Paper Mario Series

[Colon capital V]

Offtopic, but what is the big twist of Troonori, if you don't mind me asking? Seems like the game captivated a good fanbase, and even led some people depressed, on the verge of suicide (and even commited such act).

Spoiler: Story + ending spoilers for 'mori

You play as a kid named Sunny who had a big sister named Mari. Throughout the game, you play between the "dreamworld" (in Sunny's head where most of the RPG gameplay is) and the real world (where the actual story plays out.) You come to find out that Mari died due to unknown circumstances throughout the game, until it is revealed that Sunny accidentally killed her from a heated argument via pushing her down the stairs and breaking her neck on impact.
And in an insane convoluted set of circumstances, Sunny (and his friend Basil who was there to witness it at the time for some reason) came up with the ludicrous idea of staging a fake suicide of her by using a jumprope, toy chest, and the backyard tree to make it look like she ACK'd. Mind you, this kid was fucking TWELVE when he came up with this psycotic, plan of action. And the worst part is that it WORKED, at least their friends completely bought it wholesale. Nevermind police or paramedics questioning how the body looks mangled as fuck if she really hanged herself.
The fact no one took one look at this script and said "this is fucking retarded, no 12 year old would EVER do this" and the fact the fanbase are handwaving this shit as "they were just KIDS you fucking BIGOT CHUD, learn to be more understanding" should tell you everything on why this game isn't worth playing if you're only in it for the story.

 

[Dynamite Bean]

Spoiler: Story + ending spoilers for 'mori

You play as a kid named Sunny who had a big sister named Mari. Throughout the game, you play between the "dreamworld" (in Sunny's head where most of the RPG gameplay is) and the real world (where the actual story plays out.) You come to find out that Mari died due to unknown circumstances throughout the game, until it is revealed that Sunny accidentally killed her from a heated argument via pushing her down the stairs and breaking her neck on impact.
And in an insane convoluted set of circumstances, Sunny (and his friend Basil who was there to witness it at the time for some reason) came up with the ludicrous idea of staging a fake suicide of her by using a jumprope, toy chest, and the backyard tree to make it look like she ACK'd. Mind you, this kid was fucking TWELVE when he came up with this psycotic, plan of action. And the worst part is that it WORKED, at least their friends completely bought it wholesale. Nevermind police or paramedics questioning how the body looks mangled as fuck if she really hanged herself.
The fact no one took one look at this script and said "this is fucking retarded, no 12 year old would EVER do this" and the fact the fanbase are handwaving this shit as "they were just KIDS you fucking BIGOT CHUD, learn to be more understanding" should tell you everything on why this game isn't worth playing if you're only in it for the story.

This is what zoomers consider deep, thought provoking, amazing writing, my god

 

[X Prime]

Spoiler: Story + ending spoilers for 'mori

You play as a kid named Sunny who had a big sister named Mari. Throughout the game, you play between the "dreamworld" (in Sunny's head where most of the RPG gameplay is) and the real world (where the actual story plays out.) You come to find out that Mari died due to unknown circumstances throughout the game, until it is revealed that Sunny accidentally killed her from a heated argument via pushing her down the stairs and breaking her neck on impact.
And in an insane convoluted set of circumstances, Sunny (and his friend Basil who was there to witness it at the time for some reason) came up with the ludicrous idea of staging a fake suicide of her by using a jumprope, toy chest, and the backyard tree to make it look like she ACK'd. Mind you, this kid was fucking TWELVE when he came up with this psycotic, plan of action. And the worst part is that it WORKED, at least their friends completely bought it wholesale. Nevermind police or paramedics questioning how the body looks mangled as fuck if she really hanged herself.
The fact no one took one look at this script and said "this is fucking retarded, no 12 year old would EVER do this" and the fact the fanbase are handwaving this shit as "they were just KIDS you fucking BIGOT CHUD, learn to be more understanding" should tell you everything on why this game isn't worth playing if you're only in it for the story.

Spoiler: About the Twist

Sunny's friends bought it, but his parents knew. There's a spot where you can hear the dad say "you are not my son" near a dreamworld version of the hanging tree.

This is what zoomers consider deep, thought provoking, amazing writing, my god

The problem here is that the bar is legitimately that low.

