Should prostitution be legal?

[Stan]

Buying pussy is a transaction, where a woman is selling an asset and/or labor depending on how you want to look at it.
It's not drugs. It's not murder. In an ethical transaction without pimps involved, it's not rape. It's not violence. It's consensual sex for money.

This could be true if women and men were of equal strength, and men and women faced equal risks when they had sex, and any whore was able to decline to service any john for any reason, but IRL that isn't true, because the following things are true:

1. Women are the sexual gatekeepers. The risk and potential consequences having sex for women are much more serious than they are for men. So women choose to have sex with relatively few men as a result of this. This is why there is a demand for whores in the first place.
2. Whores aren't making their decision to whore themselves out freely. They are almost always hooked on drugs, trafficked, an abusive BF puts them up to it, whatever.
3. "An ethical transaction without pimps involved" well, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts eh? Because there *are* pimps involved, because some johns are inevitably going to get violent, and sometimes for the johns the violence is the point. Legalization is not going to change the fact that some men are going to treat whores like this, so pimps will always be necessary, and those pimps often victimize the whores they're supposed to "protect". Putting the state in the position of pimp doesn't change any of that.
4. Because of the differences in strength between men and women, the types of coercion used to get women to whore themselves out, and the one-sidedness of the coercion (men coercing women to be whores, whether they're the john or the pimp), then it becomes impossible to just zone in on "the transaction" of whoring as if it takes place in a vacuum.

The human body is not illegal. As a society we are expected to use our bodies to perform labor in order to survive. But we shouldn't be allowed to sell sex services specifically? Why is that? Muh morals? There's nothing immoral about having sex. Nothing immoral about selling labor. Why is it suddenly "immoral" when those two concepts are mixed?

The risk of violence and the near-certainty that whores don't choose to become whores of their own free will.

But men don't buy undesirable women, least of all undesirable whores.

You goddamned numpty, I'm saying that if any class of women were so easy, men wouldn't buy whores at all.
If undesirable, worn-out whores didn't get clients, you wouldn't see them walking the street. But they're out there, and they do get johns, because men really are this desperate, and men tend to think that sex between different people is somehow comparable - like fucking an ugly whore five times is equal to fucking a pretty one once.

Not my fault men are like this.

Not when nobody wants to be inside their gates, then they're much more loose with opening them.

Somehow, I think that attitude would not incline "undesirable" women to want to have sex. Sneering arrogance isn't much of a turn-on. Some ugly women even get offended if you offer them money for sex. Women don't see having sex as a service divorced from who you have it with, which makes it not like a haircut or massage, which are services where the person doing it isn't that important.

It's true that fags are even less discriminating than undesirable women, but they're both pretty easy.

Apparently, even the undesirable women are hard enough to get that some hapless autistics cannot hack it. This is why there's a demand for whores - too many men who are unable or disinclined to play nice and get it the usual way.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Not my fault men are like this.

You might be on to something, regarding the bulk of men at least.

Apparently, even the undesirable women are hard enough to get that some hapless autistics cannot hack it.

Maybe, but I think at least some of them just never heard "beggars can't be choosers".

 

[Stan]

Maybe, but I think at least some of them just never heard "beggars can't be choosers".

Not sure if you mean the ugly women who would rather not have sex with anyone than have sex with a seething retard or someone who disdains them, or the men who believe that having sex is some kind of human right, and if they can't find a partner the normal way they should be able to buy a partner they otherwise could not have.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Not sure if you mean the ugly women who would rather not have sex with anyone than have sex with a seething retard or someone who disdains them, or the men who believe that having sex is some kind of human right, and if they can't find a partner the normal way they should be able to buy a partner they otherwise could not have.

Maybe it can apply to both parties now that I think about it, since some of these ostensibly female creatures probably somehow have deluded themselves into overvaluing their wares. The men you mentioned who will fuck anything may partially to blame for that.

