Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Amusing how Disney/LFL will defecate on the characters of the Expanded Universe, but will waste no time at all to whore them out for merchandise like their Sideshow or Hot Toys Figure Line.

I guess those Ahsoka and Book of Boba Fett-themed figures weren't moving enough stock at the Hot Toys Warehouse.
It's good looking merch too and that's what really rubs it in. These people are fully capable of making something cool, but whoever is on top of the pyramid is obsessed with deconstructions and an endless series of spinoffs to justify the sequels.
 
Meanwhile I've decided to read NJO and the subsequent novels all the way through, because I'm too mentally tired for serious reading, or even for digging into a fictional universe I'm not already familiar with. Before I only skimmed haphazardly through some of these books, either because my standards were higher, or because there were more space opera and fantasy classics yet unread. Currently at Dark Tide II.

A few observations so far:

(1)A more careful read so far is confirming my earlier general impressions. The biggest problem of NJO is Vong just not being bad enough dudes to serve as a galactic threat. As far as an extragalactic invasion forces in space operas go, they are not as inept as Tyranids, and as far as opponents in Star Wars go they score more victories (if bloody and costly) than the Imperials from the preceding EU books, but these are not exactly high standards. They and their personal weapons are designed to be credible opponents to the Jedi, and do so well enough, but, you know, it would be nice if the rest of their tech was not adapted to and countered as early as the second book in the series.

(2)Jacen Solo was set up for his eventual fate as early as Dark Tide I. You could miss foreshadowing if you did not pay attention, and nearly all readers probably did. But with hindsight, it is obvious that he was the problematic one among Solo kids from the start. Between mistaking Force visions for reality, and relying on his ability to detect emotions to discern bad people, his vulnerability is even too obvious. Anakin Solo, by comparison, is depicted as merely using the Force too casually for everyday tasks.
 
(1)A more careful read so far is confirming my earlier general impressions. The biggest problem of NJO is Vong just not being bad enough dudes to serve as a galactic threat. As far as an extragalactic invasion forces in space operas go, they are not as inept as Tyranids, and as far as opponents in Star Wars go they score more victories (if bloody and costly) than the Imperials from the preceding EU books, but these are not exactly high standards. They and their personal weapons are designed to be credible opponents to the Jedi, and do so well enough, but, you know, it would be nice if the rest of their tech was not adapted to and countered as early as the second book in the series.
This is unfortunately a problem that permeated the NJO series as a whole. The Yuuzhan Vong are my favorite alien species, but I feel like the greatest aspect they had (and would be embellished in further books past Dark Tide) was the ideological threat that they posed to the Jedi. Their culture and rabid religious fanatacism made them an excellent departure from past threats, and spawned some super interesting characters like Nom Anor, Nen Yim, and Tsavong Lah, just to name a few. Unfortunately, their biggest weakness is that the writers couldn't decide on how powerful/efficient the Vong's tech or battle prowess could be between books. Sometimes their tech is utterly decimating, like decimating entire worlds like Ithor and Duros, dismantling moons from orbit, or developing bioweapons that slaughter countless Jedi...then in other books, they're completely steamrolled by shit that wouldn't even graze them in prior books, or the Jedi characters can dispatch them by using the Force to drop the roof on them, or some contrived shit. One minute their ships are so deadly that they require haphazard Imperial prototype craft to properly counter, and then the next minute the Jedi are developing Force Techniques to manually guide missiles around Vongcraft shields. It would be one thing if this stuff happened naturally and over an organic build-up across the series, but a lot of these developments and countermeasures happen at breakneck speed in the early books, way sooner than they should. Even the discovery and implementation of Zonama Sekot happens EXTREMELY quickly, and kind of comes out of left field.

I think a lot of this has less to do with poor planning, and more with the constantly shifting number of books mandated by Del Rey as the publisher. Keep in mind that James Luceno and the Del Rey editors were using a series bible to catalogue all major developments of the series---including premeditated decisions set in stone back in 1998, like who lives, who dies, how the Vong are ultimately defeated, etc. But given the widely-reported editorial hijinks of Del Rey promising a 25-book saga one moment, the 22 books later, then 25 again, and then ultimately 19, you had books cancelled (or in the case of Dark Tide and Agents of Chaos, split from one book to two on short-notice). I think any series, no matter how well planned out, is going to have the pacing of its events fucked by that amount of editorial monkeying.

