Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
Drew is keeping his ambitions for Hare modest: https://harelang.org/blog/2023-11-08-100-year-language/, https://archive.is/896LH

Any guesses on what it's going to be?
a) a language with bugger all standard library (like C)
b) a language where nothing broken can ever be removed, so it has shitloads of cruft (like C++)
c) a language where its creator is so divinely inspired, he manages to create something uniquely free of any kind of fault or failing for decades and decades
 
A hundred years? Hare is struggling to get a hundred users, mostly because this
This approach to innovation, and our near-rejection of it as a goal, is innovative in and of itself. If I were to point to one trait of Hare which sets it apart from the rest of the pack, this is it.
is a load of horseshit. The language has absolutely nothing of interest to offer.
 
It looks like it's essentially C with modules and pattern-matching. So modules and pattern-matching are important enough innovations to warrant creating a new language, but any other future innovations, whatever they might be, are going to be ignored. Makes sense.

EDIT: Also, lol at his list of supported OSes:
Screenshot_20231108_182315.png
Windows? What's that?
 
It looks like it's essentially C with modules and pattern-matching. So modules and pattern-matching are important enough innovations to warrant creating a new language, but any other future innovations, whatever they might be, are going to be ignored. Makes sense.
"C but without that one thing that made me MATI, and everything else unfixed" is a common toy language archetype for some reason. It's not hard to minimally improve C and feel good about it, I guess. But even among these languages, Hare is barebones as fuck and has no distinguishing features. Or maybe I should say no good ones, its tagged unions are hilariously fucked in a way I've never seen before in a statically typed language.
Windows? What's that?
Not supporting Windows is intentional:
We have no intention of supporting non-free platforms, but because the language is standardized, a third-party implementation or fork could easily develop Windows or macOS support if desired.
 
It looks like it's essentially C with modules and pattern-matching. So modules and pattern-matching are important enough innovations to warrant creating a new language, but any other future innovations, whatever they might be, are going to be ignored.
"C but without that one thing that made me MATI, and everything else unfixed" is a common toy language archetype for some reason. It's not hard to minimally improve C and feel good about it, I guess.
https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3206985430398054@naggum.net.html
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.lisp/c/ZehOL-B5rIE#ecea40eb1602ce7c
Erik Naggum said:
There is a simple and elegant answer to this question: Just learn Common Lisp well first. New languages are exciting to people who know mostly new languages, so learn an old language before you learn new ones and get out of the maelstrom that will drown you in ever new languages that add nothing at all except some miniscule additional feature from another language that someone needed to make a whole new language to implement because he did not know (Common) Lisp to begin with. A "new" language that differs from the rest of the crop by one or a couple features is proof positive that both what it came from and what it has become are mutations about to die. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of such "languages" that people have invented over the years, for all sorts of weird purposes where they just could not use whatever language they were already using, could not extend it, and could not fathom how to modify its tools without making a whole new language. They never stopped to think about how horribly wasteful this is, they just went on to create yet another language called Dodo, the Titanic, Edsel, Kyoto-agreement...
 
A hundred years? Hare is struggling to get a hundred users, mostly because this

is a load of horseshit. The language has absolutely nothing of interest to offer.
As opposed to Rust version 1.68 that just got certified for aarch64-unknown-none (64 bit ARM bare metal) to the ASIL D standard. If this gets into a common supplier's vehicle accelerator pedal monitoring system for example, it could very easily become a 100 year language.
If you want to use Rust without the risk of "someone" inserting breaking changes or backdoors in the language, check out their source distribution.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Marvin
>Haiku
>Plan 9

So he thinks this is a hobby project and not meant to be a serious language, right. Right?
He's not very forward-thinking when it comes to what makes a 100-year language.
You've gotta go where the users are if you want that mass appeal. Unless you're the kind of person who hates humanity as a whole and thinks everyone else is doing it wrong.
He's falling into the classic trap of the old "everybody's doing it wrong so I will reinvent the wheel and everybody will switch to it suddenly" mentality. The last 5000 people to do this got fucked. Guess what will happen to him?

Generally, when you make a new language, you want it to get the fuck out of the programmer's way and let them solve a problem in peace. This is harder when languages are non-portable and have bad FFIs. There's a reason almost every language you can think of has a mature C FFI and runs on every platform with little to no hassle. So when technological bigots design their language to only run on their OS of choice with their approved languages, people don't use it because they can't even link it with the Win32 DLLs to display dialog boxes without using a compatibility layer and 700 lines of C.

Hare does make a couple of smart choices, however. Programming-language-specific package managers are the scourge of the earth, and simple languages are less painful to work with in general.
 
Last edited:
Back