But I was mostly referring to men who refuse to lower their standards, I don't think "incels" exist so much as men who feel entitled to hot chicks.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

This could be true if women and men were of equal strength, and men and women faced equal risks when they had sex, and any whore was able to decline to service any john for any reason, but IRL that isn't true, because the following things are true:

If prostitution is legal, then it should be under the same protections and pretenses as other legal forms of labor. There are tons of legal forms of labor that are statistically more dangerous than prostitution. Therefore I don't think the "women's safety" point holds little meaning when it comes to the point of legality. You would not have to fear going to the authorities about being assaulted if you didn't have to hide your profession, and you can choose to avoid niggers, thugs, and other shitfaces in favor of clientele you can safely vet if you want.

The risk of violence and the near-certainty that whores don't choose to become whores of their own free will.

I see your point being that prostitution can very dangerous for women. But stating that no one would sell sex willingly is blatantly ridiculous. Women are constantly floundering online for attention and money from men, and use their bodies for it all the time. In fact, to add to that, the only reason why OnlyFans and porn are so out of control is because the simps stuck to them can't just drive to a brothel and have a go.

Prostitution should be legal because making it illegal simply takes away the choice for someone to sell their body. It's their fucking body, let them sell it. The circumstances surrounding illegal prostitution as opposed to legal prostitution are very different, so talking about how illegal prostitution works (pimps, drugs, abuse, etc.) as opposed to legal prostitution (brothels, self-employment) doesn't fly either.

 

[PonderosaPete]

Make whatever laws you want, as long as I control the whores.

 

[Major]

it already is legal here

 

[JamusActimus]

Women are nearly always smaller than men and weaker for their size, so in nearly every circumstance, whores are vulnerable to violence from their clients. This problem is made worse by pimps, who ostensibly are there to "protect" whores from violent clients, but in practice, are just as often violent. If whoring was legalized, we could add the state to the list of parties capable of visiting violence on whores,

You're a big strong girl yourself.
There's not that much violence on whores when I am from since there's no pimp and where's can call a special to number to have specialized cops come in of they are confronted to violent client.

They are not scared to call the cops if it's legal.

 

[Stan]

If prostitution is legal, then it should be under the same protections and pretenses as other legal forms of labor. There are tons of legal forms of labor that are statistically more dangerous than prostitution. Therefore I don't think the "women's safety" point holds little meaning when it comes to the point of legality. You would not have to fear going to the authorities about being assaulted if you didn't have to hide your profession, and you can choose to avoid niggers, thugs, and other shitfaces in favor of clientele you can safely vet if you want.

Not sure I agree. One, you're just replacing the thugs and pimps for the state - and the state is certainly able to discriminate, subject whores to violence, or force them into unsafe working conditions, because it's done that before for less contentious forms of labor.

What I want to emphasize is the coercion. Men who work as lumberjacks may work a job that's comparably dangerous to being a whore, but lumberjacks aren't coerced into their job the way whores are. (Lumberjacks are not, for example, commonly hooked on drugs and then turned towards lumberjacking by their dealer when they are unable to pay for their habit.) I think this atmosphere of coercion is impossible to divorce from whoring. The johns use money to coerce women into fucking them who otherwise wouldn't, the pimps use violence to coerce women to keep "working" when they don't want to, and I'm not even convinced that the most arduous vetting programme (which would lose tons of johns - these guys want sex 4 cash now, no questions asked) is going to weed out every lunatic who might try to stab the whore to death once he gets into a private room with her.

I see your point being that prostitution can very dangerous for women. But stating that no one would sell sex willingly is blatantly ridiculous. Women are constantly floundering online for attention and money from men, and use their bodies for it all the time. In fact, to add to that, the only reason why OnlyFans and porn are so out of control is because the simps stuck to them can't just drive to a brothel and have a go.

OnlyFans is popular because it's a lot safer than in person prostitution, or really any kind of whoring where the client can touch you.

