Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I don’t know where you got this idea the Bene Gesserit could read minds. They have a lot of fantastic abilities, but that is not one of them (and would completely undermine their role in the book.)

Read more closely. "Like the Bene Gesserit." The Jedi in this show use their powers to assert mental dominance over other people with the full blessing of the government to further their own agenda.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Nigga, learning the Force isn’t like buying a $2 pistol. Even the Sith explicitly devote their lives to the religion, which is way more effort than any of those groups would put into it. Luke had a crash course training from what was implied in ANH to be a master of great enough power to have greatly extended his lifespan (before the prequels have him age fifty years over the course of twenty years), and proper training by an even more aged master (Yoda being 900 because he’s a master of the Force is way better than “his species just lives that long”), and he still only got as far as “kind of move stuff, I dunno.”

Yes. And for every 100 people, you have at least 1 who's got the time and money to willingly devote their life to a religion in order to gain power. Given that the SW galaxy has 100 quadrillion people, that translates out to 1 quadrillion Jedi/Sith. Or at the very least, several hundred trillions of them. That is, if the Force is available to everyone.

So again, giving the Force to everyone means that Order 66 matters for shit. It also means Endor matters for shit. Especially with the Sith, where anger and hatred are quick paths to power. Even if it's a religion, well, there's no shortage of religious people IRL who do dedicate themselves to that craft, even if it takes most of their life. Wiping out the Jedi won't matter since Kenobi can just make some video recordings about the entirety of the Jedi religion while in exile, then pass that on to the Rebels to mass-produce by just hitting ''copy''. Same thing for the Sith; the Emperor could have recordings of his Sith teachings in his palace, and the moment he dies, he could have some contingency where they get released among the ranks of the Empire so that anyone with the time and dedication can become the next Dark Lord of the Sith.

Hell, if I were the Emperor, and the Force is available to everyone, I'd create Sith legions where the best of the best Stormtroopers are taught the ways of the Sith. The moment I croak along with Vader, there's already someone on Coruscant ready to take the title of Emperor and Dark Lord. That victory on Endor won't matter at all.

Also, Yoda's implied to be past his prime. Hence why he makes that 900-year-old jab at Luke.

 

[el bandito loco]

speaking of Darth Vader how the fuck are they stupid enough to be, 5 movies in, 100 episodes or more of tv deep, and we don't have a Vader tv show? it wouldn't be good of course, the people in charge are braindead retards, but people have been wanting more darth vader since 1977 what the fuck is wrong with them?

 

[McMitch]

Yes. And for every 100 people, you have at least 1 who's got the time and money to willingly devote their life to a religion in order to gain power. Given that the SW galaxy has 100 quadrillion people, that translates out to 1 quadrillion Jedi/Sith.

That is way too generous an estimate. It would be several orders of magnitude smaller, with the proportion of people willing and able growing smaller as the general population grows larger.

So again, giving the Force to everyone means that Order 66 matters for shit.

Order 66 matters for shit because it was a bad plot point from a godawful movie that was made after and exacerbated everything wrong with Star Wars beyond episodes 4 and 5.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That is way too generous an estimate. It would be several orders of magnitude smaller, with the proportion of people willing and able growing smaller as the general population grows larger.

Not really. Not if the religion actually comes with psychic superpowers. More people would be willing to believe, especially since the Republic's enforcers or the Imperial executor outright prove that this religion works.

Order 66 matters for shit because it was a bad plot point from a godawful movie that was made after and exacerbated everything wrong with Star Wars beyond episodes 4 and 5.

False. Episode 4 outright stated that the Jedi were wiped out by the Empire. So the Jedi purge predated the Prequels. One of the SWEU authors was originally going to make a book on it before they left it to Lucas. But if everyone could use the Force, then the Jedi Order could be restored in a fortnight. Luke would just rummage through Old Ben's belongings back on Tatooine and find his recordings in his hut, or have Yoda create new recordings of Jedi teachings on Dagobah with R2 as the cameraman, and they could train countless Rebels into becoming Jedi Knights quickly if Luke uploaded those teachings to a computer and clicked ''copy and paste'' for those recordings.

