Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[Potatis Salad]

@Trianon Lunacy. Lunacy!!! Joe is not stupid. I cannot understand how it's possible that he has so little ability to construct an argument. None of this makes any sense whatsoever. "I am biological, my driver's license says female, therefore I am a woman" is 10x more coherent than anything he said.

Consider this one:

Joe: "TERFs use English slang to disorient us!"
Edel: "It's Irish slang too. I'm Irish."
Joe: "Yes, TERFs avoid using Americanisms and words from Greek/Roman antiquity!"
FUCKING WHAT????????

Side note, I went over to his Twitter to grab a better screenshot of the excerpt above and all I see in his feed is this:

Seems like a Twitter error, anyone else getting this?

 

[behindyourightnow]

It all makes a lot more sense when you remind yourself that Joe is a coward who is terrified of directly stating any opinions he thinks will open him up to criticism, and also terrified of looking wrong.

So he dances around, thinking he is being very clever hiding behind non-sequiturs and ripostes after he does something ridiculous (like criticizing an Irish person for using Irish slang), when he is in fact just making himself look even more ridiculous.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

Corinna Cohn of Heterodorx accidentally predicts his spiral.

This last tweet of Corinna's is my favorite super obvious move with whatever it is you want to call the sophists who do what Joe does that they think is imaginative and clever and sophisticated. They do all this "undermining" of the semiotic hierarchy or whatever and in the end expect you to just automatically accept their very singular and specific narrow hierarchy as the only option which reveals they don't actually believe their "liberationary" bullshit. If it's all subjective and relative and we can just make it mean whatever we want then I'm specifically not ever accepting whatever Joe wants anything to mean purely to spite him personally. Nah, you can't identify as that sex because I don't recognize your imposing the concept of sex on me, fash.

Revealed preferences as always, or to use Sokal's example, they sure spend everyday acting like gravity is real, objective and a discourse they can't "queer" although their response is to typically claim that's only because someone isn't clapping to keep Tinkerbell alive. (Although they'd put it in prose more deliberately opaque and incomprehensible than that schizo professor who has a thread on here.)

 

[Trianon]

Just some highlights today, I grew weary.

"I simply do not require any such performance, by you or by anyone else. Please, call me a man if it makes sense to you to do so. Just don't call me a pedophile, and don't send stolen pictures of me having sex to my mother."

He thinks protecting women's privacy means we will one day lock them up in their houses (like COVID?). Never mind that women's accommodations exist so they can leave their house.

"Terfs want to establish specific class-based rights on the basis that women are, as they say, 'on average' weaker and smaller than me, and therefore 'require' additional 'protection' from the state. That idea also empowers states like TX to prevent women from leaving the house.
'Recognizing that women's lungs and relatively weaker immune systems make them especially vulnerable to airborne illnesses, be it resolved that such persons as are deemed women shall be restricted to indoor spaces during periods in which the Air Quality Index rises over 130.'"

"Ppl should have an absolute right to freedom of assembly in public spaces. If you want to have a little treehouse that I'm not allowed in, feel free. I do not care a jot. All I care is that (a) adequate facilities are provided for all, and (b) that they not require surveillance."
...
"I think this conversation would be a lot easier if you acknowledged that women have many different ideas about this issue. And as for 'harassment,' grow up. Your definition of 'lesbian' is not universally shared. Boo fucking hoo. Try not to call people rapists bc you feel sad."
...

I say you're being hypervigilant. You did not disagree. Therefore, you are the problem. Because "hyper" means too much, and the word I chose for you is accurate. Trans women are women, it's in the phrase! I'm smart.

This made me MATI. Group of narcs erodes established norms and laws. Blames victims that the norms/laws protect for noticing.

"I'm guilty of this too. It's almost impossible to resist. I'm smarter and wittier than a lot of terfs, so I think it is funny to pirouette around them sometimes. To the terfs, this makes me cruel and evasive. I don't really know what I get out of it. Relief, but from what?"

"The idea that the word 'women' was used to describe chromosomes, rather than a social position, prior to 2014, is absolutely laughable."

!??!!!!??!?!

 

[expectant asshole]

Oh joe you idiot, of course it’s not a crime to have a penis. It’s a crime to show that penis to people who don’t want to see that penis. We call that flashing and, in the current fucked up world, if the person flashing their penis says they’re a man it’s a crime. If they say they’re a woman, it’s not a crime and the people complaining are committing a hate crime. What women (and most reasonable men) want, is for the identity of that penis owner not to matter and that showing people who haven’t consented to see a penis to still be s crime.

Ya know, I kinda like joe because I’m definitely no intellectual powerhouse but if that’s the debating prowess of a professor at respectable (or at least used to be) university, I’m a lot smarter than I give myself credit for. Thanks joe for the self esteem boost!