I'd say probably the most sound and organic development when it comes to factors that defeated the Vong was the spiritual insurrection and unveiling conspiracy of the Vong Religion being a lie. That was unfurled and executed over something like five or six books, and was done with believable execution and all the right characters involved (including my favorite Vong character, Nen Yim). This spoke to the thematic subtext of NJO as a whole, and unlike a lot of the seemingly-boiler plate ways that the Vong would be undermined as a whole, I'd say this one happened at a very good pace.

Having said all of this, I still think the final battle depicted in Unifying Force made up for all of these shortcomings. The space battle of the combined Alliance-Imperial Forces against the Vong Fleet, the surprise appearance of Boba Fett and the Mandalorians, Luke and his students battling the Vong equivalent of the Knight Templars, the explosive duel between Luke and Shimmra, and the amazing confrontation with Jacen, offered a huge sense of catharsis and finality to the Vong War.

I think NJO really is emblematic of the post-Endor story arcs: often uneven in terms of lead-up, greater than the sum of their parts, but often compensating by sticking the landing.

(2)Jacen Solo was set up for his eventual fate as early as Dark Tide I. You could miss foreshadowing if you did not pay attention, and nearly all readers probably did. But with hindsight, it is obvious that he was the problematic one among Solo kids from the start. Between mistaking Force visions for reality, and relying on his ability to detect emotions to discern bad people, his vulnerability is even too obvious. Anakin Solo, by comparison, is depicted as merely using the Force too casually for everyday tasks.
I love Jacen Solo's Dark Side journey tremendously, but it would be inaccurate and revisionist to claim that his fall was "set up" by the authors. The Del Rey Editors, James Luceno, and everyone who worked on NJO at the time have reiterated several times that Jacen falling to the dark side was not something they had initially planned during the planning or writing stages of that series. They just lucked out that when they were considering taking Jacen in that direction much later on, they had a lot of unintentionally organic narrative track they could use as precedent. They revisited scenes and aspects of Jacen's character in NJO and found that they could all lend themselves as milestone moments that led to his Dark Side turn, in the same way Lucas found he could recontextualize prior scenes like this that suddenly worked in his favor when he was writing Vader's identity in ESB. Old scenes now had new meaning, and the Del Rey authors used them as sound justification for where Jacen ends up. It's just sheer luck that it ended up flowing as organically as it did...so much so that new readers or even people revisiting NJO after many years see these scenes, and mistake them as having set up Jacen's Fall from the beginning, when it was all purely accidental.

It's also worth mentioning that, at the time, Jacen's characterization in NJO as a ponderous, troubled, philosophical and angsty character was already a big departure from his depiction in Young Jedi Knights, who was a goofy kid who chased after animals and annoyed his sister with lame jokes. But this is another thing that would retroactively work in favor of Jacen's overall arc, as the wild differences between each phase of his life would help make his journey throughout the EU seem more like an organic evolution based on where he was at each respective stage in life---the happy-go-lucky teenager in the backdrop of Academy shenanigans during Young Jedi Knights, the indecisive and angsty philosopher to be soon groomed by traumatic wartime experiences in New Jedi Order, the contemplative and shadowy outsider to the Jedi Council in Dark Nest---and finally, the driven father and despotic tyrant with an uncompromising messiah complex in Legacy of the Force. The final book featuring Jacen, Invincible, even attempted to bring his evolution full circle by incorporating Teen Jacen's corny jokes from Young Jedi Knights as chapter headliners, as a melancholic way to say goodbye to the character...which really pulled on my heartstrings reading that book.

Another thing that cemented Jacen's Downfall is how many different creators were itching to see the character go dark as a natural outcome of his life experiences in the NJO series, not just the Del Rey editors. Haden Blackman, who wrote the Darth Vader comics and later wrote The Force Unleashed, actually pitched a game to LucasArts called Episode VII: Shadows of the Sith wherein Luke Skywalker's son, Ben, would face off against Jacen as the game's Dark Side antagonist...a pitch Blackman made in 2003, literally the same year New Jedi Order came to an end.

