Programming thread

[yydszmiteg2]

Another classic NPC line that all inCels say.
Nobody gives a shit about how you think you are all hardc0re for knowing pointers while every modern lang does it for you.

You aren't unique for knowing C and you don't want anyone else to know C. That's what all C threads are about: a bunch of 400 pound gatekeeping C whales jumping back and forth "testing" each other so they can feel better about one little obscure C thing the other didn't know.

Meanwhile in the OOP world you make a shitload of money instead of pretending to fat-flex about pointers.

I think we found the real crux of the issue here. You got laughed at by a C tard and been seething since.

There's 1000 C and ASM jobs in the world and they're all taken by 60 year olds.

Then when those people age out of the jobs the entire computing eco system will collapse. I'll wait on bait breath for that to happen. I've met people born post 2000 coding in fortran, ocaml and all sorts of other obscure/old langs beacause they need people to maintain the code bases at certain places. Not sure about ASM but C projects will be the same.

 

[0gh]

I have a very tiny penis

It's not just the tranny programmers that are retarded it seems. There's something in the water you're drinking.

You spammed the thread to push down my request for help with your autism. Hope you get threadbanned and shit in some other thread

 

[llllIllIllIIIIllI]

Damn so in five years or less, they’re going to retire out and leave behind critical, technically demanding jobs

They'll give it to a 55 year old who has been with the company not 40 years but instead 35 years. You aren't gonna get an embedded job.

I think we found the real crux of the issue here. You got laughed at by a C tard and been seething since.

I'm here to deliver truthful hatred to C niggers because occasionally one of them, their welfare runs out then they suck dick through an interview to get through it, they end up shitting all over everything I've done by just autistically "recommending" that we throw away the entire codebase and re-make everything in C and go back to 1980. They know they are full of shit because nobody is going to pay for 10 years of that shit when you could get something modern to do it in a few weeks. Also if you've ever met a C nigger, they are actually 400 pounds and scream like autistic children all the time. All they do is waste 3 months then the business realizes I was right, they get fired and probably go home and kill themselves. That's hilarious and I can jerk off to it but the next day I have to answer to the business on why we're 3 weeks in the hole. Sad reality is they don't understand code and think it's all magic so I will have to pick up the pieces.

Then when those people age out of the jobs the entire computing eco system will collapse. I'll wait on bait breath for that to happen. I've met people born post 2000 coding in fortran, ocaml and all sorts of other obscure/old langs beacause they need people to maintain the code bases at certain places. Not sure about ASM but C projects will be the same.

Same shit as the other idiot. This is another autist C tard fantasy. IE "just hold out for 20 years being a loser practicing C and then you will be at the top".
-They aren't gonna hire you, once the 80 year old dies they will promote the 60 year old and then the 40 year old already in the company.
-You're looking at less than a 0.001% chance ON TOP of all the work you have to do to learn C and then be in the right place at the right time ie you'd have to know these people AND THEN spend years learning the codebase that they have, over secondary programmers who have already been there.
-LITERALLY at any time you can just get an easy high paying remote OOP job, or TWO, or THREE.
-C jobs don't buy you equity or profit sharing on top of the salary you already make. The goal of getting in with a big company with OOP is to wait until they start a new division and then make something from scratch in like a week and then completely own it and then convince the owner to give you like 20%.
-Assuming your C tard fantasy comes true, you are 10-20 years in the hole with 0 income while OOP programmers have been working 2 remote jobs making $200k+ a year and landing opportunities with the company to take even more. So that's up to 4 million dollars that you're in the hole plus having spent 20 years on fucking welfare living in a shit hole city jerking off pretending you are better at C.
-Going this far out of your way to not use your easily transferable skills means the problem is not with the market, but your autistic dumb ass, you aren't a programmer you just found some stupid shit to pretend to obsess over to fill in your lives.

It's not just the tranny programmers that are retarded it seems. There's something in the water you're drinking.

You spammed the thread to push down my request for help with your autism. Hope you get threadbanned and shit in some other thread

Thanks to the money I make from OOP I can afford to drink Evian.

