.

Its actually a lot smarter than trying to render an entire planet at once IMHO.
Cell based open worlds were out of date decades ago, but Bethesda is still using them because their shitty engine is already broken enough that they can't change to something else because of how ingrained into everything it is. They would have to change how ESP files work because of the removal of an active grid, they would need to re-do the LOD system entirely, the terrain system would obviously need to be re-done as well, probably all the AI stuff too. It's absolutely the engine at blame, but its from decades of tech debt and broken hacks going back to Morrowind. Studios don't make new engines because of the astronomical cost now with modern rendering and all the features expected. At most you can expect some overhauls, but entire engines are too much, and too expensive.

Bethesda technically did overhaul a large amount of the engine for Starfield, just the rendering. They ripped out the terrible rendering and replaced it with an open source framework called The Forge. They also changed their animation system and I think physics engine. But while this fixes some of the longstanding issues, it doesn't fix the ancient cell based worlds that were out of date by the time Oblivion came out, and I don't think they ever will change them.

Reason for the invisible walls is that Creation has a hard limit on the size of worlds, its some integer limit or something, but Skyrim just barely fits inside. Once you pass that limit you can't have active grids anymore or something. I believe the Beyond Skyrim team (lol) ran into this with Cyrodiil and they had to split it with loading screens. Morrowind doesn't have this issue for some reason (probably related to world spaces or something, but you could probably ask an OpenMW dev for actual info), but instead it has issues with floating point precision and the game gets unstable the further out you go (OpenMW fixes this with high precision floats and not being a janky broken engine in general).
 
Any  suckers kiwis get the special preorder that lets you play early willing to report back?
I have to wait until next pay period anyway even if I wanted to buy on release but I'm still curious about how it actually feels to play.
I was considering it, but then I started replaying Oblivion and having fun with it and I also saw some other shit I wanted to buy more than Starfield so unless one of my friends bites the bullet (which I doubt) I'm holding off until Gamepass release.
 
Any  suckers kiwis get the special preorder that lets you play early willing to report back?
I got it for cheap on G2A, we'll see if I'm a sucker who gets ripped off or if I managed to get it cheaper. Although I mostly use Kiwifarms while I'm at work and its a 3 day weekend, so it might be Tuesday before you hear back from me.
 
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Bethesda should just do a collage of Sony fans seething on Twitter, cause this Imagine Dragons song is pretty faggy marketing and making me not want to play the game.
TBH most normies would probably at least shoved a shotgun in their mouths when they hear a Imagine Dragons song, not King Thrash gaming showing off his acumen of failing 5th grade, they would be more confused about how retards even survive
 
Lmao. The only thing they don't want to stress is their shitty engine from 20 years ago.
To add to the current game engine discussion, it's not that Creation Engine is bad because it's old.

For example, Source 2 is a direct derivative of the Quake Engine. Valve got the source code from id, essentially making a hard fork of it, and made Goldsrc. Then they've hard forked that and overhauled it, thus creating Source. And then they've improved on that and created Source 2. And they've never rewritten this from scratch, there's hard evidence that Source 2 still has code from the OG Quake Engine.

Same with Unreal. I do not think Epic ever rewrote that thing from scratch, so current day Unreal 5 is a direct derivative of Unreal from the 90's. Both of these engines do not show any sings of stagnation or lack of development. And you know why? Because Valve and Epic worked hard and employed talented people to get it to that point. Bethesda were always shit at writing code, the base code was shit, their additions were shit, and all of that technical debt added up to give us current day Creation Engine.

Basically, all the issues of Creation Engine are purely Bethesda's fault. Not NetImmerse, not Gamebryo, not that it's all derivative from a 90's codebase, it's all Bethesda. They could've improved the engine to the point of being a major rival in the RPG scene, but they didn't, because they lack the skills to do so, and instead made it a barely working patchwork that never progressed much further from it's origins.
Check out this gameplay.