So it was numerous people from all over LFL advocating for this character to go dark, not just the Del Rey Editors and authors, well in advance of the books where that creative direction would be made official.

Is that AI Generated or just a bad looking render of what the figures are supposed to resemble?, becuase that Luke's face looks so.... wrong in that first image.
It's because they're using the ANH head sculpt, which in its Hot Toys form is a bit...effeminate, to say the least. And unsuitable, not least of which because the Dark Empire version of Luke should look older, or at the very least closer to ROTJ, considering Dark Empire is set 10 years after the events of that film.
 
The Vong didn't really seem like an ideological threat to the Jedi from where I'm standing. From the outside, they seem positively evil, rarely even showing ideas of mercy or kindness, and the ones who seem like they could be saved are branded as ''heretics'', so I wouldn't be surprised if the Jedi just wanted to eradicate them all like they tried to do to the Sith for 5000 years.

An ideological threat would be something along the lines of Count Dooku as a Jedi Master suddenly realizing he annihilated the wrong Mandalorians, since that actually made the Jedi look stupid. With the Vong, they're just evil, simple as. All a Jedi would do in that situation is find a weakness and exploit it, since the Vong show no outward signs of being redeemable; they make Palpatine look saintly by comparison.

That, and we did have Force powers in past books like Dark Empire and the Thrawn Trilogy which would've been devastating to use against the Vong, like Battle Meditation and Force Storm, so the fact that they weren't used gives the audience the impression that Luke and friends have a sort of collective amnesia, especially if you did read those books and realize that Luke and friends were on the receiving end of those powers.

Usually, that doesn't bother me, because the SW novels are written by authors who usually pay attention to their own work and little else outside, but the SWEU is supposed to be one continuity, so the good guys suddenly forgetting they can sap the strength out of an enemy that uses biological ships and tech or summon a large Force hurricane that can decimate the Vong fleet seems like they forgot a huge chunk of their own history. And recent history at that, since Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire took place AFTER the OT movies, so this isn't some ancient history like Tales of the Jedi or something.

small minded: thinking Star Wars physics is accurate

normal brain: knowing that Star Wars physics is unrealistic

galaxy brain: making up hypotheses to make Star Wars physics viable
The third is what a lot of technobabble writers for SW did for a living.
 
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Battle Meditation was invented by Zahn to give military autists an explanation why the Imperials failed to just overwhelm the Rebel fleet at Endor with numbers, regardless of what happens on the Death Star. Joruus C'baoth used it too, but he was an insane darksider. Not until KotOR I we learned that Jedi can use it at all, on a big enough scale to make an actual impact, and it won't backfire, like it did for the Imperials at Endor and was about to for Thrawn's clone troops. As for Palps' humongous powerlevel feats, they even more clearly required active hatred and malice and could only be employed to destroy things, if he could not use his power for something as small as levitating himself out of the shaft. So, you really had to be a space Satan to use that stuff.

Now, in post-Endor EU books Jedi had one big dick Force feat, pushing an Imperial fleet out of the Yavin system and disabling it in Darksaber. As you might guess, it was written by KJA. And just like Suncrusher, that incident was subsequently treated as a total outlier.

In short, the typical Jedi powerlevel in pre-NJO novels never settled the point where they could have won a major war by naked Force. And with Vong being (a) an outside context problem and (b)immune to subtler Force manipulations, they obviously could not do their usual routine of disrupting the enemy by surgical action.
 
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A more careful read so far is confirming my earlier general impressions. The biggest problem of NJO is Vong just not being bad enough dudes to serve as a galactic threat. As far as an extragalactic invasion forces in space operas go, they are not as inept as Tyranids, and as far as opponents in Star Wars go they score more victories (if bloody and costly) than the Imperials from the preceding EU books, but these are not exactly high standards.
The Vong are just a soupcon of geriatric sci-fi tropes with a Star Wars-y coat of paint. Insanely dogmatic aliens following a monolithic fake religion that forces them to have obvious exploitable weaknesses? Biotechnology that really just functions like regular technology but wetter?
They and their personal weapons are designed to be credible opponents to the Jedi, and do so well enough, but, you know, it would be nice if the rest of their tech was not adapted to and countered as early as the second book in the series.
It would have been okay if their retarded dogma didn't forbid them from counter-adapting in many ways. In Stargate, the Goa'uld aren't actually against innovation, and some (Nirrti, Baal, and Anubis) are quite good at it. Their medieval stasis and fake religion are functional things, not just Golden Age of Sci-fi cliches deployed forty years after their sell-by date.
Now, in post-Endor EU books Jedi had one big dick Force feat, pushing an Imperial fleet out of the Yavin system and disabling it in Darksaber. As you might guess, it was written by KJA. And just like Suncrusher, that incident was subsequently treated as a total outlier.
In one of the early NJO books, Kyp takes out a Vong ship by grabbing one of its artificial black holes and throwing it. Which is funny, because black holes being the ultimate fixed point that even he couldn't effect was part of the Jedi Acadrmy Trilogy's conclusion.
 
