Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[High-Fructose Corn Syrup]

I think @LORD IMPERATOR has some undiagnosed mental health issues.

 

[klab]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/europe/russia-blogger-morozov-ukraine-avdiivka.html

A pro-war Russian military blogger died on Wednesday, his lawyer said, after the blogger wrote the country’s military pressured him to remove a post exposing the scale of its losses in a recent battle in Ukraine.
This is all to say that a thousand Russians nationals aren't worth that of one of Gonzalo Lira's fingernails.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/europe/russia-blogger-morozov-ukraine-avdiivka.html

A pro-war Russian military blogger died on Wednesday, his lawyer said, after the blogger wrote the country’s military pressured him to remove a post exposing the scale of its losses in a recent battle in Ukraine.
This is all to say that a thousand Russians nationals aren't worth that of one of Gonzalo Lira's fingernails.
View attachment 5760970

Dude looks like a faggot, Jim Sterling of military blogging

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Dude looks like a faggot, Jim Sterling of military blogging

A Russian Jim Sterling wouldn't be that strange, given how their bouts of alcoholism probably makes more than a few people there fat.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Poland knows who to blame.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/poland-warns-us-house-speaker-you-re-to-blame-if-russia-advances-in-ukraine/ar-BB1iWdcA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=2fb7e928f6d24f96a018bb6d2f667597&ei=60

Poland warns US House speaker: you're to blame if Russia advances in Ukraine​

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski on Monday urged U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson to allow a vote on new U.S. aid for Ukraine, saying Johnson would be to blame if the bill failed and Russia advances on the battlefield.

The senior European diplomat's blunt remarks underscored European fears that conservative House Republicans led by Johnson will block supplies of U.S. munitions that Ukraine urgently needs to hold Russian troops at bay.

Ukraine is running short of personnel and ammunition, especially heavy artillery rounds, and it has lost ground in the east after retaking about half of the territory Russia seized in its full-scale invasion in February 2022.
In remarks to the Atlantic Council thinktank, Sikorski said Johnson "has in the past spoken warmly about Ukraine."

"Therefore I’d like him to know that the whole world is watching what he would do and if the supplemental were not to pass and Ukraine was to suffer reversals on the battlefield it will be his responsibility," he continued.

He was referring to a $95 billion funding bill containing $60 billion in security aid for Ukraine that passed the Democratic-controlled Senate this month in a 70-30 bipartisan vote.

Johnson's office did not respond immediately to a request for comment.

The speaker, an ally of former U.S. President Donald Trump, the expected Republican nominee in the November election who opposes more aid for Ukraine, sent the House home on a two-week recess without bringing the measure to a vote.

He told a Feb. 14 party meeting that they would not rubber-stamp the measure being pushed by President Joe Biden, who is expected to face Trump as the Democratic nominee.

Sikorski said he was appealing "personally to Speaker Mike Johnson: please let democracy take its course. Please let's pass this to a vote."

As speaker, Johnson decides what bills are put up for votes. Some Republicans who favor the Ukraine aid say the measure would pass the House if he allowed one.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's "murderous invasion of Ukraine is being aided and abetted by a crime family of dictators," said Sikorski, referring to military aid that Iran and North Korea are providing to Moscow.

Putin's victory in Ukraine, he said, would "invite more thugs onto the world scene, and this will have dire consequences."

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

So basically, their only way to get border security is to fuck with the chances of people fighting for their lives? They just lost my vote.

Welcome to politics 101, enjoy your stay.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Welcome to politics 101, enjoy your stay.

There's playing politics when things are fine, and pussyfooting around when lives are at stake.

I miss 2001 when everyone united to kick Al-Quaeda ass.......

Speaking of ass-kicking, the Abrams tank shows its worth......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-abrams-tank-survives-dramatic-explosion-demonstrating-exceptional-design-safety/ar-BB1iVs88

Ukrainian Abrams tank survives dramatic explosion, demonstrating exceptional design safety​

A video appearing to show a moving Abrams followed by a burning one was most likely captured on cameras from Russian ZALA Lancet ammunition. The initial footage shows an Abrams tank in motion. The subsequent one displays a tank of this type on fire.

