Best fucked up books

[BrunoMattei]

Peter Sotos' writings.
He is a true-crime writer who focuses on prostitution, drugs, broken homes, murder and rape. He is very controversial, mostly because his underground zine Pure #2 used a photocopy of CSAM as it's cover in the 1980s.
Exhausting to read, but simultaneously intriguing, horrifying and uncompromising. I read Lazy first, which discusses the Moors murderers, child rape and prostitutes in Chicago, and AIDS swappers. His works are expensive to buy, but PDF copies of his writings are floating around.

Peter Sotos is a retard.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Saw Naked Lunch many times in this thread, and always thought, 'how bad can it be? It was 1959 after all.'

Finally got around to it and Jesus, that book is filthy by the standards of any time! The obscenity gets a little repetitive after a while but it's not too long so it's not exhausting or anything. Definitely worth reading.

“Perverse writers whose corruption is so dangerous, so active, that their single aim is, by causing their appalling doctrines to be printed, to immortalize the sum of their crimes after their own lives are at an end; they themselves can do no more, but their accursed writings will instigate the commission of crimes, and they carry this sweet idea with them to their graves: it comforts them for the obligation, enjoined by death, to relinquish the doing of evil.” Marquis De Sade, Justine: or the Misfortunes of Virtue.

 

[Pomniman]

Naked Lunch goes way beyond mere homosexuality.

However, if you actually read it and question whether Burroughs was even a writer, I suggest his earlier pulp semi-fictional novels Queer and Junky, which show he was actually entirely capable of writing normal prose.

I read those two beforehand and Naked Lunch almost felt like a more heroin-addled sequel rather than a separate entity despite the stylistic differences. There was also that semi-fictional book Burroughs co-wrote with Kerouac about a fag in their NY circlejerk who murdered an older homo, but I wouldn't recommend it because I personally can't stand Kerouac's writing style.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I read those two beforehand and Naked Lunch almost felt like a more heroin-addled sequel rather than a separate entity despite the stylistic differences. There was also that semi-fictional book Burroughs co-wrote with Kerouac about a fag in their NY circlejerk who murdered an older homo, but I wouldn't recommend it because I personally can't stand Kerouac's writing style.

The book was The Hippos Were Boiled in their Tanks.

 

[Pomniman]

The book was The Hippos Were Boiled in their Tanks.

Yes. I read it because of Burroughs exclusively. My only other experience with Kerouac was trying to read The Subterraneans and literally throwing it in the trash after a few pages because the whole tone of it came off like a retarded 12 year old bragging about stupid shit to his buddies in the school cafeteria. I've never done that with any other book before or since then. Burroughs may have been the bigger scumbag by far but Kerouac was a complete hack whose only talent was glomming onto more interesting people for clout.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Kerouac and Ginsberg are pedo hacks who lucked out. The only purpose they served is getting Burroughs out there and setting him up. And trading boys which is another thing they did but Burroughs seemed to be at least a shamed of it and didn't make himself head NAMBLA spokesman.

 

[behavioral swamp thang]

Just finished "Death of Sweet Mister" by Daniel Woodrell. His writing is magnificent, a pleasure to read even if it aint about anything. But man the story was wrekt. Still feeling grossed out by it. It's an Ozarks coming of age about a fat teen boy with a hot mom and their struggles with her POS addict abusive boyfriend. Pretty much anything by Woodrell could be listed here. Is he okay? Someone check on him.

 

[cybertoaster]

Peter Sotos' writings.
He is a true-crime writer who focuses on prostitution, drugs, broken homes, murder and rape. He is very controversial, mostly because his underground zine Pure #2 used a photocopy of CSAM as it's cover in the 1980s.
Exhausting to read, but simultaneously intriguing, horrifying and uncompromising. I read Lazy first, which discusses the Moors murderers, child rape and prostitutes in Chicago, and AIDS swappers. His works are expensive to buy, but PDF copies of his writings are floating around.

Hell naw dawg, gonna pass on this shit...

 

[behavioral swamp thang]

Oh!
I also want to recommend
- "I'm Glad My Mom Died" by Jennette Mccurdy of Icarly fame. I gagged and teared up in several scenes. Her mother forced her and her brother to shower together as teens, while mom supervised.

 

[BrunoMattei]

View attachment 5837075

Hell naw dawg, gonna pass on this shit...

Sir or Ma'am, stop posting your porn here. This is a classy thread.

 

[AnOminous]

The book was The Hippos Were Boiled in their Tanks.

I liked it but it was definitely not top-tier Burroughs.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Peter Sotos' writings.
He is a true-crime writer who focuses on prostitution, drugs, broken homes, murder and rape. He is very controversial, mostly because his underground zine Pure #2 used a photocopy of CSAM as it's cover in the 1980s.
Exhausting to read, but simultaneously intriguing, horrifying and uncompromising. I read Lazy first, which discusses the Moors murderers, child rape and prostitutes in Chicago, and AIDS swappers. His works are expensive to buy, but PDF copies of his writings are floating around.