Eh, I always figured that aliens just took humans from Earth's past, and let them have technology.

Like a Rakata explorer Ashokad into another galaxy, raided a few neolithic villages, blam.

History Holonet: Rakata destroyed Atlantis and Lemuria!
I kind of like the idea that humanity came from escapees from THX-1138. It is a way of honor Lucas’s work since we would not have Star Wars without his directorial debut movie.

Otherwise, I’m fine with humanity not having a specific origin point. Just one of the mysteries of the galaxy. Although I prefer Courscant being a colonized planet and inadvertently creating the Mandalorians through the exiled Taung. Gives motivation for the Mandalorians fighting with the Old Republic.
 
As I've said a million times, and will doubtlessly say a million times again in the future: Decanonization is a shield, and I want that shield to stay up.

Declaring the expanded universe non canon is still the best decision the company did with the brand. Not for the right reasons but it unintentionally worked all in our favor.
Welp.
RIP Scorch 2011-2024. Barely lasted a second against the Delta Squad 2.0
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This is a fucking humiliation ritual and they are all damn in on it.
Yeah they're burying the Clone Commandos just like TCW buried the ARC Troopers. All to make Filoni's dumb OCs look better.


I pray they never touch Captain Fordo. Guy running out of ammo is just an inconvenience.

I miss when the clones were like flesh and blood terminators, just a couple of them could take on huge group of droids. They made the Jedi be glad they were on the same side...until they werent.

Now the clones are god damn sissies, I swear to God.
Not a day goes by I'm not happy I never got into the cartoons. "I have no idea what an Asokha Tano is, and I have no intention of learning."

After the Gendy series, I was like, "Why is everyone soo 3D and action figure-y now?"
 
Battle Meditation was invented by Zahn to give military autists an explanation why the Imperials failed to just overwhelm the Rebel fleet at Endor with numbers, regardless of what happens on the Death Star. Joruus C'baoth used it too, but he was an insane darksider.
Actually, Luke described Master C'baoth as insane, but not a Darksider. It's not outwardly a Dark Side power since it's just an extension of the mind-trick, except applied to a whole battlefield to strengthen one side and sap the will from the other.

Not until KotOR I we learned that Jedi can use it at all, on a big enough scale to make an actual impact, and it won't backfire, like it did for the Imperials at Endor and was about to for Thrawn's clone troops. As for Palps' humongous powerlevel feats, they even more clearly required active hatred and malice and could only be employed to destroy things, if he could not use his power for something as small as levitating himself out of the shaft. So, you really had to be a space Satan to use that stuff.
Not really. The Force works through both emotions and through the mind. A Jedi can still use Force Lightning without sinking to the depths of anger that the Emperor had. Hell, Luke used his father's traditional Force choke attack in ROTJ, and he's got more light and hope in him than the entire Jedi Council ever had. Also, I seem to remember some of the Solo kids used Force lightning on the Vong, and they weren't anywhere near the Dark Side back then. Jaina used it in Star by Star, and in Traitor, Jacen Solo used it. If they can use Force Lightning and Choke without becoming space crack addicts, I'm sure Force Storm isn't out of the picture.

The prevailing attitude towards the Force during the late 90s and the 2000s when these books were written is that the Dark Side and Light Side of the Force aren't inherently good or evil, it's what you use them for that counts. This is why we see in both the books and the games Jedi being able to use Dark Side powers without falling into the Dark Side, because they don't abuse it or lean too heavily towards it; instead of falling to the Dark Side and becoming its servant, they beat it down and command it, and if I'm to surmise a reason why they don't get corrupted, it's their strength of will that allows them to use it without becoming corrupted.

