Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Judge Holden]

The difference is, ESB tried to build on the foundation ANH laid. TLJ tore down the foundation left behind by TFA and what's left of the OT that TFA didn't destroy.

Once upon a time a bad movie was one which was simply badly acted/written/directed.

This is the definition which was used to damn the prequels for so long, and which even with full nostalgia and lowered standards in place is still an apt description. Whatever good ideas were at the heart of those movies, the execution was mediocre at best and terrible at worst. What has allowed them to find acceptance and even a semi unironic esteem is that they gave much more to the franchise (i.e. the wider setting, wider lore, character dynamics, explanations as to why shit was as it was in the original movies etc) than it took (i.e. some vague old-EU details that had to be updated and loose assumptions as to the pre-ANH era) and while the new shit was often far from perfect both in theory or in practice and could 100% have been improved in hindsight, they still did not actively detract from the franchise or enjoyment of the original movies and infact added more weight to these movies as they showed the expanse of the setting which the characters were fighting to save, even if this was all set up less than perfectly.

The sequels though? They straight up erased all of this. The original trilogy may as well have been retconned due to how the Nu-Empire so easily conquered everything in a literal fucking afternoon given the explicit passage of time (or lack therof) between TFA and TLJ. All the old characters are either dead or useless or (by the end) both and everything they did before amounted to jack shit in their own lifetimes. The vast setting established by prior movies is explicitly whittled down to just the assholes on one ship vs the Nu-Empire with nobody else anywhere else being worth noting even in passing. Even the climax of the original trilogy and thus the prequels of Vader sacrificing himself to kill the emperor was casually erased and thus making that shit utterly fucking pointless. Hell even the mediocre fumblings of the never-ending parade of OT/Prequel era series and miniseries are impossible to have any vague investment in because we already know it wont be worth jack shit in the wider picture and lawd knows they dont have enough good stories/characters to hold up in their own right.

This is the true definition of a bad movie and a bad story. One which actively corrodes and cheapens any and all which came before it solely to prop up its own substandard contents and concepts and shill its substandard characters as "better" than those in the original stories.

The classic bad movie/series/whatever only wastes its own potential. The truly bad movie/series/whatever retroactively wastes the potential of the entire franchise or setting its grafted to.

 

[Adamska]

The thing is, the news media and all these puff-piece articles have to defend the Sequels, Last Jedi especially, because it was ''their'' Star Wars. Even if they have to pen such stupid articles as ''Why Star Wars' Original Trilogy Heroes had to fail in the Sequels''.

It also helps that Roundhead has a journoscum wife who can use her connections to get others to defend her husband's mediocre films that pretend to be subversive. Would not be shocked if they actually plan out the agitprop to gurgle to the rest of the lot.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

This is the definition which was used to damn the prequels for so long, and which even with full nostalgia and lowered standards in place is still an apt description. Whatever good ideas were at the heart of those movies, the execution was mediocre at best and terrible at worst. What has allowed them to find acceptance and even a semi unironic esteem is that they gave much more to the franchise (i.e. the wider setting, wider lore, character dynamics, explanations as to why shit was as it was in the original movies etc) than it took (i.e. some vague old-EU details that had to be updated and loose assumptions as to the pre-ANH era) and while the new shit was often far from perfect both in theory or in practice and could 100% have been improved in hindsight, they still did not actively detract from the franchise or enjoyment of the original movies and infact added more weight to these movies as they showed the expanse of the setting which the characters were fighting to save, even if this was all set up less than perfectly.

Both the Prequels and the OT were cheesy, hammy, special effects-laden boomfiestas. At the end of the day, they're about as deep as a puddle, but they were fun, enjoyable, and provided the backdrop for a universe that could and was expanded by countless works of expanded fiction. The PT actually followed in the footsteps of the late 90s early 2000s EU which didn't paint the Republic in the most flattering light and instead tried to insert nuance or even some slight justification for the Empire and why so many people signed up for it.

The sequels though? They straight up erased all of this. The original trilogy may as well have been retconned due to how the Nu-Empire so easily conquered everything in a literal fucking afternoon given the explicit passage of time (or lack therof) between TFA and TLJ. All the old characters are either dead or useless or (by the end) both and everything they did before amounted to jack shit in their own lifetimes. The vast setting established by prior movies is explicitly whittled down to just the assholes on one ship vs the Nu-Empire with nobody else anywhere else being worth noting even in passing. Even the climax of the original trilogy and thus the prequels of Vader sacrificing himself to kill the emperor was casually erased and thus making that shit utterly fucking pointless. Hell even the mediocre fumblings of the never-ending parade of OT/Prequel era series and miniseries are impossible to have any vague investment in because we already know it wont be worth jack shit in the wider picture and lawd knows they dont have enough good stories/characters to hold up in their own right.

