2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

Catch The Rainbow said:
USA is pressuring Israel to delay the invasion because more hostages can be released and Israel agreed to hold off according to Bloomberg


After initially resisting a delay in what officials said would be a massive military operation to eradicate Hamas after the attack, Israel agreed under US pressure to hold off, per sources
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This is so fucking retarded. Israel has lost not only the initiative for a ground campaign but also the approval of the rest of the world for it. The longer they delay, the more ‘mistakes’ they’ll make and the more people will turn against them.
 
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footballteam said:
We are now on the Devils page of this thread. Hama's & Hezbollah will start their invasion of the holy land.
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AN/ALR56 said:
Everyone in that list got created/earned relevance in the west by Jews.
Don't you love when the golems revolt against their masters?
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Yea, and that's what's not making any sense at all to me right now. Unless the media spin is intended to divide everyone further. We know US/EU media is nothing but pure propaganda by the industries and corporations to promote their messages (yes, including Zionists but not limited to them either ... sponsored by Pfizer). So why the hell are we seeing so much state propaganda media now propping up Hamas? Is it just a means to create division among both conservatives and liberals (people are split a lot on this conflict on all sides of the political compass).

Maybe Israel does want to go in and wipe them out, and ignored warnings of this attack to gain sympathy, but now they're in a situation where they realize they can't actually go in because they underestimated the amount of arms coming in and their Iron Dome is nearly out of ammo. Maybe this is the next stage of classic US neo-con escalation (Richard Clark said during the Bush era that the leadership wanted to take down 7 countries ... Obama continued down the list with Libya and an attempt at Syria. Is all of this to provoke and set the stage for Iran?)

The media is always lying to us. They're now backing the insane BLM left for Hamas. I do think Israel is a terrible State with a horrifically autocratic government, but I also recognize they have a lot of control over their perception. I also think Hamas did commit acts of terrorism. I feel for the Palestinian people, but Islamic culture is never going to raise a Gandhi or MLKing that leads to a four week hunger strike outside the wall.

The coverage just feels like an insane stance for the big media outlets to take. Something weird is going on here. It might be wise to put an event on my calendar a few years from no to go back and visit this thread. I wonder if it will be more clear what the end goals were by then.
 
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George Lucas said:
This is so fucking retarded. Israel has lost not only the initiative for a ground campaign but also the approval of the rest of the world for it. The longer they delay, the more ‘mistakes’ they’ll make and the more people will turn against them.
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yeah regardless of the morals behind plowing Gaza under, if they wanted to get shit done they would have gotten better reception if it had just been total fucking carpet bombing death from above the next day including every magic regenerating hospital and church and just been "whatever."
dragging this out makes it worse for them by the minute unless there's some crazy 6d Chess of like, getting the world to expect literally that Smurfs anti-war PSA, only to actually be limited (by low mid-east standards), but even then they're still gonna get shit for every kid that had a missile launcher under their bed
 
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HootersMcBoobies said:
Yea, and that's what's not making any sense at all to me right now. Unless the media spin is intended to divide everyone further. We know US/EU media is nothing but pure propaganda by the industries and corporations to promote their messages (yes, including Zionists but not limited to them either ... sponsored by Pfizer). So why the hell are we seeing so much state propaganda media now propping up Hamas? Is it just a means to create division among both conservatives and liberals (people are split a lot on this conflict on all sides of the political compass).

The media is always lying to us. They're now backing the insane BLM left for Hamas. I do think Israel is a terrible State with a horrifically autocratic government, but I also recognize they have a lot of control over their perception. I also think Hamas did commit acts of terrorism. I feel for the Palestinian people, but Islamic culture is never going to raise a Gandhi or MLKing that leads to a four week hunger strike outside the wall.
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To have a career in the media especially in the last decade you cannot be an independent thinker. Public figures have been trained through BLM, GamerGate, Covid, Jan. 6, Ukraine and so many other "current things" that they must follow the consensus in their field or be ostracized and destroyed.

A critical mass of people within the media and government are following the Hamas narrative because they are giving the correct "anti-racist, anti-colonial" virtue signals. Not to mention the way that videos of brown people killing white people make them salivate. Therefore, large parts of the media apparatus not under direct Jewish supervision are now howling for the blood of Israelis.

If you want to know what they're thinking, the answer is that they aren't thinking. They're going with the flow. They've been carefully trained to do that or else be ruined.
 