 

[AirdropShitposts]

He's telegraphing his smarter and wittier pirouettes too much, when he gets the response he's looking for he's going to jump way back in history and be incredulous that the person thinks people in like 1905 or something were talking about chromosomes. The question for Joe is where's his next move if someone points out that they were, they just didn't know it yet. Surely, he won't reject other ways of knowing and try to hold a comparatively subaltern culture to modern standards. (What's his move if someone reverse baits him into defining the social position and then using his claims regarding sex earlier against him? What's his move if someone reaches even farther back and uses primogeniture or monarchial orders of succession against him, how were they defining social positions with other social positions that required their own definitions?)

The next move in these kinds of cases would be: haha you terfs crack me up but this is boring now i have so many important and popular things to do, prisons to abolish, stunning fashions to procure, nearby women to neg, etc.

 

[behindyourightnow]

"Pirouetting" is a good description, actually. Joe's attempts at witticism do call to mind a lumbering male in a tutu attempting to jump daintily around a confused, frightened woman, the ground trembling each time the weight of his obese body crashes back down to earth.

He's telegraphing his smarter and wittier pirouettes too much, when he gets the response he's looking for he's going to jump way back in history and be incredulous that the person thinks people in like 1905 or something were talking about chromosomes. The question for Joe is where's his next move if someone points out that they were, they just didn't know it yet.

Unless people know the precise scientific reason behind a thing, they have no way of observing that thing, and there is no way for those observations to ever affect people's daily lives and the workings of society. Which is why people were just constantly jumping off buildings until Isaac Newton defined gravity.

 

[Surfin Terf]

!??!!!!??!?!

The diagnosis of Down Syndrome was created in the middle of the 19th century, but they didn't discover that it was caused by a chromosomal mutation until the middle of the 20th.

With that logic Joe can identify as having Down Syndrome. I think it would be a lot more believable than him being a woman.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

Unless people know the precise scientific reason behind a thing, they have no way of observing that thing, and there is no way for those observations to ever affect people's daily lives and the workings of society. Which is why people were just constantly jumping off buildings until Isaac Newton defined gravity.

The Sun really did orbit around the Earth until that geophobe Copernicus stated his mission of tearing down Earth Rights.

 

[David Glowie]

We could identify the sun, we all knew we were talking about the same thing when we said "sun/soleil/Sonne" etc, and we knew it was hot before we knew anything about nuclear fusion.

 

[Trianon]

Joe was quoted extensively in this piece.

link | archive

Cancel culture? Trans-inclusive writers say they face abuse and censorship​

Students and academics say they are bullied and threatened with legal action for opposing ‘gender critical’ views
By Sasha Baker

Here are the Lavery parts.

[Christa] Peterson is not the only researcher into ‘gender critical’ academics who has felt pressured by a British university to soften their academic work on the subject.

Grace Lavery, a professor of English at the University of California, Berkeley, gave a talk in 2022 at University College London (UCL) about what she called “the mortal threat to academic freedom in the United Kingdom that has been mounted in recent years… by an alliance composed of the gender critical movement and the managerial class of administrators that govern the UK [higher education] sector.”

The threat, she argues, is so great, partly because “the GC movement sees students as obstacles to be silenced, either directly or by the abuse of legal instruments”.

When the editors of Think Pieces, an in-house journal at UCL, asked Lavery to produce a written version of her talk, she was happy to oblige – but started to become concerned when, months after she submitted an article, it had not appeared. Lavery understood editors feared they could face legal action for running the piece as was, something UCL appeared to confirm when we asked about the article, telling openDemocracy that it “must carefully take other factors into account when publishing articles including the risk of legal action against the institution”.

Lavery instead published the article on her blog in June. “It was the first time I’d ever heard of university administration actually intervening in the normal course of publication of work,” she said.

UCL added it was “firmly committed to ensuring that free and open discussion can take place in an atmosphere of tolerance for different viewpoints”.

For Lavery, the issue is fundamentally one of academic freedom. “It’s pretty difficult to actually publish work that engages the gender critical movement on any level whatsoever,” she said. “They have almost a monopoly within academic philosophy.”

archive


archive








The Sally Hines that Joe replied to in the "hush the fuck up" tweet went after a junior colleague who published an expose on feminist academia, and Joe was endorsing this with his reply. When a poster confronted him with the context, he slunked away.


archive



More debunking of Joe's victimhood.



Squirreling away.

archive

He posted this in the middle as some kind of flex.

Spoiler: What I see

Someone posted this excerpt from Please Miss in one of the X reply threads, and I wish I was incapable of sight. Warning: NSFL.