Basically, yes. Disney was so afraid of the backlash towards the PT and attempts at worldbuilding, so they did a complete 180 and created a shallow facsimile of the OT, but in so doing, it made the OT look redundant since the Empire just had better Star Destroyers, better superweapons, more soldiers, a bigger empire, all under the shadow of a New Republic that was too dull and stupid to stop them, making the OT heroes failures, hence why the puff-pieces written are all about why that had to happen, instead of looking at the obvious truth that it happened because Hollywood writers are hacks and can only poorly replicate what had come before.

It also helps that Roundhead has a journoscum wife who can use her connections to get others to defend her husband's mediocre films that pretend to be subversive. Would not be shocked if they actually plan out the agitprop to gurgle to the rest of the lot.

Same thing happened with Gamergate and all the journalism stuff. These people are all connected. So no crap, they will defend something like The Last Jedi even though that movie did more damage to the Disney SW brand than a million SWEU fanboys calling foul on them wiping the canon. The latter was a mere annoyance that the mainstream, movie-going audience ignored. Hell, some fans of the SWEU novels were tired of the crap happening with NJO and LOTF and wanted a canon wipe. But TLJ is when the blindfold was ripped off and people saw Disney SW for what it was underneath; a shell bereft of ideas that can only imitate instead of create. Even the whole ''questioning the Jedi'' thing was something KOTOR 2 and other works have done in the past. Hell, I thought TLJ was going the KOTOR 2 route before it came out, only to be sorely disappointed.

If I were the Disney CEO, I'd nuke everything surrounding the ST and move to have Dave Filoni and whoever I can find to direct and write a new timeline; have Thrawn use some kind of space voodoo on Lothal and he uses The World Between Worlds to blow up Exogol and Ilum or some shit, and have that be the excuse to create a brand-new timeline where we can do whatever we want to appease the fans. Vong invasions, resurrected Emperor DONE RIGHT, the Jedi Knight games, anything just to bury TLJ because of how it just caused the SW brand to sink in value.

 

[Midwit]

goes commando in the first two films

That goes without saying. There's no underwear in space, remember?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That goes without saying. There's no underwear in space, remember?

Not that kind of commando. Leia's the one who does that, not Padme. The closest Padme got to being smut material was on Geonosis when her white suit got torn and she showed her midriff. Oh, and her black dress on Naboo during her ''date'' with Anakin.

 

[Screamer_2]

Instead he got Roundhead who revealed all his set ups as the nothing they were, and JJ had to come back to try to salvage his legacy revealing himself as the hack he always was.

Not to go round this bend again, but for as lazy as JJ's set ups were. They could have been continued into something decent. So little was established, anything could have happened.

Round head taking the most obvious and doing the opposite is even more retarded than JJ. Resistance wins a battle against The First Order. Next film. First Order conquered the galaxy in the 1 second of time that takes place between the films isn't an epic take down of JJ being lazy. It's being even worse.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Not to go round this bend again, but for as lazy as JJ's set ups were. They could have been continued into something decent. So little was established, anything could have happened.

Round head taking the most obvious and doing the opposite is even more retarded than JJ. Resistance wins a battle against The First Order. Next film. First Order conquered the galaxy in the 1 second of time that takes place between the films isn't an epic take down of JJ being lazy. It's being even worse.

JJ at least leaves enough room for a better director to make something out of it. Rian ruined any chance of that and basically doomed the Disney SW canon to failure, especially when KK and Disney are insistent on keeping the ST canon instead of having it retconned by Filoni and his time-travel holes.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Not to go round this bend again, but for as lazy as JJ's set ups were. They could have been continued into something decent. So little was established, anything could have happened.

Round head taking the most obvious and doing the opposite is even more retarded than JJ. Resistance wins a battle against The First Order. Next film. First Order conquered the galaxy in the 1 second of time that takes place between the films isn't an epic take down of JJ being lazy. It's being even worse.

