LawTube - Lawyers sperging at each other on YouTube

[Grumpy_Mushroom]

Heh, Good Lawgic? More like...

*BAD* LAWGIC!

I stand by this appraisal now more then ever

 

[SMOCAINE 4]

But ultimately something like this is going to happen if you are a lawyer letting non-lawyers send out "subpoenas" bearing your signature.

"Did we get the default judgment on Mr. Levy?" says Joe Lawgic, a stooge and not actually checking.

"Yeah boss," says the paralegal, not actually checking either. Nobody actually remembers what this case is about.

"Okay, send out post-judgment discovery, I'm busy checking out this new 'LawTube' Thing. No need for me review." Joe slithers away.

You guys are giving him way too much credit. This is just a sleazeball trying to place some fault on a paralegal. Standard operating procedure. It’s a 50/50 if the paralegal was even involved at all or is just being offered up as a fall guy (still his fault, either way, stupid tactic).

 

[Lian Xing]

You guys are giving him way too much credit. This is just a sleazeball trying to place some fault on a paralegal. Standard operating procedure. It’s a 50/50 if the paralegal was even involved at all or is just being offered up as a fall guy (still his fault, either way, stupid tactic).

Yeah, but with strict liability in the statute, you'd think he'd be more careful. The hubris of the jew really is unbounded.

 

[Himedall All-seeing Waifu]

I honestly didn't think anyone would touch it. It will be interesting how Joe reacts and hopefully someone can get access to his local streams.

From his October 2nd LOCALS stream:



He plans to address it TONIGHT!

Chat:

Spoiler: What he was responding to

 

[Not Really Here]

TheLeadAttorney*† (family)

Been retired for years, runs masterclass consulting.

GoodLawgic† (small business/debt collection and constitutional Trump nonsense)

Sold the debt collection business when he went full time Youtuber.

Barnes*† (constitutional law... I guess?) - I'm unclear if he's actively consulting.

He's representing Amish people in a variety of cases, and represented Kiwifarms in a Wisconsin case that didn't end with stalker children in prison(active practice).

UncivilLaw (copyright)

Doing the same solicitation of clients Nate is for a prospective class action case.

 

[Third World Aristocrat]

From his October 2nd LOCALS stream:

View attachment 6489325

He plans to address it TONIGHT!

View attachment 6489431

Chat:

Spoiler: What he was responding to

View attachment 6489324

View attachment 6489328

View attachment 6489329

"...a 'letter' that went out, [...] which went out to a debtor, should not have been sent..."
"...there were legal flaws in the 'letter'; it was basically demanding a subpoena, it was issuing a subpoena across state lines..."
"...he sued me personally because my name was on it; the letter was signed off by someone else [...] that stamped my signature on it. And I'm technically obliged to be aware of anything like that..."
"...they were initially demanding 25,000 dollars..."

So Joe, you KNEW you were on the wrong side here. Why did you not settle this?

"Trust me, if there is a 100,000 dollar judgment against Meme Copium, no one would actually care, nobody would bother with it..."
"He is... (referring to Meme Copium) This is the classic 'loser' trying to 'punch up.'"
"If anything, I think that makes me look sympathetic..."

Is narcissism contagious?

 

[Yandex Captcha Solver]

The amount of cope from Joe is off the charts. He violated the FDCPA regardless of whether or not the debt was valid multiple times, while a very invalid supeona via regular mail across state lines on top of the FDCPA violations (hell as a non-lawyer I know you need to SERVE people properly). Sending a piece of non-registered mail to 'serve' someone is highly improper unless the court would authorize it for whatever reason. He can cry about the $117k being unfair, but the only reason why it was that high is because Joe dragged it on for some hail marry. He could have settled easily for a fraction of that very early on.

Debt collectors are some of the scummiest individuals and will do anything to get their money. Can't wait to see Joe complain about how the court should have decided he was not a debt collector under the FDCPA and was merely trying to collect sold debts. If your going to practice the law in a highly regulated industry, you should be dotting your i's and crossing your t's very closely.

If Joe got caught on this one, I wonder how many more people he tried to pull this move with. I'm guessing his letter was a template document so most likely all his letters up to the point of this letter were the same. Unless he decided the industry standard letter wasn't effective enough as time went on and decided to try to scare consumers by violating the law.

