Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

Or they got purchased by a big company with a big marketing department.

I'm surprised they're even marketing it at all, then.

 

[The Deep State]

I know there’s been a lot of arguments and sperging about how Vivziepop possibly views religion. If it matters, there is this Zoophobia comic that might give you some ideas…

Spoiler: Long and edgy

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That demon furry is supposed to be the Antichrist by the way.
“But Snowfall! Vivzie probably made this when she was a teenager or young adult!”
I mean yeah, probably. But considering the way she still acts like a teenager, it wouldn’t surprise me if she still holds on to some of those feelings.

I like it. It's leagues better than HH/HB. It's edgy and immature, but it's telling me a story that's genuinely coming from Vivzie's heart without any hesitation. I don't know much about the sperging you mentioned, but anyone who couldn't already see that she has a negative view of religion (at least Christianity) is retarded. This comic reveals nothing about her views that wasn't already obvious.

As a fellow euphoric atheist, I don't think a captivating story is possible with Hazbin anymore. The entire appeal of a show like this is supposed to be that it subverts conventionally held beliefs/ideas. The pilot was well-received because Charlie wanting to see the good in demons was a novelty. If it turns out that demons can be moral/just, it makes you go "okay, what else have I been lied to about and why should I believe you?". It's that sense of discovery/uncertainty that keeps you engaged. But as it stands now, in order for Charlie's people to redeem themselves, they essentially have to stop being her people and get a ticket to the other side like Pentious did. So it's hell-bad-heaven-good after all. The subversion is over and now the show is more or less consistent with the Abrahamic/Biblical narrative and its rules, maybe just a bit more sympathetic towards the bad guys (demons).

It's weak. The story could be so much better if it boldly and unironically went heaven-bad-hell-good. This show was never going to be for people who'd be upset by that shit anyway. Have that motherfucker Satan come down here and say "You've read about me in scripture, now you get to hear MY side of the story". Sure, keep it ambiguous and open-ended, let the audience come to their own conclusions, and let the denizens of hell be morally grey just like humans. That's all perfectly fine.

But HH is playing it far too safe to have the honesty or charm this shitty comic has. Nope, can't make god the bad guy anymore (or depict him at all for that matter), might piss off too many people. Nope, alphabets don't go to hell in this universe, don't wanna open that can of worms either.

And now with Amazon involved, I think the plot is doomed.

 

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

You know what? I'll throw my hat into the ring and see what you all think of it:

"Hell is a purgatory-like place that all humans are sent to when they die. No matter what. Humans are tasked with climbing through the many layers of Hell so that they can go to Heaven. Any humans that fall down are stripped of their bodies and only exist as hologram-like souls of themselves. All the while, demons torture the humans, ensuring that they never make it to the top and keep falling all the way back down to the bottom. The overlords, all the while, being the head-honchos of the operation.

Charlie, or the equivalent of, believes that humans don't deserve to be tortured, and sets up the hotel as a way to help rehabilitate the humans instead of treating them all like garbage."

 

[InJailOutSoon]

It's funny. They complain about Christian media straw-manning them, but they do the exact same thing...

Anyway, the reason why people are frustrated by Viv's work is because she says she's writing a story full of nuance characters, but it's really just black and white. You can obviously tell who she wants the audience to root for; who the "heroes" and "villains" are.

When a "hero" does something bad, it's played up for laugh, or there's a good and sympathetic reason why they did such a thing, or it's actually not that bad as it appears to be. When a "villain" does something bad, it's absolutely terrible and you shouldn't look any deep into it.

If the audience starts questioning the morality of a "hero" and pointing out the flaws, make their next appearance more sympathetic and downplay all those previous flaws. If the audience starts to feel sympathetic for a "villain" and understand their motives, make their next appearance more 'evil' and erase away any redeeming quality they might have. And if the "villain" is becoming a "hero", just give their personality a 180 because the audience has to know and have no doubt that this is the character you're supposed to be rooting for now.

Of course, this is a problem with a lot of modern media now; not just Viv's work.

 

[SubarashiiRage]

I like it. It's leagues better than HH/HB. It's edgy and immature, but it's telling me a story that's genuinely coming from Vivzie's heart without any hesitation. I don't know much about the sperging you mentioned, but anyone who couldn't already see that she has a negative view of religion (at least Christianity) is retarded. This comic reveals nothing about her views that wasn't already obvious.