This is why making the Force available to everyone doesn't work. Not only does it contradict Kenobi's status as a Space Istari, which is his original inspiration, but the fact that both the Republic and the Empire have Force-using enforcers means that there's empirical evidence for the religion, which would then lead to billions, if not trillions of followers dedicating their lives to it. Especially in the Outer Rim where many people are poor as fuck and have nothing to lose. Just like how in the real world, people living in the desert or the boonies who have no wealth or name to themselves, they attach themselves to religion because they have nothing else.

The moment Kenobi uses that mind trick, or the moment Vader uses Force choke on Admiral Motti, all doubts are thrown out the window, and if the Force can be used by all, you can bet your ass that there'd be countless legions of soldiers on both sides studying the teachings and recordings of old masters to make themselves more powerful. We already have billions of religious people in the real world who don't have psychic-powered clergy. The moment they realize faith gives them real psychic powers is the moment all doubt gets thrown out the window and followers for the Jedi/Sith way start swelling to the billions or trillions.

 

[Screamer_2]

It is meh..except for alot of little dumbshit things they do.

Why would the Trade Federation that..100 years later specialize in robots not just have robots to repair things on the hull? Like even without a law to make them do it THEIR ENTIRE ARMY IS ROBOTS why would they have humans for this one fucking task?

Because those making the show don't pay attention to details.

They want her to be a bit like Ellen Ripley, a space mechanic. They even had music in the space repair scene reminiscent of Alien.

I assume using Trade Federation is simply that they're a thing. Grapped something recognisable. Thinking it'll appease the prequel fans.

or like

Why did Main character Lady..tell the 12 year old how Flexible she is? Why did..the Jedi Council not motherfucking instantly recall the Wookie from the ass end of the galaxy the moment it became clear that he was the target of an assassin that killed 2 Jedi Masters? Hell why the fuck did Hobo Meditation man not have guards after the first time they caught an intruder entering the building?

The shows built around ideas for scenes and sequences. Not telling a story. No attention to details or approaching it as if it's a real world. It's Star Wars, it doesn't need to make sense is the attitude.

 

[Screamer_2]

This is why making the Force available to everyone doesn't work. Not only does it contradic.

Doesn't it also contradict The Mandolorian. I don't really remember, but wasn't Gus Fring trying to make force sensitive clone troopers or something? Cloning himself into a force user or something?

If anyone can use it, why not just train?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Doesn't it also contradict The Mandolorian. I don't really remember, but wasn't Gus Fring trying to make force sensitive clone troopers or something? Cloning himself into a force user or something?

If anyone can use it, why not just train?

Space Gus was trying to put Baby Yoda's genetics into his clones because Baby Yoda is Force-sensitive. He failed in that regard.

 

[el bandito loco]

if anyone can use the force, it just fundamentally changes the entire galaxy. every swinging dick in space would be date raping people with jedi mind tricks and there would be literally 0 reason for anyone at all to not train in it. why would you NOT want to have superpowers and make your life easier? if anyone can do it, it's fucking retarded

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Because those making the show don't pay attention to details.

The shows built around ideas for scenes and sequences. Not telling a story. No attention to details or approaching it as if it's a real world. It's Star Wars, it doesn't need to make sense is the attitude.

Yeah, can't tell if it's a woman author thing or an inexperience issue. Definitely a competence issue though. Like, the opening scene in episode 1 would have made more sense if Evil Black lady threw a thermal detonator in the bar and when Carrie Anne-Moss gets up to stop it, she stabs her in the back or something. Can't mind read murderous intent when all the patrons are screaming in pain, after all. Instead, it's a long rigamaroll with a lot of dicking around.

Doesn't it also contradict The Mandolorian. I don't really remember, but wasn't Gus Fring trying to make force sensitive clone troopers or something? Cloning himself into a force user or something?

Sure, but it's a bit like thinking that the Warrior Gene can be replicated in human cloning experiments to create super soldiers. Yeah, sure midiclorians are genetic in nature, but attempting genetic experiments with 100% success is beyond their abilities.

 

[Screamer_2]

Yeah, can't tell if it's a woman author thing or an inexperience issue. Definitely a competence issue though. Like, the opening scene in episode 1 would have made more sense if Evil Black lady threw a thermal detonator in the bar and when Carrie Anne-Moss gets up to stop it, she stabs her in the back or something. Can't mind read murderous intent when all the patrons are screaming in pain, after all. Instead, it's a long rigamaroll with a lot of dicking around.