A lot of it is also troon delusions. The game itself does not have a hint of any LGBTQ+ themes whatsoever. Every established relationship or hinted-at romantic interest is straight.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Spoiler: Story + ending spoilers for 'mori

You play as a kid named Sunny who had a big sister named Mari. Throughout the game, you play between the "dreamworld" (in Sunny's head where most of the RPG gameplay is) and the real world (where the actual story plays out.) You come to find out that Mari died due to unknown circumstances throughout the game, until it is revealed that Sunny accidentally killed her from a heated argument via pushing her down the stairs and breaking her neck on impact.
And in an insane convoluted set of circumstances, Sunny (and his friend Basil who was there to witness it at the time for some reason) came up with the ludicrous idea of staging a fake suicide of her by using a jumprope, toy chest, and the backyard tree to make it look like she ACK'd. Mind you, this kid was fucking TWELVE when he came up with this psycotic, plan of action. And the worst part is that it WORKED, at least their friends completely bought it wholesale. Nevermind police or paramedics questioning how the body looks mangled as fuck if she really hanged herself.
The fact no one took one look at this script and said "this is fucking retarded, no 12 year old would EVER do this" and the fact the fanbase are handwaving this shit as "they were just KIDS you fucking BIGOT CHUD, learn to be more understanding" should tell you everything on why this game isn't worth playing if you're only in it for the story.

Spoiler: Wow.

Wow, what a fucking idiotic "plan". It almost sounds like a gruesome case that happened in Brazil some decades ago, but I do not wish to go too much off topic lol. Like, very gruesome. Regardless, for them to take it like "wow she really did commit suicide" does tell everything. Is there no comeuppance to Basil nor Sunny? Tommy Vercetti should do a visit, tell Sunny to fuck off and that Vice City is his (lol).

 

[X Prime]

Spoiler: Wow.

Wow, what a fucking idiotic "plan". It almost sounds like a gruesome case that happened in Brazil some decades ago, but I do not wish to go too much off topic lol. Like, very gruesome. Regardless, for them to take it like "wow she really did commit suicide" does tell everything. Is there no comeuppance to Basil nor Sunny? Tommy Vercetti should do a visit, tell Sunny to fuck off and that Vice City is his (lol).

Spoiler: Consequences

Basil goes insane and stabs out one of Sunny's eyes in the good ending. That's about it.

It is also implied that Sunny's parents divorced over it. Mom wanted to protect him while Dad is implied to be angry.

 

[LiquidKid]

Nowadays, with Metroid being revitalized even higher than it was during the Prime era, I think the team would rather just build Metroid.

That’s a bit of a stretch.
Samus Returns and Dread were popular, as was the Prime remaster, but that’s all the Metroid we have had in a decade. Yeah Federation Force happened, but nobody really considered that Metroid.
Compare this to the prime era where in the span of 7 years we got Zero Mission, Prime, Prime 2, Fusion, Prime 3, Prime Hunters, and then Prime Pinball…for some reason.
Even if/when we do finally get prime 4, they’ll be 5 games in the span of what is hopefully just a decade instead of 7. Still better than the 3 we got in the classic era, but not as big of a revival as the Prime era.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

That’s a bit of a stretch.
Samus Returns and Dread were popular, as was the Prime remaster, but that’s all the Metroid we have had in a decade. Yeah Federation Force happened, but nobody really considered that Metroid.
Compare this to the prime era where in the span of 7 years we got Zero Mission, Prime, Prime 2, Fusion, Prime 3, Prime Hunters, and then Prime Pinball…for some reason.
Even if/when we do finally get prime 4, they’ll be 5 games in the span of what is hopefully just a decade instead of 7. Still better than the 3 we got in the classic era, but not as big of a revival as the Prime era.

Was more speaking in terms of sales. Dread is currently the highest selling game in the franchise, so that team has good incentive to continue with Metroid.

 

[Human Institute Director]

Spoiler: Story + ending spoilers for 'mori

You play as a kid named Sunny who had a big sister named Mari. Throughout the game, you play between the "dreamworld" (in Sunny's head where most of the RPG gameplay is) and the real world (where the actual story plays out.) You come to find out that Mari died due to unknown circumstances throughout the game, until it is revealed that Sunny accidentally killed her from a heated argument via pushing her down the stairs and breaking her neck on impact.
And in an insane convoluted set of circumstances, Sunny (and his friend Basil who was there to witness it at the time for some reason) came up with the ludicrous idea of staging a fake suicide of her by using a jumprope, toy chest, and the backyard tree to make it look like she ACK'd. Mind you, this kid was fucking TWELVE when he came up with this psycotic, plan of action. And the worst part is that it WORKED, at least their friends completely bought it wholesale. Nevermind police or paramedics questioning how the body looks mangled as fuck if she really hanged herself.
The fact no one took one look at this script and said "this is fucking retarded, no 12 year old would EVER do this" and the fact the fanbase are handwaving this shit as "they were just KIDS you fucking BIGOT CHUD, learn to be more understanding" should tell you everything on why this game isn't worth playing if you're only in it for the story.

