Taylor Swift - Love her, hate her, discuss her. We have a Swifties thread in Community Watch.

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Best Album/Era?

  • Taylor Swift (Self Titled Debut Album)

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Fearless

    Votes: 7 10.8%
  • Speak Now

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Red

    Votes: 6 9.2%
  • 1989

    Votes: 19 29.2%
  • Reputation

    Votes: 3 4.6%
  • Lover

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Folklore & Evermore

    Votes: 9 13.8%
  • Midnights

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • We're living in it as we speak.

    Votes: 10 15.4%

  • Total voters
    65
But why the fuck you care about what teenage girls like? It's a really embarrassing for a grown man to brag about having better music taste than a 13 year old girl. You clearly are the one who needs validation here.
What he's trying to say is that kids who are teenagers in the '80s and '90s grew up with better taste since the music was of higher quality. Yeah there still was a lot of Pop garbage floating around but at least that was melodic and enjoyable.
 
What he's trying to say is that kids who are teenagers in the '80s and '90s grew up with better taste since the music was of higher quality. Yeah there still was a lot of Pop garbage floating around but at least that was melodic and enjoyable.
No he wasn't making it a generational thing at all, he specifically said that it's a gendered thing. He said him and his sister who were teenagers at the same time liked different music and his music was better because she listened to boybands which he deems stupid. Also "good music" is extremely subjective. Just let people enjoy things without being an asshole about it, why is that so hard?

Like I don't like strawberry ice cream at all, instead I like mint chocolate chip. Do I go around telling everyone that mint chocolate chip is the only good flavor of ice cream and everyone who likes Strawberry has bad taste? No because that's fucking retarded.
 
In preparation for my stream, I have listened to all 31 tracks on The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology. I was curious why people were so pissed so I listened to this for 2 fucking hours. Here's the verdict.


The songs are very well produced and everything is flawlessly mixed and very professional. There's no way to fault her production. It is impossible to say her music is outright bad.

What is torturous about this album is that, at least in the first half, there is almost no variety. Each track is similar to the last. She never really flexes her range or goes out of this comfortably restrained zone. There's also no shifts. The songs don't usually pick up or slow down, and if they do it is not by much. I'm trying not to sound needlessly derisive, but at times it sounds like unnecessarily good slam poetry to a beat. She's mostly just telling a story to music without using the medium to help with her storytelling.

It wasn't until Song #13 (I Can Do with a Broken Heart) where there's actually a key change and she's singing differently in the second half of the song. Song #14 (The Smallest Man in the World) also does this, but I swear to god no other song before that does. It's the same beat and pace the entire time. #8 (Florida!!!) is probably my favorite in the first half because it features Florence + the Machine, and just having her on really breaks up the album because it's another voice aside from Taylor's.

But what inhibits me from actually enjoying this even as background music is that every single song is about breakups. I know that's a meme with her but without exaggeration every song is about a man.

I didn't know what the difference between The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology and the version without "The Anthology" was. There's 15 more songs on The Anthology and I was debating if maybe there were two different masters put out. I actually looked this up and apparently they're the exact same fucking thing except Anthology is longer.

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What really gets me about this post is that I would absolutely not explain this listening experience as cohesive brilliance. It's actually really jarring to hear a song about a breakup with a man and then hear another song about a breakup with a man. Like I know that Taylor Swift is a real person and she's in a long-term relationship with football man. The album would give me the impression that they have an extremely toxic, abusive relationship and she is psychologically abusive, if I didn't think the songs are just made for money.

While listening I was thinking how they all felt like different pitches at the same kind of single. Like, imagine an order comes down from Hollywood that we need 10 new hit singles. We need a heartbreak song for women. TayTay puts together 15 songs to try and knock this out.

There are some albums which are a listening experience. You sit down and actually play it from song to song and you can feel how they complement each other and set a tone. An album can also inform you about where an artist is when you composed the record. I really don't feel like I know anything more about Taylor Swift now than I did before.


In the second half now, #19 is The Albatross which now my favorite song from the album. It sounds a lot different from the rest and actually has some meaning and introspection. It actually feels like this is how she actually feels.