A desire for attention is not a good reason to become a whore - unless that woman doesn't mind getting mostly negative attention, and being expected to disappear afterward. It's similar to panhandling, you may be out in the open (or have your picture up in public, etc.) but many people walk past you as if you don't exist. The job isn't like acting or whatever, nobody admires a whore. There's no lifetime achievement awards for whores.

Prostitution should be legal because making it illegal simply takes away the choice for someone to sell their body. It's their fucking body, let them sell it.

There's a lot of things the law won't permit people to sell. Heroin, children, poached African ivory - just because there is a demand for something doesn't necessarily justify its trade. If there are a bunch of negative externalities to selling H, it doesn't matter whether the buyer and seller are willing, because society has to bear the cost.

The circumstances surrounding illegal prostitution as opposed to legal prostitution are very different, so talking about how illegal prostitution works (pimps, drugs, abuse, etc.) as opposed to legal prostitution (brothels, self-employment) doesn't fly either.

Pimps are (ostensibly) responsible for the whore's personal safety in exchange for a cut of her earnings.
Brothers are also (ostensibly) responsible

The circumstances surrounding illegal prostitution as opposed to legal prostitution are very different, so talking about how illegal prostitution works (pimps, drugs, abuse, etc.) as opposed to legal prostitution (brothels, self-employment) doesn't fly either.

Pimps are (ostensibly) responsible for the whore's personal safety in exchange for a cut of her earnings.
Brothels are also (ostensibly) responsible for the whore's personal safety in exchange for a cut of her earnings.
Apart from the fact that brothel owners are usually characterized as "madams", and brothels are in buildings, I don't see much difference between these two forms of whore management.

You're a big strong girl yourself.

The advantage is somewhat lost if one's opponent has a weapon and you're unarmed in your underwear.

There's not that much violence on whores when I am from since there's no pimp and where's can call a special to number to have specialized cops come in of they are confronted to violent client.

Tell me you're from Germany without saying it lol.

They are not scared to call the cops if it's legal.

It's legal to report crime to the cops even if you are a whore, and even if you were victimized in the course of whoring. So legality really shouldn't be much of a barrier either way. But real life shows us that attitudes are sometimes more important than the letter of the law.

But attitudes are slow to change and LEOs are anything but neutral bystanders. There was this one guy in Vancouver, Willie Pickton. He managed to disappear dozens of whores to his property in West Coquitlam, murder them, dispose of their bodies, over a period of many years. He was a known john in Vancouver, Willie and his brother were already under surveillance because of their ties to the Hell's Angels, the women kept on disappearing, Pickton was on "bad date" lists kept by activist groups, he even got stabbed once by a whore who escaped his knife, and the families weren't exactly slouches about following up, but the cops (on an individual level and on an institutional level) just didn't care enough to really investigate it. He was found out ultimately when a warrant was obtained over illegal guns in his trailer... once someone got inside and found the missing women's clothing, shoes, purses, and IDs, it was no longer something that could be ignored.

I just find these real-life data to be hard to overlook... Vancouver is supposed to be woke, but still nobody in authority really cared. Would making prostitution legal make such a big difference to enforcement? I'm skeptical that it would.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

I think this atmosphere of coercion is impossible to divorce from whoring.

Your entire viewpoint hinges on this, so I'm zeroing in on this.
If you were to go look for experiences from high paid escorts now, or see their experiences, they vet their clientele already. They pick and choose who they will service.
Even then, they discuss terms with their clients before exchanging money for their services to make sure both parties are on the same page.
There is no harm done to society if Lucy advertises her pussy, and Frank offers her the money, and Lucy says she'll do him for it.

I'm not even convinced that the most arduous vetting programme (which would lose tons of johns - these guys want sex 4 cash now, no questions asked) is going to weed out every lunatic who might try to stab the whore to death once he gets into a private room with her.