Didn't Neil Gaiman shit on Sotos in Sandman, in the serial killer convention arc? The guy pretending to be the "Boogyman Killer" from Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run who turned out to be a serial killer fanboy who published a shock magazine called "Chaste" (which was a lot like Pure) who gets torture/killed by several of the killers once outed?

 

[AnOminous]

Burroughs may have been the bigger scumbag by far but Kerouac was a complete hack whose only talent was glomming onto more interesting people for clout.

I honestly don't know that he was. I mean you can say wtf man he shot his wife, but I don't think he consciously intended to kill her. It was just spectacularly reckless to the point of probably being something like depraved heart murder. Apparently he had done the same William Tell stunt previously without incident and was actually a crack shot. The time he did it, though, he apparently was using a gun he was unfamiliar with and its aim was off. That's still utterly insane, considering issues like this are well known, and of course, even doing that William Tell shit was insane, and on top of that, with Burroughs' deep homosexual misogyny (which comes out in his writing), there's definitely reason to believe he at least unconsciously wanted to kill her.

He also appeared to me to live in regret and guilt for what he had done for the rest of his life, with much of his writing attempting to atone for it. I never got any impression from Kerouac and Ginsberg (although I think Ginsburg was in fact a talented poet) that they had anything resembling a conscience, and that they were narcissists addicted to self-promotion.

Burroughs was not afraid to bluntly portray himself as an absolutely terrible person (which he was but I'd definitely sit at a table and talk with him).

Kerouac and Ginsberg also both portrayed themselves as absolutely terrible people, but they didn't know they were doing it.

 

[Jason Wynn]

Oh!
I also want to recommend
- "I'm Glad My Mom Died" by Jennette Mccurdy of Icarly fame. I gagged and teared up in several scenes. Her mother forced her and her brother to shower together as teens, while mom supervised.

Does she call out Dan Schneider at all in the book, or is it just more vagueposting that seems to happen a lot with him?

 

[Second Sun]

Didn't see anyone mention The Gap Series by Stephen R Donaldson.

Super fun sci-fi space opera but with rape and human trafficking. I highly recommend.

 

[Pomniman]

I honestly don't know that he was. I mean you can say wtf man he shot his wife, but I don't think he consciously intended to kill her. It was just spectacularly reckless to the point of probably being something like depraved heart murder. Apparently he had done the same William Tell stunt previously without incident and was actually a crack shot. The time he did it, though, he apparently was using a gun he was unfamiliar with and its aim was off. That's still utterly insane, considering issues like this are well known, and of course, even doing that William Tell shit was insane, and on top of that, with Burroughs' deep homosexual misogyny (which comes out in his writing), there's definitely reason to believe he at least unconsciously wanted to kill her.

He also appeared to me to live in regret and guilt for what he had done for the rest of his life, with much of his writing attempting to atone for it. I never got any impression from Kerouac and Ginsberg (although I think Ginsburg was in fact a talented poet) that they had anything resembling a conscience, and that they were narcissists addicted to self-promotion.

Burroughs was not afraid to bluntly portray himself as an absolutely terrible person (which he was but I'd definitely sit at a table and talk with him).

Kerouac and Ginsberg also both portrayed themselves as absolutely terrible people, but they didn't know they were doing it.

Killing his wife could be written off as an accident, sure, but the guy was still a gay junkie pedophile like everyone else in his social circle on top of that. He was definitely more interesting and talented than anyone else in that clique, and I agree that a chat with him when he was sober might've been interesting, but still.

As far as Ginsberg goes, I don't even want to read anything of his because his whole gimmick as a public persona was being the most stereotypical loud and proud gay pedo kike on the block. Like you said, shame does play a role in how tolerable these sorts of writers can be, and my impression of Ginsberg is that he had none whatsoever. Even that consideration could be suspended if there was something particularly fascinating about him beyond that, but I think the type of depravity he was engaged in was already employed as a muse of sorts in less obnoxious ways by various Frenchmen in the 1700s-1800s.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Killing his wife could be written off as an accident, sure, but the guy was still a gay junkie pedophile like everyone else in his social circle on top of that. He was definitely more interesting and talented than anyone else in that clique, and I agree that a chat with him when he was sober might've been interesting, but still.

As far as Ginsberg goes, I don't even want to read anything of his because his whole gimmick as a public persona was being the most stereotypical loud and proud gay pedo kike on the block. Like you said, shame does play a role in how tolerable these sorts of writers can be, and my impression of Ginsberg is that he had none whatsoever. Even that consideration could be suspended if there was something particularly fascinating about him beyond that, but I think the type of depravity he was engaged in was already employed as a muse of sorts in less obnoxious ways by various Frenchmen in the 1700s-1800s.