 

[yydszmiteg2]

They'll give it to a 55 year old who has been with the company not 40 years but instead 35 years. You aren't gonna get an embedded job.

Where are all these people with less and less years of experience spawning from? I want you to think really hard.

your C tard fantasy

I have no C tard fantasy. It's just basic reality that young people have to come in to maintain older systems. At first as juniors and later as seniors. Companies have to keep their pay competitive to attract them. This is just reality. If you don't like it go back to your seething fantasies.

That's hilarious and I can jerk off to it

So this really is just your personal fantasy. Lol, Lmao even.

 

[DavidS877]

C jobs don't buy you equity or profit sharing on top of the salary you already make.

I know, don't feed the trolls, but.
If you're looking for jobs with "equity" or "profit sharing" you're a moron, more than likely you're going to end up with nothing when your 3d printed AI meme company goes out of business.

Look for a company that pays a salary, that's actual money, not fake money.
Guess who pays a salary: large, established businesses trying to keep their legacy stuff running.

 

[geckogoy]

God willing all bait posters will be boiled in lard

 

[Kosher Dill]

God willing all bait posters will be boiled in lard

Did someone say lard? Save me a little, I'm down to 399 pounds and I forgot how to use pointers.

 

[DavidS877]

I forgot how to use pointers.

Put a * on it. If that doesn't work try **, if that doesn't work then try &.
Eventually some combination will do what you expect.

 

[Anti Snigger]

Put a * on it. If that doesn't work try **, if that doesn't work then try &.
Eventually some combination will do what you expect.

Most jank shit I ever did was quadruple pointers to optimize a sudoku program
I wanted the rows columns and cells already found, and I didn’t want to have to update every single entry so that was the play.

 

[Benzo Samurai]

I want to try my hand at writing programs which visually display sound. Like WinAmp or shit like that. What language + libraries should I look at for a decent cooding experience?

 

[analrapist]

I want to try my hand at writing programs which visually display sound. Like WinAmp or shit like that. What language + libraries should I look at for a decent cooding experience?

A few places to start.

https://github.com/projectM-visualizer/projectm - OG Milkdrop clone
https://github.com/Doormatty/MilkDrop2 - Milkdrop2 final source code
https://github.com/milkdrop2077/MilkDrop3 - Milkdrop3 extension

I'd start in one of these three places. Milkdrop provides a great front-end for a lot of this.

https://www.shadertoy.com/ - This is another approach, works in-browser. Develop shaders that you can use in code.

 

[GNU Abyss]

It's been 139 pages since this topic was last mentioned, so I figured I'd bring it up again with all this talk about 400 pound gatekeeping C whales. What do you think about the article C Is Not a Low-level Language (a.k.a. Your computer is not a fast PDP-11)? The TL;DR is it talks about:

1. The amount of optimizations done to code by major C compilers, which sometimes transform it into a logical chain that the programmer didn't even intend as a step invisible to most.
2. Processor designers having to emulate the PDP-11 abstract machine workflow in every CPU, which leads to increased complexity when planning new designs and may lead to exploitable behavior.

A side question that I've been curious about for a while is: are there any compiled languages today that skip the intermediate C step? I've heard that Pascal with the FreePASCAL compiler does this, although I'm not sure. To put it up front, both questions aren't knocks against C as a language.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

What do you think about the article C Is Not a Low-level Language (a.k.a. Your computer is not a fast PDP-11)?

It's completely correct. Another way in which the illusion of C as a supposed high-level assembler breaks down is how compiler vendors abuse undefined behavior in all kinds of funky ways. For instance, if you calculate x + y (where x and y are ints) and then check whether that addition overflowed afterwards, current C compilers will remove the overflow check by the following logic:
1. Signed overflow is undefined behavior;
2. undefined behavior may be assumed to never occur;
3. therefore x+y cannot overflow;
4. therefore the overflow check is always false and may be "optimized" away.
I'm not aware of any assembler that does this.

A side question that I've been curious about for a while is: are there any compiled languages today that skip the intermediate C step?

