Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

One way Disney can salvage the mess they're in now is if they gave Timothy Zahn free reign over any future material regarding Thrawn. As in, full creative freedom, even if he wants to kill Ezra or something. The hype alone would bring the normies back to the seats, a show with Timothy Zahn writing the script and given full creative control. Thrawn's back in the galaxy, the Imperial Remnant has been gathering strength preparing for his return, he now has his own Force-using allies, just let Zahn work his magic and don't restrict him, and you'll at least get the normies to sing Disney's praises again like they did during TFA.

Too bad that'll never happen.

 

[Mr. 0]

Can someone explain to me why whenever The Phantom Menace becomes the center of discussion in this thread people keep making the claim it would've worked better as a TV series?

One way Disney can salvage the mess they're in now is if they gave Timothy Zahn free reign over any future material regarding Thrawn.

Didn't he write a trilogy under Disney that isn't considered as good as the original Thrawn stories?

 

[Godzilla@1989]

I kinda curious to see what would a world look like if George had made Apocalypse Now instead of Coppola. Would he had a bigger meltdown than the production of Star Wars? How would he manage to tard wrangle Marlon Brando?

 

[Smokingpoop]

I can't think of a single franchise that has been raped harder than star wars. Truly so sad to see. The only good things Star Wars related now are the video games and that's handled by EA

 

[Uranus Pink]

Can someone explain to me why whenever The Phantom Menace becomes the center of discussion in this thread people keep making the claim it would've worked better as a TV series?

The framework of TPM needed time to flesh out which in a movie it simply didn't have. For Americans the lead-up to the American War of Independence and American Civil War is pretty similar to what George was trying to say in TPM. But as already repeated said in this he didn't had the writer help he desperately needed. American Civil War have been done as miniseries at least two times Blue and the Grey and more famously North and South being the best known example. Which shown with the right writer(s), director(s) and actors and enough time, people including children will watch "boring AF politics and economics" when you do it right.

Spoiler

 

[Mexican_Wizard_711]

I can't think of a single franchise that has been raped harder than star wars. Truly so sad to see. The only good things Star Wars related now are the video games and that's handled by EA

Star Wars has been doomed since the start, Star Wars is basically Eastern Philosophy as Imagined by a White Liberal Boomer

 

[Ghostse]

Can someone explain to me why whenever The Phantom Menace becomes the center of discussion in this thread people keep making the claim it would've worked better as a TV series?

Not a series, a mini-series.

The reason is because Phantom Menace had a lot of background to the central plot about the lead up to the Trade Federation blockading Naboo regarding piracy and the merchant guilds being left to fend for themselves by arming up, and then once peace was established the Republic saying "Oh great, shit is all calm now thanks. Now we can collect lots of taxes".

TPM's outline is a solid story, but it falls down a lot in the execution and not just because Jar-jar. Partly because it had a lot going on, and lot of stops it made, meaning we don't get a real solid feel for any of them. You just ping pong around. George had enough background material you could do a mini-series, let the set up points he was trying to make have room to breathe.
in broad strokes:
Episode for background and setting up the cast & betrayal. Why Trade Federation feels justified in their blockade, why the jedi are dispatched to resolve it, who the principals are why we care.
Episode for escape and the Naboo invasion.
Episode for NAboo escape and Tatooine arrival
Pod racing episode on Tatooine
Senate Episode
Naboo Liberation two-parter.

while sprinkling the background political manuevering through out.
This would have primed audiences for Episode I that was about cool space action and not awkward 9 year olds flirting and meetings about tax rates.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I can't think of a single franchise that has been raped harder than star wars. Truly so sad to see. The only good things Star Wars related now are the video games and that's handled by EA

Not really. There are worse fates than what happened to Star Wars. Hey, at least Disney attempts to listen to the fans. Granted, most of those fans are TCW fanboys or Andor fanboys, but there's at least the attempt to make a connection. Other franchises like Warhammer 40K or He-Man have the writers openly attacking the fans or the products being jacked up in price to the point where it's borderline extortion.