As a fellow euphoric atheist, I don't think a captivating story is possible with Hazbin anymore. The entire appeal of a show like this is supposed to be that it subverts conventionally held beliefs/ideas. The pilot was well-received because Charlie wanting to see the good in demons was a novelty. If it turns out that demons can be moral/just, it makes you go "okay, what else have I been lied to about and why should I believe you?". It's that sense of discovery/uncertainty that keeps you engaged. But as it stands now, in order for Charlie's people to redeem themselves, they essentially have to stop being her people and get a ticket to the other side like Pentious did. So it's hell-bad-heaven-good after all. The subversion is over and now the show is more or less consistent with the Abrahamic/Biblical narrative and its rules, maybe just a bit more sympathetic towards the bad guys (demons).

It's weak. The story could be so much better if it boldly and unironically went heaven-bad-hell-good. This show was never going to be for people who'd be upset by that shit anyway. Have that motherfucker Satan come down here and say "You've read about me in scripture, now you get to hear MY side of the story". Sure, keep it ambiguous and open-ended, let the audience come to their own conclusions, and let the denizens of hell be morally grey just like humans. That's all perfectly fine.

But HH is playing it far too safe to have the honesty or charm this shitty comic has. Nope, can't make god the bad guy anymore (or depict him at all for that matter), might piss off too many people. Nope, alphabets don't go to hell in this universe, don't wanna open that can of worms either.

I don't know what you expected from Vivzie about criticizing Christianity, the pilot was always hell-bad heaven-good, Charlie said verbatim that the Hotel's objective is to send people to heaven, demons in gerenal were never depicted as moral or just, but they can improve to be accepted in heaven. Charlie wants them out of hell to be saved, you missed the point.

The only subversion is that Heaven doesn't know how souls are accepted there, which is just a copout from the show to do the bare minimum to be accepted into Heaven because it has no interest in exploring the real premise of the show which was the redemption of the citizens of Hell and see them improve as people, but they skipped months of development and none of their past was explored, the plot was rushed. Hazbin Hotel bad storytelling has nothing to do with " it didn't bash Christianity hard enough "

It seems more like you want the show to pander to your sensibilities, which there is already too much in this fandom of people wanting more representation, If you want more edgy and immature, go read Reaper's Creek

And what do you mean by "alphabets don't go to hell in this universe"? Did you watch the show? Niffty is the only confirmed straight person in the cast, the rest of the city is queer, people even complained about it.

 

[doodoocaca]

Vivz would fawn over her fans making Lucifer to be a "troll dad with dad jokes who playfully teased Charlie" but then in the series he's just a faggot who likes to make rubber ducks. The missed opportunities for this kill me, especially because Covers Are A Thing, you don't just need to do generic showtunes.

Therefore, I will engage in the extreme faggotry of writing a fan screenplay wherein Lucifer acts like a goofy dad joke dad Devil. I'll even make it awkward and gay and throw in a crossover because it's not even fucking hard. Behold Lucifer performing "My neck, my back" ala Richard Cheese to embarrass his daughter:

INT. HAZBIN HOTEL'S LOUNGE - NIGHT
The atmosphere is charged with excitement. The camera ZOOMS OUT to reveal the lounge full to bursting as LUCIFER, in drag, takes the stage. He’s wearing feathers, a festooned showercap, gigantic sunglasses reminiscent of Elton John, and a thong with a rubber duck head attached. It softly quacks with each step he takes.

A CRANE SHOT then settles on CHARLIE and VAGGIE. VAGGIE starts to laugh, while CHARLIE's eyes widen in a mix of horror and surprise. Vaggie gives Charlie’s hand a reassuring squeeze.

LUCIFER (O.S.)
(Amused)
"Wait, your name is actually Vaggie? With a V? Like Vagina?"

VAGGIE
(Surprised)
"Yes, but it's short for Vagatha."

Charlie's freak-out escalates despite Vaggie's reassurance. Her eyes dart around the room, as if seeking an escape route, then settle back on Lucifer with a mixture of awe and disbelief as her claws extend into the table and scrape deep gouges into it.

A JUMP CUT shows a trio of IMPISH BACKUP SINGERS dressed in tuxedos and top hats appear on stage in puffs of hellfire. They lock eyes on LUCIFER, then turn to CHARLIE and VAGGIE, snicker for a moment, then begin to sing as Lucifer kicks his bare legs up and twirls a baton.

BACKUP SINGERS
(singing)
"Do it now, lick it good,"

A CRANE PAN and DOLLY ZOOM zeroes in on CHARLIE'S face as her eyes widen and her pupils shrink to pinpoints.

BACKUP SINGERS (O.S.)
(singing)
"Suck this pussy just like you should!"

SOUND (O.S.)
(Lounge piano music starts playing)

Charlie
(Frantically screaming)
"DAD NO!"

BACKUP SINGERS (O.S.)
(singing)
"Ooh, ooh, oooh, ba-dada!"