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Ghostse said:
Also at the time that Exodus would have been compiled, Egypt and Israel were political rivals so it might be just propaganda.
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It's likely a combination of propaganda and just a creation myth.

Basically the creation myth of the Israelites goes a bit like this. After the flood, Noah's sons would go on to become the fathers of all nations. Ham went into Noah's tent and saw him passed out drunk and nude, and goes and tells his brothers, which shamed Noah. Japeth and Shem went in and covered him up without looking.

Japeth basically fathered white people and Shem basically fathered the Semetic peoples. Ham fathered various African peoples like Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans etc and also the Canaanites, the Philistines and the Babylonians. When Noah woke up, he was super pissed off at Ham, so he cursed the Hammites and specifically Ham's son Canaan. Shem and Japeth got blessings - Shem got to know his descendants would have a special relationship with God, while Japeth got to "dwell in the tents of Shem".

One of Shem's great-grandsons (Shem -> Arpachshad -> Kesed -> Ur) founded Ur of the Chaldeas, although the Chaldeans kept getting occupied by Babylonians - who were some of those nasty Ham's descendants.
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Years later, a descendent of Ur, Abraham, was a really good guy who was very loyal to God, so God made him a deal that he'd become the father of a great nation. Part of this covenant was that Abraham had to cut off his and everyone else's foreskins to show his devotion. Anyway, Abraham has a son called Ishamel with his wife Sarah's Egyptian (Hammite) servant, but he eventually makes it to the promised land of Canaan, which is where the extra-cursed Canaanites live. God does a miracle and his 90 year old wife bears him a son, Isaac, which prompts Sarah to banish Ishmael and his mother to the wilderness because she sees Ishmael as a threat to her son's inheritance.

Isaac becomes heir to the covenant, while Ishmael doesn't, but God gives him a covenant-lite so his descendants keep cutting their foreskins off and he gets to father a great nation, just not the great nation of Israel, and so he is from whom all the Arabs are descended. Isaac renames himself Israel and has two sons, Jacob and Esau. Esau, whose nickname was Edom (red, because he had red hair) is the eldest and supposed to inherit the covenant but he was greedy and impulsive and stupid and didn't value God's blessing. Jacob was a sneaky backstabber. So Jacob made impulsive Esau trade away his birthright in exchange for some lentils because Esau was hungry, and then tricked Isaac/Israel into giving him his blessing. Jacob fathered the 12 tribes of Israel, while Esau fathered the Edomites.

There's a pattern here - the peoples that the ancient Israelites had a vendetta against (Babylonians, Egyptians, Philistines, Cannanites) all had inherited a divine curse on their bloodlines. Some of the other Semetic peoples they encountered had missed out on their divine blessing by being somehow tainted (descendants of Ishmael) or unworthy (descendants of Edom). As the chosen people, it was fine to drive the cursed people out of their lands; "I will fix your boundary from the Red Sea [Yam Suph] to the sea of the Philistines, and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates; for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you will drive them out before you". This mindset has fed into some aspects of Zionism.

The evidence suggests that the Israelites most likely emerged from a population within Canaan, or they were a group of people who moved from Mesopotamia to Canaan, or a bit of both (a group of immigrants who didn't assimilate and kept their specific proto-Jewish religion, but intermarried with Canaanites). Genetic evidence seems to back this up, as DNA from Canaanite remains seems to indicate a continuity with local groups, including Arabs and local Jewish groups.

One of Jacob's sons, Joseph, was the favourite and kept having dreams he'd rule over everyone (this is the Joseph-and-his-technicolour-dreamcoat guy). His eleven other brothers sell him to an Ishmaelite (Arab) slaver and then pretend he got eaten by a wild animal. While a slave in Egypt, Joseph ends up doing a bunch of miracles and saved Egypt from famine and the Pharoah puts him in charge of running Egypt. Meanwhile there's a famine in Canaan so Jacob, his eleven other sons and their families go to Egypt, since Joseph's doing alright for himself now. They end up reproducing massively. Then there's a new pharoah and he doesn't like how many Israelites he has in his country, so he enslaves them all. Remember, descendent of Ham and all that. This is where Moses comes in, to save them from the Egyptians, and eventually after the miraculous slaughtering of firstborns except-for-Jews-who-marked-their-doors-with-blood-so-God-wouldn't-kill them (Passover), they flee across the Red Sea out of Egyptian territory; seemingly from Sinai across the Aqaba Strait into what is now Saudi Arabia.