I'd also like to point out how many of her track names sound like meme references.
  • #1 Fortnight
  • #4 Down Bad
  • #11 I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
  • #25 I Look In People's Windows

#23 is the song I Hate it Here where she says, paraphrasing: "When I was a kid my friends would play a game where we pick a time in history to travel back to and I'd pick the 1830s without the racists so I could be sold off to the highest bidder, and then my friends got weirded out". The rest of the song is about escapism. It's kind of hard to care about that lyric because the entire story is way more weird than Taylor just not wanting to be around racists. Like, if she could go back to 1830s and be sold off to an exotic lord from the Far East and not just white guys that'd be fine.

"I Look in People's Windows" is lyrically about as creepy as the Adelle song about showing up at an ex's doorstep to remark about how he's happy and has a wife and children. It's literally just about looking through windows to make sure he's not moving on. Though it's probably her best singing? Like she actually sings in this instead of just sing-speaking. It reminds me somewhat of Imogen Heap without the reverb.

Taylor writes her own lyrics and sometimes she can be an awkward writer. The "Everybody is a sexy baby" from Antihero is popular and my mom always hated Love Story because in the story both Romeo and Juliet fucking die. That's just a quirk of her music and is one of the most humanizing things about the album.


Though now at the end I feel like I get what her appeal is: It's a catharsis. A teenage girl processing her first heartbreak, something no one has the right equipment to handle until they experience it firsthand, will listen to this song sprawled out on her bed, iPhone with TayTay in one hand and tissuebox at the ready by the left.

They're not literally all about breakup, it's this sort of: "There's issues, I wish things would change, I'm unhappy, but I'm not always unhappy, and also if we break up then I'd be proving haters right, and I'd be pissed if we broke up and then you upgraded". Each of these waffling emotions is a different song, which just sounds like a breakup to men. These are not really thoughts men have, and teenage boys processes breakups like "Grug hate you but Grug peepee get hard", and "maybe Grug kill self?".


TL;DR: This is an album for teenage girls. If you're a man you are not the target audience of this album and you will not enjoy it. The production quality is high but the songs are very samey. I liked Albatross and Florida!!!. There's nothing in this album to be upset about.
 
There's nothing in this album to be upset about.
the only thing to be upset about is how not upsetting it is. very milquetoast. But that's to be expected from commercial pop music, i guess.

I understand that some teenage girls love her but I find using teenage girls as a defense kind of undersells the taste of teenage girls. SSome of us listened to music that may or may not have been awful but wasn't at least so mediocre and boring:geek:
 
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Quite frankly I'm more interested in the Grug anthology. Not because it's good but because both Grug and Grug's fanbase have a more fun kind of brain damage than Taylor and the Swifties. Can't wait to read Null's review.
 
Just remember there was a time that pop music was not this basic in that '70s and 80s. It was fused together with other contemporary styles like metal, r&b, and progressive rock. Just take a look at Genesis, they got their stuff on top 40 radio but it still had a lot of risk-taking in the music. Nowadays everything's a cookie cutter of the saved verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus formula that's been formulated by swedish songwriters like Max Martin and to a lesser extent Dr Luke, that with the Advent of auto-tune and pro tools all music is is just cut up samples and not an actual band or even a real instrument anymore.

If only Taylor Swift would have gone the route of say alternative country musician lucena Williams mixing a little bit of some alt blues and folk elements she could have elevated herself to being a force reckoned with and still have talent. But instead she went the route of Shania Twain and went completely pop.
 
Well that's disappointing. I know Taylor Swift is too big to fail right now and this is going to sell like hotcakes no matter what, but, like, come ON!! Imagine being the best known pop star in the English speaking world and using that status to put out something so totally utterly mind-shatteringly TAME. (again!!)

No, the production isn't good. Good production is supposed to give life to a song; what we get here is the exact same minimalist spacey alt-pop schlock we've had mercilessly shoveled into our ears since Lorde broke onto the scene eleven whole ass years ago. Aside from a few nicer moments, like the string flourishes on Who's Afraid, or the guitar slides on I Can Fix Him, the whole thing is embarrassingly barebones and derivative. When pop culture is in such a dark place, it's infinitely more offensive to release something this dull than something that at least has the audacity to suck properly.

