Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Account]

Null should file more transfers. I want this to go to every district court in the US.
Fuck ping-pong, we need to play judicial Risk.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

the fact that a lot of this recent delay is tied up in the ping-ponging venue, started by the defendant's request to transfer, probably would give plenty of reason for a court to wave it away (even if the subsequent back and forth is nonsense).

 

[sallowhal]

null should trick greer into signing a marriage contract so that once they're married and too busy with marital bliss and running a household as a team, russ will have no choice but to drop the case. then divorce his ass

 

[Useful_Mistake]

No, they aren't criminal penalties, they are a measure of damages created by statute for use in civil cases. The state is not bringing charges, this is a civil dispute between two private parties (discarding for the sake of argument the difference between Joshua Connor Moon and KiwiFarms, a website).

Whether a statutes penalties are criminal or not is not always as easy a question as it appears. Consider these words by Utah court, "The Supreme Court's analysis of whether a statutory remedy is viewed as "punitive" has used case law from both Sixth Amendment and ex post facto jurisprudence interchangeably without finding any significant difference. For example, in Smith v. Doe, the Supreme Court explained that the seven factors used to determine whether a statute is civil or criminal in intent for purposes of an ex post facto determination, "migrated into our ex post facto case law from double jeopardy jurisprudence" and "have their earlier origins in cases under the Sixth and Eighth Amendments, as well as the Bill of Attainder and the Ex Post Facto Clauses." The Supreme Court's view of these factors as "`neither exhaustive nor dispositive'" in determining whether the effects of a particular piece of legislation are "civil" or "criminal" stems, in meaningful part, from the Court's recognition that these factors are, in fact, "designed to apply in various constitutional contexts." U.S. v. Visinaiz, 344 F. Supp. 2d 1310 (D. Utah 2004) (resolving the question on whether federal law that forced judges to seized assets after certain criminal convictions (in the same proceeding) was criminal or civil. Despite the entire context being criminal, they ruled it was civil.)

I am doubtful on whether this situation could be used in reverse. It is a well held fact that "By its plain language, the Sixth Amendment applies only to criminal, not civil, cases." Lietzke v. Cnty. of Montgomery, Case No. 2:12-cv-00268-DN-EJF (D. Utah Feb. 19, 2013). That said first we have to determine whether Copyright act is a civil or a criminal one.

1. Copyright act envisions in personam proceedings. That's a point in favor of it being Criminal United States v. Ursery, 518 U.S. 267, 116 S. Ct. 2135 (1996)
2. Copyright act envisions both civil and criminal proceedings. This factor, is therefore, neutral. Smith v. Doe, 538 U.S. 84, 123 S. Ct. 1140 (2003)
3. It is not an affirmative disability or restraint. Hudson v. United States, 522 U.S. 93, 118 S. Ct. 488 (1997). This is a factor in favor of it being civil. Incarceration is, and so that is neutral.
4. Fines do not have a history of being understood as a "punishment" in the way the Supreme Court envisions the word. Hudson v. United States, 522 U.S. 93, 118 S. Ct. 488 (1997). Incarceration has, however, so this is neutral.
5. Scienter factor seems to lean towards civil
6. Retribution and deference factor seems neutral or maybe slight lean to criminal.

So, applying these factors (parts of which are from Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 372 U.S. 144, 83 S. Ct. 554 (1963)) , Copyright act seems more Civil than Criminal. I think @mindlessobserver 's theory is interesting to ponder, but not super likely to be seriously considered by any judge.

Edit: actually nvm, after fixing one of my mistakes, it could just barely pass as criminal. I still maintain my overall point

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

See, it’s been misread. If the defendant is Null, he only has a right to a seedy trial.

 

[Botchy Galoop]

If the defendant is Null, he only has a right to a seedy sneedy trial.

FTFY

 

[AngeloTheWizard]

We're all hung up on Speedy, no one's considered the trial part. If this never goes to trial, do you even have a 6th Amendment?

Oh. That explains how they kept people in jail for January 6th...

 

[Your Starter for 10]

Those aren't people, they are terrorists, just like Null. And terrorists don't have rights.