They head up to the land of Milk and Honey and send some spies in. Two of them say it's great (Joshua and Caleb) while the rest claimed it's great, but the people there are well fortified and scary and they don't think they can defeat the Canaanites, so the Israelites try to get a new leader. For this loss of faith, God punishes them by telling all the adults they're not allowed into Israel except for Joshua and Caleb, so they're going to wander the desert for 40 years until everyone except Joshua and Caleb is dead and then their children and grandchildren etc can enter the promised land. During the wonderings in the desert they get various divine revelations that form the Old Testament/Torah. At one point Moses goes up Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments, and the Israelites get bored and ask Moses's brother to make them a new, better God that won't make them do this stupid stuff, so he melts all their jewellery and makes it into a golden calf. God gets so angry he wants to destroy the Israelites but Moses reminds him of the covenant, so Moses goes back down, destroys the golden calf, and then gets loyal Israelites to kill the non loyal ones.

There is no evidence whatsoever for a large population of Israelites in Egypt, or that a large population of Israelites left Egypt and wandered around for 40 years. It's possible this is a mythologised memory about the Hyksos, a group of Semetic people that largely seem to have come from Canaan and ruled over part of Egypt as Pharaohs for a while, before eventually being toppled by the native Egyptian population - at which point a group may have returned to Canaan after travelling through a desert. Also at this point the type of monotheistic religion the Jews would later follow didn't exist - instead they followed either the ancient Canaanite religion or the precursor to Judaism, Yahwism.

The desert mythology serves a purpose because it reminds followers that they must be obedient; while they have been rewarded with the Promised Land, that promise can be revoked if they're not loyal enough.

One of the remaining spies, Joshua, leads the Israelites across the river Jordan into Canaan (Moses dies shortly beforehand as that wasn't part of the deal). God commanded the Israelites to slaughter all the peoples in that lands, and very specifically all of them, no mercy:

Deuteronomy 7:1-2: When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are greater and more numerous than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 20:16-18: However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

The land was then divided among the 12 tribes of Israel (each one descended from one of Jacob's sons):
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...except for the Tribe of Levi (Moses's tribe) who had a special role as priests and servants of God, because they were the only tribe who didn't try worshipping a golden calf, so they got bits of each land.

There were many heated battles against the heavily fortified cities of Canaan, with their advanced weaponry and iron chariots, with Joshua famously blowing a "trumpet" (shofar, instrument made from a horn) leading to the power of the Israelite voice to make the big city walls collapse. However the Israelites were not quite as thorough in destroying the Canaanites as God had told them to be. Some of the tribes made peace treaties with the Canaanites or took them as slaves... and then got corrupted by them, and started worshipping the Canaanite Gods like Baal and Ashtaroth and being sinful and corrupt.

Because they kept being sinful and bad Jews, God let people like the Philistines, the Moabites, the Midianites and the Ammonites (...all of them children of Ham, Noah's cursed son) oppress the Israelites. He did give them a hand, though, in the form of Judges (as in God's judges) who would fight off their oppressors usually in return for some sort of horrible vow or weird covenant. Samson is the most famous of these. After that the Israelites, who were still being corrupted and lead astray by the various people they were supposed to wipe out, decided they wanted a king to unite them instead of trusting God to be their king. He basically said "okay, but it will cost you".

The first King was King Saul, but he disobeyed God by sparing some of the Amelekites and also keeping some of their livestock instead of slaughtering them. The second one was King David, who expanded his kingdom up to the Euphraties and also took land off the Philistines while making surrounding kingdoms his vassals. However he cheated on his wife with Bathsheba so fell out of God's favour. His illegitimate son with Bathsheba, Solomon, got to be the next King, and he built the first temple in Jerusalem but then took up with foreign women who lured him astray with sin and worshipping other Gods. God said when he died he'd break up the Kingdom of Israel/Samaria - there followed was a civil war and thus 10 tribes split into Israel (following Jeroboam) and 2 tribes into Judah, following Solomon's son with an Ammonite (Hammite), Rehoboam.
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Apparently nobody learned any lessons so because Israel didn't have Jerusalem and Solomon's temple any more, Jeroboam built some golden calves for the Israelites to worship and meanwhile in Judah -

1 Kings 14: And Judah did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins that they committed, more than all that their fathers had done. For they also built for themselves high places and pillars and Asherim on every high hill and under every green tree, and there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the Lord drove out before the people of Israel.

