YABookgate

Thanks for the response, I'm not clued into any of this stuff so it's always nice to hear from someone who is.

That being said, Royal Road's userbase is notoriously "homophobic/transphobic/misogynistic." As in, they're almost all straight white (or Asian) male authors writing about straight white (or Asian) male main characters.
Have there been any controversies by the usual suspects?

Oddly enough, there are some romance writers who have decided to make a stand there.
That is odd because I was looking through their rules and all of the romance restrictions sounds like it's prohibitive to even try based on what modern jillers like to read.

And as a final note, there is a strange degree of hatred for stories with multiple points of view. People get really mad about it on the forums, it's kinda funny. My guess is that the actual autists who compose most of the userbase are easily confused by perspective changes.
That's hilarious. Are they confused by the concept of per capita and questions about breakfast too?
 
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99% garbage, 1% actually worth reading, just like most other websites where anyone can post written work. Of that 99% garbage, more than half is litRPG I'm sure. Power fantasies and stats autism abounds, to the point of "overpowered protagonist" and "numbers go up" being an advertising points writers use. You'll find a lot of writers who probably have genuine autism using stats boxes and numbers going up or down as crutches so they don't have to write actual characters with actual motivations or personalities. LitRPG is a cholera outbreak and Royal Road is one of the contaminated wells that's spreading it. The isekai scene isn't much better, but at least some isekai writers try to make actual characters instead of cardboard cut-outs making number go up. There's also a thriving xianxia/wuxia/cultivator scene but I've never checked it out.

That being said, Royal Road's userbase is notoriously "homophobic/transphobic/misogynistic." As in, they're almost all straight white (or Asian) male authors writing about straight white (or Asian) male main characters. There's also an anime girl main character niche that attracts a solid reader base, who will get mad if the work's cover art features an anime girl but isn't actually about an anime girl. And there's a small LGBT group who does their own thing, who have to tag their stories as LGBT otherwise they'll get drive-by one star ratings when normal users find out about the gay stuff (unless it's about anime girl lesbians, then it's okay!). Oddly enough, there are some romance writers who have decided to make a stand there. I'm not sure why, there's a substantial portion of the userbase who won't even read a story with romance, not even as a subplot. And as a final note, there is a strange degree of hatred for stories with multiple points of view. People get really mad about it on the forums, it's kinda funny. My guess is that the actual autists who compose most of the userbase are easily confused by perspective changes.

Source: I've spent too long trying to find actually good fiction on that site. I think I'm retarded because I haven't given up yet.
this is so beautifully autistic

wonder how many forumites on there are like, pajeets or sth.
 
Have there been any controversies by the usual suspects?
Not that I'm aware of. You can often find someone on the forums trying to correcT the record about the usual tripe, but they get a surprising amount of pushback (that is to say, statements like "I don't quite agree with you" instead of bending the knee to the current year progressive idols). I get the feeling the userbase of Royal Road leans more right than any single user is willing to admit for fearing of being deplatformed.
That is odd because I was looking through their rules and all of the romance restrictions sounds like it's prohibitive to even try based on what modern jillers like to read.
I really don't know what audience they're trying to chase. Most Royal Road users seem to be the kinds of people who get off on power fantasies instead of porn.
That's hilarious. Are they confused by the concept of per capita and questions about breakfast too?
I wouldn't be surprised. Combine autism with the reading level of your average zoomer or even alphoid... it's grim. If these kids can't keep up with litRPGs and isekais with two different perspectives, then they're gonna get fucked when they try to read a real book (:optimistic:, I know)

this is so beautifully autistic
Thank you, sperging out about it made me feel better. I've been frustrated with it lately.
 
Not that I'm aware of. You can often find someone on the forums trying to correcT the record about the usual tripe, but they get a surprising amount of pushback (that is to say, statements like "I don't quite agree with you" instead of bending the knee to the current year progressive idols). I get the feeling the userbase of Royal Road leans more right than any single user is willing to admit for fearing of being deplatformed.

I really don't know what audience they're trying to chase. Most Royal Road users seem to be the kinds of people who get off on power fantasies instead of porn.