And your counterargument is this, which assumes that the chances of servicing a psychopath are high enough that doing the job should be discouraged.
What's stopping a psychopath from calling a plumber to their house to kill them, then? Should we tack up the "you might have to service a psychopath" risk to any job that requires you to be in a room alone with someone? You're reaching extremely far with this.

Since I know women are the gatekeepers for intercourse, and according to you, they suffer the worst from prostitution.
Does that mean you'd have no problem with male prostitution since the risk to them is slightly closer to zero?

I just get the vibe you are clueless as to the reality of modern sex work and have your viewpoint hammered into you from television and movies, because what you're describing about prostitution doesn't reflect modern sex work in its entirety, only a subset of it.

 

[JamusActimus]

The advantage is somewhat lost if one's opponent has a weapon and you're unarmed in your underwear.

Reminds me of the black dude shanking up an old white with a knife he had hidden in his ass.
The real ones remember.

 

[JamusActimus]

Tell me you're from Germany without saying it lol.

Lol wrong

I just find these real-life data to be hard to overlook... Vancouver is supposed to be woke, but still nobody in authority really cared. Would making prostitution legal make such a big difference to enforcement? I'm skeptical that it would.

There's no whore serial killer where I am from.

 

[RichardMongler]

@Stan, how do you feel about the vast swaths of women from relatively decent homes who've done OnlyFans on the side? The type of women who've gone to college/uni and monetized their bodies online. I'm not talking about the women who've posed nude once or twice. I'm talking about the e-whores who cater to niche fetishes/kinks (cosplay, BDSM, vore, et cetera) while still maintaining stable 9-5 jobs. They don't make enough to float on it alone, but the supplemental income can afford fancy vacations or other luxuries. It was explained to me that the women are simply playing characters despite having unsimulated sex with other men. They maintain strict levels of separation between their online sex life and personal life.

Then, there are women who think they're going to hit the big time shaking their ass for cash. Are they victims or merely greedy?

Genuinely interested in what you have to say. I've generally been in the legalization camp, but the responses have given me pause.

 

[Stan]

Your entire viewpoint hinges on this, so I'm zeroing in on this.
If you were to go look for experiences from high paid escorts now, or see their experiences, they vet their clientele already. They pick and choose who they will service.

I know some vetting occurs. But you're still going to deal with markets - there are going to be women desperate enough to skip the vetting process, and there will be psychos who manage to sneak through no matter how complicated and thorough your escort agency (aka highbrow pimps) is. And the state can't bring someone back from the dead if she chooses the wrong john.

Even then, they discuss terms with their clients before exchanging money for their services to make sure both parties are on the same page.
There is no harm done to society if Lucy advertises her pussy, and Frank offers her the money, and Lucy says she'll do him for it.

Lucy isn't making her choice to "advertise her pussy" in a vacuum though, or as if this is just one job of many she could do. There's capitalistic forces at work - say, Lucy can't earn enough to pay rent doing any other kind of job. There's the fact that most whores have some kind of SUD, and that they "work" as whores in service of their drug habit (and often, their BF's drug habit too.) There's the men in Lucy's life who may have put her up to this... I find that context difficult to ignore.

Honestly, nobody makes these choices in a vacuum - you're always beholden to something. But whores seem much less in control of their "career" than other kinds of workers, even other types of illegal workers (eg. drug dealers.)

And your counterargument is this, which assumes that the chances of servicing a psychopath are high enough that doing the job should be discouraged.
What's stopping a psychopath from calling a plumber to their house to kill them, then? Should we tack up the "you might have to service a psychopath" risk to any job that requires you to be in a room alone with someone? You're reaching extremely far with this.

While the risk to say, pizza delivery people and plumbers isn't nil, it is much reduced compared to the kind of risk a whore takes. Also, plumbers usually don't have to worry about their bosses being equally if not more violent towards them than their clients.

Since I know women are the gatekeepers for intercourse, and according to you, they suffer the worst from prostitution.
Does that mean you'd have no problem with male prostitution since the risk to them is slightly closer to zero?