 

[Potatoherder]

Joe is reacting the same way Nick did when he was questioned on being monogamous. I bet if you dig you will find this is common practice for Joe.

 

[Balldo's Gate]

So Joe, you KNEW you were on the wrong side here. Why did you not settle this?

Joe was ordered to pay $117k. If they were "demanding, like, out of the gate, like, $25,000", he would have saved OVER $92,000 by accepting that offer, not including any expenses associated with his defense, not to mention time and stress.

"I didn't have $25,000 to give him."
Hopefully Joe has $117,000 now!

"These lawyers were just, insanely aggressive. And completely unwilling to settle at any stage of the [way?]. It was basically like, 'How do I get out of this? How do I like, make this thing end and just pay' - no. No. It was just no way to, like, make it end. It was just nothing I can do."
But he already admitted that he rejected an offer to settle the case for barely over a fifth of what he was ultimately ordered to pay.

He then says he personally incurred "roughly $40,000" in legal fees after he retained counsel in the last year or so, before which he was fighting it himself.

That alone is $15,000 more than what he said was the plaintiff's settlement offer.

Is narcissism contagious?

Joe has over 5.6x the number of subscribers, but his streams get similar views to the Meme Copium streams.

According to Social Blade, Joe got 208k video views from August to September of this year, only 20,000 more than Meme Copium.

5.6x the number of subscribers, 1.1x the monthly views.

The viewership to laugh at what's left of Loltube is about the same size as the viewership for the Loltube lolyers themselves.
(The potential viewership, assuming equal subscriber numbers, is probably much larger,)

 

[TherapyMan]

So Joe, you KNEW you were on the wrong side here. Why did you not settle this?

Joe was ordered to pay $117k. If they were "demanding, like, out of the gate, like, $25,000", he would have saved OVER $92,000 by accepting that offer, not including any expenses associated with his defense, not to mention time and stress.

"These lawyers were just, insanely aggressive. And completely unwilling to settle at any stage of the [way?]. It was basically like, 'How do I get out of this? How do I like, make this thing end and just pay' - no. No. It was just no way to, like, make it end. It was just nothing I can do."
But he already admitted that he rejected an offer to settle the case for barely over a fifth of what he was ultimately ordered to pay.

He then says he personally incurred "roughly $40,000" in legal fees after he retained counsel in the last year or so, before which he was fighting it himself.

It's because Joe did likely did not correctly diagnose how dangerous the issue of fee recovery would be, especially because he was representing himself at the start.

Sometimes when you're bent over a barrel like Joe was, and the opposing counsel knows it, opposing counsel will come in with an offer far more than the case would actually be worth to settle. In this case, the Court eventually determined the actual damages of the case was $8,000, so that's use that as a baseline for the case is actually worth. Frankly, $25,000 in damages for this is pretty preposterous—it's nearly 3x the amount of damages the court awarded. But Joe either ignored the problem of fee recovery or thought he could prevail on the issue. Notice that basically all of the 117K judgment comes from the attorney's fees and costs, which make up $109,139.24 of the total recovery.

Since the statute permits recovery of attorney's fees, Plaintiff here can force a higher settlement by running up a whole bunch of attorney's fees, so every new filing or argument they make, the number for settlement goes up. It is by no means necessary to accrue over $100,000 in attorney's fees to try this sort of case, but Plaintiff likely did not care that the tab was running because they knew they'd get the fees back eventually. Notice that Plaintiff's fees are over double Joe's fees. Because Joe did not immediately pay them off the $25,000 to fuck off, he got caught in the quicksand trap of being in an ever-worsening state where this $8000 mistake ballooned into a $100K+ case due to fees.

It's a hard situation to be in. Joe should have immediately realized he was cooked and took the $25K offer. But it's difficult to eat crow like that right out of the gate, and once you're past the first and best offer, you're fucked.

 

[Potatoherder]

Joe has over 5.6x the number of subscribers, but his streams get similar views to the Meme Copium streams.

According to Social Blade, Joe got 208k video views from August to September of this year, only 20,000 more than Meme Copium.