I wouldn't be surprised. Combine autism with the reading level of your average zoomer or even alphoid... it's grim. If these kids can't keep up with litRPGs and isekais with two different perspectives, then they're gonna get fucked when they try to read a real book (:optimistic:, I know)


Thank you, sperging out about it made me feel better. I've been frustrated with it lately.
i think the thing is that sperging out about this in very heavily pozzed/retarded spaces will get every midwitted, overly-performative, suck up of a faggot/woman whining about something.

I'm so tired of hearing about how fucked literacy is. They don't even teach phonics now. They just hope kids pick up stuff or memorize words for testing. God.

Makes me wonder if bibliophiles are gonna fade away within a generation or two.
 
Not that I'm aware of. You can often find someone on the forums trying to correcT the record about the usual tripe, but they get a surprising amount of pushback (that is to say, statements like "I don't quite agree with you" instead of bending the knee to the current year progressive idols). I get the feeling the userbase of Royal Road leans more right than any single user is willing to admit for fearing of being deplatformed.
From reading the forum I get the impression that the authors lean left, or at the very least hold leftist value (black people good, trans woman are woman etc...) but at the end of the day it's still dominated by male authors writing stories for a male majority audience and the men on that site still knows what they're into. Hell judging from the dm fiasco we have recently they might even have less tranny chaser than kiwifarms.
Unfortunately if you're not into litrpg number autism the site is absolutely useless for both readers and authors.
 
What's the word on Royal Road? I've got a story I wrote back in 2021 for nanowrimo that I'm planning on continuing this year and I thought I'd post it online at some point to give myself some enthusiasm. It's not LitRPG or 'isekai', but an old fashioned, characters wake up in a strange place with no idea how they got there with weird world rules fantasy.
There are plenty of traditional fantasy stories there, you'd probably do fine. If you want to get attention it would probably help to dump a decent number of chapters (say 10-20) at a rapid clip at the start, like schedule posts once a day. The "meta" there for getting eyeballs seems to involve posting rapidly at the start and then switching to a more sustainable 2-4 chapters a week. Chapters also tend to be on the short side, like 2-4k words. Check out the current stories on "Rising Stars" to see what I mean. I have also heard rumors of Discord gay ops among authors to upvote their stories and downvote competitors, but I'm not sure how significant of an effect that has.

Power fantasies and stats autism abounds, to the point of "overpowered protagonist" and "numbers go up" being an advertising points writers use. You'll find a lot of writers who probably have genuine autism using stats boxes and numbers going up or down as crutches so they don't have to write actual characters with actual motivations or personalities.
To give a mild defense of the genre, people find it satisfying to see tangible progress, for the same reason people like leveling up in video games. It also originated out of the xianxia/wuxia roots of the site, where cultivators would have different "levels" basically with weird names. This can be a crutch for bad authors and definitely attracts autists, but it can also be amusing if it's done well. Here's one example of (in my opinion) good execution: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/92144/the-legend-of-william-oh

And there's a small LGBT group who does their own thing, who have to tag their stories as LGBT otherwise they'll get drive-by one star ratings when normal users find out about the gay stuff (unless it's about anime girl lesbians, then it's okay!).
Yes, and it's hilarious. I vaguely remember one story a while ago where the author decided to make the main character gay for his best friend with basically no foreshadowing, and the story cratered from ~4.5 stars to 3 practically overnight. The RR audience is definitely full of chuds, while the authors are more of a mixed bag. There's a clique of authors who took over r/ProgressionFantasy for example, and they added a year-round pride flag.

And as a final note, there is a strange degree of hatred for stories with multiple points of view. People get really mad about it on the forums, it's kinda funny. My guess is that the actual autists who compose most of the userbase are easily confused by perspective changes.
Honestly it's because most RR authors are amateurs, often with day jobs, and are trying to crank out 10k+ words per week. Trying to weave together multiple points of view in a coherent way, with minimal editing and a shortage of time for planning, is basically asking for disaster. In my opinion multiple POVs also isn't a great fit for a web serial format, where say if you have three POVs and update weekly, that means your audience is getting a chapter for each POV every three weeks. That makes it much harder to maintain reader attention.