There's no archaeological evidence to show in this era that there were any fortified cities in the region that got defeated. Jericho had fortified walls but had been abandoned centuries prior. The main way they can tell Iron Age Israelite archaeological sites apart from other ruined Iron Age farming villages was the absence of pig bones. So again, evidence points towards the Israelites being a group who emerged in Canaan, either locally or as a result of an insular ethnic group moving to Canaan from Mesopotamia; there was no great invasion.

We do still see this idea that being improperly pious, showing your enemies any form of mercy or cavorting with foreigners means you lose out on some of God's covenant. It's after this point that things start getting a bit more historical - there's not really any compelling archaeological evidence for a united Kingdom of Israel or a King Solomon, but the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah definitely existed (likely emerging separately from each other) from around 900 BC. Also you'll notice that the Kingdom of Israel gets referred to as Samaria sometimes, and Samaria was its capital. The post-Assyrian Samaritans are the ones you encounter later on in the Bible, and modern day Samaritans argue they're the descendants of one of the lost tribes (and genetic analysis backs them up).

God gives them a few centuries to try and sort themselves out, but they keep being sinful. Judah actually did a bit better and tried to outlaw idolatry etc while Israel decided to "lean in" to idolatry. God sent a few prophets like Elijah to try and warn them off it, but they ignored it. So he let the Assyrians capture the people in the land of Israel, and take them away to Assyrian captivity. There the Assyrians broke them up, and forced them to submit to new ways of living, and they lost their identities, becoming the ten lost tribes of Israel. Surprisingly the Assyrians, for once, were not descended from Ham, but from Shem; they were descended from Shem's son Ashur (one of Arpachshad's brothers).

Judah persisted but its kings still did evils and lead their people into idolatry, and again God sent prophets like Isiah to tell them to knock it off, but they ignored it. So he let King Nebuchadnezzar conquer Judah; Jerusalem was sacked, Solomon's temple was destroyed and most of the Judeans got taken into bondage in Babylon. God said he'd leave them stuck in Babylon for 70 years as punishment, but promised after 70 years in captivity, he'd make a new covenant with the Judeans.

Jeremiah 25:12 Then it will come to pass, when seventy years are completed, that I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity,’ says the Lord; ‘and I will make it a perpetual desolation. So I will bring on that land all My words which I have pronounced against it, all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah has prophesied concerning all the nations.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 No longer shall they teach one another or say to each other, “Know the Lord,” for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and remember their sin no more.

The Assyrians did capture the Israelites and deport them - there's strong evidence of this, including from the Assyrians themselves; Sargon II (not Sargon of Akkad, he was about two thousand years earlier) bragged about it. There's clear evidence of a lot of resettlement of different peoples in Israel around then (~700BC), in line with the Assyrian policy of resettlement (when they captured lands, they moved people around the empire to break up their identity and make them more Assyrian, but also do things like spread good agricultural practices). A number of Israelites fled to Judah, which is likely when something more recognisable as temple Judaism emerged. The Babylonians did also capture the Judans - there's clear evidence for the sacking of Jerusalem and also a significant depopulation in the region (~600 BC), plus Nebuchadnezzar brags about it and there's a clear Jewish presence in Babylon at this stage. About 70 years later the Persians conquer the Babylonians, and the Persian King Cyrus was ok with letting the Jews return to Babylon.

At this point you're seeing another reason why it was important for Jews to avoid assimilation when in strange lands, lest they end up like the 10 lost tribes of Israel. The covenant is a point of disagreement between Jews and Christians; Christians believe the new covenant basically says when the Messiah Jesus Christ died, he removed the need to follow the laws of Moses and also opened up his love to all the peoples of the world (remember how Japeth's descendants could "dwell in the tents of Shem"). Jews... don't, and think the covenant can't be fulfilled as there's not been a Messiah yet, and also it only applies to Jews.

Most of the Jews return to Judah, which is now a vassal of the Achaemenid Empire. They rebuilt the temple; the Samaritans wanted to help and the Judeans told them no because they didn't count as Jews, so then the Samaritans spread discord among the various non-Jewish peoples of the region who lived there, and then the Jews had to face persecution from other races. After this Judea got invaded by Alexander the Great and became part of the Ptolemaic empire, and then the Greek Seleucids. The Seleucid Empire tried to make the Jews stop being Jewish and turn the Second Temple into a temple to Zeus, so the Maccabees ("God's hammer") rose up and overthrew them, and the only non-profaned oil in the temple was only supposed to last one day but lasted eight (thus; Hannukah). Then the Romans came along.

