- Joined
- Jan 20, 2021
2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict
- Thread starter Enoch Emery
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2023
> be minority citizen in first world country
> enjoy all of the rights of the native/host/majority/dominant/etc population (indisputably at least on paper), with many perks and leg-up schemes granted by the majority population
> look at country where the darker-skinned group A is locked into what is essentially an inescapable blood pact with the lighter-skinned group B, with both groups slowly orbiting around the black hole, nudging closer to the cliff edge every time round
> the only question at this point is who is going to push who into oblivion first
> group B is infinitely more technologically advanced and the very continued existence of group A in any 24-hour time window is wholly at the whim and discretion of group B
> see group B massacre, rape, and burn a village of group B
> that's all it takes to say "damn, I've got to get me some of that"
Would be funny if it weren't so tragic. And common, apparently.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
ViM
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 1, 2019
For a change of pace from the intense discussion over "is that a real dead baby" and "how many dead babies are acceptable collateral damage before you call it a war crime", lets talk about the cold blooded military reality of the situation.
A lot people have a bad habit of assuming that the interests of Hamas and the Palestinians or the Israeli government and your average Israeli citizen are identical.
If you think of this as "2 million strong ghetto dwellers launch hopeless, insane iron age style raid against vastly superior neighbour" then the only explanation is something to do with sandniggers being suicidal.
But while Hamas may be retarded in many ways, they're clearly following the Bin Laden formula to a tee: drive the people into an irrational rage with terrorism, bait the government into multiple expensive wars to drain its resources and credibility and use the inevitable atrocities to overthrow the secular dictatorships and monarchies across the region. In the short run, Bin Laden looked like a retard hiding in a cave for picking a fight that got his Taliban patrons wiped off the map. But in the long run America wasted trillions of dollars, thousands of soldiers' lives (tens of thousands counting maimings and suicides) and created a chaos vacuum that ultimately empowered Jihadists and the Iranians. After twenty years of American occupation the Taliban ended up with more territory and a stronger grip on power than they started with.
Hamas isn't just sitting in those apartment buildings getting airstruck and going "shit, we didn't consider that the Israelis have superior airpower". Their top leaders are relaxing in Qatar and Iran enjoying the carnage on TV and the top functionaries in Gaza are in the miles of tunnel networks built deep into the bedrock. Their income and power isn't derived from Gaza so they don't give a shit if the IDF flattens every high rise on the strip and they aren't dependent on Gazan tax dollars so they only stand to benefit from civilian casualties which they can use to drive Arabs into a frenzy, or at least prevent any kind of diplomatic rapprochement with Israel. So long as the IDF doesn't literally gas every single Palestinian the survivors will inevitably be highly motivated to join Hamas, so there's another win for them. Some may think that if Israel is just super brutal and doesn't care about civilian casualties that they can therefore take out Hamas with ease but this is wrong.
Case in point, look at 2nd Grozny. The Russians didn't care about civilian casualties and would flatten anything that even looked like a defensive position yet they still suffered thousands of casualties. This is because a flattened building does not magically transform into a flat plain suitable for driving tanks over but thanks to conservation of mass becomes a mountain of debris which can hide guerillas or defensive emplacements. The Russian strategy was to hammer a target with explosives, then send in expendable Chechen loyalist shock troops to see if anyone was still shooting back, return to shelling the area if the cannon fodder get shot, rinse and repeat. Since then the rise of cheap and effective weapons like drones have only increased the cost to take a city. For example in Mariupol the Russians had the city totally surrounded while the defenders had minimal preparation to stockpile supplies and yet they fought for almost 3 months, inflicted serious losses on the attackers and only surrendered when they ran out of water. In the various sieges of urban areas in the Ukraine war it's exactly the same: even with overwhelming superiority in firepower you're basically guaranteed to take serious losses because as that old /pol/ post said, you can't take a city with nothing but drones, airstrikes and artillery, you need infantry to actually secure an area and clear out the enemy.
Historically while the IDF has been exceptional when it comes to air, artillery and even tanks they've had a pretty bad record when it comes to close quarters urban combat and they have a very low tolerance of casualties. The opening of the war in Lebanon back in 2006 looked pretty similar to this: Hezbollah kidnapped an Israeli, then Israel obliterated southern Lebanon with airstrikes and artillery. But when the Israelis tried advancing on the ground they were repeatedly driven back by Hezbollah defenses and by fighters using their tunnel network to pop up behind the IDF and ambush them. After taking a few hundred casualties the IDF gave up and ended up handing over a thousand prisoners in exchange for one low ranking soldier (this is why Hamas went so hard for hostages, by the way). In Gaza 2014 they launched some ground attacks against Hamas, lost a dozen soldiers in one ambush and decided to stick to airstrikes from then on.
