Megathread Jesse Singal Derangement Syndrome - jsingal69 vs TroonWorld

[Sayer of the N-Word]

I have had the bad luck to know junkies who have been forced into narcanon programs multiple times, and they always relapsed because the groups were like Scientologists when it came to the idea of supplemental or alternative treatments, and shamed people for even bringing it up. Then, after the relapse, the junkies would be made to feel like shit before the group love bombed them again. Then the cycle would start all over. It's cult behavior, and I don't think that because I don't need any phony god's blessings or because I am enlightened by my intelligence.

 

[pee pee pooner]

I have had the bad luck to know junkies who have been forced into narcanon programs multiple times, and they always relapsed because the groups were like Scientologists when it came to the idea of supplemental or alternative treatments, and shamed people for even bringing it up. Then, after the relapse, the junkies would be made to feel like shit before the group love bombed them again. Then the cycle would start all over. It's cult behavior, and I don't think that because I don't need any phony god's blessings or because I am enlightened by my intelligence.

That’s fair. I was probably being too general, but I do think the person I described is definitely one type of anti 12 stepper. I’m sure there are some terrible groups that turn people off all similar programs.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

Naltrexone & Ozempic to me fall into the same bucket. It's good for people to get their health together, but they both point to you ultimately still having a flawed character who has no will power over their own decisions.

People are often inspired by someone who has lost a significant amount of weight or overcome addiction because we recognize the immense effort and determination it took to achieve those changes. On the other hand, there are people who take shortcuts ( drugs) and still seek admiration or recognition, as if they've accomplished something equally transformative. It feels very modern, I want attention & recognition for basically no work.

Before anyone spergs at me, I say this as someone 6+ years sober.

 

[Zemblan Physics]

Before anyone spergs at me, I say this as someone 6+ years sober.

That’s impressive, good for you. That’s hard work. It doesn’t mean I can’t disagree with you about drugs being shortcuts, though. Shortcuts to what? I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s a little smug to suggest that the way you’ve been able to stay sober is the only true path and that everyone agrees about that. I don’t agree, though.

To me, if someone improves their level of functioning by taking Antabuse, Naltrexone or even metadone/buprenorphine, that’s a win for that person and for society. Sobriety in and of itself isn’t some moral flex.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s a little smug to suggest that the way you’ve been able to stay sober is the only true path and that everyone agrees about that.

I didn't say that. So it's a little smug of you to imply that when you obviously have a 3rd grade level of reading comprehension.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

Because Dublin has changed massively and it's such a just-so story, Jesse the vegetarian hook-nosed faggot wanted to insert a "Oh, then I saw the Irish ruffians brawling in a donnybrook!" because it's such a hackneyed cliché. It's exactly the sort of vivid colorful bullshit storytelling he and Katie love to blab about, like it's daring to grab those stereotypes and blather about them. These days in Dublin you're more likely to be stabbed by a Muslim migrant parasite than watch Irishmen do fisticuffs.

Call me a cuck or whatever, but I live in Dublin and that's absolutely not true, you still see random drunk people fighting and threatening people constantly and truthfully, immigrants give you nowhere near as much hassle as born and bred Irish people going back 15 generations when you are just trying to mind your own business.

 

[Sayer of the N-Word]

That’s impressive, good for you. That’s hard work. It doesn’t mean I can’t disagree with you about drugs being shortcuts, though. Shortcuts to what? I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s a little smug to suggest that the way you’ve been able to stay sober is the only true path and that everyone agrees about that. I don’t agree, though.

To me, if someone improves their level of functioning by taking Antabuse, Naltrexone or even metadone/buprenorphine, that’s a win for that person and for society. Sobriety in and of itself isn’t some moral flex.

Looking down on people who treat addiction like a medical issue instead of a moral one is what they were talking about in the naltrexone episode when Christianity was brought into the discussion. It's not good enough to take a pill to lose an addiction to alcohol, you need to suffer, seek redemption, and continually atone for it to really count.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

take a pill to lose an addiction to alcohol,

You're still addicted. The pill doesn't change that. You're still exactly the same as a person , because you didn't actually do anything.

 

[monstrous bubo]

You're still addicted. The pill doesn't change that. You're still exactly the same as a person , because you didn't actually do anything.

The benefit of the chemical fix is that it can remove the really destructive symptom - drinking - quickly. That can make it easier to address the underlying cause. The problem, if I’m reading you right, is that AA requires you to do that work simultaneously with stopping the physical act of drinking. Taking a pill doesn’t. Without a structure (such as AA) to support a person’s examination of the cause, they won’t actually bother because people are lazy. The widespread use of pills without a second stage of treatment therefore means the addict will be at high risk of picking another self-destructive behaviour.

if that’s a reasonable paraphrase, then that’s fair enough. I don’t know enough about the science to poke holes at the assumptions in that, nor have I dealt with addiction personally. I will merely note that it is early days for these treatments, and clearly a treatment model that requires introspection doesn’t work for shallow people like Ms Herzog. It will be interesting to see what happens with her and others once the surprise of sobriety wears off.

 

[FATTESTCUNT 2.0]

they both point to you ultimately still having a flawed character who has no will power over their own decisions

What is it that makes you believe that anyone has free will over their own decisions?