It's the difference between someone drinking beer or smoking a cigar once in a while, instead of becoming an alcoholic or a tobacco addict with a black lung. Someone like Jaina or Luke are the former, Palpatine and Vader are the latter. It's the attitude that I consider to be canon, since the mid-2000s was the last time Lucas was heavily involved with Star Wars, and that was the prevailing attitude at the time. Especially since they wrote the Jedi to be intentionally flawed in the Prequels to explain why Palpatine rose to power in the first place.

Palpatine is corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force because he leans too much towards the Dark Side and he uses it for evil. His face looks like a shriveled prune because he's allowed his hatred and anger to corrupt his mind and flesh. Meanwhile, Starkiller throws just as much lightning as Palpatine, if not more, but he fights for the sake of hope and love, so his face still looks handsome instead of looking like a boiled cow hemorrhoid, since the thoughts and emotions that energize him are positive rather than negative.

The Jedi Council in the Prequels leaned heavily on the Light, but they became detached and apathetic towards the needs of the people, hence why they were beginning to lose their connection to the Force and Order 66 goes on without so much as a fuss from the public. Almost as if the Light itself was slowly deserting them despite their orthodoxy in believing in it. The fact that Luke Skywalker had more compassion than Yoda did meant that his connection to the Light was stronger than Yoda's. Yoda wanted Luke to be an emotionless assassin, Palpatine wanted Luke to become a rage-monster. Neither of which were good for Luke, and Luke knew that.

If you use Force Lightning to say, activate a machine that saves lives, that doesn't turn you into the Force equivalent of a demon, although the Force equivalent of a demon will be throwing lighting in your face like it's going out of style, if it isn't choking you, life-draining you, or smacking you around, because it wants to use the Force aggressively, like a weapon. The old Jedi Order's mistake was assuming that everyone who uses the Dark Side is a slave to it, whereas the New Jedi Order under Luke does not share the same belief and thinks you can use Force powers offensively so long as you remain in control of the Dark Side and don't let it consume you, which we know is a possibility in both the EU and the films.

Now, in post-Endor EU books Jedi had one big dick Force feat, pushing an Imperial fleet out of the Yavin system and disabling it in Darksaber. As you might guess, it was written by KJA. And just like Suncrusher, that incident was subsequently treated as a total outlier.

In short, the typical Jedi powerlevel in pre-NJO novels never settled the point where they could have won a major war by naked Force. And with Vong being (a) an outside context problem and (b)immune to subtler Force manipulations, they obviously could not do their usual routine of disrupting the enemy by surgical action.
I'm not so sure that the Vong are immune to subtle Force manipulations, considering that
their leader is victim of such manipulation by his court jester. The last Force-sensitive Yuuzhan Vong is using the Force to mind-control the Vong high command and steer them to his purpose; Shimrra is not the real big cheese, he's just the public face of their operations.
With that in mind, yes, Battle Meditation would definitely work on them, since it's the same thing, but just magnified.
 
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I mean more like Rainbow 6 sort of building/equiping your squads and giving them orders not just your immediate team or pinging objectives for bots. Coordinating three squads bursting into the Tantive IV including having a group of mad-lads breeching the cockpit bridge. Shit would be pretty Kino. Thankfully Didney will never make this.

On the Rebel Alliance side of the house there's a million sabotage or prison break missions you could dream up. Have the ability to deploy troopers of different race with different abilities. Like always putting the Bothans on point.
My dream for this game would be for it to be single player/coop where you'd start as a Stormtrooper doing very menial things such as stopping slavers and gangsters before you're fighting in fully mechanized battles against the rebels by the end of the game.

On the subject of vidya games I am still shocked Disney isn't trying to make an Arc Trooper version of Hell Divers 2 or another Star Wars boomer shooter when you see how popular both are right now. I know we got that Dark Forces remaster but I feel like a Dark Forces 2 remake or new game entirely would sell at least decently.
 
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Amusing how Disney/LFL will defecate on the characters of the Expanded Universe, but will waste no time at all to whore them out for merchandise like their Sideshow or Hot Toys Figure Line.