To be fair to the IDF, they're an army that can't afford a war of attrition. Israel has a population of just under 10 million but only 7 million of those are Jews and around a fifth (and growing) are ultra-orthodox Jews who don't serve in the IDF and who live off of tax dollars doing nothing but reading the Torah and making babies. They compensate by conscripting a huge portion of the capable population, something that works for a quick conventional war but that means the economy will take a huge hit if they have to maintain a siege or occupation of Gaza for over a month, let alone the costs of any workers in key industries getting killed or maimed. Credit ratings agencies have already threatened to downgrade Israel and if they seriously plan to eliminate Hamas from Gaza then they almost certainly will. In the absolute best case scenario it would take at least a month and thousands of casualties minimum. If Hamas is really prepared or the IDF fucks up then it could take several months, and that's not even taking into account the potential intervention of Hezbollah or Iran.
All this to say that while Israel is definitely capable of eliminating Hamas, the price for doing so will be far higher than most normies expect and it could be higher than the Israelis are willing to pay. It's entirely possible that Israel goes full scorched earth through Gaza and still winds up failing to drive out Hamas.
A lot people have a bad habit of assuming that the interests of Hamas and the Palestinians or the Israeli government and your average Israeli citizen are identical.
If you think of this as "2 million strong ghetto dwellers launch hopeless, insane iron age style raid against vastly superior neighbour" then the only explanation is something to do with sandniggers being suicidal.
But while Hamas may be retarded in many ways, they're clearly following the Bin Laden formula to a tee: drive the people into an irrational rage with terrorism, bait the government into multiple expensive wars to drain its resources and credibility and use the inevitable atrocities to overthrow the secular dictatorships and monarchies across the region. In the short run, Bin Laden looked like a retard hiding in a cave for picking a fight that got his Taliban patrons wiped off the map. But in the long run America wasted trillions of dollars, thousands of soldiers' lives (tens of thousands counting maimings and suicides) and created a chaos vacuum that ultimately empowered Jihadists and the Iranians. After twenty years of American occupation the Taliban ended up with more territory and a stronger grip on power than they started with.
Hamas isn't just sitting in those apartment buildings getting airstruck and going "shit, we didn't consider that the Israelis have superior airpower". Their top leaders are relaxing in Qatar and Iran enjoying the carnage on TV and the top functionaries in Gaza are in the miles of tunnel networks built deep into the bedrock. Their income and power isn't derived from Gaza so they don't give a shit if the IDF flattens every high rise on the strip and they aren't dependent on Gazan tax dollars so they only stand to benefit from civilian casualties which they can use to drive Arabs into a frenzy, or at least prevent any kind of diplomatic rapprochement with Israel. So long as the IDF doesn't literally gas every single Palestinian the survivors will inevitably be highly motivated to join Hamas, so there's another win for them. Some may think that if Israel is just super brutal and doesn't care about civilian casualties that they can therefore take out Hamas with ease but this is wrong.
Case in point, look at 2nd Grozny. The Russians didn't care about civilian casualties and would flatten anything that even looked like a defensive position yet they still suffered thousands of casualties. This is because a flattened building does not magically transform into a flat plain suitable for driving tanks over but thanks to conservation of mass becomes a mountain of debris which can hide guerillas or defensive emplacements. The Russian strategy was to hammer a target with explosives, then send in expendable Chechen loyalist shock troops to see if anyone was still shooting back, return to shelling the area if the cannon fodder get shot, rinse and repeat. Since then the rise of cheap and effective weapons like drones have only increased the cost to take a city. For example in Mariupol the Russians had the city totally surrounded while the defenders had minimal preparation to stockpile supplies and yet they fought for almost 3 months, inflicted serious losses on the attackers and only surrendered when they ran out of water. In the various sieges of urban areas in the Ukraine war it's exactly the same: even with overwhelming superiority in firepower you're basically guaranteed to take serious losses because as that old /pol/ post said, you can't take a city with nothing but drones, airstrikes and artillery, you need infantry to actually secure an area and clear out the enemy.