Wasn't there something about how she's meant to be confronting and killing the Jedi with out weapons. Yet she is using throwing knives, which are weapons.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

That is way too generous an estimate.

Not really, it is probably an underestimation.

The Population of the Star Wars Galaxy is very likely so large that a human mind couldn't wrap their mind around it, honestly even if Force Sensitivity is Genetic(as is implied in the OT) the Jedi population is still impossibly small. They wouldn't have their Main temple on The Republic Capital..because they would need a world of their own just to house everyone.

 

[McMitch]

Especially in the Outer Rim where many people are poor as fuck and have nothing to lose. Just like how in the real world, people living in the desert or the boonies who have no wealth or name to themselves, they attach themselves to religion because they have nothing else.

People turn to religion en masse but the Force isn’t solely a religion, there’s a heavy martial arts aspect to it of which you will find almost zero widespread adaptation(if we’re bringing up inspirations, then Kenobi pulls more from the Wuxia inspiration than Tolkien), which almost universally requires a local populace that produces surplus supplies to support it.

Episode 4 outright stated that the Jedi were wiped out by the Empire.

Right, but it’s portrayal in the prequels was retarded and over explains what was a background element in a good movie (which is a major problem with media at large these days, starting with Star Wars).

The moment Kenobi uses that mind trick, or the moment Vader uses Force choke on Admiral Motti, all doubts are thrown out the window, and if the Force can be used by all, you can bet your ass that there'd be countless legions of soldiers on both sides studying the teachings and recordings of old masters to make themselves more powerful. We already have billions of religious people in the real world who don't have psychic-powered clergy. The moment they realize faith gives them real psychic powers is the moment all doubt gets thrown out the window and followers for the Jedi/Sith way start swelling to the billions or trillions.

You’re conflating belief that something exists with the work it actually takes to employ it. Anyone having the capability to use the Force does not mean it is easy to do so, and the very clear martial arts inspiration behind the concept (it’s literally Chi) makes it obvious that it takes years of practice and training to achieve even as much as Luke demonstrates, much less literally any other Force user in the only good Star Wars media.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Wasn't there something about how she's meant to be confronting and killing the Jedi with out weapons. Yet she is using throwing knives, which are weapons.

Yeah, very lolworthy. If I were to steelMAN Smilo Ren, he says that the Jedi live in a fantasy world where they believe they can't be killed. So figuring out how to kill Jedi should be more like an Atton Rand kind of thing where muggles figure out Hitman scenarios to get Jedi to kill themselves instead of walking up and threatening them.

Even then, this concept was better done twenty years ago in every way.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

People turn to religion en masse but the Force isn’t solely a religion, there’s a heavy martial arts aspect to it of which you will find almost zero widespread adaptation(if we’re bringing up inspirations, then Kenobi pulls more from the Wuxia inspiration than Tolkien), which almost universally requires a local populace that produces surplus supplies to support it.

Which the Rebels and the Empire can easily supply. Especially if it gives them more warriors on Vader and Kenobi's level. Also, Kenobi's fighting style in the OT has less wuxia inspirations, especially given how he fights closer to a European knight rather than a Chinese wuxia warrior.

Right, but it’s portrayal in the prequels was retarded and over explains what was a background element in a good movie (which is a major problem with media at large these days, starting with Star Wars).

Not really. It explains why the Rebels couldn't just restore the Jedi Order with some recordings of Jedi teachings and some supplies and recruits. The Jedi have their own recruiting methods that they obviously keep to themselves, since the government doesn't recruit people based on midichlorian count, and the Jedi got whacked. So the knowledge of how to determine if X is Force-sensitive got lost with them.

You’re conflating belief that something exists with the work it actually takes to employ it. Anyone having the capability to use the Force does not mean it is easy to do so, and the very clear martial arts inspiration behind the concept (it’s literally Chi) makes it obvious that it takes years of practice and training to achieve even as much as Luke demonstrates, much less literally any other Force user in the only good Star Wars media.