View attachment 5299271

Beautiful.
I love how through all these years Bethesda's NPC's are still on Oblivion levels of jank. The guard NPC running up to the player, then stopping, then the game forcing the camera onto him and zooming in, albeit now without the awkward zoom in animation, the entire world freezing for the dialogue and the anticipation of the player's response, and the NPC being very stiff in general. Not a single improvement in this regard ever since 2006. :story:
I find it really odd that people are upset about boundaries, like bruh every game out there have invisible walls/boundaries, the difference is how games can get creative.
  • Crysis? You swim too far out and you get a missile up your ass
  • GTA 5? You get buck broken by sharks
  • Subnautica? Yeah they have those glow in the dark CIA leviathan niggers stalking you and you can try and pull a Terry A Davis on them
  • Just Cause 3? You just die, nothing else
  • Mad Max? You are engulfed in a never-ending lighting sandstorm until you die
I get that people buy into the hype of Toddy McHoward and are upset. But c'mon, if the worst things on the planets are invisible walls and that's enough to be outrage about it, then find a true & honest game that doesn't have invisible walls and enjoy that
I remember wandering off God knows where in The Witcher 3, and then Geralt stopping, saying something about losing the path, and then the game pulled up the map to show me I was at the map's boundary suggesting that I should move the other way.

It's still a rather blatant way of turning the player away from the map border but it was still better executed than the game just showing a popup saying you're at the world's border. At least it attempts to blend in with the game's universe in some way.
 
It does look like Destiny, like when you equip one of the terrible sidearms or 180rpm hand canons and ads and click spam, does about the same damage too.
Oh god it fucking does, right down to the muzzle flip. Looks like that exotic stasis sidearm.
 
I never really could get into the original fallout honestly. As the tryhard souls kids say, I got "filtered" attempting to play it. As for Dead Money, other than the fact you can't disable every speaker and some security holograms can't be disabled, it's honestly a decent dlc.
A lot of Dead Money's game play is annoying, to be honest, but the core of it's message is what NV's story is trying to convince you of. Let go and begin again = stop holding onto the old world and build something new. Honest Hearts and Old World Blues lend support to that, Lonesome Road is annoying because it rubs your face in it. The game has it's flaws, but the writing is the best of the 3D Fallouts. I'd say Bethesda just needs to hire better writers, but Christ Above look at the rest of the industry writing right now. Anthony "Cucklord" Birch still gets writing jobs and he's absolute trash tier.
 
I keep swinging between thinking this will be good, and thinking that this will be ass. Todds sweet lies sink into my brain meat. I can feel them
Just embrace the truth about Bethesda games. Parts of it will be good and scratch an itch nothing else does, parts of it will be ass and we'll all laugh and bitch about them. And then everyone will put hundreds to thousands of hours into it without an ounce of shame.
 
But at least you can have your proper pronouns.
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Oh man, this is the first feature Todd announces that I actually want to be a lie.
How much are we betting that there is gonna be a "remove pronouns from the game" mod and that it is gonna be removed by the tranny jannies from nexus just like the spider man thing.

Though it would be much funnier if there was mod where npcs would keep calling you a man even if you chose she/her pronouns
 
Remember when Kojima pushed for the Fox engine and it basically ruined his entire standing at Konami and screwed their entire gaming division?

Of course not, because nobody wants to admit that the Fox engine was a collossally stupid move cause Kojima is God or whatever.
you're right; so whats the appropriate move? i find it hard to believe game engines from over a decade don't need improvements. although thats mainly because people blame a lack of vehicles or ladder climbing or seamless entering of buildings on the engine and assume the new one would be able to handle that shit easily.
Somehow worse than what the tards that made Sonic Adventure 25 years ago could do. we've literally regressed 3 generations.
 
Dead Money achieved making me have to actually sweat making ends meet and scrounge as hard as I could to have enough supplies to pull through, which cements its place in my heart. That's the big problem with the Bethesda RPGs: in Skyrim you can be toting around four suits of armor and fifteen swords no prob, in Fallout nothing's stopping you having ten rifles and a hundred stimpacks; you can be hauling a wheelbarrow's worth of shit around to drop off at the next vendor you find, so money quickly becomes a complete non-issue. Even when installing mods that make drops scarcer, the difficulty just isn't there. I imagine I'm going to need to self-impose some sort of halfway-realistic carry capacity rules on myself for this to be any sort of challenge, as I expect they're still going to be categorizing items by weight rather than by how unwieldy they are to carry.
 
you're right; so whats the appropriate move? i find it hard to believe game engines from over a decade don't need improvements. although thats mainly because people blame a lack of vehicles or ladder climbing or seamless entering of buildings on the engine and assume the new one would be able to handle that shit easily.
Again GameBryo/Creation Engine/NetImmerse can handle Ladder Climbing, it's more of BGS being too lazy to fix the scripting to create such animations
 
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