For those who made it through my own autistic rambling, here are a few non-trash (in my opinion) examples of stories on RR:

Completed:

In progress:
 
Now that I think about it a little more, part of the reason litrpg is so dominant in royal road is because the most successful authors are writing the "neverending story". They have no intention of going for traditional publishing and instead opted to make money through patreon. And it's easier to string your already paying patreon along with 1000+ chapters making 10k a month rather than starting a new one. And there's only so much character development to be have, but you can make number go up forever.
 
I've had one foot in the Royal Road pool since 2018, where I was discussing it with publishers as a platform to consider as the vanguard for future trends when they were all looking at Wattpad. Not a single person I spoke to had heard of it back then, and so assumed I was a raving moron, which makes it amusing that Orbit is basically trying to compete with it six years later.

You know how Mr Beast is perhaps the first example of a Youtuber who is driven purely by the algorithm? Today, Royal Road is that but for writing. There are whole essays about how to maximize your Patreon income via your writing and almost anyone who is interested in Royal Road as a platform follows them religiously. People are even monetizing their fanfiction, which is a really bad idea, but Royal Road doesn't seem to consider it a risk.

While some more traditional stories exist on Royal Road, they're difficult to find, and Royal Road has never attempted to make them easier to find (which could differentiate them from other platforms such as Inkitt, Galatea, Webtoon, etc.) Royal Road's admin staff are captured by Discord cliques and, specifically, the high earning writers who drive most of the traffic to their site. Royal Road's operators have been wanting to monetize the platform for years, including cutting out Patreon, but have never managed to do it.

In order to get traction, you need "Discord gay ops" or to basically beg for a shout out from the writers at the top of the pyramid. There is no quality control, no editor's picks, and no way to filter out genres you're not interested in. The review highlight system was neutered when an opposing clique learned how to game it and frustrated the admins whose favorites weren't prospering. AI cover art is common place and increasingly so are AI blurbs and synopses. Royal Road recently partnered with some publishers, claiming to want to represent the undiscovered pearls of the site, and it was just the big follower count writers. Royal Road also neglected to mention initially they were getting a financial return from that agreement. There are a few business relationships going on behind the scenes that Royal Road, those writers, and others simply do not disclose despite the ethical issues involved because it would make it dramatically clear that organic growth has long since been done away with.

Like I said, it's a bubble, and sooner or later the people pumping money into Podium and others are going to realize that paying a $50,000 advance for an unfinished slice of life LitRPG series from an amateur with no credits to their name isn't going to earn back. Checking that one out on Amazon, it didn't even hit 100 reviews in over a year. That's not great given that it has over 4,000 followers on the site. There's more I want to say but I'd be risking PL.
 
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Why do YA stories always veer towards fantasy and mythology rather than sci-fi unless it involves a dystopia or is heavily based around superpowers? It would be so nice for a YA novel to just have lots of cool gadgets and tech and take place in space or on another planet, but that doesn't happen most of the time.
Nicholas Fisk wrote some good hard sci-fi back in the 80s but I don't know if they count as YA or kid's books.

 
i think the thing is that sperging out about this in very heavily pozzed/retarded spaces will get every midwitted, overly-performative, suck up of a faggot/woman whining about something.

I'm so tired of hearing about how fucked literacy is. They don't even teach phonics now. They just hope kids pick up stuff or memorize words for testing. God.

Makes me wonder if bibliophiles are gonna fade away within a generation or two.

Basically, Americans have been taught how to read wrong for multiple generations now: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading

Goldberg realized lots of her students couldn't actually read the words in their books; instead, they were memorizing sentence patterns and using the pictures to guess. One little boy exclaimed, "I can read this book with my eyes shut!"

"Oh no," Goldberg thought. "That is not reading."
 
Basically, Americans have been taught how to read wrong for multiple generations now: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading
I thank God every day for being born a hyperlexic, and that I had parents and grandparents who would read to me even after I long memorized the book in their hands. I also remember phonics being taught to me in elementary school (Mom hoarded my assignments and shit from that time, so I saved some of those phonics booklets from first grade for future use), though I think most of that might've been through a JumpStart game or some other computer activity center I would play the shit out of.

It's one of many reasons I hope and pray my firstborn should also be hyperlexic because I otherwise have no idea how to approach it besides from what I remember lol.
 