Historically while the IDF has been exceptional when it comes to air, artillery and even tanks they've had a pretty bad record when it comes to close quarters urban combat and they have a very low tolerance of casualties. The opening of the war in Lebanon back in 2006 looked pretty similar to this: Hezbollah kidnapped an Israeli, then Israel obliterated southern Lebanon with airstrikes and artillery. But when the Israelis tried advancing on the ground they were repeatedly driven back by Hezbollah defenses and by fighters using their tunnel network to pop up behind the IDF and ambush them. After taking a few hundred casualties the IDF gave up and ended up handing over a thousand prisoners in exchange for one low ranking soldier (this is why Hamas went so hard for hostages, by the way). In Gaza 2014 they launched some ground attacks against Hamas, lost a dozen soldiers in one ambush and decided to stick to airstrikes from then on.
To be fair to the IDF, they're an army that can't afford a war of attrition. Israel has a population of just under 10 million but only 7 million of those are Jews and around a fifth (and growing) are ultra-orthodox Jews who don't serve in the IDF and who live off of tax dollars doing nothing but reading the Torah and making babies. They compensate by conscripting a huge portion of the capable population, something that works for a quick conventional war but that means the economy will take a huge hit if they have to maintain a siege or occupation of Gaza for over a month, let alone the costs of any workers in key industries getting killed or maimed. Credit ratings agencies have already threatened to downgrade Israel and if they seriously plan to eliminate Hamas from Gaza then they almost certainly will. In the absolute best case scenario it would take at least a month and thousands of casualties minimum. If Hamas is really prepared or the IDF fucks up then it could take several months, and that's not even taking into account the potential intervention of Hezbollah or Iran.
All this to say that while Israel is definitely capable of eliminating Hamas, the price for doing so will be far higher than most normies expect and it could be higher than the Israelis are willing to pay. It's entirely possible that Israel goes full scorched earth through Gaza and still winds up failing to drive out Hamas.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2021
I wish the Jews would give me some "iron dome" if you catch my drift.
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid
This will all end in tears, I just know it.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2015
Hamas aren't even smart enough to keep human shields, they literally just brought them back to headquarters to torture & kill them.
This means three things, 1) they have no bargaining chip whatsoever, 2) they've proven themselves total, unrepentant, coombrained, bloodlusting savages that can't restrain themselves at all whatsoever and 3) there is zero reason to show restraint toward Hamas whatsoever.
Peak barbarian.
If Israel weren't going for total war tactics before, they are now. Time to let loose siege-master Will Sherman and cry "HAVOC!"
It's all ogre now.
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- Nov 21, 2022
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2022
I bet dear old dad didn't think too hard about "say it to their faces" if he called his bluff and started calling them dirty kikes from his truck's window.
What a pussy. Both of them. The kid for not having enough of a sack to call his pussy dad's bluff, and the dad for being so much of a pussy as to not just slap the shit out of his son for being a wignat faggot.
King George III
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 13, 2022
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
So, how was your Global Day of Jihad? This is what happens when you announce your plans for mayhem well in advance.
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- Nov 22, 2021
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
@ViM
there is always the option of a slow siege, to simply starve them out without throwing soldiers into the meat grinder. keeps the casualties lower.
it doesn't look like that's what israel is going for though. we'll see how effective their ground invasion ends up being.
there is always the option of a slow siege, to simply starve them out without throwing soldiers into the meat grinder. keeps the casualties lower.
it doesn't look like that's what israel is going for though. we'll see how effective their ground invasion ends up being.
Victory Leo
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
Is Allah sending fucking aliens now to aid his sandniggers of Gaza?
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2018
I mean, I'm hoping that's the plan, but Israel decides anything living above that line is now forfeit, and artillery/airstrikes wreck the shit out of everything
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2020
You may think you hate the talmuds enough, but you don't
Maori Kiwifruit Growers
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
Great Podcast about what is going on. These guys are intel professionals.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2016
Food $2 million
Roads $1.5 million
Civil infrastructure $8 million
Fireworks $360 million
Electricity $1.3 million
Some country who is good at the economy please help me budget this, our people are starving
Gaza is like that one friend who's always "broke" yet somehow has a new tattoo every month.
Victory Leo
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
you forgot rockets, $1.8 billion
ViM
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 1, 2019
True, though they'd be trading fewer casualties for a much longer length of mobilization (Hamas has been stocking up those tunnels for years after all) and all the economic costs that go along with that.
Plus, Israelis want blood so while I'm sure the IDF would prefer a siege the public and politicians will demand an assault. Netanyahu already promised a ground attack and he'd look weak if he called it off now.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2019
Finally an opinion with nuance from someone that actually knows what they're talking about.