Men whores who have sex with other men are doing so on a much more level playing field. There's less demand - I mentioned that before - because gay men are more willing to fuck around than women. But men are going to be more physically equal to their johns than women; they're not categorically disadvantaged compared to their clients the way women tend to be.

There's no whore serial killer where I am from.

I'm gonna press X to doubt, there are whore serial killers pretty much everywhere. The whole job, such as it is, makes whores vulnerable to violence in a way I don't think gets remediated even if the state takes on the role of pimp.

I just get the vibe you are clueless as to the reality of modern sex work and have your viewpoint hammered into you from television and movies, because what you're describing about prostitution doesn't reflect modern sex work in its entirety, only a subset of it.

Books and sociological papers, plus way too much time working with HIV-positive, opioid-addicted whores on Mass n Cass.
I get the vibe you're a self-interested party involved in whoring somehow who wants to believe that something too good to be true. (i.e. you could somehow make whoring safe and still pull in buckets of money doing it.) But what do we gain from that kind of speculation, besides learning each other's unkind impressions of the other?

 

[Pomniman]

Women don't need to get that sweaty, there's plenty to go around.

Not "women", just you. No one else is that prolifically ass hungry.

 

[Stan]

Not "women", just you. No one else is that prolifically ass hungry.

Then I'm real spoiled for choice, aren't I?

 

[isalaide]

No.

 

[Doctor Love]

Should be be legal: yes
Should everyone involved be thoroughly looked down on and face massive social pressure not to: yes

They are not scared to call the cops if it's legal.

What's your opinion on owning a Thompson submachine gun? Should this be legal or not?

There was a tolerance zone in Leeds a while back and it wrecked the area

It's really disturbing that there's such widespread acceptance. Question for the women, who's the more dangerous man? The man with many guns, or the man who thinks prostitution should be legal?

 

[Penis Drager 2.0]

If we make it legal, it should come with the Russell Greer clause:
Prostitutes are to be exempt from all discrimination laws.

If someone is made to have sex with someone they don't want to, even if it's technically their job, under threat of legal consequence then the state is complicit in rape.

 

[grump]

Yes

If spending tens/hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars on a woman over a period of years to get her to put out is okay and even expected then what is wrong with spending a few hundred or a couple thousand over the day? Its the same thing but you're not wasting anyone's time.

There are plenty of guys too old too shy etc to get laid or at least get the type of woman they want the traditional way. What is the reasoning that they should be condemned to remain a virgin all their life if theres people out there willing to help them? Theres a man in his sixties who's alone and lonely all the women his age are in a relationship or wrinkly and he just wants a young hottie for a night. Or a 30 year old virgin who has never had any luck. Who are you to come stomping into their life uninvited and say to them they will never have sex again even though theres willing women just because society doesn't like the specific way they pay even though everybody pays for sex in some way. That seems extremely cruel. What did they ever do to you personally that you want to condemn them to such a fate?

If homosexuality and transgenderism are okay because 'my body my choice' and 'two consenting adults' prostitution should be legal under exactly the same logic. Institutionalizing such blatent hypocrisy. x is fine but y is not because I don't like it is a very toxic thing. More toxic that the damage that prostitution will supposedly do. There is no good logic I'm aware of to outlaw prostitution yet allow many of the other things we do without question.

Both the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right agree that prostitution should be banned. When these two groups agree on something. You should be especially suspicious of it.

The group that really dislikes prostitution are jealous ugly old women scared that men will gain the option to always be able to bang a hot young chick whenever they wish. They want men to be controlled and under their power and miserable. And a major way to control especially men is through sex. Being able to go out and bang a hot chick whenever you want without having to answer to a master female that can control or make you suffer by being too ugly, too tired, or too nonexistent woud be a blow to their power and worst still make men freer and perhaps happier so they can't have that. And they brainwashed many men to think the same way mostly under the guise of white knighting for poor women making bank.