Basically, Americans have been taught how to read wrong for multiple generations now: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading
I’m pretty sure the reason I became a good reader is because my mom taught me my letters when I was 3, and helped me sound them out. She or my dad read to me every night as a baby/toddler, and after teaching me to print capital letters, my grandfather would send me carefully printed letters in all caps that my mom would help me sound out and read.

By the time I started Kindergarten I was bored stiff once I learned lower case letters, and got scolded for reading ahead in work books.
 
I’m pretty sure the reason I became a good reader is because my mom taught me my letters when I was 3, and helped me sound them out.
I was taught sign language, so by the time I was 2 I knew how to spell. I also read tons of books (like keeping my mom up until midnight reading to me every night), so by the time I was 4 I was tested for reading at the university level.
By the time I started Kindergarten I was bored stiff once I learned lower case letters, and got scolded for reading ahead in work books.
Are you me? I got banned from the library in 1st grade because I was bored to tears with my grade level's books and wanted to read books from more advanced levels. I also got in lots of trouble for working ahead and asking for more work and more engaging work.
 
There are plenty of traditional fantasy stories there, you'd probably do fine. If you want to get attention it would probably help to dump a decent number of chapters (say 10-20) at a rapid clip at the start, like schedule posts once a day. The "meta" there for getting eyeballs seems to involve posting rapidly at the start and then switching to a more sustainable 2-4 chapters a week. Chapters also tend to be on the short side, like 2-4k words. Check out the current stories on "Rising Stars" to see what I mean. I have also heard rumors of Discord gay ops among authors to upvote their stories and downvote competitors, but I'm not sure how significant of an effect that has.
Yeah I was going through videos on youtube and that's what they all said as well.
 
Yeah I was going through videos on youtube and that's what they all said as well.
This meta is actually not exclusive to Royal Road, but basically every web novel platforms used the same meta. It's influenced a lot by how the web novel platforms in Asia works, especially in East Asia like China or Japan. This is where Royal Road are most influenced by, though I'm guessing a lot of people there are also South East Asians as well, instead of the South Asians like the pajeets.

This meta basically forced you to work almost full time with your stories, and also influenced why almost every popular stories in platforms such as this to be a "neverending stories" where each chapters are either padded or their plot points stretched out so much. Most if not all Isekai stories has the same problems because they too are born out of the web novel ecosystem (Narou-kei), hence why they're often sucks because they were never made to tell a complete story in the first place, but a story that is supposed to stand out and last long enough for their author to cash in via publishing deals. This is why there was an anonymous story about Japanese editors having to basically rewrite tons of their authors' work because they just can't do it, some even entirely rewriting it from scratch.
 
I thank God every day for being born a hyperlexic, and that I had parents and grandparents who would read to me even after I long memorized the book in their hands. I also remember phonics being taught to me in elementary school (Mom hoarded my assignments and shit from that time, so I saved some of those phonics booklets from first grade for future use), though I think most of that might've been through a JumpStart game or some other computer activity center I would play the shit out of.

It's one of many reasons I hope and pray my firstborn should also be hyperlexic because I otherwise have no idea how to approach it besides from what I remember lol.

My dad had a good system. Took us to the library every month and made us pick at least 5 books and only one could be a comic. On the weekends we weren't allowed to get up until our parents were up and had to read if we got up before them. I actually started reading Bloom County when I was in middle school because I liked Bill D Cat and Opus and used to have my parents explain jokes and references to me. It's find of funny watching Trump now because I remember his character so vividly from the comic.

I really do worry about the future generations because I think I'd be a much dumber person if I had grown up with a sail fawn and brainrot like TikTok.

Basically, Americans have been taught how to read wrong for multiple generations now: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading

I went to a school district that taught with phonics so it was a shock when I started working at a school and discovered the MSV method being taught to remedial reading students. Being able to construct and breakdown words is one of the major advantages to English but you're just going to teach rote memorization as if it were a logographic like Chinese. You see a lot of brute force teaching like that in common core. Not focusing on teaching the fundamentals but rather "tips and tricks" so kids can come up with the answer but have no idea how they came up with the answer.
 