I think you're misrepresenting the story a little

Spoiler: Omori twist and consequences

The twist is a bit unrealistic because while the parents found out and divorced over it, the cops would probably detect the head trauma and the causes of death. Even then this isn't all that stupid compared to some real life cases, in fact real life police has acted way more retarded in multiple situations, like interrogating a guy who was shot to the head until he died. Now is it an excuse for every convoluted piece of writing? Not really, stories have an unwritten engagement to be more logical than the real world at its worst.

But I'll say this isn't a significant flaw either, because the game doesn't really put a huge emphasis on the logistics of Mari's death. There's focus on Mari but rather than a mystery or something that'd warrant more rigorous logical writing, it's more from the perspective of Sunny: why is everything related to Mari so awkward and tense? Why is he behaving this way?

That's the curveball here. Troons latch onto Omori because it has Tumblr aesthetic and that "depression game" vibe but it's actually a game about guilt and escapism. Sunny sees himself as a disgusting monster (quite literally) who doesn't deserve forgiveness and regresses into a broken shell to bury this. Basil is obviously mentally ill given that he could think of this dogshit idea in the first place, and it's contextualized through his relationship with Sunny: basically he went to these extreme lengths because he idealized Sunny so much and this was the only way he thought of to "keep him clean"

Consequences are left somewhat unclear, the best ending has Sunny and Basil fight over a knife during a psychotic episode, get wounded in the eye and sent to the hospital, unconscious (coma?). Sunny accept his guilt during his coma episode, enters Basil's room and confesses to his friends. The confession is left offscreen and that's a good thing because it opens up a whole can of worm and seeing these characters deal with the truth would be a whole other story by itself. There'd definitely be conflict and tragedy, whether you think they were forgiven or not. But the point is that they confessed to the truth and by doing so, the black thing following them finally disappears.

Omori is obviously an anti-escapism/accept the truth and atone type of story, so that's why I find it ironic that troons latched onto it (especially when it has 0 gay/troon in it, just a bunch of healthy heterosexual relationships and Kel's traditional family does a lot of the heavylifting for things to get better). I don't think it can be classified along other trannycore works that definitely love to give characters passes for everything they do and embrace escapism.

On top of that, all endings but one have Basil killing himself and Sunny either killing himself at the hospital or living as a broken shell (probably only delaying the inevitable). So it's clear just how traumatic and extreme this whole situation is after Basil's shitty idea, a lot of things need to go well for everyone to start healing (if HERO didn't come back for vacation I'm pretty sure nothing good would happen at all, he's the one pushing things forward)

Tldr: Omori is actually great imo. Not flawless but the writing is definitely a lot more subtle and self aware than you'd expect it for an RPG maker game. It's mostly harmed by troons invading the fanbase like they usually do.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Omori and Undertale type games feel pretentious to me, and I hate them.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Also I have some questions pertaining to Wario and the WarioWare """universe""". Is Wario from Mario series the same from WarioWare? I'd say obviously yes, yet there's a motley crew of so many characters (Ashley, 8-Volt, etc) that never pop up on Mario games.

They were recently confirmed to be in the same universe. Wario Land's Cractus is in Move It! Wario Land is presumably in the Mario universe given that it was a branch off of Mario Land.

As for why characters don't appear in Mario titles, Nintendo is really inconsistent about side series and if they have characters appear.

Donkey Kong seems to be the one side series with the most character appearances, but it varies. Most times you only get DK and Diddy, maybe one other like Funky (Mario Kart Wii + 8 DLC) or Dixie Kong (Mario Hoops). Baseball is the only spin-off to extensively use the DK cast.

Luigi's Mansion appears in titles, but you never see characters from it outside of E Gadd getting a cameo in M&L and being mentioned in Sunshine. They don't even use the King Boo from the series.

Yoshi really only gets babies. Recently Poochi appears in Odyssey and Kamek (along with Island) in Mario Kart, but otherwise Yoshi's Island is usually not referenced.

Wario Land and Ware are never referenced. Neither is anything from Peach's game, making me doubt Show Time will be either.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Spoiler: Consequences

Basil goes insane and stabs out one of Sunny's eyes in the good ending. That's about it.

It is also implied that Sunny's parents divorced over it. Mom wanted to protect him while Dad is implied to be angry.

Spoiler: Thank you.

I see, thank you. Huh, a bit basic I guess.

They were recently confirmed to be in the same universe. Wario Land's Cractus is in Move It! Wario Land is presumably in the Mario universe given that it was a branch off of Mario Land.