 

[FarmVille]

The divine intervention of God himself could not create a filter strong enough to hide that 5 o’clock shadow

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

While discussing how cruel it is that people are opposed to researching wombs for men, Joe comes down on the side of Dr. Frankenstein: "I guess I'm entirely unfussed about the 'integrity' of dead bodies."

What an r-slur. He has no idea how badly this approach would affect the limited organ supply. It's already sociopathic enough to have no respect for the deceased but using cadaver wombs for experimental transplant without explicit consent will make people withdraw consent and living people with medically necessary organ transplant needs will suffer. You'd think he'd know some basic shit about the sacredness of protecting the dead in human cultures but I guess he thinks he's transcended that bc atheism or something.

Joe: "TERFs use English slang to disorient us!"
Edel: "It's Irish slang too. I'm Irish."
Joe: "Yes, TERFs avoid using Americanisms and words from Greek/Roman antiquity!"
FUCKING WHAT????????

I'm confused what he meant by this.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

So he's now claiming he's a "canceled" transwoman.

I can't wait for him to join up with bicycle cheat Rhys McKinnon, where they can claim their universities silenced them and canceled them simply due to their trans status and for no other reasons whatsoever. "We had tenure and were canceled and can't find other work! This is definitely the fault of the TERFs in charge of government and academia!"

 

[behindyourightnow]

His social position has fallen a long way from its height, even leaving aside his job. The cute popular writer whose social circle he married into is now a sad hunchback who paints Warhammer figures alone in the dark. His book flopped and his agent probably doesn't return his calls. The Substack controversy went out with a whimper, and in the Elon Twitter era no one feels the need to bribe troons anymore. He's irrelevant, but it's more bearable to blame "cancellation" than it is to recognize his own mediocrity.

 

[3MMA]

Someone posted this excerpt from Please Miss in one of the X reply threads, and I wish I was incapable of sight. Warning: NSFL.

This is some of the worst bedroom talk in written form that I’ve ever beheld, & I read at least 20K words a day. Minimum. Won’t go into the maximum but it often exceeds 100K. Did not want to know about Old Mall, munching on Joe’s greasy privates, then kissing his 5 o’ clock shadowed face as her breath smells like gobbled balls, whispering sweet vaginal fantasies in his ear. “I can feel you. The deep hole inside you, I feel it.” Their wannabe lesbo foreplay sounds like a really bad horror of a fanfic.

 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

This whole schtick of "I'm being cancelled for my views" just gives me the impression that yet again, something has gone down at Berkley - I'm guessing his blatant AGP is getting in the way of his work and he's just hyperfocusing on his fetishes and the department won't let that fly, hence he's being "censored". Could Joe be retarded enough to pull a Rhys? I don't think he's that stupid, but AGP seems to led to absolute brainrot.

 

[lemonsolebrother]

“Unpardonably melodramatic c*nt” - possibly the 3 most self-aware words he ever wrote

 

[AirdropShitposts]

For Lavery, the issue is fundamentally one of academic freedom. “It’s pretty difficult to actually publish work that engages the gender critical movement on any level whatsoever,” she said. “They have almost a monopoly within academic philosophy.”

I'm required to somewhat forgive Joe since he's only an English professor, but I'd love for him to let everyone know which of the philosophy journals that publish this kind of thing incessantly have turned him down.

Since I'm familiar though I know what's he actually saying. Philosophy journals, even some of the most faggot ones, almost always allow anyone personally criticized to respond. There are journals that publish nothing but Marxist and Lacanian horseshit that will let Christian conservatives (or whatever) respond if their academic work is criticized. He's afraid they'd publish the response from Stock (or whoever) right after him and ask him to respond to her. And that's getting way too close to a debate.

Even if they might not do it for someone else to protect them, they'd probably do it for Joe because he's insufferable.

 

[Trianon]

I'm required to somewhat forgive Joe since he's only an English professor, but I'd love for him to let everyone know which of the philosophy journals that publish this kind of thing incessantly have turned him down.

Since I'm familiar though I know what's he actually saying. Philosophy journals, even some of the most faggot ones, almost always allow anyone personally criticized to respond. There are journals that publish nothing but Marxist and Lacanian horseshit that will let Christian conservatives (or whatever) respond if their academic work is criticized. He's afraid they'd publish the response from Stock (or whoever) right after him and ask him to respond to her. And that's getting way too close to a debate.

Even if they might not do it for someone else to protect them, they'd probably do it for Joe because he's insufferable.

Interesting... I had assumed he was being sly and talking about "academic" "philosophy" in bestsellers, as that's how he's always described Stock's work. He gets mad that she's not a "real" philosopher or something. But I'll bet you're right this is some posthoc, prehoc rationalization for getting roadblocked on some project he was working on.

Thoughts on AGP

link | archive