As a thought experiment, I tried to write a treatment sequel to TFA and found it was actually harder than writing a sequel to TLJ.* Basically, I found myself patching plotholes created by TFA like how The First Order slipped the minds of the New Republic and Luke expositing to Rey why he fucked off for 30 years. I came to the conclusion that the A plot is Poe investigating leads into a corrupt senator that was bankrolling them while the B plot is Luke training Rey as the next Chosen One to find and stop Snoke. It's rather boring and not conductive to action scenes as anyone who tries to take a shot at PI Poe reveals himself to be guilty and Rey still doesn't get to have any character development. I guess Rey could be motivated to learn Force Healing to heal Finn, but she still doesn't butt heads with Master Luke in a real way. I can't figure out how to use Kylo Ren in a story like this because if he goes to confront Luke and Rey, he becomes Team Rocket. If I stick him in Poe's plot, he's just muscle and the investigation dies with him. In screenwriting reckoning, I'm also running into the problem of these plots not being thematically conductive to each other because Rey's plot doesn't have mystery when Luke is explaining the events of the last 30 years.

*I think I wrote a TLJ sequel in a MovieBob thread.

 

[Ghostse]

Not to go round this bend again, but for as lazy as JJ's set ups were. They could have been continued into something decent. So little was established, anything could have happened.

Round head taking the most obvious and doing the opposite is even more retarded than JJ. Resistance wins a battle against The First Order. Next film. First Order conquered the galaxy in the 1 second of time that takes place between the films isn't an epic take down of JJ being lazy. It's being even worse.

If I laugh and clap when a screeching retard runs on set and takes a giant shit in Guy Fieri's chili-cookoff entry, I am not calling that retard a good chef.

 

[Adamska]

As a thought experiment, I tried to write a treatment sequel to TFA and found it was actually harder than writing a sequel to TLJ.* Basically, I found myself patching plotholes created by TFA like how The First Order slipped the minds of the New Republic and Luke expositing to Rey why he fucked off for 30 years. I came to the conclusion that the A plot is Poe investigating leads into a corrupt senator that was bankrolling them while the B plot is Luke training Rey as the next Chosen One to find and stop Snoke. It's rather boring and not conductive to action scenes as anyone who tries to take a shot at PI Poe reveals himself to be guilty and Rey still doesn't get to have any character development. I guess Rey could be motivated to learn Force Healing to heal Finn, but she still doesn't butt heads with Master Luke in a real way. I can't figure out how to use Kylo Ren in a story like this because if he goes to confront Luke and Rey, he becomes Team Rocket. If I stick him in Poe's plot, he's just muscle and the investigation dies with him. In screenwriting reckoning, I'm also running into the problem of these plots not being thematically conductive to each other because Rey's plot doesn't have mystery when Luke is explaining the events of the last 30 years.

*I think I wrote a TLJ sequel in a MovieBob thread.

I did a napkin script series a good while back, but I'd probably rework a lot of it given my changing thoughts on things, the fact I tried to be conservative to the hatcheting, and due to binding myself to events that happened outside the films. It's why I had Leia for example die in my very brief Plan 9 script, since TLJ killed Carrie Fisher. Also why I kept the general arc.

To have all three of the old castmembers line up would only be possible for 7, since Harrison absolutely hates playing Han and could just say nope to playing him. So you'd have to absolutely change up shit due to that, or at least maybe promise that last Indy film as a balm in exchange for a guaranteed by contract death in Episode 8 or something. But honestly you really should have a scene like that in the sequels.

Your biggest challenge is to slowly hand off the reins to the next generation without the main cast overshadowing them honestly, since the previous gens of actors actually gave a shit and had training.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

To have all three of the old castmembers line up would only be possible for 7, since Harrison absolutely hates playing Han and could just say nope to playing him. So you'd have to absolutely change up shit due to that, or at least maybe promise that last Indy film as a balm in exchange for a guaranteed by contract death in Episode 8 or something. But honestly you really should have a scene like that in the sequels.

That JJ didn't take that obvious opportunity may be the biggest mistake he ever made, even including TRoS. Everyone knew that window was very short and would have been praised even if it was hackneyed and awkward narratively.

Your biggest challenge is to slowly hand off the reins to the next generation without the main cast overshadowing them honestly, since the previous gens of actors actually gave a shit and had training.

That should have been the purpose of Episode 8 and 9. The OT cast become supporting players and delivering exposition to the young cast while they do in-universe deeds to prove themselves, like how real life is supposed to work; the old people teach the young people and they pass on gracefully.

 

[mlanguishi]

This is both the coolest Star Wars related thing I've seen in a long time, and also by far the creepiest. AI's going to be able to make full movies of stuff like this soon. Wild.

The ANH one is a little too goofy, but still nice.