The worst part is I know she can do (and has done) so much better. I want to be a Taylor defender so bad, but if this is what she's going to put out at the height of her fame, I don't think I have it in me. Folklore was good. 1989 was great. This album exists purely to pay the private jet bills by selling more overpriced pieces of stamped vinyl to gullible 16-year-olds. Teenage girls deserve more, tbh.
 
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Well that's disappointing. I know Taylor Swift is too big to fail right now and this is going to sell like hotcakes no matter what, but, like, come ON!! Imagine being the best known pop star in the English speaking world and using that status to put out something so totally utterly mind-shatteringly TAME. (again!!)

No, the production isn't good. Good production is supposed to give life to a song; what we get here is the exact same minimalist spacey alt-pop schlock we've had mercilessly shoveled into our ears since Lorde broke onto the scene eleven whole ass years ago. Aside from a few nicer moments, like the string flourishes on Who's Afraid, or the guitar slides on I Can Fix Him, the whole thing is embarrassingly barebones and derivative. When pop culture is in such a dark place, it's infinitely more offensive to release something this dull than something that at least has the audacity to suck properly.

The worst part is I know she can do (and has done) so much better. I want to be a Taylor defender so bad, but if this is what she's going to put out at the height of her fame, I don't think I have it in me. Folklore was good. 1989 was great. This album exists purely to pay the private jet bills by selling more overpriced pieces of stamped vinyl to gullible 16-year-olds. Teenage girls deserve more, tbh.
I blame one person for why the mix sounds really shit not just current year but also since the beginning of the millennium:
SERBAN GHENEA
 

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What he's trying to say is that kids who are teenagers in the '80s and '90s grew up with better taste since the music was of higher quality. Yeah there still was a lot of Pop garbage floating around but at least that was melodic and enjoyable.
IOW, people angry at popular thing being popular at the expense of niche thing they like. This has been levied at every era of music for decades.
 
I blame one person for why the mix sounds really shit not just current year but also since the beginning of the millennium:
SERBAN GHENEA
No, pop music was super fun and diverse up until, like, 2016 when top 40 radio went to shit. These days the situation's gotten so dire I can't name a single song that's charting. I don't know whether to blame Spotify or TikTok or if it's just evil moon spirits sucking the joy out of everything again.
 
i mean you'd think that wouldn't be news but the 40-year-old men upset that Taylor album doesn't appeal to them didn't seem to get the memo.
Well take a look at Dolly Parton she's able to have massive cross appeal with both men and women (been mostly due to her huge milkers) and was able to cross over multiple times I think her cover of stairway to heaven is one that could rival Led Zeppelin version.
 
Well take a look at Dolly Parton she's able to have massive cross appeal with both men and women (been mostly due to her huge milkers) and was able to cross over multiple times I think her cover of stairway to heaven is one that could rival Led Zeppelin version.
Question, if Rammstein didn't want to appeal to women would this be a valid criticism still
 
Question, if Rammstein didn't want to appeal to women would this be a valid criticism still
Well it just so happens that there are female Rammstein fans. At least they don't just write breakup songs with pop culture references. That's why I usually fuck with the juggalos cuz at least their music is something that none of the normies could ever take in.
 
No, pop music was super fun and diverse up until, like, 2016 when top 40 radio went to shit. These days the situation's gotten so dire I can't name a single song that's charting. I don't know whether to blame Spotify or TikTok or if it's just evil moon spirits sucking the joy out of everything again.
Prior to 2016, all pop music was watered down Swedish house "pump up the jam" Disney Channel shit. It all sounded the same back then.
 
I will not tolerate “Pump Up The Jam” slander. Those European beats songs can actually be pretty entertaining. You can get a whole wedding dancing.
If you really want a smoking gun of where pop music and music in general started to go down hill. Look no further than the introduction of Nielsen soundscan started on: November 30, 1991
(for Billboard top 100)
 
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