That's in the Constitution somewhere.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

We're all hung up on Speedy, no one's considered the trial part. If this never goes to trial, do you even have a 6th Amendment?

Oh. That explains how they kept people in jail for January 6th...

yes, at least in criminal court. It's a fuzzy target, though, and depends on the defendant trying to preserve speed along the way- which can be difficult if you want to actually mount a good defense (in criminal or civil cases)

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

For all the bitching about courts, they actually do care about actual harm - which is why excessive bail and being held before trial annoys them so.

Besides the cost of the lawyer, and the annoyance, there’s not terribly much actual harm caused by this retarded case.

 

[daniel day]

For all the bitching about courts, they actually do care about actual harm - which is why excessive bail and being held before trial annoys them so.

Besides the cost of the lawyer, and the annoyance, there’s not terribly much actual harm caused by this retarded case.

To add: consider also that the judge deals with a ton of cases, and theyre usually as retarded as this. Im positive that greer is just another retard the judge rolls his eyes at and hopes will go away. If this was really something they cared about then they wouldnt be violating procedure and overturning established case law. The judges are probably closer to "I really dont give a fuck, please go away" territory than "that dang dirty keewee jersh needs to pay!"

 

[jerkstore]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Settling is really bad precedent. Better to ride and die than settle.

 

[Napoleon III]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

I asked this question too around the time the appeal to the 10th happened. Don't feel too bad it's a legitimate question.

Greer won't accept it. Why would he? It costs him basically nothing to keep this lawsuit going. And the only thing he actually cares about is his thread.

He can just fuck around being a nuisance without much harm to himself for years.

Pro-se litigation is a fucking travesty.

 

[The Un-Clit]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

FUCK NO does this frozen faced nigger get to win and every penny Null was given to fight that is given to Russhole be used to traumatize some poor hookers.

 

[Debbie Macomber]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

No, because it's only a matter of time before this case gets thrown out and Null awarded legal fees, whereas settling would be paying MORE money directly to Russ and would make it impossible for Null to ever make Russ pay for his bullshit!

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

No, because it's only a matter of time before this case gets thrown out and Null awarded legal fees, whereas settling would be paying MORE money directly to Russ and would make it impossible for Null to ever make Russ pay for his bullshit!

Can you imagine Null putting a lien on Russ’s accounts at every whorehouse in Nevada?

 

[DumbDude43]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

russ wont settle unless null agrees to delete and ban all discussion about him from the site

 

[Third World Aristocrat]

would it not at this point make some measure of sense to offer russtard $10k out of the legal fund to settle out of court? that’s more money than russell has seen at one time (or will ever see at one time) in his life, and more than his book or any of his songs would have ever made. considering not one lawsuit he’s ever been involved in has gotten him the desired result, he might take the money to shut up and go fuck off to whatever brothel he’s currently frequenting, or to produce 25 more shitty songs.

Just to remind of the last settlement offer from Russ that I remember:

His offer:
1. Joshua Moon pays my appellate lawyer fees. Andrew can give you an exact cost of what they are.
2. Joshua Moon removes me from kiwi farms and any other associated site he runs.
3. Moon installs a code to ensure I stay off the site.
If meditation [sic] can't be achieved:
1. I will win in the district court.
2. I will ask for statutory willful damages of $150,000 PER COPYRIGHT.

(FROM Document 76, Exhibit C):

I can't imagine Russ accepting just 10k for a settlement.

EDIT: Tidying up the post a bit, just the screencaps were awful to the eyes. Corrected exhibit A → C.

 

[Napoleon III]

Settling is really bad precedent. Better to ride and die than settle.

FUCK NO does this frozen faced nigger get to win and every penny Null was given to fight that is given to Russhole be used to traumatize some poor hookers.

I disagree and there are basically two reasons the first is cost, Null has to spend a lot of money on Greer which is money he could spend elsewhere doing something else.

Second is that Greer only managed to get to this position because the 10th made a really stupid decision. That changes the nature of the case, and makes what should be a completely nonviable case somewhat viable.

I know settling is not a fun, flashy or exciting thing to do that makes people feel good, but it is sometimes the right financial and business decision.


There is an argument to be made about blood in the water regarding something like what the 10th did happening again, in the face of more lolsuits.