Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Found a video of just the section of the keyholing. I think it was from broadcast of some "elite" all female SWAT unit in Beijing or something.

Imagine broadcasting that. I'm sure it's for internal use and most Chinamen don't know what keyholing is, but still.

You think they were shooting standard ball ammo at 15 feet away into a brick wall?
I mean yeah I get that it's China and they don't really care about workplace safety but they're not that retarded

 

[Fapcop]

You think they were shooting standard ball ammo at 15 feet away into a brick wall?
I mean yeah I get that it's China and they don't really care about workplace safety but they're not that retarded

I think there’s a lot of insecurity from westoids, and particularly the military-adjacent tacticool folks.

There’s a growing awareness that western equipment isn’t as good as it has been cracked up to be… Wars are being fought but not won. And at the same time you see Russian successes and the Chinks make some really impressive leaps.

So there’s a tendency to seize on ANYTHING and point and laugh to soothe those insecurities, no matter if it’s true or not.

Picture of dead Russian soldier that had his bodyarmor and weapon taken by Ukrops? “SEE THEY SEND THEIR SOLDIERS INTO BATTLE UNARMED AND UNEQUIPPED!”

Video of Chinese rubber rounds keyholing in an exercise? “SEE THOSE DUMB CHINKS CANT EVEN MAKE RIFLES AND BULLETS AHAHAHA!”

 

[Kane Lives]

I think there’s a lot of insecurity from westoids, and particularly the military-adjacent tacticool folks.

There’s a growing awareness that western equipment isn’t as good as it has been cracked up to be… Wars are being fought but not won. And at the same time you see Russian successes and the Chinks make some really impressive leaps.

So there’s a tendency to seize on ANYTHING and point and laugh to soothe those insecurities, no matter if it’s true or not.

Picture of dead Russian soldier that had his bodyarmor and weapon taken by Ukrops? “SEE THEY SEND THEIR SOLDIERS INTO BATTLE UNARMED AND UNEQUIPPED!”

Video of Chinese rubber rounds keyholing in an exercise? “SEE THOSE DUMB CHINKS CANT EVEN MAKE RIFLES AND BULLETS AHAHAHA!”

I'm not a gun-sperg so I ask the obvious here: do all rubber rounds keyhole or something?

 

[Fapcop]

I'm not a gun-sperg so I ask the obvious here: do all rubber rounds keyhole or something?

Depends. Keyholing happens (for example) when the round doesn’t fit snugly in the barrel. Like with a rubber round.

The amount of powder in a rubber round is also lower, meaning that it isn’t shot out of the barrel with a normal speed. Low speed is another thing that can make a round tumble and keyhole.

You’re basically not using the rifle in the way it was intended, and it says zero about its performance when used as intended.

 

[demicolon]

It's not a bad strategy, as I've said before I think they want political unification with Taiwan, not a military invasion, to keep the industry there intact, their "saber rattling" about it is for internal purposes, and the recent escalations is because our state department, the mongrel idiots that they are, started taking it seriously. I recall China's reaction seeming initially surprised even.

Taiwanese are still considered Han Chinese by the mainland and declaring war with an intent to kill would be political suicide.

 

[Kane Lives]

Taiwanese are still considered Han Chinese by the mainland and declaring war with an intent to kill would be political suicide.

More broadly, the Chinese diaspora in SEA and elsewhere is also included in this label. I distinctly remember Xi making a speech saying that overseas Chinese are welcome to "come home" anytime.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

This article is from two days ago, but I think it flew under the radar.
Understandable though, since Micron's constant yapping has gotten tiring.

Full article

 

[Eternal Gopnik]

This article is from two days ago, but I think it flew under the radar.
Understandable though, since Micron's constant yapping has gotten tiring.
View attachment 5882612
Full article

Yeah, when the beautiful vibrancy and diversity Paris is famous for starts beheading attendees, it's definitely going to be PutZZler's fault.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

Recovered footage from the Belgorod assault attempt. It shows foreigners were involved in it.

 

[The Ugly One]

I suppose it's also possible that the barrels were made out of Chinesium and were already shot out. Which is not great either, since you may have rounds that are fine, but guns that just randomly suck because someone somewhere was skimming off the top. I would assume we've gotten 5.8mm to run ballistics on it, but I've not seen much of anything about it.

That's the great thing about China, there is always an infinitude of possible reasons why something designed and made there is a broken piece of trash.

Never. Understand, the problem is not that they cannot make it, nor that they cannot punish slackers and do-nothing. The problem is entirely cultural, because of the chinese propensity to jew one another and outsiders.