A relatively clear still shot provides the most information, displaying the dashboard of the Lancet pilot with a screen that shows a close-up view of the burning tank.

The Ukrainian M1A1SA (Eng. Situational Awareness) Abrams was probably hit in the ammunition storage. This resulted in a large and dramatic explosion, which, most likely, did not cause irreversible destruction to the tank.

Evidence for this includes open hatches, implying that the Abrams crew was able to evacuate. This demonstrates the effectiveness of completely separating the ammunition from the crew.

Advantages of Keeping Ammunition Separate

Shells for the 120-mm cannon are stored in a magazine hidden in a niche at the back of the turret, separated from the combat compartment by a movable armored partition. The partition is only momentarily opened by the loader during shell retrieval.

In case of an ammunition explosion, the impact is directed outside the tank through blowout panels. These specially designed armor elements are blown off during an ammunition storage explosion, allowing for safe energy dispersion.

Unlike Russian tanks (and many Western ones), where an ammunition explosion causes the turret to detach from the hull and often results in the death of the crew, Abrams tanks keep soldiers safe even after the ammo storage is hit. Furthermore, despite the dramatic explosion, the tank mainly suffered minor damage and usually remained repairable.

The absence of ammunition in the crew compartment also means that even if the crew abandons a vehicle, it cannot be wholly destroyed – for instance, by a grenade thrown from a drone through an open hatch. A grenade explosion might wreck the interior but not ignite the ammunition, thus avoiding damage that would render the tank irreparable.

Therefore, if Ukrainians can successfully tow the damaged machine, it is conceivable that - after undergoing repairs, possibly in Poland, where an Abrams tanks repair base is being established - the tank could return to service in no time.

Ukraine received 31 M1A1SA (Eng. Situational Awareness) tanks from the United States. The SA is an upgrade package developed a few years ago for an older version of the Abrams, designed to use these tanks under the conditions at the start of an armed conflict.

Upgrades include advanced thermal imaging, a Blue Force Tracking situational awareness system, a new FCEU fire control system, a remotely controlled gunner's station, and stabilization for the commander's observation turret.

Tanks used by the American military also feature improved armor. However, this element was removed from the tanks supplied to Ukraine and replaced with armor modules without depleted uranium.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

There's playing politics when things are fine, and pussyfooting around when lives are at stake.

Politics doesn't stop just because a war is on. On the contrary, that is when it kicks into high gear.

 

[The Gene Genie]

Whose lives? Not American lives. I feel for the Ukrainians and I sympathize with their desire to stop the invasion of their country but I don't see why our politicians should emphasize the Ukrainians over our own country.

 

[Abowaffen]

I don't see why our politicians should emphasize the Ukrainians over our own country.

False choice. No reason we can't emphasize both.

 

[SBG]

Legalized immigration is more than fine. The people wanting no immigration forget that their forefathers were once migrating peasants too.

Feel like it's getting too off topic to get into the pros and cons of immigration. Mostly chiming in about the topic to point out what to look for as a sign that a bill actually would be passed.

At the moment, a bill passing depends on those immigration reform republicans in the House being placated which means the bill would likely need something to help lessen immigration.

 

[Harbinger of Kali Yuga]

Whose lives? Not American lives. I feel for the Ukrainians and I sympathize with their desire to stop the invasion of their country but I don't see why our politicians should emphasize the Ukrainians over our own country.

Because a world where Russia keeps gaining power is a bad one for our children. Everyone on the farms lacks perspective--they're annoyed by particular things, most namely trannies, so they seek solutions to that problem but like everyone else then ignore or don't care about things as bad or worse. Political corruption rots a nation and halts its progress, it's the worst thing ever, and people on KF would gladly trade the corruption of a third world nation with tranny tolerance, and that's a mistake. Political corruption ruins a nation for generations and restricts economic mobility. That's not to say the LGBT shit isn't bad, but you're not getting a good deal in this exchange.

 

[The Gene Genie]

False choice. No reason we can't emphasize both.