I love Burroughs as a writer but he was a pedo fag which is unfortunate. This is the writer fag equivalent of art house junkies dealing with the stigma of being Team Polanski or Team Woody Allen. They always seem to ignore Pasolini's pedophilia as well which I find so interesting among those circles (Criterion Collection diehards and poseurs). But if I didn't read Naked Lunch when I was 16 then I can tell you definitively that this thread would not exist, I would not have met my friend of decades, or even be alive right now. Finding a book that knocks you off your ass doesn't just inspire you but can have you think you can match it's quality and even outdo it one day. You tend to stick around when you have that mindset.

I will share two anecdotes from my one friend of decades:

He noticed a book store near him had Ginsberg there for a reading. He decides to go there as a lark and he sees Ginsberg in all of his disgusting pedo/hippie/mumu regalia and (swear to god) Ginsberg is snorting loudly like a pig during a poetry reading. DSP snorts X 10. That level of disgust and my friend has no idea who the fuck DSP is until I take the time to explain to him in depth.

Understandably, he just immediately left the book store with the motto "Never meet your heroes." Even though Ginsberg was no hero to him but you get it.

A few years later, he's walking around Brooklyn and sees Burroughs wandering by himself near his home. Completely alone and very frail (this is a few years before his death). My friend never extrapolated the whys but he knows about Burroughs' pedo behavior and I'm sure that was another motivation to just watch Burroughs from afar in contented observation. That's all he needed. Because he's like me and Burroughs' writing changed everything for him. Something about silently observing the old pervert just go about his day satiated that curiosity.

 

[Pomniman]

I love Burroughs as a writer but he was a pedo fag which is unfortunate. This is the writer fag equivalent of art house junkies dealing with the stigma of being Team Polanski or Team Woody Allen. They always seem to ignore Pasolini's pedophilia as well which I find so interesting among those circles (Criterion Collection diehards and poseurs). But if I didn't read Naked Lunch when I was 16 then I can tell you definitively that this thread would not exist, I would not have met my friend of decades, or even be alive right now. Finding a book that knocks you off your ass doesn't just inspire you but can have you think you can match it's quality and even outdo it one day. You tend to stick around when you have that mindset.

I will share two anecdotes from my one friend of decades:

He noticed a book store near him had Ginsberg there for a reading. He decides to go there as a lark and he sees Ginsberg in all of his disgusting pedo/hippie/mumu regalia and (swear to god) Ginsberg is snorting loudly like a pig during a poetry reading. DSP snorts X 10. That level of disgust and my friend has no idea who the fuck DSP is until I take the time to explain to him in depth.

Understandably, he just immediately left the book store with the motto "Never meet your heroes." Even though Ginsberg was no hero to him but you get it.

A few years later, he's walking around Brooklyn and sees Burroughs wandering by himself near his home. Completely alone and very frail (this is a few years before his death). My friend never extrapolated the whys but he knows about Burroughs' pedo behavior and I'm sure that was another motivation to just watch Burroughs from afar in contented observation. That's all he needed. Because he's like me and Burroughs' writing changed everything for him. Something about silently observing the old pervert just go about his day satiated that curiosity.

Yeah, I'm all for separating the art from the artist if the art itself has enough merit so long as you're under no illusions about who and what they are/were. Polanski is a good example because some of his movies are objectively great but he should probably be subjected to some form of medieval execution for some of the shit he did. I can still enjoy his movies while having that opinion of him as an individual. When it comes to poetry, 20th century American poetry in particular, there's a trend of elevating porcine degenerate troglodytes to the status of demigods for largely political reasons and to me Ginsberg is a poster boy for the leftist counterculture of the time thinking you could do no wrong so long as you were a homo, darkie, and/or a Marxist.

The "scene" that develops around poetry specifically seems prone to that kind of thing even to this day because it's as seedy as showbiz but with none of the money or glamor so you get borderline indigent junkie perverts having cults of personality form around them because their poverty and shabbiness gives them an aura of holiness to the local tankie university dropout coffeehouse fags that are drawn to them like flies to shit.

 

[BrunoMattei]

When it comes to poetry, 20th century American poetry in particular, there's a trend of elevating porcine degenerate troglodytes to the status of demigods for largely political reasons and to me Ginsberg is a poster boy for the leftist counterculture of the time thinking you could do no wrong so long as you were a homo, darkie, and/or a Marxist.

I think that's just writing in general.

 

[Pomniman]

I think that's just writing in general.

Kind of, but I think poetry has a much lower barrier for entry in that regard than things like novels or short stories, because it's a lot easier for someone to break out into these types of "scenes" with performances of extremely low effort slam or beat poetry. With fiction there's more of a barrier for entry in that you have to actually write a novel or short story and get it published in some capacity to be taken seriously by those types.