5.6x the number of subscribers, 1.1x the monthly views.

The viewership to laugh at what's left of Loltube is about the same size as the viewership for the Loltube lolyers themselves.
(The potential viewership, assuming equal subscriber numbers, is probably much larger,)

But Joe has a way better monetization base. Last month Joe took in $7,128 and Meme Copium in total channel superchats has $2,386.

Joe is playing with fire though. If Trump doesn't win his channel is fucked. Nick did a similar thing in 2020 and it didn't work out for him. Unlike Nick, Joe cannot pivot back to anything as he never did anything but pro-trump politics.

 

[AnOminous]

I am impressed that Sean is standing up to the bullies in Lawtube and does not back down from covering topics that will surely get him in hot waters with the people he used to appear on panels with. He used to be so shy and meek, easily talked over by the likes of Nick and Joe.

I think he kind of got redpilled with Nick's deranged, retarded struggle session shit.

ETA: snipped quote because I misread @TherapyMan's post.

 

[Balldo's Gate]

It's because Joe did likely did not correctly diagnose how dangerous the issue of fee recovery would be, especially because he was representing himself at the start.

Then he's just an idiot. In the business he was in, he should have known the FDCPA.

Sometimes when you're bent over a barrel like Joe was, and the opposing counsel knows it, opposing counsel will come in with an offer far more than the case would actually be worth to settle. In this case, the Court eventually determined the actual damages of the case was $8,000, so that's use that as a baseline for the case is actually worth. Frankly, $25,000 in damages for this is pretty preposterous—it's nearly 3x the amount of damages the court awarded. But Joe either ignored the problem of fee recovery or thought he could prevail on the issue. Notice that basically all of the 117K judgment comes from the attorney's fees and costs, which make up $109,139.24 of the total recovery.

When they have a moron determined to fight a routine claim all the way, they're going to try to rack up as many hours as possible, and they have an excuse to do so.

Notice that Plaintiff's fees are over double Joe's fees. Because Joe did not immediately pay them off the $25,000 to fuck off, he got caught in the quicksand trap of being in an ever-worsening state where this $8000 mistake ballooned into a $100K+ case due to fees.

Not comparable. Joe was acting pro se for much of the case. Joe said he only retained counsel "in the last, like, year".

In the video above, Joe says "if [he] had a lawyer throughout this whole thing, this whole thing would have ended up costing [him] like a half million dollars."

Subtract the judgment amount from that $500k and you're left with $382k, over double the $187.7k the plaintiff asked for in attorney's fees to begin with which was ruled to be too high, and well over triple what the ultimate total judgment was.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

I like how Joe is trying to play it off and be "cool", while he is coping and seething under that thin veneer.

Just like Nick he right away started to "blame the system", while he himself has been a part of the scummiest part of the legal system for years.
He claims it was a racket to make money off the case and then KNOWINGLY ran into the sawblades laughing.

The lies are so badly disguised even. He pretends he could not settle no matter what, but already explained he did not accept a 25000$ settlement offer.

And in the meantime he is trying to insert himself in the political circus and grift off the pro-Trump side with his moronic Ungag Trump lawsuit thing and the fundraiser to "finance it".

Another lawtuber who turned into a lolcow.

 

[ChromaQuack]

"I didn't have $25,000 to give him."
Hopefully Joe has $117,000 now!

I sure hope nobody sends debt collectors after Joe!

 

[TherapyMan]

Then he's just an idiot. In the business he was in, he should have known the FDCPA.

Nobody accused Joe of being a good lawyer.

In the video above, Joe says "if [he] had a lawyer throughout this whole thing, this whole thing would have ended up costing [him] like a half million dollars."

Obviously an exaggeration unless he wanted to do a meritless appeal at every level and serve discovery on everyone and their mom. You're not going to spend $500K in fees getting a sub five-figure damage case with very uncomplicated facts and little necessary discovery to summary judgment. If Joe thinks he would have spend $500,000 to get the case to summary judgment, he's a massive retard, which I submit is entirely possible because he is.

When they have a moron determined to fight a routine claim all the way, they're going to try to rack up as many hours as possible, and they have an excuse to do so.