VAGGIE snorts with her gigantic nose and starts to laugh too hard to breathe, flapping her eye patch up around to her other eye, wrapping an arm around CHARLIE to comfort her as LUCIFER begins to do his bit.

LUCIFER (O.S.)
(singing)
"All you ladies pop your pussy like this."

SOUND (O.S.)
(The duck thong quacks)

A JUMP CUT to the stage shows LUCIFER and one BACKUP SINGER simulating the acts they're singing about, the other two snap their fingers with one hand, and spin their IMP TAILS around with the other.

LUCIFER
(Singing and smiling with a shit-eating grin)
"Shake your body, don't stop, don't miss!"

SOUND
(The duck thong quacks)

CHARLIE (O.S.)
(Panicking)
"DAAAAAAAAD-UH!"

VAGGIE (O.S)
(Laughing, snorting, wheezing incoherently)

LUCIFER, BACKUP SINGERS, and DUCK THONG
(Singing)
"All you ladies pop your pussy like this!" (quack)
"Shake your body, don't stop, don't miss!" (quack)
"My neck, my back, lick my pussy and my crack," (quack)
"My neck (his neck), my back (his back)," (quack)

A CRANE PAN swings to CHARLIE, who is crying so hard she is leaving a puddle on her table, lap, and the floor.

Charlie
(sobbing)
"Vaggie, help me!"

In the background, LUCIFER and the BACKUP SINGERS continue their performance, their lyrics becoming part of the lounge's ambient cacophony.

VAGGIE slaps the table, overcome with laughter, then pats CHARLIE's back as she turns red, gasping for air. Charlie begins to regain her composure.

The camera's focus remains on CHARLIE and VAGGIE. Through a RACK FOCUS, the scene subtly shifts, bringing ANGELDUST and KEITH DAVID, who have been watching from the background, into sharp clarity. Their conversation emerges over the dimmed backdrop of the ongoing performance.

ANGELDUST
(Smiling, amused)
"Why'd you drop character, Keith?"

KEITH DAVID
(Pouring the two of them shots)
"Who's fuckin' directing this? This really is hell, isn't it?" KEITH DAVID takes a shot, as does ANGELDUST.

ANGELDUST
(Wiping his mouth with one of his spare arms)
"At least he isn't doing wet ass pussy this time."

A RACK FOCUS brings the focus back on CHARLIE, who is now banging her head on the table. LUCIFER and BACKUP SINGERS reemerge.

LUCIFER and BACKUP SINGERS
"My neck, (my neck), my back, (my back)"
"Lick my pussy, and my crack."

THE CAMERA JUMP CUTS to STOLAS and BLITZO who were on the other side of the room from CHARLIE and VAGGIE

STOLAS
(Overly excited)
"LICK MY BUSSY BLITZY!"

Blitzo pulls out a handgun and shoots himself in the temple. Stolas revives him immediately.

I look forward to AI making this happen for cheap lol.

 

[The Deep State]

And what do you mean by "alphabets don't go to hell in this universe"? Did you watch the show? Niffty is the only confirmed straight person in the cast, the rest of the city is queer, people even complained about it.

I'm talking about the rule that people in this universe don't go to hell simply for being LGBT+.

 

[SubarashiiRage]

I'm talking about the rule that people in this universe don't go to hell simply for being LGBT+.

and yet 97% of Hell is LGBTQ+, I think the implication this causes is worse than having a rule that simply puts them there.
even more so than in Vivzie's Hell the eternal suffering is self-made by the population, this Hell is just California but red and without police.
the angels didn't put sinners in a fiery pit, just in another dimension where they can do whatever they want and they built a liberal paradise where everything is allowed and is terrible to live in.

and the only power structures they have are the abusive Overlords, who run their businesses on the anarcho-capitalism model, and a neglectful Aristocracy.

 

[Seventh Star]

I insist that every musical scene in the show should be replaced by a song from Venom or Death.

If the audience starts questioning the morality of a "hero" and pointing out the flaws, make their next appearance more sympathetic and downplay all those previous flaws. If the audience starts to feel sympathetic for a "villain" and understand their motives, make their next appearance more 'evil' and erase away any redeeming quality they might have. And if the "villain" is becoming a "hero", just give their personality a 180 because the audience has to know and have no doubt that this is the character you're supposed to be rooting for now.

Of course, this is a problem with a lot of modern media now; not just Viv's work.

It has been a problem ever since the Sopranos. TV writers have always been cowardly cucks when it comes to sympathetic or reasonable villains, ironically turning otherwise serious shows into saturday morning cartoons over time.