A major problem they have, dating to before Communism, is that they think the way to fix quality problems is to find and punish a scapegoat. The idea that poor quality is typically the result of bad processes rather than bad actors seems to be beyond them, and this means that everyone does their best to either hide problems or point fingers, making it really hard to find what went wrong. And on top of that, they then tend to thing that just find "smart people" and "hard working people," and everything will be fine, no need to have good processes.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

You think they were shooting standard ball ammo at 15 feet away into a brick wall?
I mean yeah I get that it's China and they don't really care about workplace safety but they're not that retarded

Not standard ball ammo, no, I would have assumed something that breaks up, frangible ammo and such. Besides, wouldn't rubber bullets bounce, they're not exactly going to break up.

 

[Fapcop]

Not standard ball ammo, no, I would have assumed something that breaks up, frangible ammo and such. Besides, wouldn't rubber bullets bounce, they're not exactly going to break up.

It’s not rubber bullets as in a rubber ball.

They don’t bounce lol.

Granted, the term “rubber bullet” is a bit confusing, but USUALLY it just means that the outer layer is a hard kind of rubber.

Make no mistake, rubber bullets can both kill or seriously injure you. For example, when you read about Israeli police firing “rubber bullets” at protesters, they’re referring to steel bullets with a coating of hard rubber. It may not penetrate but it’ll def. maim, injure and kill.

Taiwanese are still considered Han Chinese by the mainland and declaring war with an intent to kill would be political suicide.

The thing is: It would never be presented as “Alright! Time to invade and kill our fellow chinks!”

Instead, in the case of a provocation, like Taiwan declaring their independence, it would be laid out as: “Ferrow honorable Chinese! The Taiwan government had been seized by hostile, foreign agents and are threatening out territorial integrity and sovereignty! TAIWANESE PATRIOTS ARE CALLING FOR OUR HELP! It is with heavy yet determined hearts that Chinese troops are in these moments liberating Taiwan. Every attempt to avoid collateral damage will be taken, and we will be victorious in defending our borders!”

And it would likely be received positively. Younger generations of Chinese are based and patriotic as f.

Here’s an example: I know a Chinese chick. She’s been living in the west for a decade, doesn’t care about politics and is against war. Yet one time I asked about Taiwan, and the answer immediately rolled off her tongue: “Of course Taiwan in part of China”.

A war for a Taiwan will have wide popular support among the chinks, while Burgers will, once again, ask hard questions about why we’re, once again, involved in a war on the other side of the world.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

Which aircraft carrier are you talking about specifically?

Liaoning specifically, although that could just be carry over, I don't recall whether Shandong has had similar issues.

I think there’s a lot of insecurity from westoids, and particularly the military-adjacent tacticool folks.

There’s a growing awareness that western equipment isn’t as good as it has been cracked up to be… Wars are being fought but not won. And at the same time you see Russian successes and the Chinks make some really impressive leaps.

So there’s a tendency to seize on ANYTHING and point and laugh to soothe those insecurities, no matter if it’s true or not.

It's more of skepticism of Chinese claims, since they lie about things all the time, on every level, you don't what you can take seriously and what you can't until you see a demonstration. None of us are surprised Russian stuff works, because Russia has an established history. China doesn't, but they do have a history of lying and coping. Looks like they might finally have the WS-15s ready for the J-20s though, that's pretty neat. We might finally get to see if it meets Chinese claims.

It’s not rubber bullets as in a rubber ball.

They don’t bounce lol.

If you're using them for training and firing them at a backstop 15 feet away, unless they break up on impact, you'd worry about ricochets. Especially, I'd assume, if they're keyholing, so they've not going to hit the wall behind the target head on. Maybe they do break up, I don't think the Chinaman's explanation in the video covers that.

There's plenty who do, but I don't take anyone's claims of how awesome any of their military things are until we can see it in action, especially if there's no established baseline for them.

 

[Fapcop]

If you're using them for training and firing them at a backstop 15 feet away, unless they break up on impact, you'd worry about ricochets. Especially, I'd assume, if they're keyholing, so they've not going to hit the wall behind the target head on. Maybe they do break up, I don't think the Chinaman's explanation in the video covers that.

The keyholing is a result of the weight/mass of the bullet, the low amount of powder in a training round and the bullet not fitting snugly in the barrel.

I would presume anyways. There’s a lot we don’t know about their new intermediary bullets.

There's plenty who do, but I don't take anyone's claims of how awesome any of their military things are until we can see it in action, especially if there's no established baseline for them.

That’s smart.

But the thing is, the Chinese has been making assault rifles and bullets for decades.

While there are good reason to be skeptical of claims, especially seemingly impressive claims, there’s likewise no reason to assume that they’re total retards who can’t figure out bitch basic firearms/ballistic construction after making guns for like a century.

 

[OutInTheRain]

Eh… Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the Sidewinder is an IR missile?!