False. There's more than enough people who will spend THEIR ENTIRE LIVES to learn something. Again, even if it's just 1 in 100 people, that would translate to hundreds of trillions, maybe even a quadrillion. Especially given that there's empirical evidence that this power exists. There's people IRL who live as monks, nuns, mystics, Sufis, because they believe in a higher power. Now imagine a government agent literally using that higher power and proving to the plebs that it exists. Also, Luke took less than 5 years to learn and become a full Jedi Knight. At most, it was 4. Imagine soldiers who train for 10-20 years, who are more devoted to this stuff than Luke is, because unlike him, they're zealots for the cause.

Again, this is why making everyone Force-sensitive is bullshit. You'll have more than enough religious people on both sides to the point where the Jedi purge that Kenobi mentions in ANH, and the eradication of the Sith in ROTJ, would become effectively null and void, because there will always be more than enough people who will take up that cross and continue the faith, devoting years of their life to hone that craft. You'd have Jedi and Sith all over the place who'd be far stronger than Luke in the Force, because they've trained longer with it, and killing the Emperor would matter for shit because he's got millions of people to replace him and Vader in case some Rebel agent got lucky and killed them both. Especially since unlike the Light, the Dark Side is faster to get into, as Yoda warns.

And since the Rule of Two was introduced in the Prequels, if they're written out of the story, you could have a full-blown Sith Order on Coruscant with millions of adherents, ruled by a Dark Council like in SWTOR, and they replace the dead Emperor within a day and keep the Empire going, making the victory on Endor completely worthless. You could even have them replace Vader and have a new guy behind the mask who'd deny everything Luke would say about Vader turning to the Light, especially since the Empire wouldn't care who's behind the mask so long as he does his job well.

 

[el bandito loco]

Right, but it’s portrayal in the prequels was retarded and over explains what was a background element in a good movie (which is a major problem with media at large these days, starting with Star Wars).

what the fuck else could they have done. lol you can argue about the execution in the movie itself but the idea of order 66 itself is basically the only way they could have done it. it had to be a military operation, how else would an entire line of superpowered monks die? why would there only be a couple left? it had to be some type of full assassination campaign.

and over explaining is a problem with the prequels in general but I think explaining where the fuck all the jedi went is essentially the only thing the prequels HAD to do that was literally the only thing anyone wanted to know about that the OT didn't have in it. all we knew was that the empire and darth vader got rid of them, how is what people wanted to know and that was what order 66 was. it not being a coordinated military operation would have been totally stupid.

 

[McMitch]

Which the Rebels and the Empire can easily supply. Especially if it gives them more warriors on Vader and Kenobi's level. Also, Kenobi's fighting style in the OT has less wuxia inspirations, especially given how he fights closer to a European knight rather than a Chinese wuxia warrior.

Even when not completely disregarding the prequels, by the time the rebellion had gathered enough steam to be a threat to the empire there were only two Jedi left who only manage to train one more before biting it. Kenobi’s swordsmanship is closer to an elderly man vaguely swinging a prop around because Guinness wanted a paycheck. The inspiration of Star Wars and the Force and it’s major story structure are still heavily Wuxia.

even if it's just 1 in 100

You keep saying that like you think that that is a small proportion of the population. 1 in 100 is a massive selection of any population more than a mid-sized hamlet. The real statistic would be several orders of magnitude smaller, especially as your population increases.

Also, Luke took less than 5 years to learn and become a full Jedi Knight.

Fucker was taught by two of the best in the galaxy, and still was only a Jedi Knight by merit of no one else being around to tell him he wasn’t. Part of his entire interaction with Yoda revolves around his training being interrupted. And he STILL didn’t have any Force powers beyond moving things.

Again, this is why making everyone Force-sensitive is bullshit.

Making “Force Sensitive” a discrete state is fucking retarded. Your autistic ass conflates people’s capability to do so with their willingness, which is demonstrably wrong in real life, let alone a story.

In the end, you type a lot of words that amount to sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating “I can’t hear you.”

 

[el bandito loco]

this is some jj abrams YEAH I LOVE STAR WARS (just a movie from 1977 there is nothing else) shit

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Even when not completely disregarding the prequels, by the time the rebellion had gathered enough steam to be a threat to the empire there were only two Jedi left who only manage to train one more before biting it.