 

[Sayer of the N-Word]

You're still addicted. The pill doesn't change that. You're still exactly the same as a person , because you didn't actually do anything.

I always thought being an addict meant that you felt an unhealthy compulsion to consume something or engage in some dangerous behavior, and Katie no longer feels any such compulsion unless we count her weed use, which is played up for laughs, and her obsession with her dog, who is an obvious substitute for the children she claims not to want. That "you're still addicted, no matter what!" claptrap is just twelve stepper dogma, and you can cope and seethe about it all you want, but clearly that is no longer true, if it ever was.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

That "you're still addicted, no matter what!" claptrap is just twelve stepper dogma, and you can cope and seethe about it all you want, but clearly that is no longer true, if it ever was.

I feel no desire to drink or do drugs anymore, so I do not follow "the 12 step dogma" that I am an addict for life.

If Katie were to stop taking Naltrexone, she’d spiral right back. Why? Because she hasn’t done the real work. There’s no transformation, no battle for self-control. She’s simply sedated, her addiction is lurking under the surface untouched.

The only ones coping and seething here are the enablers, the hand-wringing apologists who champion the coddling of addicts while rejecting personal responsibility outright. We live in an era that sanitizes everything especially addiction by stripping it of its deeper, existential meaning.

 

[Ivan Daniloff]

I feel no desire to drink or do drugs anymore, so I do not follow "the 12 step dogma" that I am an addict for life.

If Katie were to stop taking Naltrexone, she’d spiral right back. Why? Because she hasn’t done the real work. There’s no transformation, no battle for self-control. She’s simply sedated, her addiction is lurking under the surface untouched.

The only ones coping and seething here are the enablers, the hand-wringing apologists who champion the coddling of addicts while rejecting personal responsibility outright. We live in an era that sanitizes everything especially addiction by stripping it of its deeper, existential meaning.

Am I misremembering the Reflector episode? I thought KH said she had stopped taking the pill but was still sober without much jittering.

 

[Marvin]

If Katie were to stop taking Naltrexone, she’d spiral right back. Why? Because she hasn’t done the real work. There’s no transformation, no battle for self-control. She’s simply sedated, her addiction is lurking under the surface untouched.

No, as I understand it, for individuals it works for, the Sinclair method can be discontinued after a certain point without losing the progress gained. It produces long term results.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

No, as I understand it, for individuals it works for, the Sinclair method can be discontinued after a certain point without losing the progress gained. It produces long term results.

Not if they ever drink again. You have to always take the pill before you drink for the rest of your life .

Suboxone, Methadone, Naltrexone—they've been around forever, but addiction rates are still higher than ever. Keep holding onto this naive idea that a pill can fix what’s really a deep, complicated struggle.

 

[Ivan Daniloff]

Not if they ever drink again. You have to always take the pill before you drink for the rest of your life .

Suboxone, Methadone, Naltrexone—they've been around forever, but addiction rates are still higher than ever. Keep holding onto this naive idea that a pill can fix what’s really a deep, complicated struggle.

Katie doesn’t drink. Did you listen to the Reflector episode?

 

[Bani]

Naltrexone & Ozempic to me fall into the same bucket. It's good for people to get their health together, but they both point to you ultimately still having a flawed character who has no will power over their own decisions.

People are often inspired by someone who has lost a significant amount of weight or overcome addiction because we recognize the immense effort and determination it took to achieve those changes. On the other hand, there are people who take shortcuts ( drugs) and still seek admiration or recognition, as if they've accomplished something equally transformative. It feels very modern, I want attention & recognition for basically no work.

Before anyone spergs at me, I say this as someone 6+ years sober.

I like Katie a lot as a podcast host, but I have to agree that the drug alone won't do much to solve the psychological issues at the heart of addictive behavior. From what little I know, it seems like it primarily deals with the "craving" a person experiences for alcohol. If the drug is as viable as she suggests, it should still probably be paired with therapy. Not necessarily AA or a 12 step program, but therapeutic support more generally. There's a real risk that even if someone is able to kick one habit, they'll move on to another; the classic example of this is someone who switches to compulsive eating after they quit smoking. I sometimes wonder if Katie began leaning more heavily on weed after she quit drinking, but that's pure speculation.

 

[Zemblan Physics]

Not everyone with an addiction has other psychological issues. Some just have shitty genetics, some just like to use.

 

[Oxyjen]

Katie doesn’t drink. Did you listen to the Reflector episode?

Just listening to the “Dasvidanya” episode and.. oh no… Katie sounds absolutely sloshed. There’s an edit every few words too, which isn’t normal.

 

[Criticallacitirc]

Not everyone with an addiction has other psychological issues. Some just have shitty genetics, some just like to use.

Yall are just like the apologists for fatties "oh it's just genetics" . Talk about coping. Ozempic proved these people had no self control & were over eating. It's the same for addicts.

I'm waiting with baited breath for the miracle cure of naltrexone ( In use since 1984 for addiction) to solve this countries addiction problems with just a single pill. Should happen any day now. No counseling, no therapy, no inner work! Just a pill to solve your problems. What a time to be alive.