But that's the point. They make a deal and move forward with it. Them offering a disingenuous immigration bill that is just as bad as the status quo so they can keep dumping money to the Ukrainians is not solving both problems or a compromise. I don't think we can't emphasize both either, but I think the priority should lie with OUR people and OUR country first and foremost. We're in the shit and it's getting worse and I feel like arming another nation in their own private war is something of a luxury in times of good, not when a nation is on the brink of crisis.

Because a world where Russia keeps gaining power is a bad one for our children. Everyone on the farms lacks perspective--they're annoyed by particular things, most namely trannies, so they seek solutions to that problem but like everyone else then ignore or don't care about things as bad or worse. Political corruption rots a nation and halts its progress, it's the worst thing ever, and people on KF would gladly trade the corruption of a third world nation with tranny tolerance, and that's a mistake. Political corruption ruins a nation for generations and restricts economic mobility. That's not to say the LGBT shit isn't bad, but you're not getting a good deal in this exchange.

I don't really agree, frankly. I don't see how Russia/Ukraine winning or losing affects my children in the long term. I'm not Ukrainian, or Russian, or Eastern European. Political corruption is a rot on a nation, but I don't see how the political corruption of two Post-Soviet entities on another continent an ocean away is our problem when there's ample political, social, and economic corruption in our own nation.

 

[Vince McMahon]

but I don't see how the political corruption of two Post-Soviet entities on another continent an ocean away is our problem when there's ample political, social, and economic corruption in our own nation.

Expansionist regimes, what do they usually do? Do they stay "in their lane" or is there something else they would do, following a win in Eastern Europe?

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Very organic neutroler concern posting from literal who tourists about the US border in a thread with regular posters dedicated to the pro-Ukraine side.

Two Su-34s have reportedly been shot down today (source 1 & 2):

These aviation loses might be a result of the Russian advance and capture of Stepove and Sieverne villages west of Avdiyivka (source 1 & 2):

 

[SBG]

I don't really agree, frankly. I don't see how Russia/Ukraine winning or losing affects my children in the long term. I'm not Ukrainian, or Russian, or Eastern European. Political corruption is a rot on a nation, but I don't see how the political corruption of two Post-Soviet entities on another continent an ocean away is our problem when there's ample political, social, and economic corruption in our own nation.

The US has taken a few hundred thousand Ukrainian refugees so far while other nations have also taken loads. There's also major increases to military spending due to the threats Russia is posing to numerous nations. You also have lines being drawn regarding economic activity via sanctions, whether it's ball bearings, semiconductors, or oil, which may not have the hugest effect on the US, but generally it's a positive when everyone is able to do business a bit more freely which isn't as possible when Russia is wanting to do a war like this.

If Ukraine goes down pretty no sane Ukrainian would want to stick around, so you have an even larger refugee crisis which would cause even more economic problems in a variety of countries, likely including your own.

So while it may not seem like something that would directly affect you, the conflict likely is affecting you to at least some degree.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

"Why would revitalizing America's industrial-level defense manufacturing benefit Americans?"

 

[AgendaPoster]

Everyone on the farms lacks perspective--they're annoyed by particular things, most namely trannies, so they seek solutions to that problem but like everyone else then ignore or don't care about things as bad or worse. Political corruption rots a nation and halts its progress, it's the worst thing ever, and people on KF would gladly trade the corruption of a third world nation with tranny tolerance, and that's a mistake. Political corruption ruins a nation for generations and restricts economic mobility. That's not to say the LGBT shit isn't bad, but you're not getting a good deal in this exchange.

False accusations!

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/europe/russia-blogger-morozov-ukraine-avdiivka.html

A pro-war Russian military blogger died on Wednesday, his lawyer said, after the blogger wrote the country’s military pressured him to remove a post exposing the scale of its losses in a recent battle in Ukraine.
This is all to say that a thousand Russians nationals aren't worth that of one of Gonzalo Lira's fingernails.
View attachment 5760970

The blogger, Andrei Morozov, claimed in his post that Russia had lost 16,000 men and 300 armored vehicles in its assault on the Ukrainian city of Avdiivka

It's interesting how the subject of the count of how many Russian soldiers died is never talked about despite being the basic thing a civilized country would inform its citizenry. Originally I went with the lower scale of estimations, but now I just go with the higher scale of 300K dead (probably 400K by the end of the year) since no one on the other side cares to ask the question.