But the Empire has the exact opposite situation. They have control over the entire galaxy. Limitless resources. And two powerful Force-users who can easily take some time off to record some videos on how to master your anger, control your fear, and become a wielder of the Dark Side. And dictators as they are, they sure as hell would set aside a good number of people for it. Maybe take certain people from the schools, the army, the populace, and force them to master the ways of the Sith or die. If everyone has the potential to use the Force with training and time, the Empire would be taking full advantage of it and create legions of Sith.

Kenobi’s swordsmanship is closer to an elderly man vaguely swinging a prop around because Guinness wanted a paycheck. The inspiration of Star Wars and the Force and it’s major story structure are still heavily Wuxia.

Not really. Again, Kenobi was closer to Gandalf, a wizard doing tricks and guiding a man towards faith in a higher power. That's how they got Alec Guinness to sign on to begin with. The wuxia shit didn't really take off until the Prequels came, then the wuxia influence got in heavy with the Jedi and Sith fighting styles that were more Asian than European.

You keep saying that like you think that that is a small proportion of the population. 1 in 100 is a massive selection of any population more than a mid-sized hamlet. The real statistic would be several orders of magnitude smaller, especially as your population increases.

Again, you underestimate how large a galactic civilization is. Especially one that lasted a thousand generations. The statistics would bring in trillions of Force-sensitives who chose to master their power, even if they're just 1 out of 100. Or even 1 out of 1000. Or 1 out of 10,000. You'd still wind up with trillions of Sith.

Fucker was taught by two of the best in the galaxy, and still was only a Jedi Knight by merit of no one else being around to tell him he wasn’t.

Oh, you forgot the part where Kenobi said that he was their only hope, and that Yoda only had another person as their hope. Which again, shows that even in the OT, only certain people can become Jedi. Otherwise, Kenobi's ghost can haunt Han, Chewie, and Lando and spend years training THEM to be Jedi, too.

Part of his entire interaction with Yoda revolves around his training being interrupted. And he STILL didn’t have any Force powers beyond moving things.

And all Yoda would need to do is have Artoo record some lessons to pass down to the rest of the Alliance. Especially since they did JACK FUCKING SHIT in the decades after the Empire rose. Hell, if they spent all that time training rebels to be Jedi, they'd have at least 10,000 Jedi or more.

Also, the Emperor and Vader would have more than enough time to pass down Sith teachings to TRILLIONS of recruits, making the eradication of the Sith in ROTJ pointless as they'd be replaced in a jiffy.

That obviously isn't the case, since only certain people can train wield the Force to begin with, an idea that ANH and ESB already brought by the fact that Kenobi only bothered to train Luke, even though he's just as green with the Force as Han and everyone else were.

Making “Force Sensitive” a discrete state is fucking retarded. Your autistic ass conflates people’s capability to do so with their willingness, which is demonstrably wrong in real life, let alone a story.

In the end, you type a lot of words that amount to sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating “I can’t hear you.”

You're the one being deaf to the actual story. Even as far back as ESB, the Jedi treated Luke as the only possible hope. And all because he's the son of a Jedi. Nothing about anyone being able to learn the Jedi way, it's just something Luke inherited because his old man was a Jedi. Then Luke goes over to Leia and says she can have those powers too, because they're siblings.

And even in ANH, Ben only bothers to train Luke and ONLY Luke-because he's Anakin's son. He doesn't tell Luke to get some devoted Rebel soldiers to practice Force training with him and Yoda to Dagobah, just Luke. And the only other person they could train is Leia. Because she popped out of the same womb as Luke and had the same daddy.

 

[el bandito loco]

That obviously isn't the case, since only certain people can train wield the Force to begin with, an idea that ANH and ESB already brought by the fact that Kenobi only bothered to train Luke, even though he's just as green with the Force as Han and everyone else were.

I didn't even think of this but really if everyone could just use the force Han is the logical choice. like obviously because of his parentage Obi Wan was going to train Luke and had been watching him for 20 years or whatever but if literally anyone could use the force he'd spend 15 minutes with Han Solo and be like yup this guy is the second coming of Anakin, great pilot, cocky jackass, with jedi training this guy would be unstoppable.