Besides, there's still tons of good SW stuff. Go buy the SW collection on Steam, for instance, and you'll have years' worth of good SW content in the form of old video games. Or heck, just read some old books. Disney made things easy by labeling them all as "Legends", so you can tell which ones were made in the good old days.

Can someone explain to me why whenever The Phantom Menace becomes the center of discussion in this thread people keep making the claim it would've worked better as a TV series?

Because it could've worked as a TV series better than as a film. Heck, just keep the film as it is, but have a TV series flesh out each major character. Like have one episode where Qui-Gon Jinn and Dooku work together on a case, and Qui-Gon is promoted and allowed to have a Padawan, and he picks Obi-Wan Kenobi. Or have another episode where Sidious' machinations kill off a large number of Trade Federation bosses, allowing his patsy Nute Gunray to become the Viceroy of the Trade Federation. Then you can have the film be the season finale to this TV series.

Didn't he write a trilogy under Disney that isn't considered as good as the original Thrawn stories?

My point exactly. Give Zahn some room, he can work some magic.

 

[Mr. 0]

The reason I ask is to learn why it keeps happening in this thread, it's like an infinite loop. Something similar has happened whenever the plot of the sequel trilogy comes up and people keep saying how they would've done the whole thing differently.

And of this post I just saw the page number this thread is currently at, which kind of helps answer my question.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

For anyone clinging to the idea that Timothy Zahn will somehow save Star Wars or other such nonsense...he's publicly expressed in the last month how he's eager to incorporate the First Order and even Snoke into his novels.

American Civil War have been done as miniseries at least two times Blue and the Grey and more famously North and South being the best known example.

North and South is one of the best things to ever happen to television, and probably my favorite TV show of all time. I actually discovered right around the time Disney Star Wars had burned me into seeking out alternative entertainment.

If anyone by some misfortune has not seen it, I highly recommend it. The story, soapy romance, period costumes, orchestral score, and battle scenes make it a phenomenal experience, and the closest thing to rival the almighty Gone With The Wind as a Civil War epic. Its cast is stacked with many great actors like Patrick Swayze, Kirsty Alley, Forrest Whittaker, Jonathan Frakes, and even Hollywood Titans like James Stewart and Gone With the Wind's very own Olivia de Hallivand.

On a minor note, I don't know if this show was just made in a different time when plastic surgery was less rampant or what, but the women in this show are simply gorgeous, especially Leslie Ann Down. And all those Southern Belle curls and Victorian corsets don't hurt, either.

God, I wish TV was still good.

 

[2LtMashengo]

and the Imperial kit would probably look obnoxious in live action.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Ain't that the truth.
View attachment 5400239

Gayer than a 90ies yaoi marathon.

 

[jspit2.0]

For anyone clinging to the idea that Timothy Zahn will somehow save Star Wars or other such nonsense...he's publicly expressed in the last month how he's eager to incorporate the First Order and even Snoke into his novels.

You beat me to it. Zahn has tried to tard wrangle Filoni before, to worsening effect.

In Thrawn, he had to take Kallus statement that casualties were unusually high in Thrawn's GA promotion campaign. Zahn created a VERY convoluted explanation that Thrawn was undercut by Governor insertstronkwoman.

He inserted the ridiculous friendship with Anakin Skywalker, Stardust and the kyber crystal shit, and then finished with Thrawn as being suspected for treason in the final book.

Zahn's looking for cash.

North and South is one of the best things to ever happen to television, and probably my favorite TV show of all time. I actually discovered right around the time Disney Star Wars had burned me into seeking out alternative entertainment.

If anyone by some misfortune has not seen it, I highly recommend it. The story, soapy romance, period costumes, orchestral score, and battle scenes make it a phenomenal experience, and the closest thing to rival the almighty Gone With The Wind as a Civil War epic. Its cast is stacked with many great actors like Patrick Swayze, Kirsty Alley, Forrest Whittaker, Jonathan Frakes, and even Hollywood Titans like James Stewart and Gone With the Wind's very own Olivia de Hallivand.