As for why characters don't appear in Mario titles, Nintendo is really inconsistent about side series and if they have characters appear.

Donkey Kong seems to be the one side series with the most character appearances, but it varies. Most times you only get DK and Diddy, maybe one other like Funky (Mario Kart Wii + 8 DLC) or Dixie Kong (Mario Hoops). Baseball is the only spin-off to extensively use the DK cast.

Luigi's Mansion appears in titles, but you never see characters from it outside of E Gadd getting a cameo in M&L and being mentioned in Sunshine. They don't even use the King Boo from the series.

Yoshi really only gets babies. Recently Poochi appears in Odyssey and Kamek (along with Island) in Mario Kart, but otherwise Yoshi's Island is usually not referenced.

Wario Land and Ware are never referenced. Neither is anything from Peach's game, making me doubt Show Time will be either.

Huh, I guess that makes sense. I didn't think of "Each Nintendo character getting its own spinoff, thus they don't need to appear in the overall Mario Bros. franchise altogether unless it's a reference". I guess Donkey Kong seems to break this rule in general (with Diddy, Cranky and maybe Dixie).

 

[LiquidKid]

Omori and Undertale type games feel pretentious to me, and I hate them.

They are and I gave both a fair shot as a life long RPG fan and hated them both. Didn’t like the writing style or music. They have good elements, but every good idea is ruined by writing that took itself way too seriously

They were recently confirmed to be in the same universe. Wario Land's Cractus is in Move It! Wario Land is presumably in the Mario universe given that it was a branch off of Mario Land.

As for why characters don't appear in Mario titles, Nintendo is really inconsistent about side series and if they have characters appear.

Donkey Kong seems to be the one side series with the most character appearances, but it varies. Most times you only get DK and Diddy, maybe one other like Funky (Mario Kart Wii + 8 DLC) or Dixie Kong (Mario Hoops). Baseball is the only spin-off to extensively use the DK cast.

Luigi's Mansion appears in titles, but you never see characters from it outside of E Gadd getting a cameo in M&L and being mentioned in Sunshine. They don't even use the King Boo from the series.

Yoshi really only gets babies. Recently Poochi appears in Odyssey and Kamek (along with Island) in Mario Kart, but otherwise Yoshi's Island is usually not referenced.

Wario Land and Ware are never referenced. Neither is anything from Peach's game, making me doubt Show Time will be either.

Nintendo is very particular with what the official Mario canon is. We all remember how Movie Bob has a tardfit because Yoshi’s island established that Mario and Luigi were born in the mushroom kingdom and not Brooklyn, but in recent years we’ve gotten confirmation from Nintendo that they’re not even canonical plumbers anymore.

Mario 3 established how large Mario’s world is and that the mushroom kingdom is just a singular continent, but then Miyamoto did that interview where he claimed Mario 3 was indeed just a play, but at the same time we know for a fact Yoshi’s island in world and the Yoshi games isn’t in the mushroom kingdom,

The Mario RPGs have fairly consistent canon in their respective series’s, and they’ve crossed over, which could imply many weird parallels. But the paper Mario games are also potentially plays, at least the first 3 which begin with a curtain and a narrator setting the stage for the show.

Wario meanwhile is in more traditional Mario worlds in the land games, but in a modern city during the wario ware games, but because Wario is a treasure hunter, we can toss that up to wario globe trotting.

Mario mostly stays in the mushroom kingdom and only travels to rescue peach in most instances.

Honestly, why I think Nintendo autistically decided in the 2010’s that every Zelda game needs to be part of a set timeline and this killed the ability for each game to stand on its own, I think Mario would actually benefit from an official timeline and a definitive source for what is canon and what isn’t.

Like, it’s obvious Dr. Mario and Mario Party aren’t canon. But the RPGs could easily fit in the canon as they reference the mainline games several times, and there’s nothing in the sports games to imply they can’t be canon either. We’ve all played the odd sports with friends and acquaintances here or there.

Pauline keeps being taken in and out of official canon, but in DKC is specifically stated that Cranky is the original donkey Kong Mario fought and that DK is his grandson, with Jr being smashed to death by an e-reader written out of existence

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

They are and I gave both a fair shot as a life long RPG fan and hated them both. Didn’t like the writing style or music. They have good elements, but every good idea is ruined by writing that took itself way too seriously

Yeah, Undertale in particular at least has a decent soundtrack, overrated but it's fine.