I guess those Ahsoka and Book of Boba Fett-themed figures weren't moving enough stock at the Hot Toys Warehouse.

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Nah; the Ahsoka and Fett toys are for plebians. These toys are for those who are willing to spend a fortune.

My dream for this game would be for it to be single player/coop where you'd start as a Stormtrooper doing very menial things such as stopping slavers and gangsters before you're fighting in fully mechanized battles against the rebels by the end of the game.
So basically, TIE Fighter, but for the infantry. Quaint.

On the subject of vidya games I am still shocked Disney isn't trying to make an Arc Trooper version of Hell Divers 2 or another Star Wars boomer shooter when you see how popular both are right now. I know we got that Dark Forces remaster but I feel like a Dark Forces 2 remake or new game entirely would sell at least decently.
Imagine if they made a game where you're a Dark Trooper dropping into a hostile, anti-Imperial world, populated by either rebels or some alien race that despises the Empire. It's your job to annihilate them man-to-man, and you get everything from E-11 blasters to plasma-based Assault Cannons, Stouker Concussion rifles, blaster shotguns, and arc casters. Imperial propaganda paints you as ''liberating'' these accursed worlds, and you go from planet to planet annihilating all resistance as Rohm Mohc tries to sell the Dark Trooper idea to Darth Vader and the other Imperial higher-ups.
 
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Hello, Mississippi here with your annual reminder that actual Star Wars Day is on May 25th, and that "May 4" is a retarded meme holiday where nothing of any historical or production significance related to Star Wars happened, and only exists to be commodified by the Rat to sell worthless merchandise, and Consoomer shills to post soyjak selfie pics with their dogs dressed as Baby Yoda all over the cavernous bowels of social media.

That is all. Resume your loresperging.
 
In one of the early NJO books, Kyp takes out a Vong ship by grabbing one of its artificial black holes and throwing it. Which is funny, because black holes being the ultimate fixed point that even he couldn't effect was part of the Jedi Acadrmy Trilogy's conclusion.
he got good

on the subject of NJO the ending part where it goes full shonenshit was wonderfully dumb and great
 
Was there any anticipation for Clone Wars: Tale of Minor Characters? I can kind of see people being interested in where Padawan Terrorist Barriss ends up, but who the fuck cares about the backstory of the lady from Mando (who was apparently a night sister)?

Twitter Hype: "Three episodes of a show dedicated to Barriss Offee is gonna be intense -- we'll probably see her face off with Luminara, or reconcile with Ahsoka and how she works with the Empire."

According to reddit: Barriss switches sides after one episode, Ahsoka is only alluded to, Barriss never does anything morally bad, and most of her life is skipped to her being an old hermit helping escaping jedi on some random planet while her terrorist actions are swept under the rug.

I would brag about being right, but Filoni is pretty predictable at this point.
 
So Morgan was the one who invented the TIE Defenders in this continuity, not Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin.

Problem is, if it was in development that early, before Thrawn became a Grand Admiral, Vader would've gotten wind of it and used his influence to push the Emperor to do it. Hell, in the Rebels cartoon, Tarkin was pushing for it over the Death Star. So if Tarkin and Vader found out about it, and they would've, given the amount of surveillance going around in the Empire, they would've approved of Morgan's plans and given her all the funding she'd need.

This is why Anakin made sure to kill Shak-Ti several times; he had to make sure.
And yet she survived, so Anakin sent his second apprentice to make sure she was dead.
 
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According to reddit: Barriss switches sides after one episode, Ahsoka is only alluded to, Barriss never does anything morally bad, and most of her life is skipped to her being an old hermit helping escaping jedi on some random planet while her terrorist actions are swept under the rug.
the shock. I'm completely blown away. who could have seen that twist coming.

At this rate there will only be a half-dozen Jedi that the Empire killed during Order 66.
Looks like you're waking up to the Jedish lie of Order 66.
There was no Order 66, there more jedi alive AFTER the supposed "order 66" than before it.
A fun game to play, go up to the next person talking about bad "Muh Order Six-Six" was and ask them if Order 66 was a Brain Chip put in or simply part of their onboarding. Then watch them and their fellow mindtricked bantha-brains tear each other apart or which one it is.

From Coruscant To Tattooine, From Incel Meddling we will be Free
 
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