On a minor note, I don't know if this show was just made in a different time when plastic surgery was less rampant or what, but the women in this show are simply gorgeous, especially Leslie Ann Down. And all those Southern Belle curls and Victorian corsets don't hurt, either.

God, I wish TV was still good.

Johnny Cash as John Brown is revelatory. Stuff like that, little cameos that introduce the wild characters.

If anything, the series is generous to the North and its figures, but yes, the depth and understanding of balancing the greater scope with the personal is brilliant.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@jspit2.0 @Mississippi Motorboater
Like I said, if Zahn didn't have to tard wrangle Filoni and could write whatever he wanted with full creative control, things would be different.

Shit, if he was allowed to retcon the Sequels and they had him re-write the First Order and Snoke, and they'd probably be remade into decent villains. He'll probably have Thrawn controlling them, sure, but it would've been a hell of a lot better than what JJ and Rian Johnson did.

But like I said, that's a pipe dream, at most. Filoni has a stranglehold on almost all non-sequel SW content due to the strength of the TCW fanbase, and Tony Gilroy has what's left thanks to Andor.

 

[Adamska]

Not a series, a mini-series.

The reason is because Phantom Menace had a lot of background to the central plot about the lead up to the Trade Federation blockading Naboo regarding piracy and the merchant guilds being left to fend for themselves by arming up, and then once peace was established the Republic saying "Oh great, shit is all calm now thanks. Now we can collect lots of taxes".

TPM's outline is a solid story, but it falls down a lot in the execution and not just because Jar-jar. Partly because it had a lot going on, and lot of stops it made, meaning we don't get a real solid feel for any of them. You just ping pong around. George had enough background material you could do a mini-series, let the set up points he was trying to make have room to breathe.
in broad strokes:
Episode for background and setting up the cast & betrayal. Why Trade Federation feels justified in their blockade, why the jedi are dispatched to resolve it, who the principals are why we care.
Episode for escape and the Naboo invasion.
Episode for NAboo escape and Tatooine arrival
Pod racing episode on Tatooine
Senate Episode
Naboo Liberation two-parter.

while sprinkling the background political manuevering through out.
This would have primed audiences for Episode I that was about cool space action and not awkward 9 year olds flirting and meetings about tax rates.

I genuinely think George directing it purely by himself with absolute control didn't help either. He didn't have people who could dissent and either provide alternatives, or question enough that he looks back, and punches it up after genuine feedback. Combine that with his middling ability to handle actors and some pretty bad decisions on how characterizations should go and you get a flawed set of productions that could've been better.

Also no matter how often the phrases "if you focused on x, it'd be saved" or, "there's real fans who'd support it if y" or "this creator can be good at z if they want to", it doesn't matter. Star Wars is dead and gay; it faced the Dark Side Oblivion due to its greed, and the Rat is to blame.

Fan and casual interaction is shit enough each project basically will lose money unless you make them cheap, all because each show is poorly written and paced. The "fan favorite" characters don't matter because no where near enough people bother actually watching it to make demand viable realistically. I cannot state enough that when you have to put shows from the service on TV for life support, you're fucked. Amd the creators seen as the hope either have to play ball with the incompetent and malicious retards in charge, or lost their touch or ARE ACKSHUALLY malicious retards themselves.

It's dead Jim. The only way you're gonna salvage it is to let it lie fallow for a while.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@Adamska
Salvage it? It died a natural death when the fat man sold it. Everything else is just fanfiction at this point.

As I've said multiple times, Star Wars proper (the movie series) ended in 2005, the EU ended after the sale, and it's best to leave things that way.

 

[The Gene Genie]

The only thing that's canon in my mind is the six movies George made and my fan-fiction. Everything else is fake and gay fanfic written by shittier writers than myself. Simple as.

 

[jspit2.0]

@jspit2.0 @Mississippi Motorboater
Like I said, if Zahn didn't have to tard wrangle Filoni and could write whatever he wanted with full creative control, things would be different.

You didn't mention Filoni in your post though...