You are correct, I got my missile codenames wrong, I meant the AIM-120, the Sidewinder is an AIM-9 and is an IR missile.

Well it’s complicated and depends on the kind of radar and the direction.

This illustration shows the crossection of the F35 from different bands and directions.

Without getting too much into the kinematics, the aspect(direction of travel) of the aircraft plays a large part as well. If they are traveling towards you, or away from you, all affects how and when you can fire. Not to mention when there are other air and ground based sensors giving a shared picture, which will most certainly have an affect.

I don't know how the F-35 will fare in a near peer conflict, or even in a theater with actual Anti-Air and defense in depth. I believe that the F-35 was designed with having the complete ISR abilities of the US behind them when they operate, rather than the austere conditions you see with Ukraine and their attempts to fly aircraft. It's the same with the F-16 and if Ukraine ever gets them, they'll be learning and training on tactics that require the American sensor and link capabilities. Which I doubt Ukraine has.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

The keyholing is a result of the weight/mass of the bullet, the low amount of powder in a training round and the bullet not fitting snugly in the barrel.

I would presume anyways. There’s a lot we don’t know about their new intermediary bullets.

It's possible. It's hard to assess, because there doesn't really seem to be a lot of third party information on the 5.8mm.

That’s smart.

But the thing is, the Chinese has been making assault rifles and bullets for decades.

While there are good reason to be skeptical of claims, especially seemingly impressive claims, there’s likewise no reason to assume that they’re total retards who can’t figure out bitch basic firearms/ballistic construction after making guns for like a century.

My general assumption isn't that the rifle design itself isn't bad, but that someone cheaped out on the barrels and they were already shot out. Which may have explained their deployment in what kinda looks like a propaganda based All Female SWAT Team. It's not a good sign, but it's just a data point when we don't have a lot to go on. Again, I think it's somewhat deliberate. If you can't be sure of exact capabilities, you kinda have to go with Most Capable just to be on the safe side for war planning.

I think it's smart to be honest. Who wants to actually find out if they are as good as they claim or not?

 

[Fapcop]

Dimi “Mad Dog” Medvedev based as F again!

 

[The Ugly One]

I believe that the F-35 was designed with having the complete ISR abilities of the US behind them when they operate

Exporting to shitholes is not even a consideration when designing American fighter jets. "Yeah some day we'll sell one to Egypt when they're outdated pieces of shit anyway" is about as far as that ever goes.

My general assumption isn't that the rifle design itself isn't bad

In China, it's a near certainty that the lead engineer on any project is the guy who is best at stealing credit for other people's work.

 

[Fapcop]

It's possible. It's hard to assess, because there doesn't really seem to be a lot of third party information on the 5.8mm.

My general assumption isn't that the rifle design itself isn't bad, but that someone cheaped out on the barrels and they were already shot out.

I’m sure there’s plenty of corruption in China, but in this case it makes sense to assume it’s the nature of the bullet.

Like… When there’s corruption it would make sense to have it somewhere LESS OBVIOUS than a rifle that can’t shoot. And needs to pass numerous inspections.


As for the Liaoning carrier, that is from what I’ve read a pretty complicated story.

The chinks, wanting to learn how to build and operate carriers, bought an ex Soviet carrier from the Ukrainians.

(Who, as Ukrainians tend to do when they don’t have a Russian commissar keeping an eye on them, just let the carrier collapse into a hunk of rust.)

The Chinese somehow sailed this half-ship to China (and btw… Apparently it was a PRIVATE individual who foot the bill… And still hadn’t been paid back?!), fixed it up and made it seaworthy in a Chinese shipyard.


I’d venture to say, that given the long and complicated story behind this carrier (and Ukrainian involvement!) it’s hardly a story that you can draw hard and fast conclusions about corruption from.


Also: Pretty remarkable that the chinks went from having ZERO carriers and little in the way of a naval tradition, to having four carriers and more coming in just a few decades.

 

[jje100010001]

Taiwanese are still considered Han Chinese by the mainland and declaring war with an intent to kill would be political suicide.

Part of the crisis is that the KMT essentially considered itself the rump government of the mainland Nationalist government, so they spent considerable resources Han-ifying Taiwan, while keeping the the political status of Taiwan in the post-war era as somewhat fuzzy to ensure that they were still entitled to the mainland.

Of course, since they were unable to take back the mainland, this issue had doubled over and bit Taiwan in the ass after the mainland CCP government was deemed the legitimate Chinese government.

If Taiwan had declared independence in the 50s, the political question would have essentially been settled, while the culture left behind by the Japanese + Fujianese settlers and Taiwanese aborigines would have diverged more significantly from mainlander Chinese culture. Of course there's no doubt that the mainland in such a situation would continue to press claims, but their claims would be weaker.