2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

[World in Scarlet]

like, show me a single land war that did not involve death, starvation, great suffering, and serious injury to the civilian population? you can't, because it's impossible.

The difference is one between those being a side effect of the hostilities, vs them being intentional. Like how it is acceptable to kill some civilians while striking a military target, but it is not acceptable to target civilians directly.
It is to some degree unavoidable that the civilian population suffers when combat takes place around them, but it is the responsibility of the armies to minimize the harm.
Israel not only did little to alleviate it (even aid provided by third parties FOR FREE was interfered with, to the level of deliberately killing foreign aid workers repeatedly), but also aggravated it through widespread destruction of infrastructure.
That's why I think it would be difficult to argue that the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is not the result of deliberate Israeli government policy.

So the court disagrees with the posters of this thread about the morality and legality of it, but is there a disagreement about the facts?

 

[DumbDude43]

So the court disagrees with the posters of this thread about the morality and legality of it, but is there a disagreement about the facts?

probably not
israel is waging war in gaza, and as a result the local population suffers, that much is certain.
there's probably disagreement about the jews specific objectives and intentions with the war. muslims will say the jews want to genocide them, jews will say they just want to neutralize hamas, but either way somebodys intention isn't something you can prove or disprove as fact (except maybe if you put one of elon musks mind reading microchips in their brains)

 

[Smoke Manmuscle]

plus i'm 99% certain that all the various laws of war contain exceptions that state that a civilian target is considered a valid military target if opposing forces are using it in their operations. in the case of gaza, where hamas militants are holed up in almost every single building, that means you'll have a very hard time convincing anyone of this 'muh war crimes' narrative unless they're already a muslim ballwasher in the first place.

It specifically states that. Also there is no obligation to allow humanitarian aid through your lines for civilians. You have no guarantee it won’t just be snapped up by your enemy.

These “humanitarian organizations” know this and use this as a way to funnel supplies to the enemies of whoever is wrong. This usually translates to the US and it’s allies.

 

[World in Scarlet]

there's probably disagreement about the jews specific objectives and intentions with the war.

Does anyone actually know? It's been 9 months and it seems like little productive has been accomplished. If you want all Palestinians dead - well, nobody is exterminating them and it seems nobody has the will to do it, so it's a non-starter. All this does it poke them in the eye with a stick.

Like, wow, they found a dozen rusty rifles and shot some retards, these will surely not be replaced within a week once the IDF leaves. The blockade didn't prevent October 7th or make it impossible for radicals to wage this conflict since then, and the attempt to completely cut off Gaza has already collapsed in the face of international backlash, during war when it was most justifiable.

---

Also there is no obligation to allow humanitarian aid through your lines for civilians.

The explanation in the arrest warrant includes the relevant statutes:

• Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;

> (xxv) Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions;

There's the expert report that explains some of the reasoning in case you want to read it. link

Here's the part about the aid.



The relevant Geneva articles:

 

[QE65]

This court ruling will probably have the same outcome as it did with the Russia-Ukraine war. Absolutely nothing.

Notwithstanding any military goals they may have, the means Israel chose to achieve them in Gaza – namely, intentionally causing death, starvation, great suffering, and serious injury to body or health of the civilian population – are criminal.

"The means Israel chose to achieve them". I mean, it is war. I don't remember a conflict where the focus on one side administering humanitarian aid has been scrutinized to the same extent. Supplant any other nation into Israel's place and I doubt the result would be any different. If the roles were reversed and Hamas had access to the same materials: sophisticated munitions, armored vehicles, drone surveillance etc. we wouldn't have much to talk about, since Israel would cease to exist. Especially given that, time and time again, the leaders of Hamas and their orbiters tend to say the quite part out loud.

One example, from Fathi Hammad during a speech in 2018.

The Hamas leadership don't care about the civilian population. However many of them suffer and die is immaterial to them. More martyrs for the cause. They do want Israel to stop its offensive though, given that they are being bodied by the IDF. 20/24 of their fighting battalions are gone and they've lost occupation of 75% of Gaza.

Like, wow, they found a dozen rusty rifles and shot some retards, these will surely not be replaced within a week once the IDF leaves.

Time is a flat circle. Here's hoping some Palestinians manage to get hold of them in Qatar so they can give them the Mussolini treatment for this latest bout of suffering and misery.

 

[Mion Sonozaki]

The difference is one between those being a side effect of the hostilities, vs them being intentional. Like how it is acceptable to kill some civilians while striking a military target, but it is not acceptable to target civilians directly.
It is to some degree unavoidable that the civilian population suffers when combat takes place around them, but it is the responsibility of the armies to minimize the harm.

You have to remember we're discussing a conflict where people are seriously arguing that if a combatant drops his gun, he immediately becomes a noncombatant and thus an innocent civilian. Also a lot of the civilian casualties in Gaza are the direct result of Hamas infesting every inch of the place. They've set up HQs in hospitals and underneath buildings nominally meant for international aid (cough UNRWA cough).