 

[Harbinger of Kali Yuga]

I don't really agree, frankly. I don't see how Russia/Ukraine winning or losing affects my children in the long term. I'm not Ukrainian, or Russian, or Eastern European. Political corruption is a rot on a nation, but I don't see how the political corruption of two Post-Soviet entities on another continent an ocean away is our problem when there's ample political, social, and economic corruption in our own nation.

Because it's not about Ukraine per se, it's about Russia. Russia will not stop at Ukraine. This is something everyone in Eastern/Central Europe and most people in Western Europe knows and understands. This extends even before WWII. Many people here have no clue of the wider history of Russia and its neighbors, but they know America, so they apply their existing knowledge/narratives to this war and talk about America and wars of propaganda and stuff and while it's connected, it misses a lot of context. A lot of people here probably didn't even know or realize there was drama or issues with some of the Polish and Ukrainians because of negative history between them, particularly Ukrainian celebration of Stepan Bandera who has one meaning to many Ukrainians as a patriot and freedom fighter and to many Polish he was a genocider. (And the Polish by and large overlooked this and took Ukrainians in anyway).

Don't get too carried away with specifics of the metaphor, but imagine a game of Civ or Stellaris where your neighbors are using espionage and political corruption to influence your nation and its policies. And early on you don't care and are laughing because you're doing better in other areas and have no idea WTF this other nation is doing, then all of the sudden you have random staged revolts being led on all your frontier cities at once, they're causing diplomatic incidents within your border, bribing officials... and when cohesion is weak, then the army runs in. That is what Russia does. Russian culture EXPECTS and DEMANDS a strongman leader that will keep people in line through force (which they think, it sucks, but only STRONGMAN can keep this nation together) and they like victory through conquest. The popularity of the Ukraine war in Russia is more over whether it was good for Russia or not, not what they're doing to Ukraine. You can see that attitude in some posters here calling Ukrainians "hohols" and stuff, they have no actual reason to hate Ukraine or Ukrainians, unless they believe they have a moral obligation to allow them to be run by Russia, which is retarded. If Ukraine fell overnight they wouldn't say this shit.

Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO, but only because they did not want to wait until Ukraine became a member state they couldn't attack. That's literally it.

I doubt most of the Russia simps or anti-Ukraine people even realize that Ukraine has INCREDIBLY fertile soil Russia badly wants and needs and that that was the more major factor in this war, just like Crimea's access to the Black Sea was the real reason Russia wanted it.

Morons will look at the Orange Revolution and mumble about CIA interference... you know who says that shit, baselessly? Fucking goddamn socialists about every commie regime. Every fucking Spaniard in a star beret says that shit about Cuba and Venezuela. America doesn't control other nations and the power and efficacy of the CIA and FBI is overstated as propaganda for Americans at home, the Orange Revolution was Ukrainians trying to leave the kleptocratic system that Russia surrounds itself with. People here point out Ukraine is corrupt too, and that's the point, Ukraine has been trying to clean up the corruption that Russia uses to exert influence.

Also, the people cheering on Tucker should see him go WOW over a Russian supermarket and being amazed at things like ALDI-style carts. How can Tucker claim to be in touch with the average American when he doesn't even do his own shopping? People think because he's outside of the establishment he's always credible, but on this particular issue he's a goddamn putz influenced by Ron Paul logic and narratives.

The stronger Russia is now, the even stronger they will be later, and our children will have to pay for that. This isn't baseless xenophobia or military adventurism. America isn't even in this war, it just supports Ukraine and is adversarial to Russia for reasons that are actually pretty good. American foreign policy may have sucked the last 20 years if not much longer but that doesn't mean everything America does or everyone America sides with is wrong.