 

[Lazy Printer]

Does she stay in the throne all day staring at the wall? I don't know if i being auttistic but this is one of the dumbiest scenes so far. Aside from mando insisting in getting the bounty hunter droid fixed for no reason and then just using a astromech anyway.

 

[Judge Holden]

This is both the coolest Star Wars related thing I've seen in a long time, and also by far the creepiest. AI's going to be able to make full movies of stuff like this soon. Wild.

The ANH one is a little too goofy, but still nice.

I'm not sure if its the store brand 7-UP I just chugged or the gallon of expired green tea I had earlier but watching these videos and others on the channel legit made me feel sick in the stomach and I can feel the hairs on the back of my neck standing up

All in all a far more enjoyable experience than the past decade of Star Wars cawntent

EDIT:



After many, many years I think I am finally experiencing the uncanny valley effect

 

[Gondolindrim]

I always wonder what kind of miserable people can only envision characters as being miserable failures. Do they not envision or even understand people can be content or happy?

There's no reason Indy couldn't have been living a now subdue suburban life. Who remembers his adventures but knows those days are done. Where he gets a call for one last adventure and he hopes he is still up to the task.

I know what you mean. It's weird how Han and Leia have a failed marriage and Solo went back to crime at the ripe old age of fucking 89, while Luke completely fucked off and lives in a shitty island planet. Like, is no one allowed to have a happy ending?

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I know what you mean. It's weird how Han and Leia have a failed marriage and Solo went back to crime at the ripe old age of fucking 89, while Luke completely fucked off and lives in a shitty island planet. Like, is no one allowed to have a happy ending?

I'll give Han some leeway and assume he did have a solid above-board career in shipping dangerous wildlife to zoos. So having the fly the Falcon again is like you trying to be a truck driver, but some bint and her Black friend cause you to lose the 18 wheeler and now you have to drive the old 1979 Dodge Charger you owned as your first car. If it were me, I would be low-key annoyed the entire time seeing as how that truck was probably something I loaned out from the company and now I'm stuck with the beat-up old car without power steering, back up camera, or anti-theft device.

 

[mlanguishi]

I'll give Han some leeway and assume he did have a solid above-board career in shipping dangerous wildlife to zoos. So having the fly the Falcon again is like you trying to be a truck driver, but some bint and her Black friend cause you to lose the 18 wheeler and now you have to drive the old 1979 Dodge Charger you owned as your first car. If it were me, I would be low-key annoyed the entire time seeing as how that truck was probably something I loaned out from the company and now I'm stuck with the beat-up old car without power steering, back up camera, or anti-theft device.

Mike Matei and James were asking debating it and Mike was going 'did Han die like a chump?' and James went 'well he was trying to save his son'.

It's a bit of the worst of both worlds in the end I think. At t he time I thought it was ok, but it ended up like Kirk dying on that bridge. Have those guys go out in a big way or just retire in peace. (Kirk's was worse though, dying over unseen planet that he had zero connection to).

And ETA, I think these AI things are a lot like how people in year 1500 reacted to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights

I both love it and hate it at the same time.

 

[Male Idiot]

This is both the coolest Star Wars related thing I've seen in a long time, and also by far the creepiest. AI's going to be able to make full movies of stuff like this soon. Wild.

The ANH one is a little too goofy, but still nice.

Unironically looks better than any Disney goyslop. The AI needs to work on moving objects, but that's it
Give it ten years.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

​

....Lol. As fucking if. These people couldn't even manage decent choreography for their mainline fucking movies--and everything from the Kenobi series to Ahsoka demonstrates that the TV shows produce worse lightsaber duels than the literal fanfilms littering YouTube.

Fuck, that Echo series on Marvel Spotlight had a higher budget than this upcoming Acolyte show, and THAT show's "kewl and epic" fight choreography was like watching two drunk monkeys fight under mood lighting.

 

[Ghostse]

and everything from the Kenobi series to Ahsoka demonstrates that the TV shows produce worse lightsaber duels than the literal fanfilms littering YouTube.

I give TV shows a pretty wide latitude on their fight sequences. They don't have the budget, can't take as long to choreograph, and have to be careful with not damaging a principal since a 6 month delay or replacement isn't a viable option.

That said, I disagree with nothing in your post. The Didney films were awful, just abysmal, with their fights (and fleet battles too but that's another story) and there is zero hope that some retard in a wokie passion play will approach the worst Prequel saber play. Hell, they probably won't even top ANH's.