Hamas is using its own citizens as meat shields because they know it's bad ops for the Israelis. Why do you think they keep rejecting every ceasefire deal they're given? (except for the one they pulled out of their ass that had only the terms they wanted) They want to prolong the war as much as possible.

Does anyone actually know? It's been 9 months and it seems like little productive has been accomplished.

This is part of why Israel should've just gone "fuck it" and just committed to a full invasion of Gaza right away, or at least way sooner than they did. You can't pussyfoot around in war for the most part, just get it over with.

The relevant Geneva articles:

This part of the "crime" accusation is such bullshit. Israel is not occupying Gaza and has not been involved in their governance since 2005, when they left and the Gazans immediately voted Hamas in.

Anyway, to lighten the mood of the thread, I think we should all pray for the Mossad's downed agent Eli Kopter who heroically sacrificed his life to kill a bunch of actual genociders. Am Yisrael Chai!

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Anyway, to lighten the mood of the thread, I think we should all pray for the Mossad's downed agent Eli Kopter who heroically sacrificed his life to kill a bunch of actual genociders. Am Yisrael Chai!

Buddy, that was a joke. A goof made by Israelis.

 

[Doctor Socrates]

Imagine the seethe if pre-trial judges dropped bibi charges but kept hamas charges

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

This is really what they should have said after the attack you have two days to release the hostages if you do not we will go block to block St. to St. In level everything we will cut off water food medicine and not allow one scrap of aid to get through the artillery barrage

 

[EyeGuy]

Footage from last month of Israeli drones taking out terrorists in Tulkarm:

Yet another operation ongoing in Jenin:

The military says it has launched a counter-terrorism operation in the northern West Bank city of Jenin.

Several gunmen have been shot by troops, the IDF adds.

It says it will provide additional details soon.

PA health ministry: 7 dead in Jenin, 9 wounded, including two seriously.

 

[QE65]

This is part of why Israel should've just gone "fuck it" and just committed to a full invasion of Gaza right away, or at least way sooner than they did. You can't pussyfoot around in war for the most part, just get it over with.

The initial pause was to allow time for the civilian population to evacuate the area. Even so, it didn't turn out too well.

 

[RybenZ999]

>Be Bibi
>Bomb thousands of children
>ICC gives arrest warrant for genocide
>"WTF WE DINDU NUFFIN MUH HOLOCAUST MUH ANTISEMITISM"

 

[EyeGuy]

Gaza:

Jenin:

 

[EyeGuy]

Despite Biden's "no boots on the ground" pledge, American vehicles, in particular a C-RAM system, have been spotted on the Gaza "humanitarian" pier:

Video of the C-RAM in operation:

Are you ready to die for Palestine, goy?

Very disturbing footage (English subtitles) of the kidnapping of five female soldiers on 7/10 was released. Not going to watch it myself, but apparently Pedro Sanchez's pals discuss which ones they want to impregnate:

 

[ViM]

Hamas sniper pulls off the fabled "1 shot 2 kills" collateral. The survivor, apparently unaware of the concept of snipers, stands around aimlessly before executing a perfect frontflip
This is north of Beit Hanoun, literally the first place the IDF entered. Not a great sign for the prospects of success in Rafah.

 

[Breadbassket]

Video of female Israeli spotters being abducted has been released.

Spoiler

Trigger alert –

The video of the female observers’ abduction, is a wake-up call to the civilized world. We must condemn those actions and we can not abandon the hostages held captive for 229 days.

This video, captured by the body cameras of Hamas terrorists on October 7th, has been edited and censored to exclude the most disturbing scenes, such as the numerous murdered young men and women at the Nahal Oz base and inside the bomb shelter from which the female observers were taken.

The Israeli government and the international community can’t waste another moment – we must get back to the negotiation table today! #BringThemHomeNow

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Kinda fucked up how Hamas can just release footage of tied up, half naked IDF women, brag about how they're gonna rape them and STILL enjoy overwhelming support from retards.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Kinda fucked up how Hamas can just release footage of tied up, half naked IDF women, brag about how they're gonna rape them and STILL enjoy overwhelming support from retards.

Its the end result of Liberalism. The Victimized opressed group can do no evil in conflict against the opressor group. The revolution justifies the end, and is justice against those who benefit from the system against those who were victims of it. Its not stupid at all. It is Liberal philosophy working as intended. Why is the ICJ charging Israeli and Hamas leaders equally? All men are created equal. And all men must be judged equally. I refer you all to my very autistic deep thunk on the matter.

 

[FILTH Tourist]

Kinda fucked up how Hamas can just release footage of tied up, half naked IDF women, brag about how they're gonna rape them and STILL enjoy overwhelming support from retards.

Most of their supporters aren't watching this kind of stuff. They have their echochambers that filter out this kind of atrocity and if they are confronted by it they have influences that downplay it.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

enjoy overwhelming support from retards

Have you seen marzgurl thread? The whole majority of Palestinian college rioters are fat white women and ugly Asian girls who Hamas or black Americans wouldn’t rape. Half them probably end being rape by male feminists. Ironic.