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This is why there was an anonymous story about Japanese editors having to basically rewrite tons of their authors' work because they just can't do it, some even entirely rewriting it from scratch.
This is real. When Webtoon launched Yonder, their attempt at bringing this model to the West, a part of their process involved hiring rooms of "editors" who had free rein to rewrite and alter the stories put before them. This led to some of their biggest purchases never getting released in full. Wonderful business sense, eh? You pay five or six figures for someone's badly written story, then pay more money to multiple people to get them to basically rewrite it, and then somehow count on making all of that back through pay-to-unlock chapter-by-chapter micro-transactions.

Yonder was so successful for Webtoon and Naver that rumor is everyone working on it was basically folded back into Webtoon proper within a few months of launch. It would explain why some stories abruptly stopped updating. It also may explain why in their IPO document, designed to get people to invest in Webtoon, they didn't mention Yonder once despite it being only launched in 2022 and being their big play in the Western online writing market. The contracts people signed to put their work on Yonder were apparently ghastly with very strict NDAs with the penalties for breaching the NDA being quite punitive to the extent that no one has yet been able to get their hands on one to see what they were demanding and offering.
 
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This led to some of their biggest purchases never getting released in full. Wonderful business sense, eh? You pay five or six figures for someone's badly written story, then pay more money to multiple people to get them to basically rewrite it, and then somehow count on making all of that back through pay-to-unlock chapter-by-chapter micro-transactions.
Western audiences also basically revolted over the whole pay per partial chapter microtransaction model. One example I recall from Naver's launch was the Practical Guide to Evil, a pretty decent YA-ish web serial where people were not happy about the prospect of having to pay $475 in microtransactions to read the edited versions of the seven books. And for any series like that which had a popular free release prior to getting put behind the Naver paywall, there are going to be plenty of bootleg epubs and other versions floating around for anyone who knows where to look. The unedited version is even still up on the author's website, although it might have been restored after Yonder collapsed. People can mentally justify paying $5 a month on Patreon as "supporting a struggling author" but having to pay almost $500 is insane, even a set of premium hardcovers would cost less than half of that.
 
Western audiences also basically revolted over the whole pay per partial chapter microtransaction model. One example I recall from Naver's launch was the Practical Guide to Evil, a pretty decent YA-ish web serial where people were not happy about the prospect of having to pay $475 in microtransactions to read the edited versions of the seven books.
What an interesting example.
  • The Yonder release is something even the author downplays as part of a "larger deal", a necessary evil... that was never detailed.
  • The author claims to have asked for permission to detail it but was denied without saying they were denied.
  • It appears that a part of this deal was the promise of a Webtoon webcomic that, two years on, has not eventuated anything (not even a teaser or preview.)
  • Author's statements seem to indicate they only maintained their rights to produce hard copies, and the deal was made on their behalf.
  • Audiobook rights possibly being on-sold by Yonder to another publisher (eight months ago, no news or release yet)
  • The audiobook is using the Yonder version... which never released past the first book in the series (of, apparently, seven.)
  • The Yonder version contains considerable changes (which can remain the property of the editing company, depending on the contract...)
  • Virtually unanimous condemnation of this deal from their own readers who were begging to pay the author for an edited release directly.
  • Author claiming the regional unavailability issue with Yonder would be fixed (it is still not available in most of the EU.)
  • Author claiming that their readers would get enough free coins to read the first book, when 500 was not enough to do so. Did they know anything about the platform or what they signed?
  • The author's Wordpress blog was to be taken down shortly after the initial announcement, and it appears that this was part of the deal (and this aligns with what I have heard of Yonder's demands.) It looks like it never went down, so, that is curious.
Here's some food for thought for those of you at home. When your readers are willing to pay you that much money directly, why would you let some South Korean company take a cut? When someone makes you sign a deal but says you can't talk about it with your fans, is that a good deal? If someone asks you to give them your story for their platform and to take down your website, do you think they're negotiating in good faith? If you retain the rights to produce hard copies, did you also retain the rights to distribute and sell them?

Hope they got an absolutely stellar payout, sheesh, because I get the impression Naver took everything from this person while saying, "Yeah, whatever, you can still make some hard copies for your friends." These companies exist to snap up intellectual properties in the hopes they strike gold. Examples of contracts from similar platforms contain absolutely draconian terms. I'm wondering if there were any termination or reversion clauses in whatever they signed.
 
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