I think most languages skip the C step actually; even if they use something like LLVM under the hood (which appears to be rather popular, currently), they still usually target LLVM's internal bytecode-like language instead of actual C. Common Lisp is an example of a language where several implementations (SBCL, CCL) do the code generation entirely by themselves. I also seem to remember Go using its own weird NIH thing that even bypasses libc and does syscalls directly.

 

[Marvin]

A side question that I've been curious about for a while is: are there any compiled languages today that skip the intermediate C step? I've heard that Pascal with the FreePASCAL compiler does this, although I'm not sure.

It's not uncommon. There's quite a few Scheme compilers that compile directly to assembly, along with various ML languages too. Looking into it, Ocaml doesn't have the C layer.

Actually, I think that if a given language doesn't explicitly advertise itself as having an intermediate C layer, you can probably assume it compiles directly to assembly.

That's been my experience, anyway.

Either a language is just an interpreter (bytecode or otherwise), or it has a proper compiler, one that usually directly targets a given machine architecture without the C layer.

I think having the C layer is popular for teaching in compiler classes, because it saves a lot of manual labor and irrelevant details that aren't necessary for a Compilers 101 class. But in a production compiler, being able to micromanage every little detail from source language to bare metal can be useful. You lose a little performance (like direct jumps) if you're targeting C. (Well, that being said, you could get basically assembly-tier performance if you resorted to non-portable tricks like gcc's first class labels.)

 

[Its Vladi Bby]

Got five classes left for my CS degree and I fucking suck.

 

[geckogoy]

I haven't ever heard of a language 'compiling' into C, the only thing I can think of is early C++ was just a C autogenerator that then got compiled as C but it rather quickly moved on from that

 

[CrazyUrbanist]

are there any compiled languages today that skip the intermediate C step?

Yes in the sense that only a handful of languages emit actual C source code as an intermediate, but No in the sense that the article isn't really about C the syntax- it's that processor evolution has been deeply intertwined with and constrained by C's semantics. Modern CPU's go to herculean efforts to maintain an illusion of being a "fast PDP-11", at the cost of being a fast computer, and to the extent that we nearly forget computers don't necessarily have to work that way. It's not a coincidence that GPU's both break the rules and are now where almost all serious number crunching happens.

If you stripped away the frontend of a modern CPU and replaced it with an interface and a semantics that made the absolute most of the underlying compute units, then designed a programming language that targeted it, the result would be completely alien. The article's thesis is that all those layers we removed exist to provide the illusions C requires, and those layers make it not a "low-level" language by definition.

 

[Horribadger]

Bois I was working on a project with a buddy who was supposed to be handling the UI, but he hasn't done a single thing in months. It's in Python and I've been using just jinja, HTML and vanilla javascript because looking at any single framework user makes me want to hang myself by the balls from the tallest building I can find and yodel my way down once the sack finally rips.

So what do I do? Do I continue in the 3 above and make my own shit? Ultimately the look of the page is just css, so does it really matter, do I really need the premade stuff React has? What would be some things that I could benefit from not doing myself? Couldn't I just use standalone libraries for those things to not have extra bloat? Let's say you want to make your own Portainer interface, what could you use from React that would be better than diy/standalone libs?

I'm not trying to hate on it, just want to learn. Could use an explainer. I'm a seasoned dev so I don't need any reddit "eli5" shit, it's just that I never see these React influencers actually programming and I don't care to read random codebases so I am genuinely clueless. I don't even know what React is. How do I React? Do I watch a youtube video, pause every 5 seconds, say "haha that's true" and I magically get a user interface?

I figured React might be best to go for as I can just hook it up to whatever REST api and I could use it on my resume to impress all the single companies in my area. Other suggestions are highly appreciated of course.

Hire me, I vaguely understand how React works

 

[Anti Snigger]

Got five classes left for my CS degree and I fucking suck.

Did you like the side quest to be taught agile and all of that boring shit?

 

[DavidS877]

Got five classes left for my CS degree and I fucking suck.

If you can speak English and communicate well you're already in the top 20%.