Not comparable. Joe was acting pro se for much of the case. Joe said he only retained counsel "in the last, like, year".

I'm not sure why you're arguing this point as you already said yourself the Plaintiff's counsel has every incentive to rack up fees, which was already the point of what I said.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that Joe through stupidity or inexperienced failed to understand that this lawsuit was gonna shake him down for fees, and he needed to get over the fact that $25,000 was the toll to prevent Plaintiff from draining him through the fees. I only say that this is a difficult conclusion for most people to come to because few people roll over and cough up $25K, however, no matter how wrong they are. By the time they realized how fucked they are, that $25,000 has become $50,000 and so on and so forth.

 

[TJBirish]

The observation has probably been made before but you've got to imagine that a good lawyer would be practising law not making videos on YouTube.

Why?

Are there not advantages to youtube?

 

[Balldo's Gate]

Obviously an exaggeration unless he wanted to do a meritless appeal at every level and serve discovery on everyone and their mom. You're not going to spend $500K in fees getting a sub five-figure damage case with very uncomplicated facts and little necessary discovery to summary judgment. If Joe thinks he would have spend $500,000 to get the case to summary judgment, he's a massive retard, which I submit is entirely possible because he is.

He says he spent $40,000 in the past year (technically, the attorney filed a notice of appearance in April 2023, so it's closer to 1.5 years). The case was filed in 2017.

He was representing himself before. If you go back to the discovery phase, and the depositions, it's him who's taking them, when he's being opposed he's objecting on his own behalf.

If he was paying an attorney for the whole way through, it's easy to imagine he would also be well over six figures as well.

But if he retained an attorney they probably would have told him not to fight it in every possible way like this.

I'm not sure why you're arguing this point as you already said yourself the Plaintiff's counsel has every incentive to rack up fees, which was already the point of what I said.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that Joe through stupidity or inexperienced failed to understand that this lawsuit was gonna shake him down for fees, and he needed to get over the fact that $25,000 was the toll to prevent Plaintiff from draining him through the fees. I only say that this is a difficult conclusion for most people to come to because few people roll over and cough up $25K, however, no matter how wrong they are. By the time they realized how fucked they are, that $25,000 has become $50,000 and so on and so forth.

My point is that not only did Joe not realize that the law gives the plaintiff very high bargaining power when negotiating a settlement at the start, he also increased the amount he had to pay by fighting everything.

He tried making defenses that obviously weren't going to work, like arguing that he wasn't a debt collector, or that he wasn't liable because even though the person who sent the letter was somebody who he authorized to send out letters in his name using form letters he created as a starting point and a stamp of his signature, he did not personally review each letter getting sent out.

Then the plaintiff's counsel had to respond to all that and he's the one who had to foot the bill.

 

[AnOminous]

In the video above, Joe says "if [he] had a lawyer throughout this whole thing, this whole thing would have ended up costing [him] like a half million dollars."

If he had a lawyer through the whole thing, the lawyer would have told him to suck up the $25K settlement, take the L, go forth and sin no more.

If Joe thinks he would have spend $500,000 to get the case to summary judgment, he's a massive retard, which I submit is entirely possible because he is.

That's some massive Retard Lawgic right there. This is why you don't represent yourself. You're not objective and you come to retarded conclusions like this. Apparently he's learned nothing since he doesn't even realize how retarded he was.

Also how the fuck do you operate as a debt collector for years while apparently being either completely unfamiliar with the FDCPA or thinking you can just endlessly get away with flouting it? Maybe he had tard luck for a few years.

 

[Gobermental Supervisor]

Also how the fuck do you operate as a debt collector for years while apparently being either completely unfamiliar with the FDCPA or thinking you can just endlessly get away with flouting it? Maybe he had tard luck for a few years.

This is the one thing I actually believe is the only true part of Joe's story.

That the case predates him at the company and it just got into the mix with other debts and was sent out.
Joe is a massive retard, his Trump filings actually prove his IQ is below room temperature, but even a trained monkey would know not to handle a out-of-state case like this.

Mistakes happen, that is ok and he could have handled that easily. Just pay the guy and take the L.
That is what you have insurance for ... oh wait, as we already established, Joe is a retard. Retards do not have insurance.