One way Disney can salvage the mess they're in now is if they gave Timothy Zahn free reign over any future material regarding Thrawn. As in, full creative freedom, even if he wants to kill Ezra or something. The hype alone would bring the normies back to the seats, a show with Timothy Zahn writing the script and given full creative control. Thrawn's back in the galaxy, the Imperial Remnant has been gathering strength preparing for his return, he now has his own Force-using allies, just let Zahn work his magic and don't restrict him, and you'll at least get the normies to sing Disney's praises again like they did during TFA.

Too bad that'll never happen.

Have you read anything Zahn's written since 2011? Forget Star Wars. His own work? Zahn's thoroughly cowed. Give him total control and he'd produce what he believes the people who run Hollywood want.

Shit, if he was allowed to retcon the Sequels and they had him re-write the First Order and Snoke, and they'd probably be remade into decent villains. He'll probably have Thrawn controlling them, sure, but it would've been a hell of a lot better than what JJ and Rian Johnson did.

That's...kindof what Filoni is trying to do though. Soft tie things together. The problem is your cooking with shit and shit is what your going to get...

@Adamska

Yeah, George has culpability in all of this because it starts with his mismanagement of the franchise including the prequels. It's eye opening to realize Alec Guiness was largely right about George and the Star Wars Fanbase it seems.

 

[Adamska]

Also amusing that there's this delusion current Zahn would be able to do anything correctly. He had is own faults and foibles even before he declined in quality as a writer. And yes, he has declined noticeably as one; there's a reason people only try to remember his works from the 1990s to early 2000s.

There is no salvation to be found for Star Wars. It is more dead and gay than Liberace's wardrobe after being sold off to estates.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@jspit2.0

Have you read anything Zahn's written since 2011? Forget Star Wars. His own work? Zahn's thoroughly cowed. Give him total control and he'd produce what he believes the people who run Hollywood want.

It'd still be a hell of a lot better than what Filoni or JJ could muster.

That's...kindof what Filoni is trying to do though. Soft tie things together. The problem is your cooking with shit and shit is what your going to get...

Filoni isn't retconning the Sequels, though. What I said is that things would be better if Zahn was allowed to retcon the Sequels and have complete creative control.

Even Filoni doesn't have complete creative control, because he has to tie things to the Sequels.

Yeah, George has culpability in all of this because it starts with his mismanagement of the franchise including the prequels. It's eye opening to realize Alec Guiness was largely right about George and the Star Wars Fanbase it seems.

No, the culpability lies with morons like you who blame George for all sorts of stupid shit. The man retired from Star Wars and was just letting the EU authors run it on autopilot while he did non-SW things like Crystal Skull and Red Tails. Then morons like you had to keep whining about how shit Lucas was, that kind of talk wore him down, and then he sold it to Disney because the world could not shut the fuck up about how shit of a director he is. People tend to forget how that really loud anti-Prequels crowd was rather proud of their role in getting George to sell to Disney, and how supportive they were of TFA before TLJ crashed the whole boat.

Alec Guinness merely made fun of the fact that Star Wars sounded like mumbo-jumbo at the time and that the dialogue kept getting changed at certain points; also, the man was NOT a fan of sci-fi at large, so no shit, he'd hate Star Wars. Even the Original Trilogy films that were loved by all, Alec called them "childish and banal." But at the very least, he just aired his grievances and left Lucas alone, he did not whine and bitch and moan about how Lucas' works were the death of cinema.

Meanwhile, you whined that the Ahsoka show is Lucas' fault, when if Lucas remained in charge, Ahsoka would be DEAD before TCW ended. You'd have no Ahsoka show, and Lucas would've kept Dave Filoni in check, because he was capable of telling Filoni "no" for an answer. Remember, Filoni only got back into power because the Sequels flopped, the TCW fanbase was strong, and they made some noise, so to placate them, Disney gave Filoni more power to shape the live-action TV shit, because the people who watched those cartoons as kids were now growing into adulthood. (TCW began in 2008, the Mando show began in 2019) But the main reason why Disney was even allowed to do those dipshit sequels in the first place was because of people like you whining about Lucas and how he fucked up the Prequels.

It's like what the modern version of the Joker said: "You get what you fucking deserve."