 

[Colon capital V]

Snip

Spoiler: Last response so as not to derail this thread further

I'll admit I think I made a mistake when I wrote that "police/paramedics questioning the bruises" part, as I can believe that they would know and they would be willing to let them go since it was an accident and they're still kids (likewise, I can believe the parents would also keep it under wraps, but the father is understandably pissed so he dipped). I can also believe Sunny would accidentally kill his sister since kids have done some insane shit by accident (pushing others off ledges, playing with guns, etc). But I'm not willing to accept/suspend my disbelief for the "hanging my sister" part because no 12 year old (unless they're apart of some Foodist/freak group on the internet, which given this game takes place in the late 90s/00s, I doubt it) would come up with such an awful idea no matter how extreme and irrational they may be in the moment. I know not all fictional stories have to be 1 to 1 with logic, but this is one of those cases where I cannot accept this happening seeing as it's based on our real world with pixel humans that act like just us.
I've written about it before in 'mori's own thread here, but if it was just a story about how 1 boy's asian sister with perfectionist parents actually killed herself after a music recital gone wrong and how he has to come to terms that it wasn't his fault, stop blaming himself, stop ruminating on the past and move on, it would've felt like a way more realistic, grounded story that I would've liked to stick til the end just to see how Sunny concludes his grief (either by suicide or by acceptance). Things would have to be overhauled and retooled to make it work of course, but that’s the price to pay to make an engaging story work from start to finish.

And FWIW the overall story and character interactions for most of the game were OK, it's just that final part that completely shatters almost everything that built up to it.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

But the paper Mario games are also potentially plays, at least the first 3 which begin with a curtain and a narrator setting the stage for the show.

The Paper games take place in a book as confirmed by Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. Though you can also find the book in Sunshine's Noki Bay apparently, along with Luigi's Mansion where the ghost Neville is reading Mario's Story.

Pauline keeps being taken in and out of official canon, but in DKC is specifically stated that Cranky is the original donkey Kong Mario fought and that DK is his grandson, with Jr being smashed to death by an e-reader written out of existence

This is a messy part of the cannon. Cranky was originally supposed to be DK's father, making DK a grown up DK Jr.. Nintendo hated what Rare was doing with DK, so they vetoed it, but Rare went back and made him DK's dad in 64. Nintendo then rewrote it once Rare was bought out, only to rewrite it again for the Mario Movie to go back him being the father.

Wario meanwhile is in more traditional Mario worlds in the land games, but in a modern city during the wario ware games, but because Wario is a treasure hunter, we can toss that up to wario globe trotting.

Pretty sure the WarioWare games take place after Land with Wario retiring from being a treasure hunter.

Nintendo is very particular with what the official Mario canon is. We all remember how Movie Bob has a tardfit because Yoshi’s island established that Mario and Luigi were born in the mushroom kingdom and not Brooklyn, but in recent years we’ve gotten confirmation from Nintendo that they’re not even canonical plumbers anymore.

Yeah, this part is messy. My best guess is that Mario's parents moved to New Donk City at some point, so he grew up in the Brooklyn-like area. Mario Movie 2 will likely explain this.

 

[Sicko Hunter]

Guys it's not censorship they are just updating it for a modern audience!

 

[Celebrate Nite]

Guys it's not censorship they are just updating it for a modern audience!
View attachment 6051720

>2004's sense of humor is simply outdated
PISS OFF WITH THAT BULLSHIT!!!

 

[Sicko Hunter]

Holy shit lmao the troon saying that is on schizophrenia medication and has autism LOL

 

[LiquidKid]

Yeah, this part is messy. My best guess is that Mario's parents moved to New Donk City at some point, so he grew up in the Brooklyn-like area. Mario Movie 2 will likely explain this.

I still don’t understand the ending of the movie.
They moved to the mushroom kingdom and are in the house we’ve seen many times… but they go back to the pipe to Brooklyn? So they live in the mushroom kingdom but continue to be plumbers in New York?

Thanks for clearing up the book part, I did play paper jam, but only once and I remember very little of it.

Guys it's not censorship they are just updating it for a modern audience!
View attachment 6051720

Typical Reddit Smooth brain take. At very best, he could argue Goombella shouldn’t call Miss Mouz a floozy anymore because kids might not know what the world means in this decade, but that’s a massive stretch. Especially since final fantasy 6’s remaster, which has an all knew translation, kept the word floozy intact.

 

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

Then yeah, good luck with that. I’m gonna wait until N64Recomp gets updated some more then try to make a PC port of TTYD64. It’s a hack I’ve been meaning to play for a while anyway, and that’ll be a great way to stress test recomp.

Honestly, I had already been rather anxiously hoping that someone gives Paper Mario TTYD64 the recomp treatment, but you having concrete, even if distant, plans makes me very Optimistic.
A recompilation of TTYD64 with MasterKillua's textures and music remixes would be fabulous.