Various sects had emerged at this point - the Pharisees (who were the precursors to Rabbinical Judaism and agreed with an oral Torah; opposed the Romans), the Saducees (who rejected the oral Torah and wanted to just keep doing high Priest things and collab with the Romans), the Essenes (basically the Amish, lived ascetically in the desert and wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls) and the Zealots (offshoots of the Pharisees who wanted to expel the Romans at all costs; while the Pharisees took a "render unto Caesar" approach the Zealots thought paying taxes to Rome was a betrayal of the covenant). Anyway, another rebellion, this one ended badly, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and expelled the Jews from Jerusalem (and then largely from Judea), scattering the Jews across the ends of the Earth.

As for why God allowed this, I think there's a school of thought that the first temple was destroyed as punishment for idolatry, while the second was destroyed as punishment for "sinat chinam" (basically "baseless hatred" but in practice Jew-on-Jew hatred). There's also a theory that its destruction and the scattering of the Jews across the world is to reaffirm the second covenant and they'll return when the Messiah comes. Plus as white people, the Romans were descendants of Japeth and it was prophesised that the sons of Japeth would dwell in Shem's tents, so maybe that's what the prophecy meant, God foretold the Romans would drive the Jews out of the Holy Land and live there until the second covenant is fulfilled.

That leads into third temple, which Jews believe will be built one day when the Messiah returns and that second covenant is fulfilled. Some zealous Israelis are amping up to build it and are even retraining in reconstructed priesthood and animal sacrifice, but the Al-Aqsa Mosque complex is currently in the way. Many Jews think it shouldn't be rebuilt until there's a Messiah. Evangelical Christians want it rebuilt, because the antichrist will go in there and declare himself to be God, which will bring on tribulation.
This is all pretty much factual. Highlights again why Jews can't trust anyone else living in the Holy Land and they all need to be driven out.
It's off topic so I spoilered my ramblings. Basically, anything from King Solomon and before is completely made up, but is the creation myth of the Jewish people. The teachings cast some ethnic groups as inherently cursed and explains why killing all of them without a single one left alive has sometimes been God's will, and the Jews were punished for not completely murdering every single last Canaanite and that's why they lost Israel. It also teaches why Israel needs to be an ethnostate. It also explains how Jews managed to persist as a cohesive ethnicity and religion despite being kicked out of the Holy Land in the 1st Century AD, and that the teachings strongly argue that the Jews are promised to return to the Holy Land.

Knowing what the Bible/Torah says on these things can give an insight into what fringe-Zionists believe (lots of Zionists aren't on that wavelength but the real swivel eyed loons are).
 
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HootersMcBoobies said:
Yea, and that's what's not making any sense at all to me right now. Unless the media spin is intended to divide everyone further. We know US/EU media is nothing but pure propaganda by the industries and corporations to promote their messages (yes, including Zionists but not limited to them either ... sponsored by Pfizer). So why the hell are we seeing so much state propaganda media now propping up Hamas? Is it just a means to create division among both conservatives and liberals (people are split a lot on this conflict on all sides of the political compass).
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Occam's razor applies here. Bibi (and his government) fucked up, and fucked up hard (ignoring the initial warning, forcing the IDF to stand down when they should have gone to red alert), and his initial harsh response was overcompensating for the fact. Now, however, he dug himself into a bigger hole where he HAS to commit, because otherwise his constituents turns on him. But committing means aggravating the already volatile situation, and the IDF probably bluntly told him that going in was going to murder both the army and his career.

EDIT: To add to that, I have a feeling they (the Israeli govt), did not anticipate such a negative response from the traditionally Israeli-friendly mass media. The Arab outrage was always to be expected no matter what they did, but they probably did not count on even the academia backstabbing them to support the sandniggers.
 
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Kane Lives said:
But committing means aggravating the already volatile situation, and the IDF probably bluntly told him that going in was going to murder both the army and his career.
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Bibi's career is over in any case, the damage he's taken is unrecoverable. He's failed as a leader in the most fundamental way and he can't give hawks or doves what they want. And his main reason for bulldozing his way back into office was to stay out of jail for corruption. He can now just count the days until he goes behind bars forever.

The winner in this seems to be the US. With the IDF avoiding an invasion, they can attempt to lower the temperature of the situation. If Israeli factions start blaming each other for the lack of action rather than attacking Arab enemies it may be possible to gradually tone down the hostilities and avoid a war that Israel would demand US support for.
 
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