 

[Beautiful Border]

Something worth noticing about le current year is that there is a trend for (most notably LGBTQ+) people to embrace demonic/Satanic imagery. In my experience, it's an act of rebellion toward that individual's religious upbringing or traditional culture. The problem is, one would think that the best way to rebel against religion/tradition, is to simply embrace nothing. However, embracing nothing doesn't make you many friends. So bearing some kind of iconography is just a substitute for religion as it is another way for people to identify one another (you know, like the ice-cream flags or Redditor Atheist t-shirts).

It's because faggots are inherently "naughty" and bratty. Why do you think the typical gay "accent" is one of a mischievous kid?

 

[doodoocaca]

I insist that every musical scene in the show should be replaced by a song from Venom or Death.

It has been a problem ever since the Sopranos. TV writers have always been cowardly cucks when it comes to sympathetic or reasonable villains, ironically turning otherwise serious shows into saturday morning cartoons over time.

Gul Dukat from DS9 had that problem and he got Flanderized into a comedic devil space hitler.

 

[Chilson]

and yet 97% of Hell is LGBTQ+, I think the implication this causes is worse than having a rule that simply puts them there.
even more so than in Vivzie's Hell the eternal suffering is self-made by the population, this Hell is just California but red and without police.
the angels didn't put sinners in a fiery pit, just in another dimension where they can do whatever they want and they built a liberal paradise where everything is allowed and is terrible to live in.

and the only power structures they have are the abusive Overlords, who run their businesses on the anarcho-capitalism model, and a neglectful Aristocracy.

That literally is just California, or at least SF, though.

 

[doodoocaca]

If we're doing actual california-hell Minh Souphanousinphone should be one of the overlords and all the Irvine Karens make Hell close at 8:00 pm.

 

[Cave Fisher]

I know there’s been a lot of arguments and sperging about how Vivziepop possibly views religion. If it matters, there is this Zoophobia comic that might give you some ideas…

Spoiler: Long and edgy

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That demon furry is supposed to be the Antichrist by the way.
“But Snowfall! Vivzie probably made this when she was a teenager or young adult!”
I mean yeah, probably. But considering the way she still acts like a teenager, it wouldn’t surprise me if she still holds on to some of those feelings.

This takes me back to all the webcomics I used to read where a majority of their strips were just showing how cool the main characters were for beating up, killing, or insulting the most obvious strawmen in the world that you never actually see in real life.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

This video that I found I'd a good take on not only Hazbin Hotel's writing, but modern writing in general. I suggest taking a watch.

I love these motherfuckers who can make eloquent hour long essays on a random super niche topic but can't do a McDonalds order without fumbling their words.

 

[Castoreum]

Just wanted to atone for my hypocrisy by pointing out how I said I hate HH's style of prattling in its song segments, and yet I was huge enjoyer of Repo the Genetic Opera, which I realized, after revisiting the songs for the first time in 10 years, is basically nothing but prattle. Plz forgive me.

 

[Retink Retunk]

This takes me back to all the webcomics I used to read where a majority of their strips were just showing how cool the main characters were for beating up, killing, or insulting the most obvious strawmen in the world that you never actually see in real life.

The simpler days of the Internet, before Mount Gamergate and all.

I love these motherfuckers who can make eloquent hour long essays on a random super niche topic but can't do a McDonalds order without fumbling their words.

I liked the video, but the guy is either young or very autistic because he fumbles a lot of points despite having reasonable takes.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I liked the video, but the guy is either young or very autistic because he fumbles a lot of points despite having reasonable takes.

I'm curious to see if this guy is in school for film or something along in that field, cause a lot of the things he say are what they teach you.

 

[The Nothingness]

Just wanted to atone for my hypocrisy by pointing out how I said I hate HH's style of prattling in its song segments, and yet I was huge enjoyer of Repo the Genetic Opera, which I realized, after revisiting the songs for the first time in 10 years, is basically nothing but prattle. Plz forgive me.

I can at least enjoy the songs from Repo, unlike the Hazbin songs.

 

[Retink Retunk]

I can at least enjoy the songs from Repo, unlike the Hazbin songs.

I think both have good songs, but the more Hazbin goes on the more shit songs they seem to have. I also don't like how everyone in Hazbin tries to go for the very generic epic belting popularized by American Idol instead of having a bigger range of method like Repo had. In general Repo is a much better product that conveys a sense of hell rather well.

I wouldn't call either amazing, but Repo is a fun watch. That and thinking about it, Repo had a much wider range of characters with one brother being a sex pervert obsessed with vanity, the other being a violent psycho, and the sister being a whore, while the dad was a typical mafia business man. When compared to Vivzie's work where I can't tell the difference between a demon like Mammon and an angel like Adam and it's night and day.